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| | Frank B Kermit's profile:Frank B Kermit has his own ADVICE SITES.
Check out:
www.frankadvice-franktalks.com
www.frankadviceformen.com
www.frankadviceforwomen.com
www.frankadviceforyou.com (LGBF and BDSM)
Frank B. Kermit (age 34) is a relationship guru. He was the FIRST seduction guru to focus primarily on RELATIONSHIP MANAGEMENT. There are dozens of qualified teachers on the topic of how to “pick up” women. But once you have picked her up, it’s Frank B Kermit that teaches you how to keep her around, and seduce her everyday for the rest of your lives together. He teaches men how to address a woman’s EMOTIONAL NEEDS. His teaching and philosophies are about Relationship Building and Maintenance and Living the Seduction Lifestyle.
He published his own autobiography revealing how terrible with women he actually was, which is uncommon among seduction community members. In From Loser to Seducer: The Story of Frank B Kermit, you can read about Frank’s horrible pain, what he went through in his change, and his final redemption as a seducer-in-training.
From Loser to Seducer: The Story of Frank B Kermit
http://www.lulu.com/content/375990
is one of the most INSPIRATIONAL stories for men ever produced. He was stood up at his prom. He lost his fiancé (betrayed) by one of his best friends. Then he had his heart snapped one last time when the woman he had spent two years hanging out with, surprised him one day saying she had the desire to get married...to someone else. That was the final straw that spun into a life altering course to seek out the truth about men, women and relationships. From Loser to Seducer contains his personal journey, his own original philosophies, and his greatest triumphs and most terrible defeats. This includes getting back the ex-fiancé (the one girl that "got away"), managing a harem of five lovers at the same time, his first polydate on Valentines Day and more. He also shares the unexpected pain of the successful seducer lifestyle that most seduction-enthusiasts often sweep under the carpet. He's Frank, because he has to be.
Everything Out Of Her Mouth Is A Test: A Man's Guide To The Emotional Needs of Women is Frank's seduction philosophy book.
http://www.lulu.com/content/462134
He wanted to know how the same woman could have a wild hedionistic one night stand with a complete stranger, yet would make another man she is in a relationship with wait months before sex. Now, he knows. The Frank B Kermit Philosophy on Men, Women and Relationships comes down to one statement: Everything Out of Her Mouth is a Test. A “TEST” is when a woman says or does something, specifically to evoke a reaction out of a man. It is a mechanism that a woman uses to judge his overall value as a man. It is the predictor and basis for all sexual attraction and love she will have for a man. A woman can only fit into 1 of 2 roles in any man’s life; Mother or Lover. Within each test is an emotional need being communicated that MUST be addressed. A woman always tests because her instinct to mother is stronger than her instincts to have sex. From this original theory stems all of Frank B Kermit’s teachings.
I'M A Man, That's My Job: The Philosophy of a Seducer is a Complete Inner Game WorkBook to help boys learn to be men.
http://www.lulu.com/content/875062 (the 6 x 9 version)
http://www.lulu.com/content/875085 (the 8 1/2x11 version)
With over 50 writing exercises and field assignments, as well as charts to track a man's development from loser to seducer to being a natural with women. This workbook is to help each reader develop a PERSONALIZED inner game and the steps for the reader to create their own Seduction Persona; Frank B Kermit takes the reader on a journey sharing HIS OWN personal inner game history. This book includes various charts so that the seducer-in-training can track his own development, and know what he did wrong, what he did right, and exactly what he must do next. Your new level of existence begins NOW!
Frank issued a book Entitled The Emotional Needs Analysis Workbook Volume 1: For Men That Love Women. It is about teaching men to understand women emotional needs in REAL TIME, AS SHE IS TALKING. You can find it at http://www.lulu.com/content/1585762. This book comes with a 50$ coupon for a Frank one on one
Frank issued a book entitled FRANK ADVICE: For The Art of Relationship Management, Volume 1. If you like the advice you read here on Dear Cupid, now you can get 100 of Frank's best Q&As.http://www.lulu.com/content/1529496 is for the paperback, but you can get the ebook version for free IF you buy one of his other books. It comes with a 100$ coupon towards a Frank one on one.
Frank is now an advice columnist for the Swinger Publications The Oyster Magazine www.oystermagazine.com and Tryst Magazine. He is also an advice columnist for the gay/Bi/Lesbian/fetish magazine Tab Magazine. Check em out.
Frank has now published his Masters Thesis: Character Creation and Law; A Guide to Creating Characters in the USA and Canada. It has nothing to do with seduction, but it is an interesting read, and comes with a 100$ coupon towards a Frank one on one.
Frank B Kermit is a Producer, Host Advice Columnist and Author. He produces an internet radio program entitled Frank Talks: Pleasures and Lifestyles.
To download FREE interviews that Frank conducts check out his newest radio site: www.FBKradio.com
He offers his services on his site as an Advice Columnist giving Frank Advice for Non-monogamists Relationships. Also he has written a number of books and give seminars that include An Adult Male Virgins Seminar, Alternative Lifestyles, Addressing the Emotional Needs of Women, Getting a man to commit by teaching women about the emotional needs of men, Calibration Storytelling, How to decorate a bachelor pad, and Fashion Tips for Peacocking and Symbology.
Frank B Kermit has his own ADVICE SITES.
Check out:
www.frankadvice-franktalks.com
www.frankadviceformen.com
www.frankadviceforwomen.com
www.frankadviceforyou.com (LGBF and BDSM)
Frank B Kermit currently resides in Toronto with his wife Jade of www.jadecreations.ca and conducts Weekly Lectures, seminars and one-on-one consultants for men interested in bettering their communication skills, and relationship management skills, with women. He can be reached through his website WWW.FRANKTALKS.COMwww: www.franktalks.com |
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She has a boyfriend but opens up to me about everything! How can I show her how much I love her?
Q. I've been talking to a girl EVERY DAY for the past 5 months or so. Most of the calls came from her, and we talk for hours. We never went a day without talking. About 2.5 months ago, I admitted to her that I was in love with her (wrote a long le...
A. 27 July 2008: I did a lecture on exactly this topic called: From Friends To Lovers: Stop Being Her Emotional Cookie Man.
You are currently in the category of her brain that makes her see you as a friend. She will never date you until you change that.
... (read in full...)
I'm interested in group sex, any advice?
Q. i am interested in group sex but i would like to know about the advantages and disadvantages of group sex and how can i enjoy more with different type of sex. my some friends and their wives are also interested to join in group sex with me and my ...
A. 25 July 2008: Two books:
The Lifestyle by Terry Gould
Swinging A Societal Phenomena by Jean Hamel
Documentary:
Swinging in America
Free downloadable interviews
on my website http://www.FBKradio.com
with a variety of swingers, authors and sex experts wh... (read in full...)
Is it my fault that he hit me, or do I just keep getting with jerks?
Q. My past boyfriends have been abusive towards me and before I got with the guy I'm with now I told him that I was afraid to get hurt again and he promised me that he wouldn't ever hurt me. Well we've been together for 8 months now and he's hit me at ...
A. 21 July 2008: You are not responsible for who is attracted to you.
You are not responsible for who you are attracted to.
But you ARE responsible for who you CHOOSE TO DATE.
And you are fully responsible for STAYING with an abusive man after he hits you.
... (read in full...)
What is this feeling my ex is talking about?
Q. My ex girlfriend and me are still very close, in fact, we are best friends and prob will be for life, but she has something happen to her thats a little weird. Every time i say something sweet to her now, like ill always be there for you or you look...
A. 20 July 2008: You're friendship with her is hurting you both, and just so you know...at some point one of you is going to get serious with someone else, and that close friendship of yours will be a threat to any new relationship either one of you tries to build ... (read in full...)
How can I get an orgasm?
Q. I'm 24 years old and have never had an orgasm. I've been close but never made it there. What are somethings I can try to get one. Toys don't work...
A. 20 July 2008: Hi There,
An associate of mine has a website that teaches men and women to help women experience orgasms. This is not any sort of porn, but a demonstration video set on the topic. Good for couples.
http://www.se... (read in full...)
She is only 15, too young to date with me?
Q. Me and my best friend have had feelings for each other for a long time. Now me, im very respectful when it comes to the ladies. I understand that if someone is too young for sex, then thats the way it is and im fine with that. There is a 4 year age ...
A. 20 July 2008: First of all, in the USA what you are wanting to do (date and get sexual...) is illegal for your age group.
Next, you are OK with waiting another 5 years or so for sex? Are there religious reasons at play here? If not, I find it odd that a m... (read in full...)
He told me to leave him alone and stay away. I haven't heard a word for a week. Should I wait?
Q. don't know what to do here. the man i've been sleeping with for four years jusy recently cursed me out like a dog for coming down to his told me to leave him alone and to stay away from him. i in turn sent him a letter saying i was sorry for making ...
A. 20 July 2008: Well it depends on what you did. If you did something really bad, chances are he is serious and does not want to see you again. If he is just angry, give him his space.
-Frank B Kermit
www.frankadviceforwomen.com
... (read in full...)
Help! I don't want to marry my fiance - should we break up for good?
Q. Ok so here goes....my boyfriend and I have been together for over two years. I'm 29 and he's 33. We've both been married before (me for 1 yr, him for 7 yrs) in love-less marriages. I have huge doubts about our relationship and I broke off our en...
A. 19 July 2008: Never get married when you already have doubts. If you can not make it work in a marriage-less relationship, getting married will NOT make anything workout.
Maintain a good relationship with him for the sake of your child and make sure the chil... (read in full...)
Is getting seductive texts from an ex considered cheating?
Q. Does it mean a current boyfriend is cheating if he gets seductive text messages from an ex.... He claims he's not cheating.....this was just something stupid that happened.... I need help with this one....I trust him!!!!...
A. 19 July 2008: No, it is not considered cheating, however if he
1-does not tell you about it
or
2-does not tell the ex to stop
it is considered DISRESPECTFUL to your relationship.
Are you in an exclusive relationship, or are you both open to dating othe... (read in full...)
It seemed like he was keen on seeing me again so should I find out his number and contact him?
Q. Hi there, I met an awesome guy at a party last night and I'm just looking for a bit of advice on what I should do next. At the party we chatted for a bit and then he walked me home when I'd had a little (a lot, oops) too much to drink. It was a ...
A. 19 July 2008: Get his phone number from a mutual friend and call him. Invite him out to a public place for a coffee and cake as a thank you for his being a gentleman. Take it from there.
-Frank B Kermit
www.frankadviceforwomen.com
... (read in full...)
Should I use his sweater as an excuse to contact him?
Q. hello everyone, i'm really in need for some help here. i made out with this guy at a party. it was great... and when we said goodbye he said "see you soon". i got his sweater and wanna use that as an excuse but don't know how tbh... any advice? ...
A. 19 July 2008: Get his phone number from a mutual friend on the premise to return his sweater. Once you call him, set a date and time to meet with him again at a public place like a coffee shop, and once you get him there, start talking.
-Frank B Kermit
... (read in full...)
Should I use his sweater as an excuse to contact him?
Q. hello everyone, i'm really in need for some help here. i made out with this guy at a party. it was great... and when we said goodbye he said "see you soon". i got his sweater and wanna use that as an excuse but don't know how tbh... any advice? ...
A. 19 July 2008: Get his phone number from a mutual friend on the premise to return his sweater. Once you call him, set a date and time to meet with him again at a public place like a coffee shop, and once you get him there, start talking.
-Frank B Kermit
... (read in full...)
My girlfriend wants to stop having sex and says other guys are hot. Is she going to break up with me?
Q. I think my girlfriend of 6 months ( were both 18) is going to breakup with me soon but she claims she doesnt want to. I dont know if this girl is a person who is good for me. I feel like I love her and she claims the same about me but she just makes ...
A. 19 July 2008: No doubt about it. She wants the relationship to end, but she want YOU to take the responsibility of ending it, so she is doing things to push you away.
Why would you stay in such an emotionally abusive relationship like this? Love is not enou... (read in full...)
Should I tell my family I'm bisexual?
Q. Hey Guys, Basically Im 16 and Ive recently discovered im bisexual. Im Not out yet, except to a few close friends. I really want to tell my family, and get the whole thing off my chest, but almost my whole family are homophobic. I have a gay cousin w...
A. 19 July 2008: My advice is NOT to out yourself until such a time as you are completely independent of your family to support yourself. Until then, keep it quiet.
-Frank B Kermit
www.FBKradio.com... (read in full...)
My boyfriend lied about his grades to get into college. Now he has to prove the grades, so do you think I could edit mine to put his name on them?
Q. My boyfriend lied about his grades on his college application form as he knew he would not get in without them. He had his interview today and they have agreed to let him in aslong as he proves what grades he got.. The grades he used are pretty ...
A. 17 July 2008: What you are thinking of doing is fraud and is illegal. YOU could suffer more than he, because he could claim it was your idea and that he did not know what you were planning. He should take make up courses and get better grades on his own.
Be sm... (read in full...)
Why did he go back to his ex when everything was great?
Q. I met this guy in May, we dated for a little and then became exclusive. Everything was great! We had so much in common and he was continuously telling me he hasn't felt this way in a long time and that he couldn't get enough of me. He would text ...
A. 17 July 2008: You asked: I really don't think he wanted to go back to his ex..but why do they?
All people (men and women) repeat behavior patterns, even if it is not in their best interests. This is why habits are hard to break, and people go back to rela... (read in full...)
I'm in love with my best friend and she tells me her sorrows. The pain just pierces my heart. I can't stand it any longer.
Q. I'm in love with my best friend.she's dating someone else which really hurts me. But now her boyfriend went to another country, she told me about her sorrows which actually hurts me too. Now she's single and i don't wanna talk to her and meet her. ...
A. 17 July 2008: Stop listening to her problems. You are becoming her therapist, and she can not develop romantic feelings for you.
If you want to make her have the chance at having feelings for you, you need to make her feel like a lover, not a mother. ... (read in full...)
What things should I know about relationships so I can keep this great girl?
Q. Im with this girl who im very attracted to mentally and physically. shes 17 shes smart and has a voice older for her age. we are bascially taking it slow. and its almost perfect bc like she said, i dont have to prove anything when im with you. like ...
A. 15 July 2008: Identify what her particular emotional needs are, and continue to address them. Protecting her reputation, cater to the little girl in her, address any fear of abandonment, handle whatever her sexuality is, be honest with her even if it would upset ... (read in full...)
He is asking me to marry him but his age is an imposing hinderance to me...
Q. Iam 24 years of age. i have recently met a 42 year old man who is very kind, loving and considerate in evry possible way. However, the age difference between us makes me fear to commit to him. he is asking me to marry him but his age is an imposing ...
A. 15 July 2008: As long as you are both of legal age, and that the relationship would be based on mutual affection and respect, and not to fill some emotionally dysfunctional void on either of your parts, why not just go out with him?
I just completed a lecture ... (read in full...)
Just how risky is the 'pull out' method?
Q. Hi, My partner and I have sex all the time without using protection. I am waiting for my next period to get an implamon though (maybe). I'm also more then aware of the invention of condoms so this is not the advice I am looking for. What I ...
A. 15 July 2008: There is a word to describe couples that use the pull out method.
The word is "parents".
-Frank B Kermit
www.franktalks.com... (read in full...)
I like a man 14 years my senior - what should I do? I can't keep my mind off him.
Q. In my job I have met a lot of people. I first met "tony", the manager of a different department, when I was cleaning. He struck me as odd and quirky but I was not attracted to him. I thought he was good looking, but nothing more. Then one day I just ...
A. 14 July 2008: As long as you are both of legal age, and that the relationship would be based on mutual affection and respect, and not to fill some emotionally dysfunctional void on either of your parts, why not just go out with him?
I just completed a lecture ... (read in full...)
My boss informed me that a passenger complained about my body odour! I feel this was over the top!
Q. hello, today at work i was pissed of quite a bit as my boss said that a passenger (i work in airport security) had complained about my body odour. now i have clean clothes and a shower before work every day and wear deodourant, no-one has even made ...
A. 4 July 2008: The team leader was doing harassment on you. No question.
I once was in charge of a guy that had bad body odor in an office environment. One day, I took him aside in an area that no one could hear or see us, and I politely but firmly told him... (read in full...)
What responsibility do you have to someone cheating on their husband?
Q. This question is theoretical... You have a very good friend, who is married, and she is cheating on her husband with another man. At a party, the lover makes a full out pass at you (because he figures all this woman's friends cheat too...)....
A. 1 July 2008: Ok, the first things I am going to ask you is this: If it was your partner/lover (regardless of affair) that made a pass to one of your girlfriends, would you want to be told?
If yes, then tell her. If not, then do not tell her. It really i... (read in full...)
SITE NEWS: Over 600,000 visitors last month!
Q. Just a quickie We broke the 600,000 unique users/month (i.e. people!) last month. According to google analytics we had 638,310 visitors from June 1st to June 30th. Doesn't seem that long ago we passed the half a million mark. Thanks to all t...
A. 1 July 2008: Andrew, you truly have made the world a better place with the structure of this site. Congrats and Thank You.
-Frank... (read in full...)
I don't know what to do? I am not ready to be a father, I need your guidance.
Q. Need advice, I recieved an email from a girl I slept with about 6 weeks ago, saying she is now pregant, wants to keep the baby and wants nothing from me and is willing to cut off all commuication. I don't know what to do? I am not ready to be a fa...
A. 27 June 2008: Here is what I suggest,
Say NOTHING until you have the child DNA tested. There is a chance that it might not be yours.
In the meanwhile, check with a lawyer to know what your rights and obligations are in your territory. For example, if you ... (read in full...)
Group sex may be fun, but at the same time, I feel it's cheating.
Q. my boyfriend and i have a great sex life (when we find time lol) well we are planning a camping trip with another couple (who are married) for next weekend. my boyfriend mentioned to me that they may ask us to join them for group sex, because they...
A. 27 June 2008: If you want to try it, then try it, but if you are too hesitant, then do not even go on the camping trip at all. You know they are going to ask, and if you are not interested, do not put yourself in a situation where you might be uncomfortable. ... (read in full...)
I'm not attracted to either gender. Is something wrong with me?
Q. hi, well here it is plain and simple. I am not attracted to girls or guys. i am disgusted when it comes to sexual relationships and things like that. i find the human body, of both males and females, to be beautiful, but i am in no way attracted to ...
A. 26 June 2008: Yes, there are others like you. They are called asexual.
There is an entire community online for asexuals to learn about asexuality. This site is led by a guy named David Jay.
I did an interview with him and you can listen/download it for free ... (read in full...)
How do you get over the love of your life?
Q. Straight out. How do you get over the love of your life....
A. 25 June 2008: Read the book "We" by Robert Johnson. It will help you figure out if what you have was based on Romantic Love or not, and gives you what you need to get over her IF it is based on Romantic Love (not the same as real love).
Start there. If you d... (read in full...)
It's been over a year since I found a tape of my boyfriend and his ex having sex! How do I get over it?
Q. About one year ago, i found a tape of my boyfriend and his ex having sex. I threw it away and he rerecorded it over one of my tapes. I still can't get over it but he tells me that we need to move on. It's been over a year since it happened. It still ...
A. 23 June 2008: You Said: "He continually lied to me about having it"
Ok, so from what I gather, it isn't that he cheated on you (correct me if I am wrong about cheating), the issue is trust in that he lied to you about having it. If you knew the truth would yo... (read in full...)
Why is it men run when things get serious?
Q. Hi. need some someones perspective on this please. i'm left feeling very down and confused. Why is it that men run when things get serious? and this guy is 40! I been online dating for a while now as i don't get much time to myself and my friends ...
A. 22 June 2008: It really sounds like his own issue. Sounds like he is refusing growing up and using creative avoidance to get in his own way.
At the same time, you must consider too that when a man gets seriously involved with a woman, he is risking quite a ... (read in full...)
After my husband cheated I don't believe men are nice... can I really trust someone?
Q. Since my husband cheated me, I am unable to trust any other men. I see all men in the same eye.Everyone is same. They all are shits! But I want to live a happy life. How can I see others in a different way? Or are there anyone who is good? Can I get ...
A. 19 June 2008: You have been hurt and that is not fair.
However, how would you advise the man who married a woman only to learn that she was unfaithful to him?
If he now believed that all women cheated, and that he could not love another woman, and that ... (read in full...)
Should I go against myself and be a FWB, and enjoy myself with him and be heartbroken if he finds true love elsewhere, or do I cut my losses and run?
Q. I'm 32 and recently began chatting online to a really great 37 year guy. We got on really well, and after about a month, we met up. And got on really really well. I stayed at his and we had a great weekend together. (yes we slept togethe...
A. 17 June 2008: In all honestly, I think you need to be listening to your biological clock. You are 32 and if you have interests in having your own family, you really don't have that much time left in terms of having children in a healthy risk free manner. The ... (read in full...)
Do you think it's okay for a 19 year old to party till late or travel to a different city with friends?
Q. I would like to know your opininon for the following question 1) Do you think its okay for a 19 year old to party out with her friends until late in the night (say about 3 am) 2) Does she have the right to plan a trip with her friends to a dif...
A. 17 June 2008: If the 19 year old in question is living independently and is already responsible for herself in all other respects, then yes.
Otherwise, it is a sign that she is not the best judge of character (if she can not take care of herself, it is doubtful... (read in full...)
Do people who fall in love quickly also fall out of love quickly??
Q. My g\f has dumped me. At the beginning of our one year relationship she was all over me, almost clingy and more or less in love with me straight away. Now after a few weeks of arguing she has dumped me and just gone cold, just like that. I can't ...
A. 16 June 2008: There is a difference between Romantic Love (instant/infatuation/passionate/temporary) and Real Love (Long Lasting/Realistic). A good book to read to understand the difference so that you never let this happen to you again is
"We" by Robert John... (read in full...)
I'm above my fiance financially, he depends on his dad. Should I end this?
Q. Please tell me if there's anything wrong in this. I'm above my fiance financially, he doesn't have a regular income and somehow depends on his dad, who seldom helps him. We want to get married in seven months time. Do I cut off?...
A. 16 June 2008: It sounds to me that you are looking for a reason to break off with him, and using money as an excuse.
-Frank B Kermit
www.frankadviceforwomen.com... (read in full...)
How do I build up the spice in our marriage and allow my husband to keep his porn?
Q. okay i found out my hubby looks at porn occasionally which i don't mind really as long as it isn't excessive we have great sex and i know he loves me i mean i get a little jealous sometimes but i haven't talked to him about it yet i definitely want ...
A. 16 June 2008: Well, since you both enjoy porn, why not watch some together?
My guess is your jealousy is not rooted in him watching the porn, as much as, his paying attention to something other than you. You obviously feel very secure in your marriage not to m... (read in full...)
How do I deal with a superficial boyfriend?
Q. I have been dating a guy for about 3 months, and things were going pretty fabulously. We both use "Love", and we both talk about the possible future together. Then we were doing a "relationship status check", and he said his only issue with the ...
A. 13 June 2008: He says he is embarrassed by your appearance and wants a future with you? No. Start seeing other people now. This is the red flag. I wonder how controlling he is going to turn out to be when it gets more serious. Is he going to slight you every ... (read in full...)
Is it weird that I fancy transvestites?
Q. Is it weird that I fancy transvestites? I am a 19yo female in a loving realtionship but I keep fantasising about trannies and have started masterbating watching this porn.. Is this normal or just weird?...
A. 12 June 2008: Not weird, just different.
In fact, there are a number of trans-people that would love to meet you and be in relationships with you.
I did an interview with a trans-gendered person (Micheline Anne Montreiul) on my website www.fbkradio.com... (read in full...)
Would it be wrong to marry my fiancee and keep things as they are with my boyfriend?
Q. I am not sure what i am doing anymore. I am due to get married very soon, but although i love him in a way, i am having an affair with another man. To make it all worse, it has been going on on and off for 8 years, the other man is married, and ...
A. 12 June 2008: Yes, what you are doing is wrong. Do not get married. You boyfriend deserves better than you and deserves a better life than you could ever give him.
-Frank B Kermit
www.frankadviceforwomen.com
... (read in full...)
My wife wants me to watch her with another man! What do you think?
Q. my wife wants me to watch her with another man. It really turns me on, but I don't want to ruin things. What do you think?...
A. 12 June 2008: There is a book I am going to recommend to you to read before this happens. The title of it is "Sperm Wars" and it will explain WHY it would turn you on to watch.
Next, learn everything you can about swinger culture and polyamory before you do a... (read in full...)
It's been over a year since I found a tape of my boyfriend and his ex having sex! How do I get over it?
Q. About one year ago, i found a tape of my boyfriend and his ex having sex. I threw it away and he rerecorded it over one of my tapes. I still can't get over it but he tells me that we need to move on. It's been over a year since it happened. It still ...
A. 10 June 2008: Did he cheat on you, or was this before you two become a couple? If he cheated on you, this is a different story. If it was from before you guys met, then it really is none of your business, and you need to grow up.
I don't understand somethin... (read in full...)
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