A
male
age
41-50,
*-treem
writes:I am in a bit of pickle situation and it's pretty deep and I don't know what to do now. I thought I could handle it and that the answer would present itself by way of circumstance, but this hasn't happened and now I'm in desperate need of help.I have two girlfriends. The first I have been with for just over 14 months and we used to work together (where we met). She is Australian. The second I have been with for nearly 5 months and we met on a dating website. She is Latvian. They are both 29 years old. I am 32.Neither of them know about one another. And I know many reading this might say I'm a lying cheating scumbag and that is probably true to some extent. But, I am now in the position where I love both of them and they both love me, but I only want to be with one - it's not about ego-boosting anymore (if it was in the first place), I am constantly stressed trying to please them both and not having much sleep due to maintaining two relationships as well as a full-time job and everything else going on in my life. And it has now reached a point where I am finding myself crying over the prospect of having to destroy one of their dreams.The dilemma I have is one of looks vs. personality and they are both pretty and have good personalities. However, the personality of Australian is much better than Latvian. But Latvian's body and looks are much better than Australian. I have looked online and it looks like I'm facing an age-old battle: http://www.girlsaskguys.com/Articles/Relationships/Looks-Vs-Personality-The-Breakdown.htmlTo describe each relationship in a little more detail:Australian: I just spent two weeks over New Year in Australia with her and her family. We had a great time. A year ago, we spent a week in Scotland travelling around in the snow visiting castles and reindeer then we spent Christmas in my hometown where she met my old friends and family. In January, she fell pregnant and had an abortion. Things after that got tough - she blamed her moods on her maternal switch turning on due to the pregnancy. She went on the pill and bled excessively for three months. She also gained some weight (about 10kg in less than a year). As a result of all of this, the sex became very seldom. And we had arguments and problems, but she is an absolute diamond. She deals with arguments maturely and does not play games of any sort - she's always completely honest, especially about her feelings and emotions and is always willing and ready to resolve things. She'll readily apologise, even when she's not in the wrong. But, now, there is no passion. She never initiates sex and never has done and she puts this down to never having done so with anyone. But, I don't feel like initiating it anymore with her - the physical attraction just isn't there for me.Latvian: Because of the problems I was having with Australian, I decided to look online, I guess to satisfy my sexual desires and/or ego, or boredom or something. I'm not sure exactly, but I decided to look without first ending my relationship with Australian. Scumbag I know. I never initiated contact with anyone though; then, one day, I received a message from Latvian. Initially in awe of her beauty from her pictures, we exchanged a few messages then met up in August. She was even more stunning in the flesh, and we had a lot in common, including getting married on the exact same day a few years earlier. We got on really well and slept together the first night. We then went to Turkey for a week a few weeks later and I have been to Latvia to visit her family (in November) and we just spent Christmas together in my hometown up north of England where she met my old friends and family (Australian was already in Australia where I went just after Christmas). However, we have been having arguments too, but she deals with them very immaturely to the extent of completely ignoring me in person or on the phone and breaking contact for days at a time. She seems to play games to get her way and for me to succumb to her. And she'll never ever apologise or admit to being in the wrong. However, when things are good, they're great. She shows caring and consideration when it's due. But the resounding plus of all is that the sex is great and constant. And we both enjoy it greatly - she even says I'm the best she's ever had.So, the situation now:While I was in Australia, I suggested to Australian that we should perhaps have a break after we get back to England. This upset her greatly. She has talked about marriage, kids and moving to Australia - so I know there is a secure future with her and I could not ask for a more loyal or faithful wife. Then, the next day, I spoke to Latvian on the phone - she announced she is pregnant!! I was actually happy about this and so was she.Yesterday, I brought up the matter of a break with Australian again and she cried in front of me. It's hard to describe here in words, but the sense I get from Australian is almost like an unrelenting love and desire to be in a relationship with me and that I am her absolute world. And it is hard to ignore that. Even though Latvian loves me, I know she wouldn't express herself the same way - she would (and has in the past over other matters) become nasty and threaten to break up with me. Australian would never do this.Last night, I was driving home and just burst into tears at the prospect of having to split up with Australian. I think of all the memories we have and how I could be letting go the best girl I have ever met in terms of sweetness and personality. Then I saw a quote on Facebook: "One day, you're going to want that specific girl who wasn't perfect but tried to be for you the girl who wanted nothing more than to love you; the girl who sees your flaws but values them, the girl who can't bring herself to hate you even though you probably deserve it... Who realised that she may never have your heart but will carry the image of you forever and, when you realise that's the girl you're looking for, she'll be with the guy who already knew." This made me cry again because it felt like it applied directly to Australian. In fact, I can't imagine seeing her with another man - I think it would hurt me deeply. I don't feel this with Latvian - if we split up and she ended up with another man, I don't think I would be bothered at all. In fact, I'd probably feel a little sorry for him having to put up with her woes.I've talked mainly about their personalities above, but it's probably fair to mention a few other things to consider in the looks department. Australian is much shorter than me, pale-skinned, poor complexion, good facial structure so is very pretty with makeup. She smokes regularly (trying to give up), regular social drinker, occasionally takes drugs (used to take a lot!). Latvian is taller than me in heels, natural slight tan, beautiful by all accounts in the face (turns heads!), doesn't smoke, drinks very little and has never taken drugs.So, that's about it. I may have sounded very regimented in parts with this, but I wanted to try and keep things as factual and concise as possible. And I'm sure I'll get some replies saying I should ditch both of them and that I'm a scumbag and should let one go ASAP before I hurt either or both of them. I've spoken to quite a few friends about this and I've had all of that. But, this really is a very difficult situation now simply because I have now got so much emotion invested in both of them, and vice versa.Posting on here is really a last resort because I feel completely lost now - despite all my friends I've spoken to about it, it's actually a lonely place because I don't think any of them can truly understand where I am without being in the situation themselves.I hope I can get some help or ideas with this from this community from people who are impartial and may even have dealt with or seen similar situations before. Thank you for your help in advance.X-treem
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female
reader, k_c100 +, writes (8 February 2011):
 You keep coming here looking for your next bashing, I think you are enjoying this otherwise you would not keep posting these follow ups provoking the aunts & uncles on this site! You are not even asking for advice anymore, you are just telling us how you have no willpower and are quite possibly the most flaky person on earth - my opinion is that you feel so guilty about all of this and because you cant tell either girl and release that guilt, you are looking to strangers to make you feel bad for all you have done.
But anyway, your bizzare behaviour aside - I have one last thing to add to this mess. If you really want the Australian to hate you and to make her feel so much better about the break-up - tell her you are having a baby with another woman and are leaving her for them.
I know you dont want either girl to know about each other and think it would make things worse, but believe me it would make breaking up with the Australian a million times easier. At the moment, she thinks there is something to salvage from this relationship. She thinks SHE is responsible for this relationship having problems and she is putting all her heart and soul into making this work. If you break up with her then she will continue to believe this, she will always blame herself for losing what she thinks is a great man. Is that really fair on her?
You are going to break her heart one way or another, why not prevent her from blaming herself for the rest of her life for losing you and tell her the real reason? If you told her the real reason for the break up at least she would not mourn the loss of a wonderful man, she would know she has lost the biggest jerk on earth and is better off without you.
You have two choices here:
1. Break up with her and lie about the real reason. Consequences: she will question herself about what she did wrong for years, she will feel like she has lost the love of her life, she will blame herself - in essence this is the type of thing that a girl may never get over.
2. Break up with her and tell her the whole truth. Consequences: she will be mad, furious in fact, she will hate you, she will wonder what she did not have that the Latvian has, she will be relieved to be rid of a cheat, she will remember she is worth more than this, she will be stronger in the end. In essence yes she will be more angry than option 1, but it will make her stronger and a better person in the end.
If you want to do right by a woman you claim to love so much - then give her the chance to get over you and find a better man, to go on to be happy again one day with a man who treats her right.
If you still are as much of a coward as you have displayed throughout the saga then you will go with option 1 - I bet you will enjoy the ego boost knowing you have this broken hearted woman pining for you and waiting around if you ever wanted to go back to her.
Here is one last chance to prove yourself and show to the world that you are not as much of a jerk as you sound - tell the truth, let her hate you and become a stronger person for the bad experience. If not, you will not have only wasted the last few years of her life, but you will ruin her future too. Give her a chance of happiness again - dont let her think this is her fault. That really would take this whole saga to a new low.
A
female
reader, chocoholicforever  +, writes (8 February 2011):
to be honest it doesn't sound like you're any further along than you were before. your situation seems to be getting worse, in fact.
You broke up with the Australian and got with the Latvian, then broke up with the Latvian and got back with the Australian.
Now you're back with the Latvian again and still with the Australian??
And this is all just in the last month?
There's certainly passion in your relationship with the Latvian but it doesn't sound like a positive kind of passion that makes for a happy relationship over the long term. it sounds like a negative type of passion, the kind where the things that right now ignite your own passion (the heated exchanges, the great shows of emotion) eventually - from years of familiarity like if you were to marry her - fizzles out into annoyance and irritation and contempt.
It sounds like you don't really like the Latvian's personality and attitudes. You were and are trying to change her. Be aware that trying to change someone - especially if you're trying to overhaul their entire personality - is usually either unsuccessful thus frustrating to you, or leads to resentment in them thus killing their feelings for you.
I guess you can ask yourself which is more do-able and realistic: building passion with the Australian, or changing the Latvian's personality to be less volatile and annoying?
it sounds to me on the surface it should be more realistic or do-able to build passion with the Australian because it doesn't sound like such an overhaul of a person's entire character, which is what you're trying to do to make the Latvian more civil and less annoying.
However, you still haven't come clean to the Australian that you're cheating on her. And that you're going to father someone else's child. This is still a massive problem if you choose to be with her.
If she knew the truth about you, you may have your choice made for you on who to be with, by default.
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A
female
reader, Gabrielle Stoker +, writes (8 February 2011):
 I fear that all the work you've put in has been largely in the nature of a grave you'll sink into eventually.
I hope it works out for all three of you eventually, but I wouldn't count on it. Still, all the best.
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A
female
reader, angelDlite +, writes (8 February 2011):
 i am sorry that you don't like the opinion i expressed but you surely know how provocative you are being and indeed you will be waiting for the next bashing.
my advice would be to tell the Australian what you have done instead of keeping it from her. and i do not say this because i want her to exact some sort of revenge on you; i say it because i think it would benefit her more if she knows the real reason for your split rather than to leave her questioning herself, puzzling over what she has done wrong and wondering if she was only better could she have kept you because this will change her, and make her totally doubt herself. it is no good that she continues to torture herself wanting you back, she actually deserves better doesn't she, so do the right thing and 'set her free'.
and with regards to passion with the Latvian, i hope you are prepared that once your baby arrives the passion level is likely to drop very significantly.
it seems to me that neither girl is actually the right one for you.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 February 2011): this is the best news. It's my birthday today. And I rank this amongst my best presents.
Yay! The Australian girl is now going to be free to find a guy who is real (not up himself) and genuine (not weak and false). I am so happy for the Australian girl. She's free from the lies, the misery she's been enduring. Finally the truth will dawn. She can go forward. Her children can grow up in sunshine with an intelligent genuine Mom. In a great environment. Could not go to a more deserving great gal.
And even better is that the booby prize gets to be with the other booby prize. Enjoy Latvia. The misery, the screaming, the tantrums. Could not go to a more deserving recipient.
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A
male
reader, X-treem +, writes (8 February 2011):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the question I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for the contents of this post, but here goes...
I'm back with Latvian. Yes, after the massive fracas we had in the car two and a half weeks ago, we ended up reconciling things. The incident in the car happened because I wanted her to hate me - I wanted there to be absolutely no chance of us ever being able to get back together. It didn't go as planned. She texted me saying she still loves me and indicated that she was still pregnant. The feeling I got was not one of fear or concern, but one of relief and happiness. I realised then that I must go round and level with her, tell her why I did what I did - that I wanted her to hate me, but now my emotions and feelings have overridden everything I intended at the time, and here we are still loving each other and still passionate. And the passion is the thing that separates Latvian and Australian massively. As much as I have gone over and over it in my head, I cannot escape the lack of passion in my relationship with Australian no matter how much I try to place value on all the other aspects of our relationship and her as a fantastic person.
A few days ago, I received a really long e-mail from Australian pretty much going over every aspect of our relationship and putting in so much effort to try and fix things. It was heart-wrenching. She is trying so so hard and I simply can't reciprocate. I have been doing more research online on other forums where other people have asked similar questions about love versus passion and I've realised that there is no definitive answer. It depends on the person. And, although a relationship CAN continue with just love but no passion, this is not for everyone. Some people NEED passion, some don't. I guess I'm the former and no amount of trying to convince myself otherwise will ever change that. And with Latvian, even though she can be difficult at times, we have incredible passion.
However, I also read that if someone loves you and adores you, you should feel very lucky and not throw that away. I guess that would be true in my case if I were monogamous with Australian, but I also have Latvian who also loves me dearly, but I wouldn't use the word "adores" for her. But, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I will see it in time; but, as my best friend said, I can't keep comparing them with each other - people are different, especially girls (as he said)!
"airwaterearthfirebender" (!!) - I know you and others keep saying that I should grow some balls and tell Australian the whole truth. But, this contrasts what ALL my friends have said and they all know me and her. It would serve no benefit to tell her, especially if I don't want to be with her.
So the current situation - Latvian had the abortion scheduled for last Wednesday, but we reconciled things on the Sunday before and we literally got right up to the point of the appointment (even drove to the abortion clinic) to come to a final decision on the baby and we decided to keep it and work hard on our relationship. And things seem really good now - it was almost like we needed the major debacle we had to get to the better place we are at now in our relationship. As for Australian, I have prepped her as much as I can for a potential break-up. It's truly heart-breaking and I feel for her so much. I love her to bits and I hate myself and this situation that she is going through and will have to go through after we split up. She truly is a special diamond of a person. But I think we are better as great friends rather than lovers.
I just hate the idea of destroying her dreams. She's at an age where she wants to settle down and she's going to be so lonely without me in this country opposite side of the world from her friends and family. My motives re her are largely unselfish. If I knew she had a great support network and could move on easily and wasn't so fazed by the prospect of losing me, I'd probably drop her much more easily. As much as this situation to everyone on DearCupid portrays me to be a selfish cheating b*stard, it's actually because I HAVE a heart that I feel so caught between a rock and a hard place.
I think about when we were playing about in the snow in Scotland - just us together facing a future together - we were happy - oblivious to the future as it has turned out. I feel guilty for building those dreams in the relationship we had pre-Latvian. She never knew during our happy times that we were on a path to destruction in the passage of time. Australian has never done a thing wrong. Why should I destroy her like this by dumping her? What gives me that right? I asked my best friend this and he said my feelings have changed - THAT gives me the right.
I await the onslaught from everyone on here now. Oh, and angelDLite, you seem to be fumingly angry in front of your keyboard at me, a mere stranger to you. While I don't actually care for your unconstructive retorts, I would ask that you show a little respect because I doubt you'd talk to someone you don't know like this in the street or workplace regardless of what you know about them!
Everyone else, thank you all so much so far for following this and bearing with me as I try to resolve this train-wreck of a situation.
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A
male
reader, airwaterearthfirebender  +, writes (6 February 2011):
 X-streem, I'm going to make this short...you need to come clean with Australian, otherwise your deception continues. Just put yourself in her shoes and see how you would feel. Come clean, then you will know if it was meant to be with Australian or not, otherwise you're still living the lie. You're still a fraud, and you know it. I'm trying to make you a better you. Don't be afraid or fearful of the fallout or whatever is holding you back. If you say she is the one, then you owe her that. Don't let her have to find out on her own or happenstance. It will be worse, and you will then feel worse and be seen as worse. Say you did a bad thing, and you are ashamed of it, that you will accept her judgement which she rightfully should administer. Stop being a boy. Be a man. Take your medicine. Grow back those balls you yourself know you haven't had the benefit of lately. I'm not being condescending, I'm trying to make you realize a better you. You can do it. If you can't do this, I think you will be living a shallow existence, there will be a hollow space in you - much like the often smoke and mirrors in your industry...unless of course it does not bother you, perhaps characteristics of a sociopath. You're still pulling the wool over her eyes. Think about it, do you value yourself that little that you continue to feel the need to deceive this woman you say you love? She doesn't even know who you are. Sure, Latvian may be a bitch and crazy, but you're a liar and much more sinister from where I stand. You are evil if you continue this fraud, regardless if it is driven from sheer insecurity, shame, or downright evil. Take your pick, she is still being deceived about who you are. This can be a defining moment in your character development and what you represent.
What are you afraid of? Rejection? Yes, she may well reject you and she should. Frankly, you have yet to prove you are deserving. Still the liar you are. Yoda would say that to you. Then we'll see what you're made of. You'll see if you're ready to man up and wait for her to maybe come around or whether you'll quickly do the easy thing and hook up with someone else. At which time you will prove she meant nothing to you. Perhaps that's what happens in an environment of fast cars and fast women. Everyone wants their cake and to eat it to no matter what it takes or what toll it takes on your value system or your soul...call it what you will. Her loyalty and love for you is based on a lie, on deception. You really don't know if she loves the real you, or the lie you project, the lie you have constructed.
So what's it gonna be "X-streem"?
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A
female
reader, angelDlite +, writes (25 January 2011):
you are really priceless. you dumped the Aussie and never even had the courage to tell her the real reason. is this because you did not want to COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY burn your bridges with her? you wanted her to still love you, even though she couldn't have you? you are malignant. leaving that poor girl utterly confused and thinking SHE had done something wrong!
you decided to get with the Latvian, until you broke up with her (the mother of your unborn child) over a frankly PATHETIC AND INFANTILE argument.
so then its back to Aussie, after all, you had left the door open for yourself.
i was hoping that your absence mean't that you had been doing something constructive, so i read your HEADACHE of a post, just hoping to see you'd had a conscience transplant.
it seems you haven't. i just hope this is the end of your game.
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (24 January 2011):
 Aside from that, and Im ignoring the elements that triggers me here, I think you made the right decision with going for Australian. But I really really hope you will realize that you can not blame the lack of passion on your girl. If you are sincere about working it out with Australian now, which it sounds like you want to, you absolutely NEED to change your ways. A lack of passion you said, could it not possibly come from how you were dishonest, you slept with another woman, you didn't have the energy for two relationships etc.? All those things would surely put a stop to any passion. It is a natural way to behave if you can not be 100% honest, you will pull away and be more distant.
You can't fool her around any longer, or your relationship will never be the best it can be, it will always just be halfways there. She knows there was something else wrong, and she will work at figuring it out. Female intuition you know. And it's not fair on her to pass the blame elsewhere when the blame is on you. If you really do not want to confess the truth to her, and be honest with her, then the least you can do is tell her that you have been struggling with some personal problems that you do not feel ready to talk to her about. But that you are now working on them.
I really do hope that this fact of life will sink in soon, we're not trying to blow off steem on you or whatever you think. We're being honest. This type of living is not good for you or for anyone, and you are only fooling yourself by your way of thinking. It won't work in the long term, it hasn't even worked in the short term. The sooner you open your eyes to that the better. The only way you can have a deep and meaningful, and passionate and fulfilling relationship is by being honest. No sneaking around. No thinking about yourself only. Always putting your partner first. Daring to open up to get hurt. Risk putting your heart out there, risk that she might step on it and hurt you. I think you're scared of that, because you perhaps think that everyone is like you, everyone could easily cheat and hurt. So... this all comes down to honesty and being brave enough to trust your heart with someone else.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (24 January 2011):
I actually liked sageoldguys's reply. Sorry you couldn't see the value in it. I saw the value in it though, so don't speak on "our" behalf when you say no one could benefit from it.
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A
male
reader, X-treem +, writes (24 January 2011):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for all your replies once again, and apologies for not updating or replying myself sooner - I didn't want to frustrate the situation with you guys any more by going back and forth in my own head about what to do, and it has also been a very eventful past week. But I think things have pretty much settled, and I can now update with a final conclusion about the path forwards...
Firstly, I just want to reply to Sageoldguy - I don't know what you wanted to contribute with your post apart from wanting to be insulting and shoving your unconstructive opinion down my throat as a way of letting off your own personal steam; but it certainly didn't offer any value to me or anyone else. I'm sure you'll follow with another reply of zero value.
airwaterearthfirebender, thank you for your long reply once again. Your fourth paragraph pretty much describes what I'm going through. Yes, the deception has become matter of fact, a part of me, and has cost a part of me. I am questioning my integrity and I have even said to myself that I feel soulless. I am actually asking myself 'am I evil?' I sometimes try to rationalise it by saying that I am just trying to prevent anyone from being hurt (i.e., Latvian and Australian) while trying to keep my own needs satisfied. It's like I'm working around the clock and causing myself stress and anguish to please three people - Latvian, Australian and me - with a hope that I can get out of it at some point with minimal net damage.
Anyway, I would like to post here now an update of everything that has happened over the past week...
After my last message on 14 January, I spoke with Latvian on the phone and we agreed to meet up. I went to her place and after much deliberation we ended up reconciling things on the basis of a compromise between us. The main cause of most of our arguments was miscommunication due to cultural and language differences. We agreed that either one of us would be allowed to flag any miscommunication between us and engage in a mature adult and peaceful discussion about it to resolve any issues with it. She also agreed to be more cooperative and mature in arguments and not act ignorant and go silent and to not yell and shout scornfully at me unnecessarily when I always act calm and collected.
The following four days went brilliantly and on Tuesday (18 January), we went to the abortion clinic together where she had a consultation appointment and told them we were going to keep the baby.
Meanwhile, I had been gearing myself up with Australian to break things off and had played things in that direction with her in an attempt to mentally prepare her for the worst. After the abortion clinic appointment, I met up with Australian and broke up with her. It was one of the hardest things I had ever done and it broke my heart to see her cry and become extremely emotional shattering her dreams of being with the man that she loved for the rest of her life. I told her I love and am still in love with her but due to everything we've talked about (e.g., loss of passion), we just can't go on. She tried to convince me the passion can be regained and she had a massive list of things to do for me this year to help regain our passion. She said after the last year and everything we went through - the abortion, the hormonal changes she went through, etc. - we could get through this one small thing. She couldn't make sense of it. I told her she's the best girl I've ever been involved with and she's loving, fun, loved, caring, etc. I said we have absolutely everything that two best friends would have (except a different kind of love of course). The difference between two best friends and a boyfriend and girlfriend is the passion and we don't have that. She insisted we could work on that. She was convinced there was something I'm not telling her. It was hard acting convincingly that there wasn't.
It really was extremely difficult - I felt I was leaving the best thing that's ever happened to me. I told her I didn't deserve her, but obviously I couldn't say why. She asked why, but I just said it's because of everything we've already talked about, stuff she's already aware of. But that didn't cut it for her. My only consolation was that I would've broken her heart whether I cheated on her or not. But, I still felt like a c**t.
That night, I was out with some friends for a curry and Latvian joined us later. It was a good night. The next morning (Wednesday), Latvian and I had a bit of a D&M (Deep & Meaningful) and I mentioned (very calmly and peacefully) that she sounded demanding in something she said as we arrived home the night before – my intention was to address it and clear up any misunderstanding as per what we had agreed the Friday before as part of our compromise that we would raise any miscommunication issue and discuss it peacefully.
However, she immediately blew up and reacted argumentatively raising her voice. She broke every promise she made during our compromise last week and, within half an hour of the argument starting, she threatened me with abortion of the baby! I found the fact she was using her pregnancy as a weapon in arguments very uncouth.
We then spent two hours in the mall discussing and many hours on the phone later in the day. After much deliberation – mainly me doing lots of talking and her ignoring me on the phone resulting in further frustration and repetitiveness and time-wasting – she admitted to overreacting, but said that this is her personality – that she will always be argumentative and unreasonable. I explained that this is the easy option for anyone – I said I could easily be argumentative and unreasonable, but saying it’s part of your personality is not an excuse – it’s down to an individual to learn to control themselves for the sake of people around them. Everyone has it in them to throw their toys out the pram; the difference between those who maintain relationships and those who don’t is the ability to compromise and be able to control themselves.
Another thing that worries me is that she said she would never make an effort to keep our relationship unless she thinks it’s her fault for any given rift. I explained that in most arguments, both parties normally feel they’re in the right, but at least one person has to make an effort. If both parties felt it was the other person’s fault and didn’t make an effort as a result, the relationship would end needlessly. But she said it will always have to be me that makes an effort even if we both think it’s each other’s fault, because it’s the man’s duty to chase the girl. It shocks me that she would be willing to let the relationship end due to stubbornness. Imagine this situation in 20 years when the relationship is much more serious!
I kept telling her on the phone that all she needs to do for things to work between us is to permit peaceful discussion if ever there is a miscommunication issue. Thing is, she agrees agrees agrees, then bumph! She’s shifting blame towards me again. And around in a big huge circle we go again.
So, on Thursday evening, Latvian came over to where I work (Canary Wharf) on the Tube and was tired and hungry. So, we started walking to my car, but I’d told her already that all my work colleagues were at a bar for a leaving do which she said earlier she didn’t want to go to which is fair enough. However, because she was hungry and tired and it would require travelling home, going to the supermarket on the way back, then preparing dinner before she ate, I suggested we go somewhere to eat straight away – so, I suggested the place where my work colleagues were so that I could say a quick hello/goodbye and we could sit down and have food. She just gave me a load of abuse back about this saying I shouldn’t dare offer and that she hates Canary Wharf and that she’s “allergic” to everywhere around here, and that she wants home-made food, blah blah blah.
I kept my calm and kept asking if she needed anything and she demanded I buy her conditioner for her hair, but she was extremely narky towards me and I continued to be nice as pie to her asking if she needed anything, etc. But, due to the way she was acting, I also kept asking why she was being this way and what on earth I’d done to make her act this way. When we got to outside the bar where my colleagues were, I asked her if I could just pop in for 30 seconds to say goodbye – she didn’t even allow me this! She asked what is she going to do while I’m in there. It was just 30 seconds! I suggested to either come inside or wait for me outside. She was just being purely difficult.
We went to the car and I asked her again what on earth I’d done to make her be like this. She said she doesn’t know why she’s like this, she just feels she has something against me now. I started the car up and drove off, but I was fuming inside by this point and I resented the fact that she didn’t want me to attend this leaving do, even for one drink – I know she was tired, but any decent person would sustain a quick visit for the benefit of their partner just paying their respects, just as I would expect someone to come to my leaving do for a few minutes at least to show they made the effort even if they could not make it the entire evening due to other engagements. She was just being completely selfish.
I pulled into a quiet area across the Thames from the O2 – it was like something out of a thriller movie, like something bad was about to happen! And I said I wanted to know once and for all what I have done so bad tonight to make her like this. And she just continued along the same line about how I shouldn’t have offered to take her to a restaurant for food, etc. And I just blew up! I flipped my lid big time! I went into a rage of telling her how selfish and spoilt she is, how she just demands demands demands all the time, wants this, wants that. I said that no one has ever got me this angry, she has driven me absolutely insane. I told her to go and have the abortion (as that was what she kept saying she wanted all day and the day before), I don’t ever want to see her again and that I don’t love her anymore.
Since then, I have felt completely liberated, and although I miss her a little bit, I actually don't feel sorry for her because she was such a bitch. However, I have though about Australian constantly and how she must be feeling, and I have missed her a lot. I have even dreamt of her every night. In fact, part of the reason I was able to cut things of with Latvian was because of all these feelings for Australian as I think deep down that's whom I wanted to be with. Consequently, I ended up patching things up with Australian and we discussed again about the failings of our relationship – mainly the lack of passion. I told her I would love to give it a go again but asked what could be done to fix the passion problem. I told her that I love everything about her – she’s pure, honest, kind, generous, loving, caring, mature, rational, cooperative, methodical, logical, loyal, faithful, doesn’t play games; and in the past few days, I have been impressed with the way she’s responded to our break-up – she hasn’t become nasty, and I said that this is something I have never experienced before – the psychos I’ve been out with before always end up being nasty and evil. I said the only thing missing is the passion – but I have looked at the links she’s sent me (Google love vs. passion) and agreed with some of it. I suggested as diplomatically as possible a couple of ways we could regain the passion: 1) her initiating things more, 2) us getting back in shape. #2 was really a hint, but she appreciates exactly what I mean, and even said that was fully her intention for 2011. Anyway, we have concluded we will try again, but a lot of effort is going to be made to get the passion back.
So, that's the latest on this saga. I think that will probably be the last we hear from Latvian as I have no intention of reconciling things with her after recent events. It was fun (to an extent) while it lasted, but I think one thing I have learned from this whole experience that I would like to share is that incredible beauty can easily cloud your judgment of something great that you already have which may not have the same level of physical beauty, but is much more beautiful in other ways that are far more important. It's a classic case of thinking the grass is greener on the other side, and it actually wasn't.
Thank you all again for your replies and the insight they have given me. This has been instrumental in helping me resolve my messy situation.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 January 2011): at what point amongst all your dalliances and bed hopping do you ever consider contraception?
Marry the Latvian, you'll have a miserable time when arguments occur. Her looks will fade and you'll be left with a lined face wizened woman whose personality you don't like.
By marrying her it will especially hurt the girl with the good personality, underlining to her that you couldn't propose marriage when she got pregnant. But you can for the more recently installed girl friend. That will really hurt her deeply. Yes you are behaving like a cad.
I do hope the other girl goes on to find a man who'll be loyal and honest to her. He'll get to enjoy her good personality and her pleasant assertive way of dealing with any issues that arise.
Who knows with a bit of loyalty and good loving this girl with the good personality may blossom into a beauty and a very good mother to her children. You'll miss out on all that.
You discuss these two women like a farmer at the auctions choosing a new cow for the herd. How long before you cheat on whoever you choose anyway?
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reader, chocoholicforever +, writes (14 January 2011):
hello x-treem I'm sorry to hear you have such a mess. I think you acknowledge that you and you alone created it, but as for how to get out of it:I too think you should end it with both women.At least the Latvian woman broke up with you, that's one situation solved.But you're choosing to stay with the Australian woman based on her misinformed devotion to you not based on whether you and her really click together. her devotion to you is "misinformed" because she doesn't know you've cheated on her and got someone else pregnant. If she knew the truth about you, would she still be so devoted to you?? You're basing your decision to stay with her on something that shouldn't really exist.And now because you have cheated on her but not told her, there really isn't a way to gauge if you and her actually click or not. because the truth is hidden since you're hiding a big part of your character from her. besides it's quite likely that at some point in the future the Australian woman will find out about the Latvian and the pregnancy. You say you don't want to break up with the Australian woman because you don't want to hurt her? Think of how much more hurt it will cause her to NOT break up with her and then in future she finds out about your cheating and getting someone else pregnant. It's kinder, or at least less cruel, to break up with her now, if you truly don't want to hurt her!At the very least, it takes two people to be in a relationship. if you want to stay with her you need to confess to her what else you've been up to, the full extent. She needs to know the truth of who she is dealing with so she can make her own decision, for her own future, whether or not to be in this relationship with you. Don't rob her of her right to have an equal choice in whether this is the right relationship for her or not. You say you don't want to hurt her? So don't hurt her. Don't hoodwink her.Either that or just end the mess cleanly now and break up with the Australian too, don't drag the poor woman into your personal issues that you created, and start your life over without affecting either of them.
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reader, airwaterearthfirebender +, writes (14 January 2011):
X-treem, you said it yourself, you need to grow some balls brother. I mean, you're in your thirties, time is ticking unnecessarily and you're wasting time playing this deception and it's messing with your head. You're obviously intelligent and a deep thinker, and this is worse for you. A stupider guy could pull what you're doing and not think twice about it. But you're a guy, you still have the stupid gene otherwise you wouldn't have gotten yourself in this predicament. Don't get me wrong though, women have that gene too but shows itself in other ways, typically stupidity stemming from low self-image. The way I see it, you're making things overly complicated and stressful for yourself. Do what's right and honorable and I think you will see that the answers will begin to present themselves by circumstance. Acknowledge you f'ed BY YOUR ACTIONS. Saying it isn't enough, they're just words and frankly, meaningless without the action. I can see that you are still waffling, still unsure. From my more objective viewpoint and that of others, the path to take appears very clear. Stop the lies, stop the deception, and the answers will present themselves one way or another. You may not like the answers but they will be the best answers made with full disclosure. Draw a line in the sand, step over it, and begin conducting yourself in the way you know you should be conducting yourself...like a real man should, not like a boy. Let the way you have recently behaved die in the past, behind the line. The deception is costing a part of you, and for what? You may have gotten something out of it initially, but in hindsight it has cost you more in my opinion. It has cost you your integrity, cost you your balls, forcing you to add further lies and you having to make up stories and hide and scamper around because of the deception and watch what you're saying and who you're saying it to. Hey, I really can't relate to this sh!t on a personal level but I can only imagine the sh!t you're having to do and the scary thing IMO is that you begin to do it so matter of factly. That the lies start to come so naturally that it's now a part of who you are. Maybe you can no longer consciously distinguish between when you're lying and when you're not. Now it's a habit. Every lie subconsciously eats at you and your worth. You cry? Do you cry for them, or are you also crying for yourself? Shameful of what you've become? What would your mother think of you if she knew about what you are doing? What would your dad think? Do you have siblings? What would they, he, or she think? Would they be proud of you? Of course, I'm not sure they know or if you eould ever want them to know. Only you can answer that but if I ever somehow got myself into your situation I know I would definitely not be thinking highly of myself to say the least. My fear for you is that 10 years from now you will still be in the same situation, miserable and reminiscing about good women lost and possibly stringing along and negatively influencing other women who frankly deserve better. Past relationship mistakes have a way of coming back to haunt you. You've made mistakes we can all see and agree,it but neutralize them now while you still can. If this episode in your life comes out with a future partner, then they and you will be able to see that you finally did the right thing. If Australian is what you will pursue, she needs to know about your deception. I already laid out my rationale. If you don't, in the end it will only come back to haunt you. While we often rationalize our actions in terms of others, in the end it really affects us. Like I said, you will question whether or not she really loves you and trusts you. It's not worth it, that'll be no way to live and it will mean you are still trying to hide your tracks and your deception. That's a sure recipe for long term misery and problems. Own up to your mistakes and believe that the RIGHT and best answers will present themselves. The big question mark will be whether or not Australian can forgive you. If you both can overcome that then there may just be salvation for you and the relationship will likely come out stronger. While there may be salvation for you, it will not happen traveling the same path of deception that you have been traveling. I'm not trying to make this overly dramatic, but your actions define you, and right now there is little that is looking good IMO. The right way is clear, choose to be a man, "grow some balls", and define a new you. You put yourself in this situation and you have the ability and resources to get yourself out. Go about things the way you know and everything will fall into place as it should. Your conscience and the weight of deception you have been carrying and lugging around will clear and you will start to see things more positively. There will be less negativity in your life and you will be able to operate from a better place. Lastly, be careful of who you hang with. While by this age you should be able to direct yourself, I think your judgement is more than a little off. Don't further complicate things by potentially doing something else stupid or bringing yet another woman into the mix. In your circles it could happen quite easily and quickly and there are women who would make you look like a choir boy. Steer clear of people you know are nothing but bad news. Part of me thinks you have it in you to do what's right, both for the women and yourself but I and clearly many others are not convinced. Keep us updated. In the end, I can almost always think selfishly. For example...free these women of your deception and you free yourself from the weight and shackles you have put on yourself and the mental anguish you have and are causing yourself. There's usually or almost always a selfish angle. Think selfishly about yourself and others also benefit as well. Sound like an economic theory to you? Ok, maybe I'm pushing it?...lol.
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reader, X-treem +, writes (14 January 2011):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionTisha-1, I don't think I'm a victim. If a child hurts themself due to doing something stupid and their school teacher says, "You're a victim of your own stupidity," it means they were stupid by nature and it resulted in a negative effect on themself. It doesn't mean victim as in someone else was responsible and they deserve all sympathy.
Same when I said I'm a victim of my male basic instinct. It has a negative effect on me but it's my own nature. It's not the same as saying I'm a victim of a violent crime where they do deserve sympathy. 'Victim' has slightly different meanings depending on context so let's not pick on semantics and focus on the main content of what I said.
Thanks for your reply though and I liked your analogy!
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (14 January 2011):
 No, you're not the typical lying cheating scumbag. You are much more verbose than the usual ones.
"I am still a victim of my basic male animal instincts." Once you stop painting yourself as a victim, maybe then you'll realize that you are where you are because YOU put yourself there. No one else is responsible for your actions, not even your basic male animal instincts.
You: Doctor, I have blood come out every time I cough and my chest hurts. I also have to choose between the Silk Cut cigarettes and the Marlboro brand, and I need help deciding which brand to use.
GP: You may have lung cancer, I'm sending you to a thoracic oncology specialist today. You have to give up cigarettes!
You: Do what you can to stop the blood coming out, or maybe I'll just live with it, and maybe you have a magic pill I can take that will take care of the pain? And doctor, I think I like the Silk Cut brand better, it has better adverts and isn't as tricky to explain as the Marlboros, don't you agree?
GP: I'm also referring you to a mental health specialist. You need much more help than just the oncologist.
-----
And I leave you with a paraphrase of the words of Santayana: Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.
I expect we'll be hearing from you again. Thanks for writing, this concludes my participation in your self-created dilemma.
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reader, celtic_tiger +, writes (14 January 2011):
 I am going to ignore the majority of your follow up and focus on one particular point.
What exactly is wrong with the way Miss Australia looks?
You say :
"And this is why I have such an affinity to Australian. Physically, she's attractive, body can sort itself in time - she's on a major health kick to get in shape at the moment - but, she is also beautiful in every other way too, and this is what I know deep down I want, both for the sake of our long-lasting relationship and for my sanity and blood pressure!"
ok, so let me try and understand
1. You find her physically attractive, so you must LIKE her body?
2. Yet you seem to insist there is something terribly wrong with it that she must go on a health kick and lose weight? tone up? what? What must she do to please you?
Is she clinically obese? Or just not a skinny supermodel?
Is she a size 12, and you wish she was a size 8?
Reading thru your posts, I can honestly only see you trying to make excuses as to why she isnt pretty enough/attractive enough.
Most women are NOT perfect. Most women are NOT size 0. Most women do not have massive boobs. It is normal to have cellulite and squishy bits.
What do you expect her to look like to gain your love?
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reader, X-treem +, writes (14 January 2011):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOK, thanks so much for all your replies so far.
Firstly, airwaterearthfirebender - yes, investment banking is frankly full of idiots, not in terms of intelligence, but in terms of their stereotypical cliché mindset towards life in the fast lane of the rat race, succumbing to lifestyle obsessions and thinking "living the dream" is earning a 6-figure salary (that is good in UK money) by working crazy hours and "networking" every other night after work down the pub with moderately senior managers to try and further their careers. They are yuppies, or cityboys.
I'm guilty of some of this too to some extent, but I try to avoid the usual pitfalls of being a city worker by realising all of the above and trying to go against the grain a little bit, and do the work I do for the money and for the enjoyment of it (I do enjoy my job), without becoming a smalltalking space monkey.
In fact, my trip to Australia was helpful in this regard. Seeing the lifestyle out there made me think twice about living my life in the miserable cold weather of the UK where people are moaners and don't even realise how lucky they are in terms of society resulting in a stressful populous that care more about their social standing than just chilling out and living/loving life with a smile on their face. Being with Australian would mean moving to Australia in a few years and I can see why many people choose to emigrate there, realising there's more to life than work/money, quitting their jobs and escaping the rat race. We only live once - so we should live it!
I'm guessing you're a fan of the film Fight Club - you used a term from one of my favourite quotes which I know off by heart:
"Murder, crime, poverty -- these things don't concern me. What concerns me is celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra, Martha Stewart. F**k Martha Stewart. Martha's polishing the brass on the Titanic. It's all going down, man. So f**k off with your sofa units and Strinne green stripe patterns. I say never be complete, I say stop being perfect, I say let's evolve and let the chips fall where they may. But that's me. I could be wrong, maybe it's a terrible tragedy." - Tyler Durden (aka Brad Pitt)
And Fight Club is also very much about escaping the 9-5 rat race and lifestyle obsessions that everyone seems to be brainwashed to chase through those things it mentions in the above quote.
Anyway, digressed a little there. But, my philosophies on life are quite deep, but when it comes to women, they remain fairly shallow. I am still a victim of my basic male animal instincts. And I think I still hold looks in a disproportionately higher regard to personality. This is what I am trying to escape, and I think this is happening as I am getting older. 5 or 10 years ago, I think I would have ditched Australian without a second thought and gone with Latvian purely on looks alone. I have lost at least two fantastic girlfriends in the past that I look back and see how amazing they were personality-wise but I have let them go because I wasn't happy with something physically about them. One was way back in 1999, she was only 16 but a real sweet gem of a girl - I split up with her because her eyes slanted downwards and she was a crap kisser. The other was in 2003, a gym instructor at my workplace - fantastic body, amazing personality, but I split with her because she had bad breath and beady eyes. I told myself many times since then I will not lose a girl over such superficial things and learn to appreciate a girl more for their personality as that is ultimately what makes me fond of a girl's company when I really think about it.
So, I have listened to everyone you and others on this website have said and also my friends, and it pretty much just hammers home what I've been trying to convince myself of all these years. And this is why I have such an affinity to Australian. Physically, she's attractive, body can sort itself in time - she's on a major health kick to get in shape at the moment - but, she is also beautiful in every other way too, and this is what I know deep down I want, both for the sake of our long-lasting relationship and for my sanity and blood pressure!
However, given the situation with Latvian (with the unborn kid), and the fact I like to give everyone a chance, I e-mailed her putting it down in no uncertain terms that, based on her behaviour the night before and throughout our relationship, I am no longer able to continue the relationship unless she can mend her ways. I discussed the kid implying that I will support any decision she makes but that it may be in her interests to not have it. So, it was basically a last ditch (as it were) attempt to give her the option to try and help resolve our problems in our relationship, or have an abortion. I anticipated that, due to her stubbornness, she would be staunch and unyielding, and I indicated this in the e-mail, almost really to try and make her not be so (almost like reverse psychology); but, unfortunately, she replied unfavourably (depending which way you look at it) and failed to admit any wrongdoing on her part within the relationship opting to have an abortion instead rather than trying to fix our problems.
Ultimately, given that I was already leaning towards Australian from all the advice I've been given and my own mind, Latvian has made it much easier for me now. I laid out the ultimatum by e-mail, and she made her choice. If it had gone the other way, I think I would still be in the exact same predicament I was in a week ago. I would continue things with Latvian, yet the problems would probably not go away so soon if ever at all, and I would find it difficult to let go of Australian, and god knows where that would've led. Would I have strung Australian along right through Latvian's pregnancy and maybe even beyond!?? I bloody hope not, but maybe it's good I don't have to be tried on that!
All in all, I still know that I probably don't deserve either of them at all really. I probably should grow some balls and leave both of them to get on with their lives without me and for me to go on a soul-searching journey single and find another girl later on with a clean slate. But I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. As much as I would love to do that, there are two main things at play here: 1) I want to be with one of them (Australian now it would seem) rather than be single without either of them; 2) I care for them deeply and don't want to break their hearts, especially Australian's, and I will go to the ends of the earth to ensure this. But the problem with 2) is that it could not last forever keeping both of them happy, it was very short-termism of me, but it goes back to the first paragraph of my original question: "I thought I could handle it and that the answer would present itself by way of circumstance, but this hasn't happened and now I'm in desperate need of help."
In a way, Latvian's pregnancy has catalysed the situation. It's not a good way to get a situation resolved obviously, but maybe it was my only way out given I didn't have the balls or heart to do it any other way.
I have certainly learned from this whole episode, it's a life lesson that's for sure, and my best mate said he hopes I will learn from this. I think I will.
Tisha-1 - thanks for reading my other question, I guess you have much more of an insight into the type of person I am now! I hope you can see I am not your typical lying cheating scumbag. I just make big mistakes for misguided reasons, but my ultimate intentions are not ominous.
chigirl - please could you stop? All but your first post are argumentative and are not providing anything of value to this discussion. I got nothing from your last few posts, just you seeming to be letting off steam and assassinating my character unconstructively.
In conclusion, I thank everyone for all their replies so far and I'll keep you updated with developments. Thank you all so much for taking the time to read my situation and help me out - I really hope you got something from it too.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 January 2011): I'll save the lecture. *sighs*
I think if you go with the Australian is the better choice. She sounds sounds like such a sweet girl. She'll be faithful throughout. She deserves better though...
& I think the other woman in your life is probably doing the same to you as you are doing to her.
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reader, faenon  +, writes (12 January 2011):
 Im with angelDlite on this one at 30-35 it's about time you start manning up and being upfront to both ladies they aren't the only one in the equation and let them decide what they want to do instead of self pity and 'crying' over who's heart your going to break.......
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reader, angelDlite +, writes (12 January 2011):
you may think that all your problems will be over as soon as Latvian gets an abortion, but a word of caution: just a thought: i don't think this situation will actually just simply die down with the death of the baby and you will be able to settle down with the Aussie, if that is what you fancy doing (today!). not giving you an ear bashing as i know you are getting sick to death of the repetitiveness, but isnt this repetitiveness telling you something??: we have ALL advised you that you need to man up and come clean to both girls and then see what THEY want to do! it is like putting something to a vote in a way, everyone involved here has 'voted' the exact same way but you've just gone, 'nah,don't care what the overwhelming majority (of people who I HAVE ACTUALLY ASKED FOR THEIR OPINION) say. i'm betting any subsequent posts added will advise you the same way as we have. if you don't want the unbiased opinion of strangers, don't come on here asking for it. quite simple really.
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (12 January 2011):
Hey, I just read your other question: http://www.dearcupid.org/question/after-everything-she-has-done-to-me-is.html and had one more comment. This supports my assessment that you are not good at evaluating whether a woman is compatible match for you. You seem to be blinded to certain personality traits by the physical appearance of the woman.
I'd suggest if you find yourself single, after being left by Ms. A, then you should find a dating service that does matches based on personality and compatibility testing. Maybe investing in a high-quality, well-known and recommended matchmaking service now would save you a lot of heartache later.
And go back to your therapist and ask him (or her) the question you've asked here. You appear to be highly sensitive yet you continue to put yourself in situations that virtually guarantee heartache and trouble. Why is that? That's what you should be working on, not whether or not to try to stick it out with Ms. A or Ms. L.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 January 2011): I honestly think that you are expecting miracles here. I agree with Tishas take on your dram filled life.
I think proper counselling by the professionals is the only answer.
LoveGirl
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (12 January 2011):
I haven't taken the time to read every single post here, but I have a couple of thoughts to share for your forward planning purposes. First, you're in this situation because you put yourself in this situation. Obviously, you are aware of that, I am belaboring the point. But the way you got to your current tangle of issues was by lying, prevaricating, and hiding things. You appear to think that the way forward is following the same path.
Losing the lies now, being honest with the women might be beyond your capabilities, but it certainly would wipe away the detritus. You'd have come clean with Ms. A and she would have the choice of staying with you or not. Eventually, you realize, enough of your circle has met Ms. L and the news will reach her. It would be prudent for you to manage the news, rather than have her find it out a year from now and dump you then. It would also give Ms. A a chance to deal with the weight issue.
I actually think you are a poor judge of women, as it pertains to their suitability as a mate for yourself. One of the truisms of losing weight and buying clothing is never to buy a garment that doesn't fit you at that moment. Your Ms. A may lose some of the weight, but it's fairly clear that hormonal birth control has an effect on her body and it's likely she'll continue to be heavier than you'd like going forward. She also doesn't have the sex drive that matches yours. All the stellar personality traits in the world won't make up for those two in a marriage. In your eyes, she's going to continue to be fat in your eyes and a sexual dud. That's a recipe for a very boring marriage and a lifetime of resentment. A poor choice, no matter how much you say you care for her.
Ms. L, well, you've already figured out that you had sex on the first date with a beautiful drama queen. Then you continued to have sex with her, apparently unsheathed. Another poor choice.
You present the situation as having to make a choice between the women, as if Ms. A and Ms. L are the only two possible candidates. You also claim to be highly stressed and crying a great deal. You want some miraculous advice that will right this, make an 'aha!' moment for yourself and extricate yourself from the hole you've dug for yourself. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
Sometimes in life, we have to make choices that will cause some shortterm pain but that ultimately will make us healthier. Take for example, a cancer diagnosis. You have a teeny tiny little tumor that isn't actually bothering you all that much and it would be much easier to ignore it and hope it goes away. That is not, of course, the prudent course. Someone who hopes to live a long healthy life would make the difficult decision to undergo treatment for this tumor. They would have surgery, which is painful, followed by chemotherapy, which causes nausea, hairloss and other nasty side effect, and finally possibly radiation, which causes localized tissue damage. So in this case, the treatment seems to much worse than the actual disease. Of course, if you ignore the tumor and it spreads to the bones and liver and brain, it might take a short time or a longer time, but ultimately, you'd wind up a hell of a lot sicker and with even fewer treatment options and an extremely poor prognosis. It's not fair, it's not nice, but that's the choice you're facing.
You have to suffer some short-term emotional trauma, inflict some short-term emotional trauma on someone you claim to care about, but at the end of the day, you really don't have much of a choice. You simply are postponing the inevitable by refusing to come clean.
Finally, as you go forward, I would recommend that you use barrier methods of birth control. Yes, that means a condom. You appear to select fertile women and have some proven success as an impregnator, so continuing to have sex without one... well, you're a smart guy, you work it out.
Just because you've been a lying scumbag in the past doesn't mean you have to continue to be one. For a guy with a high tolerance for risk, you seem to be clutching at the known, the familiar with a great deal of energy. That being said, there is yet another saying that seems to apply here, that continuing to do the same thing yet expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Are you truly the rational being you portray? Because I think you are a bullshit artist. And I think you think you're going to get out of this quagmire by applying more bullshit. You're just going to wind up in deeper, muddier manure.
Just tell the truth, take the consequences and start with a clean slate. Take your medicine.
Good luck.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (12 January 2011):
Never mind, I guess this is a lost cause as you don't understand what we've been telling you. And no you obviously do not understand what you have done wrong or you'd not be on here complaining and plotting, you'd be out there breaking up with the both of them and getting your life back in shape.
You think this is just some strangers trying to push some bad medicine down your throat. Or that I write this now because I've got some personal issue with you or the world. That's your problem right there. You haven't once in your post tried to justify it? Well you haven't once in your post owned up to it either, all you have is lengthy explanations of why the world is cruel to you. "I don't want this" "I don't wanna hear that" "Stop saying that" "You don't know me" "You're just strangers online" etc. etc. etc.
What exactly have you been saying in all these long replies? I will sum it for you, and this is what you repeat over and over: "I don't want to take responsibility and I want to continue being the one I've been, and next time I land in this issue again I will ask you for more help, so thank you all for the constructive feedback on things I do not ever intend to do. And please don't tell me what Im doing wrong, I already know, and have no intention of actually fixing it. I just wanna know how to slip out of THIS situation, I don't want to worry about what everything else looks like or how to lead my life from here so I don't end up like this again".
If Im wrong, please give me an update on what you have actually done and how you view relationships from here, as well as answer my question: are you afraid that if you are honest with a woman she will not accept you?
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reader, X-treem +, writes (12 January 2011):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionchigirl, keep arguing what? If you mean the errors of my ways, I don't. I haven't once in my replies tried to justify it.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (12 January 2011):
If you know already why do you keep arguing it?
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reader, X-treem +, writes (12 January 2011):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionchigirl, the reason I don't want to hear any more ear bashing is not because it upsets me, it's because it's repetitive and not providing anything further that is constructive or useful. I already know all this, so if your aim is to make me understand my errors through punishment by ear bashing, save it - I know already. If your aim is to shove your opinion down my throat and vent your own frustrations or anger at my situation, find another target as this isn't the place. To me, you're all strangers, and I already know the immorality of my situation, so random usernames on the internet hammering this home to me is pointless. I'm not getting upset by the online ear bashing on here or not taking it like a man, I just don't want the right-hand pane of this page filled with the same unconstructive repetitive ear bashing that everyone including myself has to read through before they actually get to the useful constructive advice. And please don't tell me not to reply to your reply, it kind of defeats the point of an online discussion.
Sorry to sound brash here, but you kind of did exactly what I requested not to do, and for good reason - it's pointless and repetitive. I hope you understand. I do know what I've done is wrong, I think I've conveyed that enough, all I need now from here is advice, not to be further told what I have already acknowledged numerous times by people who are more about letting off steam than about giving a toss about me.
airwaterearthfirebender, thanks for your lengthy reply again, very useful, I'll reply properly later to that. You seem to understand my situation very well. My best friend has been reading your replies too (the chartered accountant I mentioned), and he's impressed with your insightful advice!
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reader, chigirl +, writes (12 January 2011):
I know you don't want ear bashing, but what did you honestly expect? That we would all sympathize with you and feel sorry for you? The ear bashing you get is for your own good, so you wont land in this situation again or do unjustice to any more women. This isn't just about you, I beg you understand that. The world doesn't revolve around you, and no one deserves to get cheated on, not even you. So please honour and respect your girlfriends from now on. Try to be a bit more humble as well, you stand here like you are proud to be a cheater and deserve every woman on earth, you just ooze of it. Especially when you act like you don't deserve to hear any ear bashing.
Take it like a man. Stop arguing it. You screwed up, this is what you get, and no you do not get to close your ears and say "I dont wanna hear it, I dont wanna hear it". If you didn't want to hear it then don't cheat. Now be a man and take responsibility for your actions, which includes tolerating ear bashing. God knows you have made others put up with a shit load more from you! Im just tired of hearing you cry and complain. You are getting help. But yes it WILL be mixed with moral judgment. The sooner you grow up and start realizing that your actions have consequences the better.
And just to give you a taste of what you are saying yourself: do not reply to this posting saying you didn't need to hear it. I don't need to hear one more complaint from you. Neither do the rest of us. We're here for you, happy to help. But stop complaining about the help you're getting. Because WE don't want to hear it.
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reader, X-treem +, writes (12 January 2011):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionTo the last replier who was anonymous: I think you mistakenly think Canary Wharf is the main tower known as OCS (One Canada Square). Canary Wharf is actually a large area consisting of many many companies and lots of large as well as small office buildings. And over 90,000 people work here. So, I don't think anyone would be interested in this random personal problem. Trust me, there is much more interesting scandal in investment banking than mine that has nothing to do with work directly. And my low-res avatar picture hardly identifies me.
That irrelevant issue aside, I sent Latvian an e-mail this morning regarding our phone argument last night and gave her the option of sorting out our problems proactively, or ending it. She chose the latter and is going for an abortion referral tomorrow. I am now happy with this as, based on all the advice here and from friends as well as Latvian's uncouth response to my e-mail, I definitely want to be with Australian. I would certainly be with Latvian through the abortion to support her, but I don't think she'll want this anyway.
Now, please can everyone not ear bash me, it isn't achieving anything other than satisfying your own venting needs - I already know the errors of my ways in this situation, I'm just after good constructive advice on here, not a load of flak from strangers. Thanks for all advice so far though, it has certainly been very helpful.
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reader, airwaterearthfirebender +, writes (12 January 2011):
Hi X-stream, thanks for your response and clarifications on locations. It's funny how you mention you're now in investment banking, that was almost my first career until I realized the type of characters in that field. Let's just say a little lacking in the integrity department to say the least but very industrious. Of course that is a generalization but there is truth to it, a lot of folks doing often shady things but projecting that they are full of integrity...good money though, right? You sell a bit of your soul if you have one, but I digress...lol. If it's anything like Toronto, Canada then I know you're working some crazy hours...yet you've still managed to work in there these relationships.
In terms of my description of you, it was clear that I have no idea what you look like and the description I gave was a play based upon what I know of you and what I imagined you looked like based on your actions. In my description, the point I was making that on paper you are not looking too good. Even if you looked like Brad Pitt, your actions tell another story. I think you can agree that when you 'hear' of a cheater many imagine a snake. While you were sizing up the women in your original post, I don't recall you giving any particulars about yourself. I thought it was only fair.
While we all 'size up' a partner, whether we realize it or not, (people who say they don't frankly I would think them a bit delusional and question their self-awareness, but I digress, if people don't like hearing that then that's fine, just acknowledge that, but don't bend reality into you believing it is something that it is not...we all judge, everyday, all the time, people who think differently probably should read into how the brain works. Finally, just because you don't verbalize a judgement doesn't mean you were not judging.)
So you're at least a tad vain. I will be the first to say I am in the same camp. Looks do matter to a degree. Sure they fade, but ugly looks also fade, at that point we can say we're on a spectrum. Anyone who says looks don't matter at all, frankly I don't believe them. One way or another they rationalize it away based on their opportunity or views. Humans take in the vast majority of our reality through our eyes and/or vision...period. We are visual creatures plain and simple. Of course, what you find attractive is not necessarily the same as what others may find attractive. And of course there are quite a few who will find differences attractive.
The one thing I won't do though is slam someone based on looks. The way I see it the majority of our looks were biologically given...we did not have a choice there. But we do have a choice in how we maintain what we were given. So yeah, if you're diet consists of sloppy joes every single day and now you look like a pillsbury dough boy, you're going to be judged a little harsher. That doesn't mean I won't be sympathetic and/or understanding of what may be driving such action but at some level you need to take ownership. Every day you made choices to get your hand to pick up a sloppy Joe to bring it to your mouth time after time and so on and so on.
What perturbed me (and possibly others) is not so much you were sizing up the meat (sure a little crass but factual but as I said above we all do it), but that you are doing it while being involved with the both of them at the same time because of the deception you're pulling and as you know that's just not right YET you still seem to want to rationalize that what you're doing is alright. You do not have that right...period...and you've only managed it because of your deception. While you say you acknowledge your wrongdoing that has no bearing on what you're actually doing...your actions. Let's face it, if everything was alright up in moral land up in your brain then you wouldn't be in this 'predicament', right? Dude, I know the type of people you roll with, chances are they work hard and party harder with a lot of shady behavior in between. I think you also implied this reading between the lines. There are probably some negative influences there to say the least and now you're just adding to it.
So anyway, back to the Aussie. The difference here with her is that you played a big role in the reason she may have gained some weight and the distress from the abortion. I mean dude, that she even had to endure an abortion in itself is so f'ed up and it no doubt has impacted her and her body image and of course now your attraction to her. This is where stupid mistakes come back to haunt you. Chances are her weight gain and problems would not have occurred had she not experienced the abortion. No woman should have to experience that. Now this was not just someone you were dating. You referred to her as a diamond. You owed her more than this and you did not give her more time. But so is the nature of investment banking, right?, if not this deal then onto the next deal etc.
My original advice still holds. You need to come clean with these women. But that doesn't jive with your ego, and the investment banking suit facade that you project and/or need to project. Sure, you may want to time the market in terms of your disclosure (pardon the pun) but it only serves you and not the women. You are the maestro in this grand deception and the giver and provider of information. You retain for yourself the power when frankly you are the one who should be powerless. The Latvian may be a bitch but she is likely more genuine than you. You have not suggested any faults in their past. Will disclosing the truth come back to roost with your job? Is that a fear of yours? Or affect your reputation? I can appreciate that. But if not, then what is your issue with letting the chips fall where they may? Now with Aussie you're contemplating some delay and cover up tactic? I will reiterate that she has a right to know about your infidelity. If she really sees you as something then she will still stand by you but frankly you will need to prove to her that you truly are worthy. But I sense you don't want to do that. Hell no, you would be knowingly putting yourself in a position of powerlessness and showing your hand. This is where a relationship is not a business proposition. This is where truth, honesty, and integrity need to be not some artificial, manufactured reality.
Dude, you want to continue playing your game and lying to these women, and especially the Aussie who you may actually have a future with, then that's up to you. You will be living a fraud. You will consciously and/or subconsciously wonder whether she truly accepts you. It will burn at you and you will probably never have a truly accepting relationship with her because of fhe truths you will harbor. You will probably find a way to mess it up again because of your fundamental insecurity.
Why would you want this? Unless of course you're a true sociopath and your cheating is symptomatic of some more serious underlying issues with yourself. Perhaps you know you will be a serial cheater and one woman just won't satisfy you. Hey, that's what you start to learn when you play the field. Every second person has a vagina, is it really that special you start to tell yourself (whether you realize it or not)?
In a way you're tying to escape the consequences of your actions. You want to avoid giving Aussie that right. You're fooling yourself into thinking you're considering her feelings. You're going to give her the watered down version of reality, what I like to call the shady truths, when you see fit. Aussie is an autonomous human being with her own brain X-streem. You don't have to think for her. Do you really think that lowly of her? Then perhaps you are somewhat deluding yourself about your affection for her? Why not give Aussie the choice to decide for herself whether or not she thinks you're still worthy when she gets a load of your true colors? Would your ego be able to handle that? You don't like the thought of being a failure and/or a failure in her eyes? Maybe part of you thinks she really is not worthy, because she has yet to even have an inkling of your cheating ways? If she was smarter and not as trusting of you then she should have at least sensed something? It's your right to cheat if you can't get caught? Perhaps you are a master of deception?
One more thing, if the truth does begin to come out later while you two are more entrenched (possibly married and with kids), then I think you will be setting yourself and mainly her up for a lot of pain. Just look up 'sexual past' to get some examples of this. I have responded to a few such questions. If you don't deal with this now and/or soon before any further developments then you could be setting up things to be much worse later on. She may start to wonder a whole lot more about you that may simply not be true. She may begin to wonder how many times you cheated, with who, why, when and the list may go on forever. At the core of all this is that she will not trust you and she will not be able to reconcile that with being in a relationship and possibly married and/or having children with you. Would you blame her or anyone at that point? I'm telling you...don't do it. It'll only f the both of you up. Do what you know is right you will be better off longer term. Think of the long term potential profits and not just the day trading profits.
Worse comes to worse, she ditches you...no doubt tough, but a good humbling will serve you well and give you a better balanced perspective. I mean if you found out she was playing you in this fashion, how would take it? Maybe you won't find out until 7 years from now, a marriage, and 1.8 kids later? Think about that. Put yourself In her shoes and see how they fit
If you do lose her then of course you will again be free to have future relationships but probably a good idea to take it slow. You have a lot going for you so I'm sure you won't have a problem in that department as long as you choose a different path than the way you have been taking.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 January 2011): If you're really that clever and professional in your job, why would you name the place where you work and have a picture of you on this site. Surely this story printed out with your photo sent in a viral email round your work place (yes everyone knows how huget hte tower is, but indeed when emails go viral they stretch far) Maybe if your boss or colleagues were to learn of your uncaring, despicable attitude, you would lose credibility. With your reputation somewhat scarred, maybe you would actually take time to think about what you have done, that two lives have been affected. And that you owe it to them both to tell them why you weren't there when they needed them ,or on saturday you couldn't see them because of a work commitment when really it was because you were seeing the other one of the pair. Even if the Latvian gets the abortion and you don't choose to stay with her (not like I think that you have the right to choose, as I think that they should choose whether to stay with you after all you've done), you should still be there for her to cope with the after abortion trauma. THe bleeding and the psychological damage that it will do to her , you need to be there for that.
To be honest, it doesn't sound that either of them truly have your heart anyway.
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reader, X-treem +, writes (12 January 2011):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionairwaterearthfirebender, wow - thanks for taking the time to write such a long post. That is quite an investment for someone you do not know and, I know it was also to partly benefit other members of the website and to vent some of your frustrations with my situation, but I feel truly honoured that you put such thought into my situation to help me.
Firstly though - I should point out that a lot of what you said is factually incorrect - I know this is because my account does not contain every detail and leaves a lot to assumption, but I should probably clarify these points as they are obviously relevant points if they are being used in answers.
Australian and Latvian are both UK residents - there is no long-distanceness at all about these relationships. We all live and work in London. Australian has been here for 1.5 years, Latvian for over 5 years. I am not a Scotsman, I was born in Wigan, Lancashire (near Manchester) and am half-English and half-Mauritian.
Your description of my looks is totally off the mark. I'm naturally olive-skinned, work out, athletic build and certainly not meek-looking - I worked part-time as a stripper years ago (I'm sure this will gain a raft of stereotyping remarks now) alongside my graduate job as a software developer for Nokia followed by the secret service. I am now an investment banker for one of the top three investment banks in the world and work in Canary Wharf, London - the hub of the financial sector in the UK. Not the kind of place that takes unintelligent meek-looking snakes I assure you.
I understand that my situation on the face of it would unsurprisingly result in the ear-bashing I've had so far, and it's difficult for me to put into words my entire life and personality in a few short paragraphs so that you can have the viewpoint and perspective of my friends. But, all of my friends who are privy to my situation have remained my friends and are supportive of me and some have even had to lie for me - not because they too are all lying cheating douchebags, but because they are aware of every aspect of my situation and me as a person. And they are a complete spectrum of people from all different backgrounds - a chartered accountant, a British Airways captain, IT professionals, uni student, recruitment specialist, customer services manager, etc. And I can count at least 15 of my friends who have met BOTH Australian and Latvian, 7 of them female.
I know this means nothing in itself without me elaborating, but I hope it can indicate that there is a lot more to me and my situation and how I got into it than I can outline on here. And I say this because I don't want to try and defend myself on every single point you've made - many of them I agree with, many I don't - as I don't want to end up in a verbose debate about morals and ethics, birds and bees, animal instincts, women being from Venus, men being from Mars, the principles of lust, etc. etc.
On the 'penis into vagina' aspects you keep mentioning, since I met Latvian nearly 5 months ago, I have only had sex with Australian once, possibly twice. As well as the passion being lost, I can't bring myself to do it with her while I'm with Latvian. And, yes, I should have ended it with Australian before engaging with Latvian at all, I don't dispute this - but that's not where I'm at right now, and this is why I have "shamelessly" (as you put it) sought advice for my current situation.
Anyway, thank you for all of your input, I hope my response above addresses much of what you said either opposingly or agreeingly. I pointed a couple of my closest friends to this page and based on what they have said and also the responses on here and some pondering myself, I am beginning to see that Australian is probably the direction I should be going. I take on board all comments that I deserve neither of them, and I've even said to Australian numerous times (without revealing why) that I don't deserve her. But, if I had to be with one, she would probably be it. I had an argument on the phone with Latvian again last night. She became very demanding and controlling asking me to "do things or else" kind of stuff, and I brought her up on it and (unsurprisingly given how she's been in the past) she became hostile, irrational and started playing games. She even used the unborn child against me saying it would have Latvian citizenship and there's nothing I can do about it, etc. The conversation ended with us agreeing to an abortion (she suggested it, I was happy to agree!). Knowing her ways, I know that this is a game to make me come crawling to her and she wants more than anything to have this baby with me, but I must succumb to her woes and pander to her where necessary. In the past, she has admitted deliberately punishing me so that I "know what it feels like". And what is she referring to you might ask - what is she punishing me for? Well, it could be as much as due to changing plans to see her because I am extremely tired due to working late and having very little sleep the night before (for good reason, NOT due to socialising or anything), or due to not having food for her in the fridge for when she comes over (this is what it was over last night believe it or not!).
Meanwhile, Australian has been sweet as pie the past couple of days since we got back from Australia despite me continuing to suggest a possible break between us. She has continually been mature and rational about everything, and very understanding (albeit the fact she doesn't know the half of it).
I'm not sure how the next few days will pan out now, but the more I think and write about it, the more I feel towards letting Latvian go and encouraging the abortion, and trying to make things work with Australian, which I know they can do if I try, and I change some of my attitudes. I don't know if I will ever reveal what I've done - I think I may tell her one day that I cheated on her without going into depth (like I won't say it was a 5-month relationship). On the looks side, and I know this sounds shallow, but it formed part of my original question, she's admitted to feeling like an ugly fat galumph, and her New Year's resolution is to sort this out, which I know she can do as she did it years ago when she put on weight while with her ex and got thin again after. Please don't flame me because of this paragraph - I know how important it is to women to look and feel good, and they want to do it for their partners, and for good reason too - so please don't start with the sanctimonious BS on how I should forget about looks/body and think about the "person inside". No girl I know has settled for a 20-stone man no matter how big his heart (or pacemaker) is.
Once again, I thank everyone for their replies so far - the ear bashing isn't necessary, I already know all this from my own mind and from friends, much less strangers. Good constructive criticism and advice is all I need from DearCupid and I am most appreciative of any I can get right now. Thank you all again.
X-treem
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 January 2011): I think you may have npd or something very close to that. I would seek professional help and try to figure out why you have put yourself in this crazy place and why you prefer to damage other people to satisfy your ego instead of to have a true interaction. If one of these women does end up with you I feel sorry for her, but I have a feeling they will not want you when they know the truth.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 January 2011): Please choose your course based on integrity and honor and not on what will benefit you the most.
I'm sorry but I don't think you have the moral or ethical right to choose either woman because you have deceived and manipulated them both and brought an innocent baby into the picture. Whichever one you choose will be the wrong decision.
Leave both women and pay child support. Close this chapter on your life and resolve to be a better person to the next woman you come across.
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reader, celtic_tiger +, writes (11 January 2011):
I just want to add something to this - you have already been given a deserved ear bashing for your behaviour and you do deserve more, but here is not the time or place.
Have you thought that the Latvian may have other motives?
You admit yourself, you signed up to a dating website. You didnt contact anyone, she contacted you. You have been together for 5 months and now she is pregnant. I assume you took precautions? Rather convenient isnt it.
Are you 100% sure she IS pregnant, and this is not some clever scheme to entrap you and get a British passport and/or Benefits?
Stranger things have happened.
You may well have got yourself into far more than you realise. Its time to stop thinking with your penis and start looking at this from a grown up point of view.
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reader, airwaterearthfirebender +, writes (11 January 2011):
I'm with chigirl on this one. Frankly, I'd probably be worse.
If I was a friend of yours, I probably wouldn't be once I found this out about you. Moreso, I'd probably consider getting in touch the Australian, only because she is no longer pregnant with your child and is on another continent. Then she would confront you with it and you can then choose to fess up and/or continue on the same path of lying your face off.
And one more thing before continuing and I'm trying to not make this response get rejected due to profanity, but you knocking up the Australian and her having an abortion wasn't a wake up call to you? You've only complicated your own messed up situation and potentially that of a child. So what gives? Are you a little dense in this area as well?
You are trying to decide but the point here that you dont see because of your own personally skewed viewpoint is that you don't deserve either woman. While you know you're being a self-admitted douche, you for some reason think you still have a right to choose between these two women and sizing them up like they are sides of beef with the addition of a personality.
As a personal side note...lol...douches like you make guys like me look like a superstar. I mean, there has to be some reason why I come here and take the time to respond but I'm going to give it to you as straight-up and uncensored as possible.
You gave your descriptions of these women, I'm going to give you one based on what we know of you...let me know how you like it and what you think of yourself and what you will attract:
- Male, hailing from somewhere in Northern England or Scotland. Currently giving a bad name to Scotsmen abroad.
- A liar, deceiver, and cheater of women.
- Self-admitted scumbag who acknowledges his behavior yet still believes he has the right to choose between women currently under his deceit. Currently showing sociopathic symptoms and behaviors and a perspective and a contemplated course of action that fails to address his fundamental flaws and recent relationship decisions including cheating on and impregnating two women unbeknownst to the other.
- Shameless attempt at getting advice considering self-admitted doucheness and failure to heed similar advice from true friends who apparently called the situation straight-up yet he still is looking for a personally satisfying response accepting of his current behavior lacking in moral and ethical judgment and the creation of long term satisfaction.
- Questionable intelligence and recklessness considering he has on more than one occasion gotten multiple women pregnant when no such choice was formally made.
- Questionable self-esteem considering he feels the need to deceive and string along multiple women. Desire for sex and sexual relations overpowers all needs of longer term companionship and
- Looks department? Not entirely known. Based on personality, likely a meek looking and slinky fellow reminiscent of a snake. Consequently, bone structure is not well defined and looking for bone structure in a mate or mates that will compensate for personally lacking bone structure.
- Looks and personality combination considered weak as distant travel has been required to deceive women abroad thereby masking personal deficits as a result of cultural and linguistic differences. Potential local partners likely see such weaknesses and avoid relations.
- When the going gets tough, x-streem gets going...literally...lol. What you say? You've gained a few pounds, well prepare for x-streem to pick up and go in part for things that he helped happen to you...like you having gotten an abortion (this in itself sickens me but that's a topic unto itself.
- Potential ray of hope? Capable of some reflection based on feelings of causing pain and regret. But choices yet to be made and current contemplated course of action fails to address the situation with integrity and respect for all involved. Choices made here will either continue par for the course and/or define a new character, a new way, that speaks to integrity, values, and transparency. A way that chooses to avoid lying to others and ultimately oneself and avoiding by the time when it is too late (and you're too old) the realization that one has chosen to live a lie.
As others and chigirl have mentioned, you clearly are far from being some specimen of a man who has been anointed with this choice of women and the power to decide their fates.
Get over yourself, your ego is far too big, only overpowered by your ability to deceive. Clearly some serious flaws in you (which you may be able to right by your actions going forward). Perhaps you dropped on your head as a child and your mother didn't love you, whatever the case, these women deserve better than the likes of you merely on principle.
And don't get me wrong. The women you have managed to deceive thus far are not 100% innocent in my books either, showing some serious flaws in themselves as well. I'm certain I could be here all day writing them down but here are few:
1. You're from another country. Same way I slam you for looking beyond your home and country so I do them. They took their chances going for someone the likes of you and are victims of your deception as we readers now know. As a result, I question their motives and their desperation. And frankly, I question their smarts. Long distance relationships just lend themselves much more easily to abuses of various kinds.
2. That they've let you get away with it thus far. Again, I question their smarts. I mean, sure I'm all in for wanting love and love ever after and a myriad of delusions that men like you play on buy WTF, does that mean all notions and concepts of trying to verify who and what you're getting involved with go out the window? Shame on you for your douchebaggery and shame on them for allowing it and taking you at face value. It has obviously cost them large and/or will be costing them large.
3. Sexual relations. Of course, had this not been involved and the absolute stupidity in regards to birth control tells me there is stupidity all around. What type of woman would allow themselves to get pregnant out of wedlock and out of a committed relationship when it clearly appears to have been by 'accident'? There is no accident at all here, you put penis in vagina then nature makes a baby. It's not rocket science. The only dummies are the operators. So while we've already established you're a douche, these women are severely lacking in certain respects as well and in this particular point is them firstly having sexual relations with a douche such as yourself and secondly having gotten pregnant as a result (especially if it was not by choice and/or deceptive choice on the part of your 'girlfriends'). I mean WTF, you are all old enough to know better, not some teenie boppers engaging in stuff they haven't the slightest clue about which they are getting involved in addition to not having anywhere near the resources, skills, and development to handle the potential consequences of their actions.
Slight tangent and I have gone off on this in one of my other responses and that is women HAVE to hold themselves in higher regard. Yes, there is a double standard. There's a reason women are the ones more commonly deemed sluts and whores and it comes down to biological fact, that women are the keepers of procreation, plain and simple. Women are the keepers, the buck stops with women. Consequently, if I was a female do you think I would let any dick in me? Do you think I would let any guy put their penis in me the first time we ever met and I have no clue who this person is, what their health is like, and/or what they stand for, and/or if they can support a child, and/or if I am satisfied about their character and the level of commitment they have shown? Case in point, you're from another country. Let's ignore the fact that you're also a cheating douche, they knew enough about you but they still engaged in sexual relations in one case immediately. IMO, they have to an extent reaped what they have sowed. Had they simply not engaged in sex with you and/or waited much longer then I am most certain you would not have been able to play your cheating game. You would have left and/or not been interested and you would have been seen as NOT long term relationship material. Time and/or waiting in the sexual department is all that is needed for women to
separate many of the scumbags from the real men. Have sex too early and the women lose that ability...and the scumbags remain, then people wonder about all the dysfunctional people, relationships, and marriages in our time of fleeting morality and values. I'm a guy and I waited a long time before first being intimate with my SO. Do you think I wasn't attracted to her and didn't want to f the living daylights out of her every time I heard, looked, saw, thought, of her etc. from practically the first time we ever met? Damn straight, and I still do to this day but I first wanted to know who she was, what she represented, and whether she would make a good long term partner and not to mention she did not feel pressured to have sex, quite the contrary in that regard but I digress, back to your reality.
I'm not so sure on the Aussie but the Latvian had sex with you the first time she saw you. I'm not going into it with the exception of saying that it tells me a lot about her and definitely not the type of woman I'd want, but hey, to each their own, free love, free sex, party on!!!
Anyway, I'll stop it there on your girlfriends' character and try to end this off with some actionable suggestions. So here goes:
1. Acknowledge you're a douche and decide whether you're going to continue being a cheating lying scumbag whore or if you're going to change your ways. While you may or may not be a true scumbag to the bone, so to speak and/or there is really no changing your spots, I will end with the more optimistic outlook that you have choice...a choice to cease your recent ways and become a better person...and return honor to all Scotsmen abroad...lol. My addition suggestions will choose the high road.
2. Cease sexual relations with both women. You 'hear'? Stop putting your penis in their vaginas, even if they do not have the sense and especially since you have yet to read my third suggestion, they may finally not want to...lol.
3. You need to come clean with your cheating ways to both women. Give them the choice to either want to work things out or not with you. If they are smart, they will run and kick you to the curb faster than white on rice. But, I am a firm believer that there is someone for everyone, even some one like you and your current practice of douchebaggery. If both of them, for whatever wacked out and messed up reason still want to work with you , then, and only then do you have right to your current 'predicament'. But no matter your choice I still will not think favorably on your long term sustainability with either woman because of the way you acted.
3. No matter what happens to your thoughts of the Latvian, you are financially responsible if she decides to have the child and you owe her that at a minimum.
4. If I didn't think you were a total douche I would say from what you've given that you are more compatible with the Aussie and I figure your cultures and families would be better suited to one another. Of course, out of your absolute stupidity, you ended up knocking up the Latvian who you were just using for the sex which is not entirely reprehensible because she was a willing participant. Logistically, both women are far with the Latvian closer, but either way if any of these women are going to be long term then where will you both end up living? One more complication because of these abroad relations.
To end this off aside from your messed up predicament which is entirely your creation, I think it is also a choice into what type of character you really are. Are you a man who will own up and deal with consequences? Or will you remain a lying, cheating scumbag?
To me these are rhetorical questions buy I am also wise enough that my conscious is my own and that there are many a flawed conscious on this planet that perhaps cannot be helped, especially if the will to dare I say be a better person is not there. Do you think that your issue with the Aussie was a reason to stray? Then you truly are a weak man because you have yet to fathom the depths that many a real relationship goes through before the opportunity to see that brighter light you so hope is there.
The way I see it, if you ignore all advice here and from friends and end up living long term and possibly marrying one of these women, I wonder how you'll be able to live with yourself if you don't come clean with them. I think this is a fundamental requirement for all involved but mostly for you. This is where being selfish makes all logical and practical sense.
If you do proceed and harbor this lie with either of these women, then I am almost certain that you will do something and/or find a way to sabotage the marriage yet again whether you are conscious of it or not. Should the truth of the past come out later, then the relationship will be in a world of hurt and she may not be able to accept you any longer. The fact that you cry and feel pain tells me you know it will be there. If you can hide such a truth to your grave then perhaps you may in fact be a true sociopath. You may also have a stepchild, if you hide that, then it would be even more despicable to not acknowledge a child, having to hide him/her from your current partner.
Believe me, come clean, it will be liberating for you and free you of the shackles and the false facade you've put on yourself. As the Aussie no longer is pregnant, there is nothing connecting her to you any longer. Put your inflated scumbag ego aside and let her decide if you are worthy of her. She may make the decision you thought was yours to make for you. And if she wisely decides to say goodbye to you, then she will hurt no doubt, but she will heal and you will become nothing more than a memory to her. At that point, apologize for the error of your ways and say that under the circumstances you will not initiate any contact going forward. If she contacts you then you will know she is making a conscious decision to contact you. Buy give her time so as to not influence her and under no circumstance have any sexual relations with her until some time has passed and you both are on solid ground and have a good idea of what type of future you both will be having.
If both the women kick you to the curb, then power to them and you will hopefully be the wiser going forward. While I wouldn't necessarily offer your entire past to future potential partners, I would tell them the truth if they ask. Again, you want someone who can accept you for you with the understanding that not all us are perfect. In this way you will be able live without having the weight of lies on your conscience. Of course, if you are a true sociopath, then this response has been a waste for you but still possibly insightful for many other readers.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 January 2011): Listen, you cannot resolve this without hurting someone. If you Lat. girlfriend has an abortion you will then have had two girlfriends who have had abortions. Get a grip. Your love life is a mess. I think, whichever girl you choose - you will wonder if you made the right choice. In a way you can not win. That is your dilema. In the meantime, these girls wait to be selected on their qualities. I feel for them.
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reader, Serpico +, writes (11 January 2011):
Bottom line - you have a child on the way. Any thoughts of what YOU want and what YOU prefer are now secondary if not meaningless.
Man up and take responsibility for your actions. You are about to be a father and you are still acting like a school boy.
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reader, X-treem +, writes (11 January 2011):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for all your replies so far. I note that they're all from female readers so far, so I suppose I fully deserve some of the flak I've had so far, but please rest assured, I am fully aware of how immoral and potentially destructive and hurtful the current situation/my actions are. Now, it's more about damage control, to try and resolve the situation where it's at now with minimal collateral damage.
One thing I think I need to let everyone know is that abortion of the baby is probably an option. If I end it with Latvian, she won’t keep it, and it’s still very early so it would be a routine procedure for her physically. Emotionally/mentally could be another matter though and of course I’m conscious of that.
mystiquek – your grandmother’s quote is very useful and something I’ve already thought about – “Looks fade, but a pure true heart beats forever”. Thing is, you are all correct in many ways from the point of view of Latvian/ Australian. That’s exactly what Latvian/Australian would think if they knew and they both know me very well unlike everyone on here. I messed up getting Latvian pregnant I think –I never appreciated the gravity of this, but if it didn’t happen, my deepest emotions would not have surfaced so as to reassess everything with them both. So, in a way, Latvian getting pregnant may be the catalyst to resolve this one way or another once and for all. If I take abortion out of the equation, then k_c100’s answer is a very good one! I spoke to Australian earlier and she has suggested giving me a week to think about things. Gives me some breathing space to spend time with Latvian and gauge things.
I know I got myself into this mess, and I’m not going to make any excuses for any of it now, but fixing it is now my number one priority and ensuring no one gets hurt in the process. I know some of you think I should tell all to one or both of them, but ending it peacefully without them knowing might be less hurtful for them too.
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reader, Godchild +, writes (11 January 2011):
Looks aren't everything. I can't tell you who to be with. The fact is you lied any you been two timing the whole time. The question is do you deserve them. Now there is a baby on the way. This adds more complications. I don't think its fair to be with someone just because of a child. You should of been a supporter with the austrailian instead of finding someone online. Relationships fall on bad times that doesnt mean find another before ending the other. You have some growing up to do.
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reader, honeybabe +, writes (11 January 2011):
as i was reading your post you are more in love with the australian.. Physical attractiveness is not forever. Why do old men are still with their spouses even if their wife are already wrinkled. It is the compatibility that counts.. Can you imagine getting old with whom? Australian or latvian? You said australian was like a diamond. It just came from the horses mouth.what do you do with diamonds? Keep it right? Do not create another mistake. If the baby with the latvian was a mistake you can support the baby and choose the australian.. Lust= latvian. Love= australian.
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reader, k_c100 +, writes (11 January 2011):
Look - the issue here is that neither girl is right for you, if you could combine the looks of the Latvian with the personality of the Australian you would have your dream girl, right?
So that conclusively proves that neither girl CAN EVER make you happy, you will always be looking for something extra if you choose one over the other.
In an ideal world - the best thing you could do (and the right thing) would be to come clean to both girls how you have 2 girlfriends, tell them about each other and how you are having a baby with the Latvian - that should make the decision far easier for you, both girls would leave you and that would be the right decision.
If you think you can grow a pair and put these girl's happiness before your own happiness, and for once in your life stop being selfish - then you would end it with both. But from your post you (sorry this is harsh but it is the truth) are very weak, easily swayed by tears and are indecisive. Therefore you wont accept this option of ending it with both because you are quite simply, a coward scared of facing up to what you have done - ruin 2 innocent, loving women's lives.
It would make my day if you actually left both of them and I would have so much respect for you, but such a huge turn arounds never happen here on Dear Cupid so I am not holding out much hope. So I will suggest one other alternative, this will be the easy route out for you: Leave the Australian and make it work with the Latvian.
You are going to be a father! You really have to step up now and be a good role model to this child, no child should be brought up by a dad who lies, cheats and is a coward. So face up to your responsibilities - you are having a baby with this woman therefore your choice has been made.
Of course you will miss the memories with the Australian but you will build new memories with the Latvian and your child - you will be a family. You have the opportunity to give a child a good chance in life, where mum and dad are together and make each other happy (most of the time). Dont throw this chance away just because you are afraid of hurting someone and will miss the good times you had. Imagine when your little boy/girl gets a bit older and asks you why you and mummy are not together, and you have to say that you had 2 girlfriends and could not choose between them? How awful will you feel then when you see the look on your child's face?
All major decisions in life are hard, and breaking up with anyone is never easy. But you have a child to think about now, and you have to do the right thing. This is your chance to step up and start being a good person, ready for when this child arrives. If you cant leave both of them, then you have to choose the mother of your child because you owe it to the child to at least try and see if it could work, see if you can be a family.
I hope this helps and good luck!
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 January 2011): I wonder if either of these girls would really want you if they knew exactly what was going on. The fact that one of the girls is now pregnant means that pretty soon your number will be up. You are not going to be able to hide that fact for long once the baby has arrived and the demands of that surface. So you need to think fast before the truth emerges and you lose both of them or keep whichever one is prepared to stick with you. I very much doubt that your Australian girl will want you once she finds out that a baby is involved, and in time she WILL find out, be sure. The beytrayal is massive especially after aborting her own baby. So perhaps you should be straight with all concerned, and support the girl who is going to have your baby. So in a way you do not have a choice, when all facts are on the table regardless of your musings about looks/personality. Be straight with the Aussie girl and go be with the girl who is having your baby.
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reader, Gabrielle Stoker +, writes (11 January 2011):
You've played them both this long, haven't you? And now that the chickens are coming home to roost, I suppose there's a problem.
@chigirl puts out a lot of sound home truths, I'd suggest you read her post twice over.
I'd suggest you come clean to both of them about the other. If either of them is still interested in you, carry on with that and try to mend your ways. For real.
If neither is, that's karma for you.
In the unlikely event that you are the kind of guy who is absolutely wonderful that both women are willing to forgive, well, at least you aren't lying to anyone anymore.
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reader, mystiquek + ♥, writes (11 January 2011):
 I have always remember what a very wise old woman (my grandmother) told me once when I was young and dating. "Look fade, but a pure true heart beats true forever". Looks don't last, I don't care how gorgeous a person is, and if that's all they've got going for them, it could be a very unhappy relationship down the road. But a person with a true heart/personality will ALWAYS be the same, no matter how old they get. Something to think about....
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reader, angelDlite +, writes (11 January 2011):
hi
you need to grow up, for your own sake. when Australian and you have probs you admit that she apologises 'even when it is not her fault' why is that? you have asked all your friends for their opinions, but it seems they are not giving you the answer you want to hear? all the BS about what these girls look like is totally inconsequential to us, and if you LOVE someone it should be inconsequential to you too. presumably the girls don't know about each other? Latvian is pregnant so how do you think you can be with Australian (for marriage, whatever) without her one day finding out about your child, doing her sums and realising that you have cheated? by which time you may have had kids with her too. you are getting yourself into one hell of a messy situation, and if i were you i would be more worried about that than the shallow 'concerns' regarding their looks, as you have expressed in your post.
advice: be honest with people in future and as for now, be honest with both of these women and see which one wants to stay with you. whichever is happy with you when they know what they are getting into, then they are the correct woman for you
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reader, chigirl +, writes (11 January 2011):
I do try to be nice to all people, and I don't say this to be mean to you. Im sure deep down you are a great guy. But you need to face yourself in the mirror here! You ARE a lying cheating scumbag, and if you cry because you will have to break one of these girls dream I have a newsflash for you: YOU ALREADY HAVE. What girl on earth dreams of being played for 5 months, or even 14 months? Seriously? You think you are some gift to them that will help them in their lives and that they will be heartbroken if they loose? You're a cheat, and you cheated on both of them, and lied, and you know what else you have. As far as the relationships go either girl should consider herself lucky to get away from you!
And what a luxury problem? Can't choose what girl to be with? You know what? None of them. Break up with both and take some serious time to change yourself and your ways. You gotta realize that this is NOT acceptable behaviour. So what you break up with one or the two now because you are just too tired to have two girlfriends? Don't you at all see ANY moral issues with this? Whatsoever? If you don't see that what you are doing is wrong then you need to work on yourself, get some help if necessary, but certainly you are not fit to be in any relationship at all.
If I have to choose for you I'd say you keep the Australian one, and then if you want to continue to be with her you need to tell her the truth about your cheating and HOPE that she actually still wants you. Yeah, because you know what? This isn't about you getting to choose what girl you want, this is about whether or not any of them will actually have you once they find out who you truly are.
Is your version of a good relationship one involving such acts as you have done? Or do you want a pure relationship, built on honesty and trust, a woman loving you for all the RIGHT reasons, and not for a picture you paint for her, not for a fake you? I do think there is hope for you, and people can change. But you gotta want it for yourself. Why did you ever feel you had to lie and cheat, and couldn't be honest? Is it really because you think no one will want you if you show them who you truly are? Because in that case the solution is NOT to lie and deceive. The only solution is to change yourself. And you can. Do it for yourself, or you will find yourself in this situation over and over, and the guilt will eat you up inside, and you will be the one who has to live knowing no one ever loved you for who you truly are.
Don't chicken out. Do it!
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