A
female
age
36-40,
*ittletrouble
writes:Hello,My question is...is there any hope for a future with my ex-boyfriend?We dated for six months and he always suffered from retrograde jealousy for me. During this time I foolishly, casually mentioned my exes, not fully grasping what torture I was putting him through. I told him other difficult things from my past, too, including the time I was raped by a man I hardly knew a few months before we'd met. I am certain that he loves me. I have never dated a man who was more considerate, affectionate and giving of everything he had. He always tried to fix any problems I had, no matter how small they were or whether I could do it myself or not. He constantly told me how beautiful I was. I would often catch him staring at me across the room, in a sort of daze, and he would always fall asleep after I did because he wanted to watch me fall asleep in his arms. His pet name for me was Princess, which was appropriate because our relationship was like a fairy tale. He said that he would even die for me. It was like we filled all the cracks in each other that we never knew we had. Every aspect of our relationship was ideal---except his retrograde jealousy.When his RJ would get bad, he'd clam up, ruminating on his thoughts about my exes. Any mention of anything even slightly related to an ex could set off the jealousy. Sometimes just the mention of an object or place that I had mentioned along with a story about an ex would make him growl with emotion, even though I was now mentioning it for its own sake, for practical reasons, nothing about my ex at all. He wasn't abusive at all during these times, however. He never once put the blame on me or made me feel unlovable. He never insinuated that I was a "slut" like other RJ sufferers might do. It was as if he knew how unreasonable that would have been. Instead, the blame was usually put on the exes...how they "used" me...how they were such bad people. If he did ask me why I let them touch me, it would be more of a plea---trying to get information that would lessen his pain. But often our entire night would be ruined by his jealousy; even special nights like his birthday could turn sour in a second. It was an evil spell: once it came over him, he'd recede inside himself for hours. Nothing I could say or do could undo the spell until it wore off by itself. Once he even left my house because he couldn't deal with it. I watched him leave from my balcony and he looked up and saw me there. He came back, took me in his arms and asked me with so much pain in his voice, "Were you really going to let me go?"I am nearing thirty and divorced, but I have never felt such tender love from a man or had such compatibility with anyone before. Apart from the jealousy, we were so joyful together, almost like children. It is still hard to believe I had a man like that. He brought out the best in me and made me feel precious and brave, and he says I always made him feel like the strongest man in the world. But he would constantly tell me, "I can't get over your history with other men. It's killing me." And I could tell that it did take a toll on him because sometimes he would eat hardly anything and have trouble sleeping. Even though I moved back to my own country a couple of months ago, we communicated every day, even with all the time differences. We never went a day without texting, and most days we talked on the phone. He was so interested in every detail of my life, just like it had been when we lived ten minutes from each other. It hardly even felt like we were apart, except for the unavoidable longing.The only thing that changed, though, was how I questioned him about our future. I hadn't ever insisted on anything before because I knew that I would be leaving the country and was unsure of how I'd feel when I did. I had even casually asked him questions like, "who do you think you'll marry after I leave?" and teased him about women in his life who were attracted to him. He is in his late thirties, so in his culture it is expected that he will marry soon, and it is also not uncommon to have semi-arranged marriages. But two months after I moved, I needed hope that we wouldn't be separated forever. I wanted him to acknowledge that being together again was possible. I finally pushed the topic until he said, "I can't marry you. I love you, but this is why I said you are my pain. Because I want you but I can't have you. I would have to kill some men to have you...I can't get over your history."I got angry. We fought over the phone. He said, "We talked about this before. I said I couldn't get over your history. I know thinking about your past would kill me in the future. Have I ever said that I would marry you?" I said, "You're right, you didn't talk about it, but you never clearly told me there was no future, either. And I loved you and I knew how deeply you loved me and I couldn't believe that we would separate forever because of this. You were never jealous of your ex-girlfriend's histories and it's unfair to me." But he just said, "I wasn't jealous because I didn't love my ex-girlfriends," and "the men from your past stole my chance with you." I could tell by his voice that our argument hurt him, but because I learned that we have no future, I told him that I have to move on. He wasn't happy but told me to do what I needed. And he said he would always be around if I wanted to talk about our happy memories.So it has now been three days since I've contacted him. The first day he emailed me a simple, "Just tell me you're okay," and I responded, "I'm fine." But from now on I will not contact him even if he contacts me. The first couple of days were the hardest, but my body is slowly adjusting to being alone. When I remind myself that he didn't choose me, it is easier to release the pain. When I first argued with him, I'd assumed that maybe his retrograde jealousy was just a silly excuse he was using to defend himself against me wanting to marry him, or me accusing him that he used me and never had serious intentions. Our entire relationship, actually, I had never understood the seriousness of his RJ. Every time his jealousy flared up, I just dealt with it patiently and tried to move on. I also assumed that his possessiveness might have to do with the fact that he lost both of his parents before he was a teenager. But the more I read about retrograde jealousy, especially from questions posted by other people here, I realize that it could very well be his greatest obstacle and may be a legitimate reason for him not wanting a future with me. I can imagine how his version of the future could look different than mine...I see pure bliss with my greatest love, but he sees his bliss ruined by never-ending nightmares featuring the men of my past. Maybe he fears that one day I might leave him, too. It's a risk for him. He has told me before, "I hate thinking about your past because I think of the men in your life who were here, and now they're not, and I think that maybe I'll be like them one day."Well...it kind of looks like that's happening anyway...I would be grateful for any advice, especially from retrograde jealousy sufferers. Do you think that I should wait at the sidelines...maybe a month...before I contact him? Would anything I do now, such as proving that I'm trustable and loyal to him, be able to affect the outcome? Or should I just move on?
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (26 September 2017):
 Thanks for the update, it is nice to know that if nothing else the thoughts and ideas we put out there gave you food for thought.
You mention that he would go "crazy" if you go no contact. How so? I mean he has told you straight up that you no longer qualify as a potential partner, so WHY should you keep him in your life? Why would he keep YOU in his? My worry with "letting" him have contact/access to you is that he will not want YOU to move on.
If you don't feel comfortable with wishing well and then blocking/deleting him - I would start to take FOREVER in replying or give very short uninterested answers. He might decide to block you instead or at the least leave you be.
Good luck
A
female
reader, littletrouble +, writes (26 September 2017):
littletrouble is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks to all of you...You're very right and are speaking exactly what my intuition already knows... it's just always hard to give it a nudge so that it acts on it. You've helped me a lot.I'm still thinking about him, of course, but in a detached kind of way, as if our story was a romantic movie or something. That way I can have the warmth that I felt with him without the reality. And because of reading these messages, it does take me out of my emotions so that I can look at it more objectively.I wouldn't necessarily agree that he was ever abusive. It almost seems like he's abusing himself with these thoughts more than he ever abused me. But it's right that it will have to be him to change. And that's extremely unlikely...I know "no contact" will drive him crazy. It did the last time I tried; he contacted me multiple times during it, but that time I was much weaker than I am now. And now, if he contacts me, I'll just take it to mean that I was too nice to let go. But it won't mean that I think he is too nice to let go! A man who can say "there was never any future" to me, even though he loves me, isn't such a great guy for me. And someone wrote how he would just drag me down...yes, that could definitely be true. His jealousy could become even worse in time. His mood swings about my past could get worse. What a nightmare that would be, being a prisoner in my own marriage. I can't risk it. He DOES want a virginal version of me. That's just impossible. Am I supposed to sit around and cry that I'm not the version of me that he wants? I have beautiful kids from my ex-husband. They'll always love me. I'm not going to regret it even for a second.I didn't want to get married, but I really fell hard for him. He made me imagine being married again. But now I'm okay being single. I have a lot of things I should be doing and a lot of people I can help if I give time to it. At least my pain and all this extra energy could be used for something good, I hope.And no more details about my past from now on. I've already cut it out with scissors in my own mind. It won't exist in my future relationships. There's no use for it. DTMFA hahah Okay:) I did :))) "Whole enchilada!"---my new battle cry:)
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A
male
reader, Riot2017  +, writes (26 September 2017):
First of all, you never talk about your exes, and you avoid bringing the topic or giving any details as possible. Jealousy is a real thing on everybody, and it can bring misery to any relationship. One thing is being honest and straight forward like "i got raped" or "I was used by my exes". But don't go a lot into details, please. You are just going to spoil your future relationships. I made the big mistake of talking about one of my past platonic/crushes and spoiled the first years of my first relationship. Jealousy is the kind of poison that creeps into people's mind and it's impossible to get rid off. "Do you think that I should wait at the sidelines...maybe a month...before I contact him? "YES. Wait a month, or as long as you like. NO CONTACT BEFORE THE MONTH, PLEASE. "Would anything I do now, such as proving that I'm trustable and loyal to him, be able to affect the outcome? "NO. THE PROBLEM IS NOT YOU NOR YOUR PAST. THE PROBLEM IS YOUR EX'S JEALOUSY. He has a lot of issues that he needs to get fixed by himself. He needs to get his sh*t/act together or he will keep loosing valuable persons just like you. He needs to got to therapy, he has to learn to forgive and let go.YOU WILL NEVER BE HAPPY WITH THIS MAN, even if you get to marry him, as long as he does not heals himself and changes his mindset."Or should I just move on?"YES. The chances of him changing his world views are null to zero. People hardly change, the older they are, the harder it is for them to change their world views. He doesn't sees you as marriage material, even if you have everything he ever wanted in a woman.You see, many guys all over the world have the weird idea that the perfect woman exists, and has no flaws, no imperfection, is pure, and all that crap. But honestly, there is no single person out there that is perfect, without flaws, without mistakes in their past. Guys like him have a very infantile and simplistic views about women, and for some guys, basically if the girl is not a virgin or near virgin it's GAME OVER, like your EX. You deserve a guy that wants your "Whole Enchilada", including your past, there are very good guys out there that would metaphorically kill just for a chance for a good woman like you. You are worthy and valuable human being, regardless what guys like him think about your past, so just keep looking for the right kind of guy.Best luck!
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A
male
reader, Billy Bathgate +, writes (25 September 2017):
As US sex and advice columnist Dan Savage would say. DTMFA or Dump the Mother F**ker Already. He has said he wil never marry you. What else do you need to know? There are no magic words to make him not the jealous person he is.
If you want to be married and it sounds like you do. Then dump this slut shaming mook and move on.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 September 2017): Oh honey he is abusive.What he is doing is called emotional abuse and in time it can esculate into pysical abuse.Escape now while you can.It will get worse and you do deserve better. Call a women's shelter and get educated on this.They will tell you the same thing I have. You live now in different countries so just make a clean break.You are a good person and deserve a decent man who treats you like a queen.All you are doing is living in a fantasy that is not real.When someone shows you who they really are please believe them.You know you can do better.
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A
female
reader, Youcannotbeserious  + ♥, writes (24 September 2017):
 Sweetheart, you need to wake up and realize this man is not the perfect creature you are making him out to be. Take off those rose coloured spectacles and see he is in love with an image he has created in his head, not with the real YOU - history, flaws and all. He wants some virginal maiden who has never even been touched by another man, who he can put on a pedestal and worship. You are a REAL woman with a past - like most women your age - and he cannot handle that.
You are not living in the fairy story. You are living in the real world. I shuddered when I read your gushing description of how he did everything for you and insisted on watching you fall asleep. That sort of obsessive behaviour would be SCREAMING red flags at me and would have had me running for the hills and cutting all contact.
Yet, despite all that, you adore this man BECAUSE of his behaviour, not DESPITE it. Is that how you see good healthy relationships? The man needs to idolize the woman and treat her like a "princess"? If you stayed together, how long do you think you could do everything he expected so that you didn't come crashing down off that pedestal he had balanced you on so precariously? You already had to tread on eggshells where your ex boyfriends were concerned. How long before other things displeased him?
You need to remind yourself that, not only has be chosen not to be with you due to something completely out of your control, he is also not really in love with YOU but with an image of perfection he has created in his mind. You will NEVER be able to live up to that.
You know now what you would like in a relationship. Go out and find a man who can give you that but who accepts you as the person you are, not as a goddess to be worshipped. Live in the real world and leave this man to live in the one he has created in his head.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (24 September 2017):
 I think that deep down you know that you should move on and that one more month won't change anything. because, what's your being loyal and trustworthy has got to do with the issue ? It's not your loyalt that he was questioning- just your pasr. Of course in the twisted mind of an RJ sufferer , that you had x number of men in the past might come to signify that you'll also want x number of men in the future ; but I don't think this is the problem, because even if from now on you lived like a recluse, never seeing / talking to any other man but him, - nevertheless, your past would still be there to bother him.
As a matter of fact, I got the feeling that he made you play with a rigged deck right from the start. He comes from a culture where he is supposed to fulfill his duty to get married by a certain age, and a culture were semi-arranged marriage are not unusual. Therefore, a culture where you get married not just to make yourself happy, but also to make your society, community and family happy.
This implies, I guess, marrying the " right " girl- someone from the some background and / or social class , religion... and definitely someone without a " past ". That your past may be not scandalous , and that part of this past consists in you having been the victim of a heinous crime.. still, you do not come officially brand new, with tags - and that makes you NOT marriage material - and I believe he must have been aware of that since day one.
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A
male
reader, N91 +, writes (24 September 2017):
 Wasting your time completely.
He will never get over this without some kind of therapy and he hasn't taken the initiative to seek out the help he needs so he can't be that serious about you guys having a future together.
Block and delete him and move on. You'll find someone who's compatible with you.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (24 September 2017):
 I would move on because you most likely can't change him. Of course there are some people who claim that they find ways to deal with retroactive jealousy but you can't bet your time on this. Time would be wisely used to just find another man who does not have an issue at all. You are only hanging on to his sweet words and gestures. I think people who use words like princess, especially when they are in their 30's, are living in a fairy tale indeed. In fact you shouldn't be. Real life is nothing like a fairy tale. When women are put in pedestals they are bound to fall down one day, and there would be nothing to keep a relationship together. Relationships are not sustained by how you address the other, or how sweet the moment feels. People should deal with relationships like adults because there are more important things to worry about than the past. He's also hanging onto this not because this is based on real love, but he has the realization that he does not have much choice because most women his age will have a past.
To be able to overcome retroactive jealousy, one has to correct errors in thinking. Not only to intellectually understand how humans relate, but also to have the maturity to accept life as it is in the modern days. His error in thinking is that sex is there for men to enjoy, and women just take it. If there's no relationship that follows, then the women are damaged because casual sex can't be fun for women too.
I think he was focusing more on the fact that you had casual sex, than the fact you were raped. The response to rape should be more sympathy, rather than internal anguish. It should be sensitivity and patience.
Another hard adjustment for him is that, he used to think that men control the situation. Men call all the shorts. He can't fathom that women can leave relationships too, on their own will. This is very unsettling and horrifying for him. Women are no longer feeble minded creatures who wait at the virgin towers to be rescued. They have equal power.
It's either that women are taken advantaged of, or that they can be so cruel to dump men.
I don't even want to call what he has as retroactive jealousy. I can understand that some men choose not to have relationships with experienced women, or feel no attraction towards them. But to have an internal disturbance like he has, is mental illness. Or he's like someone trapped in the middle ages to have such rigid views towards women.
He also has issues with the concept of impermanence. You mentioned his loss of parents so there could be his fear of death. He probably hasn't dealt with grief properly. One who has a fear of death also has a fear of living. You have many years ahead of you. You don't need to be dragged down with him. I know at 6 months you still have fond feelings for him but this stuff gets old very quickly. If you wait longer than you risk sucking in his energy, like getting anxiety attacks yourself.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (24 September 2017):
No. You can't fix this. You can't fix him. THAt is his job if he WANTS to change (and most people don't REALLY want to).
CUT the contact. You don't need to keep him around to have someone. Especially since you DON'T have and WON'T have him - rather HE doesn't want YOU. He wanted some "virginal" version of you that doesn't exist. You can't BE that person. But you CAN STOP wasting your time on a guy who makes you feel like crap for having had a past.
LEARN from this. When dating someone, don't go into details about stuff from the past. NO, not saying you shouldn't tell a guy you were raped. It's part of your history but maybe the details of ALL your toxic and shitty BF should be LEFT in the past. How does dragging up the past help you now? If you really WANT to talk about relationships in detail talk to a therapist, a good friend, journal about it or even here on DC.
People who deal with RJ focus on it like a snake on a mouse. Not entirely because that is all they do but... it becomes obsessive thoughts. This is why I think it's better you cut him out of your life and move on.
You are 30 and divorce....So what? Does that mean you should now settle for a guy who doesn't want the REAL you?
There are PLENTY of guys out there who could be a good match. THIS it's the guy.
Stop living a fantasy. He is not magically "get over" his RJ and you two ride off into the sunset. It's not reality.
And seriously... If you can find ONE almost great guy... you can find another. One that's a better fit.
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