A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:So I've been reading post about women upset about their boyfriends using porn and post about guys upset about their girlfriends using a vibrator. It strikes me odd at the double standard women have for vibrators and porn. Every post I read consist of women berating men and looking down upon them for using porn. Then when I read about men berating women about their sex toy, I see women get defensive and try to make them look like the bad guy. It's obvious that porn usage and sex toy usage will lead to less sex but ladies why the double standard? Why do guys have to give up porn but you still get to have your toy? Any answers is greatly appreciated. :)
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female
reader, R1  +, writes (1 January 2013):
 My issue with porn has always been the way women are treated in the making of it. How many women really want to be doing the things that are asked of them. Just because they are being paid doesn't make it ok for them to have to do anything men want.My ex watched a lot of porn but also wanted a lot of sex, I don't think he would have wanted more/less if he didn't watch it.Men and women have different attitudes towards sex.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 January 2013): You like your vibrator better
Reaching for your Rabbit more often than your honey bunny? This is more common than some might think, De Villers says. A vibrator is simpler and more accessible than a cooperating penis. While there’s nothing wrong with incorporating sex toys into your love life, becoming reliant on a vibrator—or even preferring it over your partner—can be a serious problem.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 January 2013): This ones from sweet-thing down this side! "When men watch porn, they're saying we're not pretty enough; our boobs aren't large enough, our ^^s not tight enough. It clearly registers in most women's heads that you are not satisfied with them, that we do not measure up to what you really want in a woman" Does your man measure up to what you really want in a man?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (7 June 2012): Women are upset that they are put to the standards of the women in the videos. They feel they are not good enough for their men if the men are getting off while looking at other (generally attractive) women. It's an insecurity thing, many times. If women are using vibrators, they aren't necessarily looking at pornography -- they aren't comparing their men to anyone else.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (31 May 2012):
 That study used 304 randomly sampled videos from the AVN most popular list and analyzed them for content. I was wrong, it's 88.4% not 88.6%. Also I worded it wrong, the word aggression is what is used, not violence. Sorry for the mix up. The most common instances of aggression were gagging and slapping.
On what grounds do you get to claim that certain studies are biased?
Again essentially what you are saying is that there are too many factors to take into account for any behavioral studies to be valid. Or maybe only too many for any studies finding harm to be valid? The studies I used are mostly cause and effect studies where other factors WERE taken into account. There's far less likelihood of external causes influencing a cause and effect study than a statistical analysis.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (26 May 2012): Porn reflects what its own producers want to see at least as much as what the customers want to see. IMHO most porn is much more misogynistic than the average male viewer, just by the nature of who is inclined to produce porn for a living. Most average male viewers are not getting any big kick out of that aspect of it.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 May 2012): I can see where a feminist movement...a group of women could come into this and justify the vibrator thing....it's those same groups of people who stand tall and say "we don't need a man", we can do everything without one, even have a child...blah, blah, blah....whatever...to each his own, but it's a small group in comparison to the "average" women...kind of reminds me of the really obese women who promote how wonderful they are and how happy they claim to be and justify why they have chosen to eat their way to death instead of admitting and understanding how much their health is at risk...
It would be a very daunting task, but on this site alone... just in the past year.... if one was to pull up every related post on this subject, I could bet (my own estimated poll, certainly not verified) 80% of the subjects are related to a women who is struggling with a man and his porn usage, 19.5% of the subjects are related to a man who has admitted and is struggling with his porn addiction, and .5% are of a man struggling with a women and her vibrator (and I'll throw porn in there too) usage.
Again, I did not verify this, nor do I intend to, but I do firmly believe I am not that far off...it speaks volumes.
I don't think this blanket men should give a porn, but women should be able to keep their vibrators, makes any sense at all......
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (26 May 2012):
Yeah except I've never said I was in favor of censorship. Nice straw man though.You do realize when I say the porn directly contributes to violence I was talking about sexual slavery and the women who are abused in the making of porn, don't you? I have stated pretty clearly in numerous posts that porn does not cause otherwise non-violent men to commit sexual violence, it increases the likelihood that men at risk (around 1/4 of men) will be affected in that way and it increases aggression, but neither of those statements are even close to saying porn causes rape.Again, trivializing increased pressure to fit gender roles that require women to do more work for no reason, to have less satisfying sex lives, and that punish women for independence is not helpful. It makes you sound very privileged to claim that harmful gender roles are trivial. When I said you were manipulating what she was saying it wasn't because the formatting was off, you took a three sentence phrase and you rearranged the order of the sentences so it sounded like she was contradicting herself and failing to present evidence when she wasn't at all. In the end though it doesn't really matter what her wording was, what matters is the study. I posted that essay because of its citations and summaries of those citations, not because of the author.Controlling for outside factors is really only the "achilles heel" of large-scale regional correlation studies. For instance saying that because violent crime is higher in this state and they watch more porn, they must be connected, is useless no matter how many statistical analyses you run on it. But controlled studies with subjects are completely different. It's really silly to say that all behavior studies done are useless because culture exists. It especially makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about when you say that only studies I use have this flaw."I don't know how much porn is of the violent variety, but you are not making that distinction."88.6% of mainstream porn is. She cited MANY studies that looked at non-violent pornography, in fact most did not specify the type of pornography.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (25 May 2012):
We're only talking about studies on men with porn because this question is about men and porn, not women and porn. There are studies on women and porn, but there are fewer of them because there are a lot fewer female porn users. They generally find the same harm as among men. I did talk about studies on women and vibrators. Most studies found that women/couples who use sex toys have more satisfying sex lives and the women who use them want sex more often. There are very few, if any, studies finding harm because there is no widespread risk of harm and the problem of women choosing vibrators over men is not separate or different from the issue of people in general choosing masturbation. The only peer-reviewed studies I've seen finding harm on this have been about the risk of infections from improper cleaning/sharing.
You claim not to be angry at women and then go on to say no one can study women because they're so dishonest and advocate positively for a complete separation and isolation of men from women. What are you trying to get across?
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (25 May 2012):
"So it is not porn that creates the violence, it is society's tolerance of it that leads to more? Right?"
This was under where she was discussing the different types of models to study pornography's impact. What she was talking about is that there are numerous correlation studies about increased and decreased violence by region with pornography use and sex stores. She's saying the same thing I have been saying, that correlation studies like those are pretty much useless. Her statement is not about pornography, violence, or its effect, simply about how useless those types of studies are in understanding this because it is impossible to separate those kinds of things from the culture around it.
For your next example you took each sentence as an individual idea, moved them around to your liking, then claimed she is wrong and has no credibility when in fact what she was saying was nothing like what you are claiming.
The paragraph was a bit confusing/poorly worded, but what she was saying was that pornography does not make men outright hate women. It does change their views on women's place in the world through gender roles, which is huge. The effect of men expecting their partners to be like "June Cleaver" is extremely important, you are not gaining points by belittling that women are still expected to fit an outdated role. Women still do 2-3x the housework and childcare that men have to do. Thinking that women should be less sexual than men is also a very harmful idea from every single way you look at it. There is nothing trivial about gender role expectations.
There is no mention of the non-violent pornography because she is talking about one singular study. There are many studies on this from both violent and non-violent perspectives. Donnerstein, Zillman, Bryant, Violato, Malamuth, those are the main researchers. Not to mention that close to 90% of mainstream pornography today does contain violence, overwhelmingly against women.
You are coming to incorrect conclusions. You claim that it was the violent content in the films that changed the rape attitudes, then when she clarifies that it is not JUST the violence, it's the combination of violence and sex, you claim she in contradicting herself. Nothing she is saying is contradictory, you are misreading what she is saying.
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (25 May 2012):
 "In a couple of years men will no longer need women except for procreation because if robotic keep s on moving forward then soon sex robots will be on the open market. Then women will hate men even more and find something to complain about these new toys despite a decrease of sex crimes. "
You're forgetting something important. Men love women. And women love their men. We're not out to get you and hang you on a pole to dry.
There is no "war" over porn going on. Maybe some couple have this as an issue, but it's no different from quarrels over tons of other more important matters. If a partner isn't letting you express yourself sexually the way you want to, well, break up then! Don't declare a war on all women (or men). This entire debate is over-rated.
Just for fun:
By using the very same theory as you are using on sex toys, I can say women will WELCOME these sex toys, because we don't like anal sex, but you can have it with your toy without cheating. We don't want threesomes, but you can buy two toys like this and have your threesome. Sounds like something women will embrace, not hate ;)
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionperson12345- I'm not angry never have been. chigirl is a very wise aunt and I'm not saying she is wrong nor I'm saying you are either. What I'm saying is that these studies that have been done seem greatly biased because they only focus on men. Women seem to never have anything wrong with them when it comes to being compared to men.What about studies on women using vibrators that ignore there boyfriend or spouse? What about women who use porn? Even if they did a study it would be invalid because women are known to lie about their sexual experiences because women (Going back to the double standard of being a slut by there sexual experiences) know to hide certain aspects of their lives for double standard reasons. An example is a woman who has slept with 30 guys if asked in a study will say she has been with only 10 because men when given the choice would pick 10 over 30. In a couple of years men will no longer need women except for procreation because if robotic keep s on moving forward then soon sex robots will be on the open market. Then women will hate men even more and find something to complain about these new toys despite a decrease of sex crimes.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (25 May 2012):
I consider my sources very carefully and I do research, both lab work and journal review for a job. I pay a lot of attention to what I'm citing and I read through the studies very carefully. These are not studies done for political gain, they are overwhelmingly grant funded studies performed at major research universities and published in well-known peer-reviewed journals. Despite the extremely sexist claims that any studies on pornography done by women are biased, most of the studies were done by straight men. I have spent hours looking at them because it used to be my job. For every study I picked there were many I discarded because they were badly done.
Your rebuttal was made in anger at the fact that they didn't agree with you, not based on anything of substance. You assume that because they don't agree with your worldview they must be biased and political when in fact the vast majority of studies on the subject come to the same conclusions. Pornography use has been so conclusively shown to cause these things that researchers on not allowed to knowingly expose subjects to it. While there are a handful of correlation analyses showing positive results that are widely published in pop psych mags, they are outnumbered enormously by studies showing harm. Simply because that isn't what you wanted to hear doesn't mean they are wrong or biased.
Also what Chigirl said was very good. How are vibrators better than male sex toys? They both result in orgasm, there's nothing more to it. I don't know of any women who wouldn't gladly get rid of the vibrator if they could orgasm as easily as men can. I have had orgasms from vibrators, I've had them from sex and there is absolutely no comparison. I'd take the latter every time if I could.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSo just because I made a rebuttal about the usage of statistics which everyone always doesnt consider the source I'm a bad guy? I was just explaining how studies doesnt take into account other factors and that the data are only objective to the person looking at it or studying it. I suggest taking a college speech class and there you will learn how to manipulate the facts and audience to your liking. I like to deal with common sense not some study done for political reasons. And I'm happily single thank you vey much. I wrote this because it perplexed the heck out of me and yes I do view porn but I'm assuming everyone is going to judge me for being single and using it especially the female party. I don't have not once of hatred for women using toys. I do have a problem with double standards especially how women are considered hoes for sleeping around but yet men are considered Gods but thats a whole other topic.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2012): You asked and you said "any answers were greatly appreciated"....I suppose you did not expect to get a lot of intelligent, mature and experienced, well thought out responses? Or perhaps you are not happy because they were of a different opinion than yourself? Maybe you are going to take your toys and go home because you found out the replies were not what you had hoped you would receive?
Open your mind and read the words that are written by a lot of different people...maybe you will learn something from this post...you asked a intelligent question and you received a variety of opinions and much information that is related to what you wanted to know.
You may not agree with any of the responses, but there is always something you can gain from each and every one.
Hope things work out with your porn and her vibrator...let us know how that worked out for you.
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (24 May 2012):
"Look OP, most of us guys know full well that male sex toys are pretty crap and women get by far the better deal there."
I have to disagree. Vibrators are vibrators, and they can get you there. But if a man was able to bring us there it's always tons better. So I don't think it is fair to say that a vibrator is a "better deal", or that it takes away the man's role in the bedroom. A vibrator can never replace a man. A vibrator can give an orgasm, but unlike most guys, women do not focus primarily on the orgasm. We tend to accept that an orgasm is a rare thing, we don't need one every time there is sex, and many go completely without. We still enjoy sex. Sex isn't just for the one who can reach an orgasm, sex pleasures in many other ways. A vibrator can not give you all this other pleasure. Many can't even get an orgasm from a vibrator either.
Male toys aren't worse than female toys, and female toys aren't "better". You can reach orgasm by using a male sex toy, right? Well, that's what women can as well. But you get a better feeling, and a better orgasm with a real life person. If only they could make it happen we'd happily accept and throw the vibrator away.
As for the references to feminism.. that's really random and not at all relevant. Women aren't against porn because they are feminists. Some feminists are surely against porn, but tons of women who aren't feminists are against porn. Porn is illegal several places, after all, so it's not just women who think it is "wrong", nor has it been banned in more places as a consequence of feminism. So that is a far shot. You could just as easily blame communism.
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWhen I was 8 my mom would drag me to the movies to go see horror/killer films that where Rated R. You now what I find hilarious? I find it funny that people say that Television, Films, Music, Games makes kids behave bad and violent. I saw those films so young but did I ever go into a violent rage, kill someone, or become a rapist? I even played M rated video games at that age but you know what I can remember from my childhood the most is that people complemented me on how of a behaved child I was and still me being 21 tell me how they are astonished at how well I was brought up. I believe all those studies always serve a political agenda that's why I never pay attention to them. You know what else I find hilarious is that women actually expect love to be like the movies but yet they get no flak for believing that. But yet when a man even tries to allude to believing in that it becomes absurd. Oh and before looking towards your scientific studies did you just hear about the scientist who came out and said that he was sorry for actually saying that his research said that therapy could cure gays. He was under pressure by religious and political agendas to come to that conclusion back in 2000 even though he knew his research was flawed due to his findings where based on his patients word. Such a shame everyone has a agenda maybe one day we will be free of tyranny and be given our common sense back .
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (24 May 2012):
For the women who struggle to orgasm it's not because they aren't doing it right, or their boyfriend won't go down on them, these are women who can't or struggle to orgasm do so even when they try on themselves or have a partner try fingers or oral. It's not simply an issue of not doing it right. There are women who never have an orgasm or don't have one until their 40's. Again, just like men with ED wouldn't have an easier time if they simply tried a different technique. This is at least a quarter of women and half of vibrator users. Also Janniepeg, I'm not talking about me, just like in porn discussions I'm not talking about me or my relationship.
Cerberus it's incredibly sad that you think that a corporate addictive product created for the purpose of making money is synonymous with male sexuality. Porn companies go absolutely giddy with the idea of controlling men and their sexuality, through addiction that affects more than 15% of users, through the fact that their product is most used by the most vulnerable/malleable populations (young adolescents), and through brainwashing men into thinking porn is their own fantasy when it's in fact no more fantasy than TV movies are real life. Porn companies are so effective at having controlled men that many men feel like porn and masturbation are the same thing, that men will literally give up longterm partners before this product, and most of all that they actually believe this product is a part of their own sexuality when it's a PRODUCT. For making money. Believing porn is synonymous with male sexuality or with masturbation is like believing that smoking is synonymous with breathing (note: no one on this page has ever claimed that vibrators are a part of female sexuality). Despite this industry that makes more money than hollywood directly from exploiting men who buy into an addictive product, it's feminists controlling male sexuality with their zero money and next to no political power? Seriously?
Vibrators do not directly contribute to rape, sexual slavery, or trafficking. Porn does. Vibrators do not present violence (shown in close to 90% of mainstream porn in some form) and dominance over an oppressed group as a positive thing, porn does. In fact you've said so yourself on that last one, that the "good" porn is about men dominating women and that sex is about your control of women's orgasms and about sexual dominance. Vibrators do not make women feel entitled to demand brutal punishing sex from their partners, porn sometimes does. We get many questions from men about how they can make their female partners do anal, facials, swallow, and do threesomes. I'd also like to point out that we get FAR (by at least a factor of 20) more questions from men who feel insecure about their penis size from watching too much porn than men insecure from vibrators.
You seriously believe that fighting sexual slavery, sexual violence, and sexual exploitation of vulnerable groups makes feminists the same as Nazis? It makes you sound incredibly arrogant to say that because women don't focus all of their energy on men's problems that women's problems are irrelevant. Feminists already do spend a significant amount of energy trying to fight things that are at the root of a lot of male on male violence and accidental male death and injury through "macho culture." You can read more about "what about the men" arguments here: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/phmt-argument/
I'm wondering, did you know that men's rights activists have been labelled a hate group by the same people (the SPLC) who fought the KKK?
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female
reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (24 May 2012):
 The guinea pig blew out the margin.
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2012): "are quite bitter towards women in general"
Not women female reader, feminism and feminists, or as my girlfriend calls them "gender fascists that won't be happy until every man is castrated and they achieve gender apartheid" I prefer the term feminazi. I love women, my mother, sisters, girlfriend and many of my friends are women who have earned the same respect and rights as any man in my life, the fact is the person who I think most highly of in this world and respect the most is a woman. My girlfriend uses vibrators, I use them with her, I actually bought her a Play Touch for xmas for use in her office during the day, we both use porn and we both detest feminists. As do the majority of my friend's, male and female although I do have some male and female friends who espouse to some feminist ideologies but even they're not so petty as to think anything involving a beautiful naked woman is bad. Don't get me wrong we'd love full equality and better treatment of women in all ways but feminists want superiority and "equality" through tearing down men, rather than empowering both men and women. But my girlfriend earns more money, is more successful and stronger intellectually and emotionally than any person I've ever met, she actually thinks women who moan and complain about other women being more beautiful are pathetic, she thinks life is far easier than people make out, if you're fat lose weight, don't like your hair get it done, don't earn enough respect at work stand up for yourself and fight. I actually used to be pro-feminist until she set me straight, I never actually paid too much attention to it and always assumed the idea to be noble so how could it be bad?
I get very heated when discussing matters such as these because men's views on the matter are not listened to they are merely argued against and cast down as irrelevant, it's just that simple.
They are a microcosm of what is happening in the world. That's actually why my girlfriend doesn't have an account here. She does like reading my posts and actually gives me a lot of tips and helps me formulate some of my posts but feminists infuriate her because they presume to know, try and tell her what she should want/feel/think without actually consulting her and she truly believes they do so because they're insecure, petty and jealous of other women especially successful and happy women like her.
In response to person12345's question what do women who struggle use instead she said with a smile, "their boyfriend's tongue like I do."
We have lengthy discussions about sexuality, porn and other things, pass each other new information and try new and different things. We share almost the same views on most things related to sexuality. For example the attempt by right wing media in the UK now to ban Internet porn because of its effects on children who view it and all the extreme measures they're proposing. We both detest the idea of removing parental responsibility, parents are supposed to raise their kids, be aware of dangers and raise their kids well. But feminists are trying to completely remove all work and responsibility of mothers/fathers to do this by just banning everything instead. Remove everyone's freedom of choice because a few thick parents don't know how to set up parental controls, teach their kids healthy attitudes as regards sexuality or for some insane reason give their 12 year old a laptop to use privately and unmonitored.
None of my kid sisters were allowed have a laptop until they turned 16, they could only ever use the house computer in the main room of the house with parental controls set up and no password so we could check if we wanted.
I don't understand why any guy would have a problem with vibrator usage, I think they're awesome and my girlfriend doesn't understand why any woman would feel threatened by porn because she's not nor ever has been and frankly we don't know anyone who feels that way either.
When feminists fight just as hard for equality in prison sentencing for women who commit the same crimes as men but are viewed as more emotionally fragile and get lesser sentences, fight just as hard for fathers who are fantastic to get custody rights over their drug addicted wife who automatically holds the advantage based on her gender, as hard as they fight to have beautiful young women removed from ads and posters, then we'll take them seriously but they won't so we don't. Because if you look at the major issues they do fight for it's all down to them being jealous and hating women who are younger and more beautiful than them, and how guys like to enjoy youth and beauty in women. They want empowerment through control and domination of male sexuality that's all it boils down to and the porn vs. vibrator issue brought up in this post all boils down to that. They simply refuse to see it any other way but their way and as usual their views take precedence.
A guy says there is a double standard, "no, it doesn't compare, women need it men don't, porn is bad vibrators are good" it's just the way they view their sexuality as good and men's sexuality as bad unless it's a female vetted and accepted form of sexuality. In other words as long as they have total control of the cock and it's usage.
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female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (24 May 2012):
 An agony uncle has a book recommended for everybody. I read it and it made sense. It's not a perfect book but it made me understand why biologically we are promiscuous and the one man one woman system just doesn't work for our bodies. It's called sex at dawn.
what are the women who struggle to orgasm or are completely unable to orgasm (this is more than half of women who use vibrators) without vibrators supposed to do instead?
The guy is supposed to help her with fingering and/or oral. I don't know about you but it works for me. Women have to be honest and not fake orgasms, and guys, a twitch is not an orgasm by the way. A vibrator was the first electrical thing ever invented. Before that women used carrots, cucumbers or any phallic shaped made by earth materials. I saw a documentary that when a woman went to a clinic to get checked, she had an "orgasm" therapy done by the doctor. People at that time believed that the lack of orgasm is the cause of frustration, horrible mood swings, depression and ill health in women. A woman's anatomy is still a mystery. It is just recently I read that the G spot is not really a spot but a long stretched area touching the outside clitoris, therefore making women believe that all orgasms stem from the clitoris. At this point in my life I am satisfied with clitoral orgasms and I don't really care about having an inner orgasm. I believe many woman are like that. Unless I have hours of down time then I would love to explore that with my partner. I had an ex that could last forever. He was the only one who could give me vaginal orgasm. Unfortunately we broke up and I am not going to hunt down "long lasting" men. I just lowered my expectations when it comes to sex.
For your question it can be a double standard. But for every 10 posts there are 9 porn complainers and versus 1 toy complainer. There was no mention that the porn complainers are also dating toy complainers at the same time. I am not sure if you can lump these two groups and then form your conclusion that women are being unfair. If you want to say that there are many feminists in your country, then yes, that is right. I grew up in Asia. You can say Asian culture is more conservative but yet both my parents liked watching adult stuff. There were never any arguments about it. So when I grew up it is natural that I would watch porn and not get mad when men watch porn. As Cerberus said porn is not as much a big deal in Netherlands, France or Germany. It is a cultural thing that made people behave as they do, and it's not necessarily a global gender fight you think it is.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (23 May 2012): I do not believe for a second that the majority of women would prefer a vibrator over a real man who we love, want to feel safe and loved by, and have that passion and intimate sex with...we are just NOT wired that way!If a women is THAT attached to her vibrator (and I do realize there are plenty of jokes out there like this), I am sure there are exceptions, but it's just not a blanket for every women...it just isn't.Nor is it a blanket for every man with porn, but there are clearly and undisputeably far more problems with men and their porn usage then there are with women and their vibrators...I am laughing as I am typing this..it's like comparing a rabbit to a fish...the similarities...they both breath lol@cerberus...you are certainly entitled to your opinions, whether I agree with them or not, but I often read responses from you and sense you are quite bitter towards women in general...is this possibly why you are so disgruntle with what you think all women have become or what you believe they are all doing? It's not intended to be a defensive question, I am just curious.someone said something about a blow up doll instead of a women...there is a joke about that one too...something about not having any social skills...enough said, I am not even going to go there lol.I don't think anyone is looking down a someone who masturbates, this is normal and quite healthy. Someone said, if there was no porn, men could still masturbate...so true...they would have to use their other senses besides sight to get the same result, such as, oh, touch/feeling/imagination/using your mind, taste...see where I am going here? REAL sex with a real person, instead far from reality porn. And engaging with their own body with or without someone. And men can accomplish this task fairly quickly, whereas women do not orgasm as quickly...it takes some women years to find out what a real orgasm feels like and for some they begin to lose them and it takes longer and longer and longer, just like men when they get older. There is nothing wrong with crutches, and yes even porn, if it is used responsibly. However, we all know this is not the case for everyone. Sometimes I think we need to go back to a more primative lifestyle, lose the electricity for a while and force people to not be so lazy in their lives, pay attention to the people and the world around us, read a book, turn off the damn computer and tv, get rid of the DVD's etc....we need the rug pulled out from under us so we can once again appreciate the simpler things in life...there is no longer any mystery to sexuality anymore..it's anything goes and all be damned who gets in the way..okay, getting of my soap box now...
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (23 May 2012):
"How many men actually know that penis' are pretty much useless to a lot of women in comparison?"That's because most men do not seem to realize that their penises do not give women orgasms.I notice everyone is still avoiding the question, what are the women who struggle to orgasm or are completely unable to orgasm (this is more than half of women who use vibrators) without vibrators supposed to do instead? And saying that if they stopped the vibrator they'd have an easier time is like telling someone with ED that their Viagra is just a crutch.
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 May 2012): Look OP, most of us guys know full well that male sex toys are pretty crap and women get by far the better deal there.
Once they start making toys that guys will start using on themselves while in relationships women too will try to control that in the same way they do the porn thing.
The fleshlight which is by far the best wank device on the market for guys at the moment and gaining popularity is good evidence of this. You will see more and posts like the one below start to pop up.
http://forums.fleshlight.com/showthread.php?29845-Does-pussy-still-feel-as-good-after-using-fleshlight
The thing about toys though is guys usually only use them while single, we give them up for the most part when in relationships, most women don't. But that will change as better toys come out for guys.
The real dolls are also exploding in popularity and I can't see any woman accepting a guy still uses one of those in a relationship but it's the exact same thing as vibrator or dildo, a plastic sex toy and not a real person. You see the true hypocrisy here is that they say porn is real people but I really can't imagine person12345 being okay with her partner owning and using a real doll. I don't think they'd be okay with us using a silicone woman but it's perfectly fine for them to use a plastic penis and one which she freely admits is better than the real thing for a lot of women. Why do you think they mock guys who have sex dolls as losers?
Why does it not effect the divorce rates? That's easy how many women will honestly tell their husband that their vibrator is far superior to his dick? How many men actually know that penis' are pretty much useless to a lot of women in comparison? Now compare that to mass publicized and well organized campaign against porn and you'll see why. Studies are quite simply not done to probe into the negative effects so you won't really find any, all studies done are based on opinions mainly of women who of course are going to give them glowing reviews.
Create mass awareness that many women prefer vibrators to penises and that the real thing is inadequate when it comes to pleasuring them and you'll see some change. Maybe it's time some men groups started their own campaigns.
Once more guys discover the neatness, tightness and little fuss of a good sex toy for masturbation, then women are going to start feeling insecure about that too and will have a problem with the fact that you're using a sex toy, with smaller labia, tighter than their vagina's etc. And even though it's not real they will start to feel threatened by that and again we're going to come across the same issues as we do with porn. Our toys will be shown to have been made in Chinese labour camps by exploited and trafficked people, numerous studies will come out by feminist academics about the harmful effects of having an artificial vagina superior in tightness etc. than that of a real woman's vagina etc.
A lot of women just want to be 100% in control of our sexuality when we're with them it's as simple as that.
It's called the battle of the sexes for a reason.
Just make sure not to date a hypocrite OP. If you use porn don't date a girl who dislikes porn. If she has a vibrator make sure you get fleshlight or a real dolls, she won't always be in the mood and when she's not you'll have an awesome real doll that she won't mind you using because it's "not real".
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reader, Tigger90 +, writes (23 May 2012):
To put it out there honestly.. my boyfriend and my relationship is 100% open. Sorry guys for this next part! During or even before I don't mind watching porn with him. And sex toys have never came as a problem, I enjoy them and he enjoys helping me use them.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (23 May 2012):
They all show up the very first page of a google scholar search, I don't feel like finding them all since I was summarizing more than 20 papers. Here's one of the most well-known current researchers on the subject writing a paper summarizing her findings and the well known findings of other researchers:
http://www.socialcostsofpornography.com//Bridges_Pornographys_Effect_on_Interpersonal_Relationships.pdf
The satisfaction studies were I believe first done in the 80's by Zillman and Bryant, and repeated 3 more times in major ways.
I notice you didn't answer my last question. What are the numerous women who struggle to orgasm or who are unable to orgasm without assistance supposed to do to soothe their partner's egos then, other than get dumped or go without orgasms for something that is not their fault?
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reader, person12345 +, writes (23 May 2012):
Studies on relationships done on porn use in relationships found:Porn users were less satisfied with their partner's appearance and sexual curiosity and sex life. This was cause and effect. The users impacted were unaware of the impact.Porn has been a contributing factor in over half of divorces since 2003.It's estimated that 15% and rising of porn users have developed a compulsion/addiction that interferes with their lives.Porn use has been shown to warp a user's sense of reality in innumerable measurable aspects.Polls done have found that porn users tend to be worse at understanding how to pleasure their partner/makes the users more selfish in bed.Without porn almost all users will continue to be able to orgasm.Studies done on vibrator use in relationships found:Women who use vibrators have sex more frequently than those who don't.Vibrator use increases a woman's sexual curiosity and sexual satisfaction.Vibrator use has caused no significant change in divorce.While porn use can warp a woman's sense of what's normal sex wise, no such correlation has been found from vibrators.There have been no recorded addictions to vibrators.No other actual people are involved.Without vibrators many women would struggle to or be unable to orgasm.Basically the summary, in every study done porn use is linked to sexual dissatisfaction by the user, vibrator use is linked to sexual satisfaction. Sexual satisfaction = more sex.I fail to see any similarities whatsoever other than they are both about masturbation. There is no difference between what a vibrator does and a man's hand on his own penis. It can be used by anyone, including the guy to make his life easier when he's trying to pleasure her. No other people involved. Porn is not fantasy, it is actual other human beings. Those are actual people. The fact that they are on the other side of a screen doesn't change that. If it took men an average of 20-30 minutes of constant active stimulation at a pretty hard to reach angle to achieve an orgasm they'd invent a machine to help prevent tendonitis too. I know it's probably hard for most men to imagine what it feels like, but I doubt many women would be so attached to their vibrators if it was as easy for them to orgasm as for most men. Our bodies just aren't really built for orgasms. Some women can't even have them, period. They've actually been putting things in drug trials that go into her spinal column to "force" an orgasm. Men have always been able to have quick easy orgasms, women have not. Vibrators can't be replacing something that was never there to begin with.If one person is choosing to masturbate instead of have sex, that is a problem. But it's not a vibrator specific thing.So in other words, I ask you this. What do you suppose the women who struggle immensely to reach orgasm or are unable to orgasm without mechanical assistance do instead? Should they simply never have another orgasm? Do you suppose it's fair that while you can go rub one out in 5-10 minutes, she should have to give herself tendonitis? Or should she have to simply forgo an orgasm if the guy just isn't feeling up to long periods of digital or oral stimulation? I'm pretty sure most guys take it as a given that masturbation or sex will end in an orgasm unless they choose not to. It's not really the same story for many women.
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reader, Mr.issues21 +, writes (22 May 2012):
 Hey man, i feel your pain because my ex-gf used to prefer her toy than me most of the time and when i went to touch her she'd juyst say she wasn't horny or anything, but if i was you try maybe using your girls toy on her she might like the feel of a different set of hands using it maybe, hell use your tongue too if you like going down on her, but try not to get jealous and if you love your porn then try watching it together perhaps?... otherwise just nip to the bathroom for a very long shite ;) lol, good luck buddy!
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2012): To the last anon posting on May 22:
Vibrators have caused many of those reactions in lots of men. But men are generally too shamed away from admitting any of of it. They typically get blame rather than sympathy when they do open up about it.
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionFemale Anon-"I have never heard of a vibrator causing as much grief and heartache as porn does in relationships."-Yes it does. I'll explain in a bit
"I've never heard of a vibrator being used in excess and causing addiction."-Yes it does. Females who use vibrators become use to the sensation the same as a man masturbating with his hand. Also females seem to enjoy their vibrator so much that, in some cases they would rather use it than sex with there partner.
"I've never heard of a vibrator being to blame for all the sex trafficking."-It sounds like you are trying to justify yourself by bringing a different topic to the question. "as men try to justify their pathetic need for so much of porn viewing"-Please explain why a man view of porn is pathetic? Aren't we granted the same freedom as you women to view or use any type of stimuli? It sounds to me that you are a porn hater.
I have used porn for a some good years and I don't see any negative effects I hear about. Of course I'm single and if I didn't have porn in my life I would be forced by male nature to go sleep with countless women to satisfy myself. Porn has ironically prevented me from having one night stands, or use women in my real adult life. I'm not a psycho killer, molester, rapist, or a monster for using it. Like I said before this is not about saying women are wrong for using a vibrator or pleasing herself. It's about a double standard women put out there for men to look at and go what the hell how am I suppose to get off without a stimuli because we do not have female parts so of course our vibrator is porn.
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2012): I don't think it's a double standard at all.I have never heard of a vibrator causing as much grief and heartache as porn does in relationships.I've never heard of a vibrator being used in excess and causing addiction.I've never heard of a vibrator being to blame for all the sex trafficing.I've never heard of a vibrator being blamed for ED in men.I could go on and on.... I think it's a poor comparison.Actually, I rarely hear women having the same kind of problems men have when they view porn...why is that? Why do we rarely hear (except one recently on here) of women with the kind of major issues men create with excessive porn watching? I already know the answer to the question...but, as much as men try to justify their pathetic need for so much of porn viewing in their lives and how the same people continue to belittle women and try and make them feel even more inadequate with labeling them as insecure....the bottom line, there is far more evidence how harmful porn is and what it does to primarily men (and what it does to the women in their lives), then what a vibrator does to women (or the man in their lives). And I am not a porn hater.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (22 May 2012):
You sort of also see men who get defensive and protective of their porn collection... So this goes both ways.
I think what is important to know here is that a woman who is against porn in all likelihood is NOT an owner of a toy. She is probably very much against that as well.
Then, there is the big difference between the two. A toy is not porn. There are toys for men as well, so it's not really a unique thing for women. Tons of guys have toys. Cockrings, masturbating sleeves, fleshlights, you name it.
Maybe the odd thing is that I never heard a woman complain about her mans toys. Nor have I heard of a man complain about his wife's porn use (I don't count half the things you read online, most of that is trolling. I mean real life scenarios and the tad more credible posts).
Porn and toys aren't the same. I don't know why women who complain about porn don't complain about toys as well. Maybe because they haven't caught their man red-handed with a toy. And I don't know why men accept women using porn, but not using toys. Maybe it's to do with being scared of what you are unfamiliar with. A woman who watched porn will not judge her man for watching porn. A man using toys will not judge his woman using toys.
But the most important thing to remember is that this is by no means anything universal. Not all women are against porn, and not all men are against toys. I've never met a man who was against my toys, and I have 4 of them. In fact, two of my boyfriends bought toys together with me. Only one of my exes used toys himself. It never was an issue.
Same with porn, I've met few women who are against it, and the ones who dislike it aren't being hardcore about it. They just prefer it to not be included in their sex lives and for their man to not watch it when he's getting regular sex with her. If they are apart, or unable to see each other for a while, porn is ok again.
I don't know, I guess this is the sort of thing you can't stereotype or get defensive about unless you are in the situation yourself. It's not about right or wrong, it's about personal choices.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (22 May 2012):
 I agree with Honeypie...
we have porn in our house
we have toys in our house
no one is unloved or neglected.
there are plenty of women that don't mind porn
and there are plenty of women that don't have toys.
besides, if she has a hand held shower massage you may not even know when she's satisfying herself...
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (22 May 2012):
 Why not find a women who sees it your way? So she can keep her toy and you can watch your porn?
I don't think every woman hates or vilify porn. Usually when they do, it's either due to have been neglected due to the man's OVER USE of porn or self-esteem issues.
Just like some women have a negative view of porn for being the "competition" I see men feel that way about toys. The thing is, toy for most women can never replace the intimacy of sex. But it does seem like porn can easily replace it for some men.
My advice is to find a woman who feels the same way as you, not to please you but because she genuinely believe it.
My husband watches porn, but I am never neglected. I have toy but they are not more important then sharing intimacy with him. It works for us.
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2012): Porn involves pictures of real people that can be compared. A vibrator is a piece of material.
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you all for your insight but don't get me wrong in no way am I saying that women don't have a right to orgasm but the dilemma here is the double standard. Women have a right to vibrators but it seems that when a man is caught masturbating either by himself or with porn its looked down upon by women. Men of course are visual creatures and masturbating without a stimulant is boring. Yes males do get off real easily but its all in the mind with us. Porn, pictures, etc, are our stimulant. Women will never get no matter how many times us guys try to explain that when we look at porn we are just looking for a stimulant for the moment and after that moment we never think about the video we just watched again. Personally when I look at porn I just put on whatever I'm feeling at the moment and after I'm done I never think about that I just watched. To Sweet-thing---- so a man has no right to his own body?
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reader, grymsoul +, writes (22 May 2012):
 I agree that it is a double standard. I honestly have never masturbated without an image of a lady in my head. Sweet-thing mentioned that ladies only need the toy, no images, no men, nothing else. So therefore, I believe that men should have porn at their disposal. I find it extrememly difficult to ejaculate to just my hand and a blank image in my mind. In fact, impossible.So if ladies are capable of it, then all the power to you. Also, I find it a load of crap that ladies don't think of some kind of man while using the vibrator. I've read posts where ladies state that they fantasize about their crush while using a toy. If she's allowed to dream up a man while alone in that bathroom then I should be allowed to watch women on the tv screen. Just because my women are behind a glass screen doesn't make them any realer than the men women tantalize over.All in all, it just means less sex for both parties. I'm pretty sure if I bought a fleshlight that felt better than my girlfriend's own love box, used it everydsy and made more pleasurable sounds with it, she would see red before her eyes. I will admit that when I watch porn I think of the actual women behind the screen. But thinking about her doesn't actual make it possible for me to have her. I mean, come on, she's a porn star, making money for sex, having sex with multiple men and lives god-knows-where. Let's be realistic. Do you actually believe we will go out hunting for them?I've had a partner who used toys AND masturbated to porn. I wasn't jealous at all. She would always let me participate when I wanted. Now when the ladies decide that they would rather have the toy than their partners, I can see where that can cause problems. When I watch porn, I would love it if my girlfriend just decided to join in. I don't have a problem with toys or porn. I do have a problem with the double standard issue. If you can use your toy then we should be allowed to watch porn. It's the same thing. We're both fantasizing about being with someone else. Just like someone else stated below me. You won't fantasize about what's already real to you.
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reader, Sweet-thing +, writes (22 May 2012):
 Because woman can use a toy while she is alone in a bathroom with no one around. No images. No other men have to run around in her head. It's just her and the toy. It's more private and more personal. But porn is about other women entertaining an otherwise "committed" man and that feels much more like competition than a small vibrating object. When men watch porn, they're saying we're not pretty enough; our boobs aren't large enough, our ass not tight enough. It clearly registers in most women's heads that you are not satisfied with them, that we do not measure up to what you really want in a woman therefore you go looking elsewhere for excitement and eventually you will cheat. I'm not saying that is what actually happens, I'm saying that is what women tend to think. Whereas a toy is a quick fix. It's not a sexy, hunky naked man who is taller than you are, has more muscles, is better looking, more toned, more fit, and has a bigger penis. It is an inanimate object that vibrates and sends us over the edge. See the difference?
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2012): Oh and person12345 is right in a sense, a better comparison would be to ask a woman how she'd feel if you started using a soft tight fleshlight with a perfectly symmetrical vulva and tiny porn star labia.
Ask a woman how she'd feel knowing that it felt better and got you off quicker than her vagina.
That's a direct comparison right there.
Or a realdoll they're only plastic too.
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2012): Are you ready? Strap yourself in.
It's simple OP, feminism: the notion that one can bring about equality for all genders by only focusing on the issues of one gender.
Look it's not as black and white as that at all.
But it's interesting to note that the very fear guys who hate the idea of sex toys is actually true sometimes. "Because many women cannot orgasm without a vibrator and never have been able to or struggle immensely to get there. You may have noticed most women take a very long time orgasm (the average is 20-30 minutes) which can mean that it's a special occasion thing or that sex becomes work."
They quite simply are being replaced by a vibrator sexually because they can't satisfy their woman. They truly are not as good as vibrator to those women. Their man is inadequate sexually then because his penis is not as good as the fake penis.
It's okay to replace the penis with a bigger, vibrating version for a woman's fantasy but it's not okay to replace a woman's body with a younger more toned version for a guys fantasy.
Feminism.
And it all starts in sex ed, take 5 minutes to do a search on vibrators in relation to sex ed. and it's all 100% positive, they don't desensitize or anything like that, in fact they improve women's sexuality and they're thought this from their teenage years these days. No mention is ever made of the negative impact it can have on a man's psyche, search porn and education and you will see 100% negative things with one or two studies saying it reduces violent sexual urges in convicted sexual predators.
It all comes down to power OP. Control and domination of sexuality. We had it for centuries and now (some) women want to take over.
Things that we enjoy sexually; porn, young naked women in movies, women wearing revealing clothing on the street etc. All bad nowadays. If we guys like it, it has to be a horrible thing that's polluting our minds and destroying the planet, it's "objectification", "unhealthy", "slut shaming", "all porn is human trafficking" etc. Young beautiful women that show any skin in magazines, movies, anything are "causing" anorexia, body issues, sexualizing children, exploiting women, men's magazines use the language of rapists, the list goes on. Are you seeing the pattern here? Beautiful naked women are apparently destroying our world because we guys like to look at them fantasize about them etc. It's simple competition really and it's an exceptionally well thought out and well structured campaign to remove all traces of masculinity from the world, if it doesn't conform the feminist model of subservient masculinity.
But women's fantasies, sexuality are all positive, all of them. The electronic penis' they buy are "liberating" it's a tool that has brought great things to women and men just have to accept that, the erotic novels they read are "art" that embellish the mind with amazing things, the romance movies they watch are "quality entertainment", the revealing clothes they wear are fashion but you better not look at them in those clothes and admire them because that's wrong.
It really all boils down to one thing, domination; women's fantasies are healthy, positive and good. Our fantasies are not unless they're the kind that is vetted and approved by women first. We're not supposed to be allowed to use anything that involves a prettier woman, we're not allowed to enjoy the beauty of other women in any way sexually, in the future when we can track brain patterns to communicate with each other we won't be allowed think of other women either.
They want to control our sexuality, own it and not allow us a fantasy they don't approve of but we have to 100% accept all they're fantasies because otherwise we're just oppressive dogs.
Okay that rant was fun but OP it's mostly bullshit. While the above may be fun to read or anger people, it's all irrelevant to your life if you want it to be.
Trust me, just don't date insecure women, let other guys pander to that crap. Don't date a woman who has a hang up on porn either if you think you'll use it during the relationship. Don't be jealous of a vibrator if you can help it. It really is a piece of plastic, a tool that they use and if they can't orgasm any other way then pity them instead of being angry. I see so many woman that think they're substandard because they can't orgasm from sex, no need to be jealous if it's the only thing that works for them.
It might bring them to orgasm faster but for most it will never replace the real thing and if it does just kick them out and let them find another sap.
I don't know about America but here in Ireland porn doesn't seem to be that vile a thing. I've never dated a girl here, in England, Holland, Germany, Sweden etc. that actually had a problem with it. I really thought everyone was grand about it until I came to this site.
So Very Confused said it all in a very easy to digest way and what she says is true.
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (22 May 2012):
Says who?
Toys are to many women what your "right" hand is to you, when BY yourself and want a fast orgasm.
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (21 May 2012):
 It would really be helpful to see all those posts you reference, could you provide links? Thanks!
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reader, person12345 +, writes (21 May 2012):
Because many women cannot orgasm without a vibrator and never have been able to or struggle immensely to get there. You may have noticed most women take a very long time orgasm (the average is 20-30 minutes) which can mean that it's a special occasion thing or that sex becomes work. If you look at studies on this, generally the easier it is for a woman to orgasm, the higher her sex drive. Many women literally can't orgasm without a vibrator and never have been able to. If men had as difficult a time orgasming as many women do they'd be incredibly grateful for an aid as well. It's not uncommon to read questions from women in their 40's who have never had an orgasm, I've never heard the same from a man without a health problem. If a woman was choosing to masturbate with or without a vibrator instead of having sex I'd have similar advice as for porn. That she needs to cut it out.Also the majority of aunts on here berate and insult women for being upset by porn. When men write on aunts sometimes give them advice on how to lie to their partners and often tell them to dump her just for being upset. I'm not sure where you get the idea that most men give up their porn because most men use it regardless of their partners' feelings and most of them lie about it at least to some extent.Basically what it comes down to is that they are completely different things. Why compare vibrators and porn? Why not compare viagra, lube, cheating, even alcohol? There are male sex toys just like there are women who look at porn. They are all different things with different uses and different effects.
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reader, anonymous, writes (21 May 2012): My guess as to why some women have this double standard is maybe they only think of their boyfriend/husband while using it. On the other hand, their man is looking at and getting off on other naked women. They see the vibrator as harmless, because they are not getting off on the image of another man while using it. I'm not saying no woman fantasizes about other men while using her vibrator. I'm just saying the ones who DO only fantasize about their men are the ones who expect their men to give up porn. And that's why they don't see it as a double standard. In my opinion, it still is a double standard. That's because I am a married woman who occasionally fantasizes about other men. So I don't see anything wrong with my husband fantasizing about other women. He has me in real life, so why would he fantasize about me? A lot of people don't fantasize about reality. Maybe if I was one of those women who only thought of my husband, I would care what my husband thinks about. But I'm not, so I would never hold him to a standard that I can't live up to. It is simply unfair and selfish to expect your partner to only think of you if you're not only thinking of them.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (21 May 2012):
first of all porn and toy usage does not lead to less sex in our home.
secondly, men can orgasm pretty much at the drop of a hat while for most women it takes more effort... hence the NEED for toys.
Porn makes many women feel insecure
Toys make many men feel insecure.
Women see Porn as competition (usually not the case)
Men see toys as being better at pleasing their woman than they are (sadly often the case)
As long as the partners in the relationship agree that it's all or nothing or he can have porn and she can't have toys or she can have toys and he can't have porn, it's all good.
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