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writes: Hello.This is not a "problem" as such, but i have a question for the ladies.... TRUTHFULLY, how important are a mans looks in a relationship? I ask this for 2 reasons. Firstly women always say that its personality, kindness, empathy, sense of humour, being a good provider etc that makes a man attractive. Not in my experience, and at 42 i've had a lot of experience! I have a professional job,i own my house (and i mean own, not mortgaged)i've been kind and thoughtful, and i've made women laugh almost to the point of wetting themselves but have i ever "pulled" the really good lookers? no. I'm the first to admit that men are largely motivated by a womans looks, women however always seem to attach value to the other attributes but their actions seem to contradict their stated goal. Why?? I'm average looking, i'm not George Clooney/Brad Pitt/Johnny Depp but i'm certainly not king of the pig people either!! My second point is i have a theory that people seem to inhabit a "band" of physical attractiveness. Lets say there are 5 in total, A thru E. Group A being the "beautiful" people and E being people that are not attractive physically, be they old, fat or just "touched by the stick" as they say. Looking around ( and my experience too) people, in the main, seem to end up having a relationship with someone in their own band of attractiveness,largely regardless of any other factors, or one band either way. For example an average looking C grade person always ends up with a C, or maybe a B or D. Beautiful A grades only go with another A, or a B...etc etc. Yes there are exceptions, most notably the very rich man with the A grade looking woman, but again this fails to reinforce the mantra of what girls say they want, which in the main is consistently different from the day to day reality. Please advise, or is there a lot of saying one thing (because it sounds nice) but doing another going on?
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female
reader, Plexi  +, writes (26 October 2011):
 THEY JUST WANT TO PLAY WITH THE PRETTY BOY.......they know he is a player and irresponsible so they have no long term expectations from him............its just for fun! Women who want to have a family or a serious relationship will want a mature, responsible man not that guy!
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reader, anonymous, writes (26 October 2011): From what you have said it seems like you are holding out for someone who is *very* attractive and beautiful, but you don't hold yourself to that same standard and you can't attract that type of woman. It could be financial status, personality and other factors as well as or other than your looks also.
You're complaining that women claim they don't judge on looks but in reality many do that initially at least, because we also want someone we're attracted to. It's just human nature. You've dated many women but they're looks weren't good enough for you apparently and so maybe that was the most important factor to you.
You're judging women for what you are doing yourself. My advice would be to take good care of yourself if you're not in good shape, just for your own health if not to be more attractive. I would skip the nose job for sure, no one should do that. Try reassessing your standards of beauty for men and women, stop using the media as your guide, stope using numbers and letters to define people's looks and start to see all of the beautiful people out there.
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female
reader, shrodingerscat  +, writes (25 October 2011):
 My first answer wasn't allowed through. Possibly it was too harsh. Let me soften up my answer but still maintain what I was attempting to say.You say yourself that you are not that good looking, that you avoid the gym and you have a big nose. You won't DO anything to change your appearance, YET...you expect a perfect 10 woman to be attracted to you. -YOU- have a standard for your partner's looks that you will not uphold yourself. That's a double standard. And that is probably why you are single.Do -not- expect a perfect 10 supermodel woman to like you for your personality when the first and most important thing you are interested in is how she looks. That is NOT FAIR.Lower your standards, since you won't make yourself more attractive, that's your only option. If you're a 4, then date other 4's. Be aware of the fact that your shallowness and double standards are preventing you from finding a partner you can be happy with.Hopefully my answer will go through because I believe honesty is extremely important in situations like this, because so far no one else has talked about your double-standard in looks yet and I believe that is the one major reason you are single.Either go to the gym and fix your nose so you can attract other beautiful people, or be happy with someone "in your league". Perfect 10 supermodels go to the gym...you should too.
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (25 October 2011):
 Well, if you are a couch potato you attract other couch potatoes. Looking good in this meaning is a life style and about whether or not you are physically active, and not about how "handsome" you are or not. It appears a lot of less attractive men and women mix "healthy" with "beautiful/handsome". Working out and taking care of your body and health is not being vain, and being attracted to a good-looking body isn't really about being vain or going after looks either. Because in this respect, how you look define how you live.
If you are fat then you can't go on hikes, be active, eat healthy, do activities etc. Sorry, but if you are unhealthy that is a personality quality that is reflected in your appearance. It's got nothing to do with being handsome or shallow.
For illustrational purposes, it's not necessarily attractive if theres a thin and handsome man who lives unhealthy, only drinks coke and plays online games. On the other hand there are people who are healthy and work-out and take care of themselves who the world does not look to as "pretty/handsome", yet they will attract seemingly healthy individuals.
Saying healthy is the same as attractive is mixing two completely different qualities.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (25 October 2011):
 Thing is, men and women.... judge anyone they meet in the first maybe 15 seconds? and what do we all judge on, given the short time? Looks. Looks are just not enough to keep a most women interested long term.
Some say that VERY masculine men likes VERY feminine women. It's the whole "white knight symdrome" And some women confuses dirtbag attitude with manliness/protector.
Part of it I believe is purely chemical.
I think something like attraction is very personal and has great variations. And thank goodness for that :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 October 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThankyou for all those candid and thoughtful replies. I did fully appreciate before posting the question that attraction is a mix of different qualities, physical & psychological. You may be surprised to know that men do take personality into account, but looks are a big thing for them and men openly admit that, which is my point. In my experience the qualities that women stress are important often seem to contradict the qualities of the men they end up with. For example i know a man who has a dead end job, has a string of broken relationships ( & children from same), he treats women like dirt but they go to him because he is a classically handsome man. Sure, one day when he is old his luck will run out but thats not the point. I'm intelligent with a good & interesting job flying a private jet around, but i've never had the success with the ladies he has had purely because i don't have muscles and a sixpack and have a bit of a big nose. I'm not vain enough to have a nose job, or join a gym and pump iron (gyms are dreadful places imho) and if many women are what they say they are, i.e attracted to other qualities, then i should not have to. I hope you can see my point. Sometimes i think its a bit like the "girls dont masturbate" thing. What women like/do and what they say they like/do can sometimes be very different. Anyways, thanks again.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 October 2011): Nice question…I agree with you that most people do tend to end up with people who fall within their own stratum of attractiveness. But I also think that in general, people also self-select for education and wealth as well. I would agree with you that women are more flexible in their standards of what they think is attractive. This explains why so many of us go through a bisexual point in our lives. I think men are more likely to have a type and stick to it. I think fewer women know what a “good looker” is to them. However, most women appreciate novelty. We are more willing to date someone or a type that we haven’t before for the sheer novelty. I’m not so sure men are the same way.The best way to attract women is to amp your novelty. Those exceptions you spoke of: men defying their stratum; the Grade A women going with an average looking guys; you reduce this to the men being rich and these women perhaps being materialistic. I would be willing to bet that in a lot of cases, those rich guys are wealthy because they extraordinarly talented or gifted in some way and that is what is in part attractive. I’m not saying you should quit your day job and start acting, but if you do have a talent….even a hobby, wear it on your sleeve. Talk about that instead of your possessions and your job. Seriously… musicians, soccer players, runners, people who do things and do things well are sexy.Are looks important for me? Somewhat. Sometimes I surprise myself by what I’m attracted to. For instance, at the moment, I’m crushing big time on a very sweet and funny bald guy who’s an inch shorter than me. This is new for me because ordinarily I tend to go for bears. A couple years ago, it was my hypertensive 60 something year old boss, he was difficult to work with, but very smart. Doesn’t mean I would pursue them or show my interest, but it is where my interest lies and from what I can tell, I am all over the map and I don’t have a type. Most of my female friends are the same way.I’ve also got to agree with Janniepeg that personality DOES influence your looks. Are you so preoccupied with your appearance that you feel the need to gel your hair excessively? Do you tuck your shirt in or not? What sort of clothes do you wear and how? Do you have a holistic sense of yourself; do you eat well and exercise? Or do you take steroids? There’s lots of a ways your personality influences the way you physically appear.I think your expectation that women should be attracted to your stable professional job and your house (not mortgaged) might be what actually gets in the way of you making real connections with women, even the good looking ones. Some women do look for these things in men. Others get turned off (myself included) when a man hangs these details out as lures. Some women see it as a tacky gesture and it can make the guy appear boring because his expectations of women’s curiosity are so low. Women are more likely to compromise their physical attraction for men, but I think that compromise has a lot to do with what sort of companion we can potentially admire in the man.
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 October 2011): This is the most complicated/ challenging question ever!To make a girl like you sometimes takes more than a good looking boy or attracting look.The attracting look is important of course but most important is the personality, the self confidence, the not "too kind looser or negative personality". Most girls prefer the "Alpha" personality and tend to dump the "beta/ kind" ones unfortunately. So I'd say personality in the end is what counts most beside the physical attraction (body/ sexuality). The look and dress can be impressive in the beginning but if you don't have the specific above mentioned characters some girls would think that you are "fake" and fly!
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (24 October 2011):
 I will not lie... I can't go with a troll looking fellow... BUT how I define bad looking is quite different from everyone else.Personally a great personality can go a long way in making a person attractive.Oh and for the record I hate the way George Clooney looks. and I think Brad Pitt is funny looking. Johnny Depp's good looks come totally from his personality btw...People grow on you. Yes there are people that are striking to MOST folks. My younger son at age 25 is very tall with dark skin and brooding eyes... Girls his age find him attractive (tall dark and handsome) women my age think he's drop dead gorgeous... my current beau is not tall... he was too thin when we met and started dating.. his teeth are bad, he dresses terribly, he wears his hair way too short.... and yet yesterday when driving in the car he pulled up next to me in our other car and I glanced over and he smiled at me and it melted my heart and I thought "if he wasn't already mine I'd want that...it's CUTE"BUT he WAS NOT cute a year ago when we started dating... Did you ever see the movie Shallow Hal? How we present ourselves, how we carry ourselves, how we feel about ourselves has a LOT to do with how we are percieved.
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female
reader, Elydiese  +, writes (24 October 2011):
I think most people men and women have to be attracted to someone, looks wise its not being shallow or vain its just natural to be attracted to your partner personality is what keeps a relationship and and going though you cant base a relationship on just looks so both are important, its just in time looks fade so personality soon becomes more important
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female
reader, adamantine  +, writes (24 October 2011):
 Personally, I have to be attracted to someone if I want to be romantically involved with them. However, my idea of attractive is going to be different from say, my next door neighbour.
I'll give you an example. My significant other and I were friends before we started dating. We were both seeing other people at the time. To be honest, I thought he was okay looking, but I wasn't attracted to him. He was however a very funny person. He was great to talk to, always insightful and we had some great conversations. After we both broke up with our partners, we became closer. This is when he started to open up to me and share more details of his life. This is when I really got to know him as a person. This is when he became attractive to me.
So you see... its not all about physical. You can be attracted to someone for their mind + soul, and not just their body. However, because I am attracted to his mind + soul, I find every part of him physically beautiful and appealing.
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female
reader, xTheAlmightyDuckx +, writes (24 October 2011):
 I always find myself getting attracted to a boys personality before looks, it might sound wierd but i can fall in love with someones sense of humour before i take into concideration what they look like if that makes sense.
I am highly attracted to men who have good sense of humours and overall have a great personality even though many women say oh looks don't matter to me are normanally lieing i mean come on you have to be attracted to someone pyhiscally to get anywhere in a relotionship.
I do agree with your theroy on the whole A grade goes with A grade thing i would rate myself as a C and i wouldn't want to go out with someone who was an A grade in looks simpley because i guess i would worry that this person simpley wouldn't find me as attractive as other girls and it would kind of feel like we were chalk and cheese.
However i wouldn't go with a F either in looks simply because i feel it would be the same just the other way round.
I know alot of girls who are stunning and will say "oh looks don't matter to me" but then you think well why do you only go out with guys who appear to have nothing in the head and muscels bigger than a car?
For me looks do matter but if someone wasn't much of a looker but had a great personality then yeah they would defointly win me over but if someone who was really fit came along and didn't have anything in there head i guess it would really be a no go for me but hey thats just me.
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female
reader, pinktopaz +, writes (24 October 2011):
Everyone is different...there are some women that wouldn't put looks first. BUT you did want honesty, and yes, I tend to be one of those shallow people and will date a man based on his looks. HOWEVER, I dated a very handsome man almost a year ago--he turned out to be a tremendous d-bag and he got kicked to the curb fast, and that was only after 2 dates! I've dated some good looking guys and some had good personalities and others not so much. I've tried dating guys that I didn't think were that attractive and were super smart and funny, but the thought of even kissing them turned me off.
And what you say is true, people in the same "looks category" usually end up together. I learned in a Human Sexuality class I took that people are usually naturally attracted to those that are of the same attractiveness as them. Of course you'll still be attracted to people that are more attractive than yourself, but people tend to know when someone is "out of their league."
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 October 2011): Looks are important to me. I have a specific look I like which is a tall man on the lean side with a beautiful face and usually an aquiline nose. I have dated men of all different looks but this is the one I generally end up with and they seem to gravitate to me also. Looks alone will not be enough for me though if the character, personality and love aren't there also. The more you love someone the more beautiful they are to you. What is beautiful to one person isn't to another.
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female
reader, Gabbystar +, writes (24 October 2011):
A man who is honest, faithful, funny and smart is irrestible. Looks is only 10% of the total package.
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female
reader, 1sunshine +, writes (24 October 2011):
 For me... Looks are the first attraction when meeting a guy. Next there has to be chemestry felt between us. Then you get to know their personality and them having confidence is an A+. I love when a guy has a good sense of humor and makes me laugh. As far as physical characteristics... everyone has their own idea of what they would like. When I see most couples walking down the street together (example) ... usually I find that their looks are pretty compatable.
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female
reader, Shadow Rose +, writes (24 October 2011):
 I think it depends on personality, and what that specific female finds attractive. For example, one woman can have a "thing" for blue eyes, so she'd prefer a man with blue eyes, but the blue eyed man with a good personality would be picked.Another example is: I myself prefer guys who are tall, not too muscled, pale, black long hair, blue or green eyes, and glasses, physically. My boyfriend has all those traits, but some of my friends didn't like my bf at first, because they thought he wasn't good looking. I on the other hand, think he's hot. So yeah, I guess looks do play a role, but to an extent. For example, if a girl knows a guy with a great personality and so-so looks, she might eventually fall for him. And some younger women ( aged 13-35 probably) want to try and get a super hot boyfriend, because, especially around the ages 14-26, they are a little more interested in physical relationships.lol, hope I made sense to you! I felt a little like I was babbling there!
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female
reader, Plexi +, writes (24 October 2011):
Of course personality and confidence are faaaaaar more important then looks and they can even help a man become more attractive in a woman's eyes............with time! but that initial attraction has to be physical AS WELL unless you are 80 and just looking for a partner more then a lover/partner. I was recently watching a documentary about attraction and they said that if a woman is still fertile, she will be attracted to a man physically first and once she enters menopause then looks become less and less important.
I am 34 yo and although yes, I need there to be physical attraction and chemistry, I would rather have a handsome man who is confident and honest and funny,etc then a hot man who is shallow and immature........:)
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (24 October 2011):
 It's the personality that makes a person look good because one's personality affects how one looks. It's not just the physicals you can see, it's also the energy and vibe you feel in a person. Combined together is what makes people attracted to each other. I can be attracted to a "not good looking man", here it means not ugly, not average but likeable in a weird sense. While at the same time a handsome man could do nothing for me if chemistry isn't right. For me, a confident, ugly person is more attractive than a handsome man with self esteem issues. I prefer bigger men slightly overweight over thin or average weight. Oh I am of average weight and short. I sometimes find certain obese individuals attractive when they are wearing suits. That's my taste. Handsome is not a must. But he has to be masculine looking, meaning a big face, small eyes, big nose, wide jaw, thick neck, big fleshy ears.
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female
reader, Miss.Me +, writes (24 October 2011):
 Physical characteristics are important, but what makes women (or me) stick around is the personality and intangible qualities. There's been guys I've thought were average looking at first, but then after noticing some of their nonphysical qualities, I've wanted to get to know them even more. So how they looked on the outside got transformed into something better when I saw how funny they are, how kind and considerate they were, etc.
I'm in college, and for me, what makes me first notice a guy is how intelligent they are, their sense of humour, things like that. Those are the guys I want to get to know. There may be hot or very good looking guys in the class, but if their personality is unattractive, then I'm just going to forget about them.
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female
reader, charliesdevil73 +, writes (24 October 2011):
 Well, you are right in the fact that people end up with others that are just as attractive as they believe they are. There have been many studies that prove that. So, yes, us women do take other factors into consideration when picking who we date, but looks also play a part. For example, I think I'm a 6-7 and I think my husband is a 7 so I stayed with someone like me. But, the studies also show that people will stray up to two numbers in either direction. For instance, if you feel you are a 5 you have a chance to get with someone who is a 3-7 which is a big range. I know this was more scientific than you were looking for, but I thought I would opt for science than the usual "no, looks don't really matter" when science obviously proves they do.
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (24 October 2011):
Looks are just as important to some women as it is to some men: "i've made women laugh almost to the point of wetting themselves but have i ever "pulled" the really good lookers"
Some care a lot, others don't care as much, but to one degree or the other we all do care. And then it's a matter of taste as well. Is looks everything and all? By far not. But like it is with most things, there needs to be a healthy balance. He doesn't need to be a real hunk, as long as he is beautiful to the one person who matters, and not butt ugly. Then again there's always beauty from the inside, which isn't a lie.
If you haven't pulled the "good lookers" then I think that says a lot more about you and how you judge peoples appearances than it says about your own looks and how women judge you. I've dated men I think are real hunks, and then none of my friends agree with me. But who cares, I'm the one admiring them up close, not my friends. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, really.
Then you get down to what ATTRACTS a woman. And this isn't always about looks. This is where a sense of humour etc. comes into play. And what will matter most here depends on the individual. Maybe men are more driven by appearance, you said so, and to some degree I think so too give or take some exceptions. But women don't go all by looks. Some go by looks. Others judge money and stability to be more important. Others again judge morals and values and chemistry to be more important. For some it's all about family approval. For others it's about personal growth and doing something unique.
Who you pick as a partner is very much a choice on what sort of life you lead and what is important to you.
I will add a final last note on the matter, it is my experience that good looking, and now I mean generally good looking men who 90% of women will agree are good looking, are usually pompous. It's rare to meet a good looking man who is genuinely nice as a person. So it would surprise me actually if a good looking man is with a genuinely wonderful woman, because he's typically so pompous that no genuine woman would want him. Instead he typically ends up with the no brained barbie-doll, who you might want to place on your A-list, but I'd not place her there, not when half of her is plastic or fake.
There's a difference between media-pretty and natural beauty.
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female
reader, fi_the_tree +, writes (23 October 2011):
 I'll admit, i have said time and time again 'it's about personality etc etc' but truthfully, it is about looks. There has to be a physical attraction for a relationship to be real. If there is no attraction, then the couple would be better off just being friends in my opinion.
Classic example is on dating websites, i trawled through hundreds of profiles, and i'm sure lots of guys looked at mine, saw my pictures and then contacted me to tell me that they thought i was beautiful (i don't particularly think i'm beautiful, but i don't think i'm ugly either) but for me to actually message them back, i had to find them attractive in their picture...simple as.
All the other things you have mentioned play an important role aswell, but looks are at the forefront of any relationship. Time and time again, people post questions on this site like:
"I've put on weight and now my partner doesn't find me attractive!"
"How do i make myself more appealing to the opposite sex?"
"I want him/her to notice me!"
In essence, looks are the most important thing in any relationship. Us ladies can say over and over again that they're not, but deep down, they are!
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (23 October 2011):
Usually that is the first thing you notice about someone, their looks. I have met many people in my life who weren't exactly lookers but they exuded such selfconfidence and humor you don't notice their looks. Some people just grow on you.For some looks mean nothing, others everything.For some money means nothing for others everything.. See what I mean?There isn't a set standard as to how we should all look or what we are all in general attracted too.I sincerly think that men are more "vain" (in lack of a better term) about their partner'd looks then women are.
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female
reader, natasia +, writes (23 October 2011):
 What that thing about 'he must be nice' means is:If he is beautiful but horrible, after a while he will seem unattractive, despite his physical advantages.It doesn't totally swing the other way, though. If a guy is really nice but not physically attractive, that doesn't make it ok. A guy first and foremost needs, as you say, I think, to be in the same band of attractiveness as the woman is. And then, added to that, he needs to be decent (or, at least to seem so enough to get her in the first place). So yes, physical attractiveness is generally the prerequisite for everything - but remember, that is a subtle and personal thing - the chemistry between two people is more based on them being similar.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (23 October 2011): everyone's appearance is important, guys and girls. no one wants to get with someone that they find hideous. But the important thing to note is that if you like someone, they will seem more attractive to you than they might to other people. the other features you mentioned are all positives and are important of course, but honestly, they are probably not as important as looks as far as first impressions and initial attraction goes. People are more likely to give an attractive guy a chance than an unattractive one (and same for women). things like good personality, kindness, good sense of humour, those all make the relationship last, but you don't find out about those things until you have gotten to know one another, and your chances of doing that are limited if you can't make a good first impression to start with.
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