A
male
age
36-40,
*lphamalesyndrome
writes:Hi guys AND girls,I've read a lot on DC about retroactive jealousy, or "his / her sexual past", and people having problems with it. Some very smart people here have made some very good suggestions on how to deal with it. The thing is, that it seems to be impossible to ever completely get over it...you just have to live with it, kind of like when your foot gets amputated from diabetes, or you find out you have HIV and you just learn to cope. But why would you do that when it comes to a girl's sexual past? I can understand guys doing so if they, say, found out after a few years of marriage and have kids together. Basically by then you've forfeited your life anyway, and might as well make the best of it and live for the kids. But a lot of guys seem to stay with her because they have low self-esteem AND little experience with women. They probably think they can't get anything better. In that case, why not invest the energy it would take to overcome her slutty past into working on your self esteem, your personality, and finding a better woman? They ARE out there. And they are worth finding. I could not see myself dealing with the pain of having a wife (ModNote: word used to describe wife substituted with: "with different morals to me") for the rest of my life -- I already have to fight so much in the business world, that I need absolute harmony in my love life.I struggled with this issue for years. The only thing that ever helped me was a guide I bought over at http://www.SheWasA****.com — the author was the first I’ve ever seen that gave a complete and accurate description of what we go through, why we go through it....and how to deal with it. He doesn't say "leave *****!", mind you; he just gives you a framework within which you can make a decision that's right for you. And for me, the decision to not date such girls is definitely the right one.Please don't reply with those rational arguments as to how it's in the past and if it's real love it doesn't matter, etc. That has been discussed and debunked at length here at DC.
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male
reader, aresu  +, writes (30 May 2012):
 a lot of people dont like their partners sexual past, is just that most of them have learned to keep quiet about it because of this very same issue: because people think that this is a mental dissorder. people who do care about their partners past know this and they say nothing. i have yet to find someone -at least where i live- that doesnt mind at all their partners past, they have learned to not let it bother them but it they certainly dont like it, at least the people who are looking for a serious relationship mind, the only onone that i know taht prefer experience is when they are just looking to get laid. but i talk about this kinds of things to young people, around my age, i dont know if maybe older people are different, who knows, but at least i do know my share of people in real life who have a problem with their partners sexual past. just as some of you have only seen this problem in internet, i have seen people who dont mind, but only in internet, i have yet to find someone who says to me that they dont mind at all.in fact, a lot of male friends that i know of sleep around only because they know that is useless to dont do it and wait for someone special, because they know that most girls have a past already, so they dont feel the need to wait if their special someone doesnt either.and as someone else siad here already, yes there is a misconception that the new modern and sexually liberated society favors men more than women, and that is not true, women have a much easier time getting laid than men do, as long as she is not so unnatractive she can get laid almost for sure if she wants. a man needs more than looks to get laid, even if he was very good looking the man needs to be charming and know how to attract women to get laid. so i think that in these time is actually easier to find virgin men than women.but i dont have a problem if people give a hard time to about RJ to people who have a past themselves and judge someone else when they dont measure up to their own standards. i have a problem when people who have kept themslevs chaste and are looking for chaste partners get a hard time for it. and this heppens more against men than women, people immediately assume a man is sexst if he is looking for a virgin, it doesnt matter if he is one too, if they hear he is in fact looking for someone chaste they dont care and will just bash him and label him a sexist biggot. this happens to women too, but not as frequently, in most cases is a girl wants a chaste partner she get reassurance that someday she will get it, and even if she does get bashed for it, is more for calling her naive and narrow minded, but is mostly men who get the bad stigma when they are looking for a virgin partner.and that is the problem i have with this new sexually liberated society, i dont give a damn if people want to go to have sex, but not only the poeple who want chaste partners will have a more difficult time finding someone, but they will be treated poorly along the way because of it. people dont want to get judged from their past, but they judge people who are looking for someone without a sexual past, and they say that they can have sex with whoever they want, and is true, but the people looking for virgin partners have the choice too, and they should not compromise to anyone for it, specially people who dont want to be responsible and accept that their actions will turn other people off.
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male
reader, mr.goodguy +, writes (25 April 2012):
 Please all that commented on this please give me some advise .....I'm hurting very badly inside and it's not easy ..please read my posts
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (14 April 2012): Doc H here
I disagree with the anon about being punished for honesty;
If either partner finds a dealbreaker or incompatibility in the other- breaking up is the honest thing to do, so both people can find someone else. So if someone asked an RJS if they had RJ and walked off- then certainly that is the best outcome for them both- as it means they were never really compatible. And of course, the reverse is true also- if someone is or did something the other wouldn't accept- then breaking up is the best outcome for both.
It would be worse if either partner LIED to the other to falsely secure their relationship. In my opinion that is far worse than cheating, because you tricked another person out of their own life, independence and chance to find a better partner for themselves, and to giving their lives to you- a person who never even existed within the relationship.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2012): There seems to be a common opinion among several of the women here, and on RJ topics in general: "Men with RJ should come right out with it from the start of the relationship, so that I can rudely walk off without wasting my time on them."
How is this acceptable? Asking men with RJ to be respectful and openly honest about themselves with you . . . so that you can respond by being disrespectful and not open with them when you don't like what they say?
If you want respect and honesty then you should be willing to show the other person the same. If the other person's values don't match yours, that is fine, you don't have to date each other.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2012): Doc H here
janniepeg, Yes and no.
It's that comparatively (to their partner) abstinent people have an actual basis to have RJ or any compatibility problems with partners- RJ sufferers who weren't so- don't have any.
As for relationships- what you mentioned earlier (about deception creating unrealistic standards) leaves the deceived party holding themselves to these very standards too, and put in the wrong kind of energies than they otherwise would have bothered.
Many people resent being held to higher standards than their partner had for themselves or previous partners, or being treated differently to casual partners. And it seems, in a LOT of relationships, that is exactly what happens. They feel like they are missing out- which in many respects, they are. They are being treated differently.
Luckily for me these days, I never even get approached by women who divide ONS-material and LTR-material- and mostly demand both from me. And I've never been bothered by their history (for half, very little- the other half, probably a lot).
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female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (13 April 2012):
 Doc H, to make it easier to understand, this is what you said. Men who have RJs but also had a lot of partners are in no position to judge, and have more reason to get rid of RJ. Men who stayed chaste, either because they can't get any girls, or haven't found the right one yet, are okay to judge women who had a past and feel entitled to know about a woman's past.
I do get what you are saying. I won't date smokers. Even for smokers who had quit there could be life long damage in the organs. Let's say it will take 20 years of not smoking and juice fasting to get rid of all the junk and to rejuvenate new cells. Would 20 years of a being a faithful spouse change anything? Or is that person doomed to repent sins for the rest of his/her life? You are saying you won't have a woman with a past, let other morally loose men have her, or you just won't take a chance? Or really are you thinking that you are short changing yourself when you date a woman with a past because you yourself perservered in abstinence, you worked hard at it and you deserved to have someone the same? What if someone had casual sex then later developped the patience and independence for a real relationship?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2012): Doc H again
I've noticed that people that are NOT RJSs and have great dislike for RJSs in general, are part of the problem as they are setting a lot of ridiculous standards- that are usually selfish and hypocritical 'a "real man" tells himself he is a bad person and just WRONG- and holds it in for the enjoyment of others' (in reality- you'd just be weak).
Usually, these non-RJSs convince themselves that RJ stems solely from some antiquated christian misogyny tied to insecurity about the sexual performance in the sufferer- (ignoring the overwhelming cases where neither were true).
Interestingly, this judgement (yes, it's judgement) about RJ creates a special paradox double-standard.
-Honesty about history to the partner is fine- UNLESS the recipient is an RJS- then they'd just judge so you only lied to 'protect yourself from judgement' (ie a few mean words- or you both have to date someone else instead rather than lie to him so he'd keep giving you what YOU wanted, and you give him lies in return to keep him interested)
-Its ok to have meaningless sex in your past- UNLESS the person is (or was) an RJ sufferer- then he's a hypocrite for going against his (supposed christian) morals while (supposedly) still holding his misogynistic beliefs- rather than making an honest attempt to change to drop the standard (like the last guy- got judged by sick people projecting prejudices instead).
And of course- anyone that suffers RJ and actually tries to appease these judgements, is a wimp and a coward (unless they actually DID live up to them- ignoring most RJ sufferers that have come here and other sites were not by a long shot).
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (12 April 2012):
To prefer a woman with fewer sexual partners is normal, but to constantly torture yourself mentally with images of other men on her, and to shame your partner about it, is not. Male reader, it's good that you are the calm and collected one here. I wonder how many women you actually talked to. I imagine if a man asked me how many men I've had. If I like that guy I would smile, be polite and ask why do you need to know. If I trust him enough I would be open to tell him the truth. If instinctively I don't really like the guy I would frown without knowing or I might even say something that turns him off.
I prefer ice cream to sorbet. No need to get personal about that. But when someone starts to use the slut word to distinguish good women from bad women that's when people get upset here.
I don't think society has become more loose. When you say it's hard to find women with chaste values anymore it is like saying the economy is bad, all jobs are being exported, therefore I give up looking for jobs. What about women on dearcupid who complain that no men wants a serious relationship anymore? Don't these women exist for you? I think when you concentrate so much on women's wrongdoings, that's what you are going to get in real life.
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (12 April 2012):
That RJ term can be a misnomer. What are men really jealous of if they disdain a woman's past? I think a true RJ is a person who thinks a woman with a past is a lesser human being, they refuse to think rationally and will never recover from RJ because to admit they have a problem is a wimp, and to stand by their beliefs is heroic and manly.
I would stand by a man with RJ if he has more to do in life than putting me down, and is affectionate and loving in many ways. A man with serious RJ would not get past a first date, or even a phone call. If a man has RJ I encourage him to go full throttle at the beginning, go ahead with your questions about penises, men of different sizes and color, so I could know the real you. Why wait until marriage to berate me and torture me with more questions.
I would be wary of dating a man with 50+ partners too. It's only common sense when someone did something extreme it raises questions. I don't have a problem with people with common sense. I have a problem with men with the madonna virgin/whore complex, men who think that a wife is saintly, should not be sexual, and should not give me blow jobs because she is going to kiss the kids later; and that a woman who had a past could never be a good mother.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (12 April 2012):
 Male anon, first off, if you're going to write about biological determinism, you should at least get terminology right. Female is not a gender. Female and male are sexes, biologically determined. Men and women are genders, social constructs. There is nothing innate about masculinity and femininity (it varies wildly across cultures).No one attacks "maleness" in our society. There are some critiques of masculinity, but this whole "attack on men" thing is ridiculous. The world is almost totally run by men and psychology is still male dominated. You think predominantly male psychologists are attacking and hurting themselves?You are confusing several important things in your last paragraph. You make the claim that because some men experience something, that it is therefore healthy, normal, and natural. RJ is not normal, it is only experienced in a form that interferes with their lives by a small percentage of people. It is not healthy simply because men experience it, it causes enormous problems for its sufferers that handicap them from having normal relationships. Is it "natural," maybe, but so are all other disorders. When did natural suddenly become a synonym for good?You are simply trying to explain why men's experiences are somehow more legitimate than women's experiences. P.S. women experience RJ too.As previously stated by other aunts, RJ is a form of OCD (which IS in the DSM). It does not suddenly become healthy simply because it is predominantly men who experience it. It is a legitimate problem that needs help and RJ sufferers should seek that help if they can afford it. It can be a seriously devastating state to be in and often finding a virgin will not help that condition.Finding a virgin has nothing to do with evolution. The whole concept of virginity is an entirely socially manufactured idea. It is not a physical condition or anything that can be known without asking or a doctor's exam (and even then, not necessarily). It is a social state of being, not a biological one. This is one of those reasons evolutionary psychology is not taken seriously by the actual psychology world. It only exists to take modern problems that men experience and speculates on why they might have happened. It's only purpose is to perpetuate outdated and misogynistic ideas. It basically seeks to soothe men's egos by stating that it's OK for them to be sexist because they are simply wired that way (despite a complete lack of science to back that claim up). It is much more related to philosophy than to science. Several of my friends have PhDs in psychology and when I asked them what they thought about evolutionary psychology they all looked at me like I'd sprouted a second head.I'd like to also point out there is a difference between RJ sufferers and people with differing morals. RJ sufferers are not making a rational choice about their beliefs, they simply struggle to cope with the idea that their partner has had sex with or cared about another person. In some cases RJ sufferers even struggle to think about friendships and non-sexual experiences their partner has had before or without them. If someone has some kind of spiritual reason to care about virginity, that's one thing. If someone is simply overwhelmed with despair at the thought of their partner having a past, that is a completely different situation.Like SVC BRILLIANTLY said below, women have not become "loose." Women have begun to approach (though still aren't even close) the level of sexual freedom men have always had. The number of sex partners for the average woman is 4-5 through her entire life, for men it's 5-6."Part of understanding RJ involves accepting that the 21st century culture is not as focused on serving the male psyche as many women believe it is. "Yes except for the fact that male is still considered default human (for instance medical trials mostly use men and assume everything affects women differently, which is part of why many women do not notice the signs of heart attacks and strokes well and more die as a result) and that men are disproportionately represented in TV and movies and plays and just entertainment in general, men still make up the majority of positions in high paid and powerful jobs, men still make up the majority of political positions, etc... Men are in control of the entertainment industry, period, and make most of the laws, so who exactly is it who is neglecting men?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): Cerberus explained why women so seldom run across it. It's not uncommon, men are just generally shamed into hiding it. It's not a universal male trait (what is?) but it is common enough to rate as completely normal.
The RJ problem has also gotten more intense & common since the sexual revolution opened the floodgates on female sexuality. The average woman probably has more partners than ever before. At the same time, the men with strong RJ feelings are finding it increasingly socially unacceptable to even look for a woman with chaste values anymore. It's a recipe to make the problem much more common and severe than it used to be. Men have not changed, the world has changed around us very abruptly.
There is also the misconception that modern society serves men so much better than women. That makes it harder for women to believe that something so troubling and common for men could ever be swept under the rug and oppressed. But it's true. Part of understanding RJ involves accepting that the 21st century culture is not as focused on serving the male psyche as many women believe it is. Certainly not in the area of relationships and sex.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): Why are some people taking this personally? People have different preferences. That's all.
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (12 April 2012):
 If RJ was so normal, healthy, and genetically predetermined in males, I guess by now I would have met RJ sufferers IRL and been on the receiving hand of their compulsions.
Never happened to me.
That this may have been because no men ever really gave a fuck about me enough to be jealous of my past would be a rather depressing explanation : ) but luckily it would also be factually inaccurate.
In fact, I never came across RJ IRL, period. In the life of anybody I know.
This does not mean that RJ does not exists ,obviously- Just that, statistically, is not so common , frequent or relevant, so how can it be " normal " , genetically engineered behaviour ?. Same as OCD is a deviation of normal, functional thought process, so must be RJ, that sounds like being a part of OCD or responding to the same
mechanisms. OCD can be treated, monitored, contained, and often successfully CURED. So, I guess , is RJ, and sufferers would profit more from spending their time seeking appropriate professional / medical help rather than writing to DC, which, don't get me wrong, they are welcome to do as much as they wish if they wish, but which ultimately won't change anything and will only aggravate their frustration for the lack of response that they- in their warped thinking- expect and demand.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (12 April 2012):
 How in the world is the OCD/irrational behavior associated with RJ a male trait?
what trait are you trying to associate it with and make it a positive?
how in the world is RJ about effective reproduction.
IF RJ was a male trait then wouldn't ALL men have it?
IF RJ was a male trait then why do women get it?
Sorry I do not buy your arguments that RJ is a genetic predisposition to sustain the race.
I do think that RJ is a part of OCD
I do think that men with RJ have self-esteem issues and insecurity about themselves.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): RJ is never going to understood by many people in this day and age. The roadblock to understand RJ is that being male is not considered normal and healthy anymore. Certain male traits that don't serve an obvious useful purpose to society (today), and don't make sense (to women), are viewed as signs of mental problems.
In saying this, I am not trying to make a joke or a smart ass remark. I am not trying to insult the female gender either. I am being serious and I am trying to move the conversation forward in a productive way. I know it sounds jarring, but try to think over and accept what I am saying. It is possible for a trait to be useless, problematic, and illogical to women, and yet still 100% normal for healthy men to have it.
Try to remember that evolution is not here to make anyone happy. It only wants effective reproduction, nothing more.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): I could squeeze this issue down even further;
Shame a partner for their past if either
-they were honest about it all along
-you have a past yourself
You are a wimp
Shame YOURSELF for having RJ- you are also a wimp (and a much bigger wimp too I might add).
Suffer through it simply because you have a COUPLE of things in common with you partner, is semi-nice to you, and really you don't want to be single again?
Wimp.
Shame the RJ sufferers who actually have a backbone, clear understanding of their own needs, and constructive ideas to get around it rather than contain it so not to upset others? you are also a wimp, including non-RJ sufferers, who arguably who can't handle the idea of a partner not subverting their needs to facilitate YOUR personal wants.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 April 2012): I see your point Chigirl.
I did come across this a little while ago, it's quite good. Written by a woman too (not that that makes any difference).
http://retroactivejealousy.blogspot.com/
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (11 April 2012):
 I never heard of or dealt with RJ in real life either. I've also heard about it here on dearcupid, but I am going to have to say that suffering from RJ is just as irregular as suffering from OCD. RJ appears in many ways to be a form of OCD. Sure, it exists, but it isn't the norm. People don't usually have this issue. If so, then it would be odd that it is only men who complain about it, as women have every ability to be jealous as well.
So it probably has less to do with natural behavior, and more to do with learned behavior. Anyway, the term retrograde (or retroactive) jealousy appears to be more of a pop-psych term than a real life diagnosis.
I think there is a chance that when you yourself have suffered through something you find it comforting to know there are others like you. I was schizoid as a child. Extremely rare. Yet sure, I too can go online and find tons of people who were like me. But it doesn't mean it is in any way common.
The internet does not reflect the real world in a precise manner. Only a small portion of people world wide have the internet. Only a small portion seek out these specific pages. When people type in RJ they might get a link to dearcupid, and so they come here. Just because they gather here does not mean they reflect the proportion of men in the real world who think in this manner.
"It's all female based, the majority of statistics are based on counting the victims, because you're not exactly going to have a lot of guys stepping forward to admit that to anyone."
You're going to have just about as many registered sex offenders as you will have victims. The ones who are filed as victims don't cover all who are victims because there are huge dark numbers there. Victims do not all come forward. So it isn't correct to say that all victims get counted and offenders do not.
"I never once shamed my ex for her past when I had RJ, I even internalized it all so she wouldn't have to feel bad that I was hurt."
You're taking this personally, Cerberus. No one is talking about how you were or assuming how you acted. And you really can not deny that most men who come on here complaining about RJ, and the women who talk about their man having RJ, do bring up the shaming. The excessive shaming. So good for you that YOU didn't shame your girl, but the others in question are. And that is what janniepeg is referring to.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 April 2012): Oh come on So_Very_Confused with all due respect when were schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and all the other mental conditions added the DSM? They weren't common before they were added? and we both know wikipedia is not an academic source, I can add it now if you like hehe.
As a psych major you know that field is very much a work in progress, we identify previously unknown disorders all the time. I can only go by what I've seen and known, and I've known plenty of guys with RJ. It's surprizing what you find when you actually look for a certain thing, I never really thought much of it until I realized it was there. I mean I never considered that a lot of women hate porn as much a lot here do. I thought it was only deeply religious people who despised it. I've known plenty who didn't like it, but never dated a girl who minded me using it, never had a discussion about porn with a woman, that ever revealed to me that the girl I was speaking to detested it so much.
"Can you explain to me why 99% of the RJ sufferers are MEN?"
I've met plenty of female RJ's too, but they weren't jealous of sex, they were jealous of past love and that girl being prettier, skinnier etc. than her. I've had girlfriends that really didn't like me discussing how much I loved a girl before them, would get quite upset that she was model beautiful and felt very insecure that they were chubby. Is that not RJ too? Or is RJ only strictly a sexual thing? Perhaps that kind of past jealousy has a different name.
"What about the men who think it’s perfectly FINE to feel this way???"
I think it's fine to feel that way, if you can't accept that you feel that way then how can you fight it and move on? As I said in my previous post the shame can be a killer, the only way to remove the shame is to accept the emotion as being okay to feel but not okay to let get the better of you and putting the blame on the woman to relieve that shame is utterly unacceptable too.
Look you have give some of the guys here a bit of slack in the sense that you're dealing with an extremely messed up individual at that moment, that kind of pain, fury and burning jealousy is exceptionally tough to deal with and irrational thought and action are the name of the game. That woman hasn't changed, but this one piece of information, literally a few sentences, in one conversation has blown your world to pieces and your mind suddenly turns. For me that initial shock and pain was equal to the shock and pain of the day I found out one of my closest friends committed suicide, in that one moment everything you knew about that person was gone. In that one moment the years of being with that woman and the person you had built in your mind of her being is suddenly gone and it's a grief just as profound in the initial stages, at least it was for me anyway. From being fine one minute, in love, life is good, to your mind telling you she's nothing like you thought she was and, yes as shameful as it is to admit, your mind suddenly views her as dirt for a while, it's poisoned and you can't do anything about that but fight it because you know it's wrong. Every time you close your eyes you can see those guys doing that her and she's sleeping right nest to you.
It's like being forced to watch Titanic and listen to that Celine Dion song over and over again, every time you have a moment alone, every time you try to sleep but you can't because Jack is "king of the world!!!"
I just think people could try being a bit more understanding of it and that's why I think it's good people come out of the woodwork and are starting to talk about it. It's shameful, it's embarrassing and it can be very destructive, but it's a very real and can be a very profoundly painful thing.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (11 April 2012):
Cerberus,
With all due respect (and trust me sir I have a GREAT deal of respect for you and your wise words) I had NEVER heard of or dealt with RJ until DC. I have a degree in Psych and it was never a topic of discussion in my studies… Perhaps it’s a newer (NOT NEW but NEWER) phenomenon that comes with the sexual freedom that woman now enjoy as much as men???
I do personally know a sex offender. He was over 18… she was 14 and lied and said she was 18.. he believed her.. her parents pressed charges. He was ruined for life… I think perhaps that RJ is a lot less common than you would like to believe.
I do not dispute that men feel RJ. I will NOT put them down as part of healing is to acknowledge the feelings of the hurting individual… YOU accepted that the RJ was YOUR PROBLEM…. You were willing to work on it… what about the men that BLAME the woman. What about the men who think it’s perfectly FINE to feel this way???
Interestingly enough, THREE full pages into a google search and I cannot find a website that I would consider a definitive acceptable site for a quote for say a Paper proving this feeling… yes there are plenty of sites and comments on it… but they are all by laymen who suffer from this supposed “disorder”
Even the WIKI page which takes me to JEALOUSY does not have the word RETROACTIVE on it.
Can you possibly give me a MEDICAL or LEGITIMATE Psychological citation that indicates that the DSM view RETROACTIVE JEALOUSY as a true problem?
Can you explain to me why 99% of the RJ sufferers are MEN?
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 April 2012): "Never read it in...internet articles"
"The internet...is not real."
Hmm.
Janniepeg if you're going to talk about why you haven't seen it discussed within the confines of your friendships and the few select articles you read doesn't mean it isn't common. It's exceptionally common. Do you really think we guys are going to openly discuss this kind of thing with women and look weak? Be mocked and derided as being idiots, because the "past is the past"? Can you not see that the majority of us that have felt this way have had to keep it quiet not only because we know it shouldn't be the case but that our partner doesn't deserve to punished for it so in order to ensure it doesn't become an issue we keep it quiet?
Are you seriously trying to tell us that you've never, ever in you life known a guy that didn't like his girlfriend's ex or ex's? That couldn't possibly have been a bit of RJ no? You can't grasp the concept that RJ can mild too?
How can you not get how degrading and stupid it feels to have RJ? It's embarrassing, you know it shouldn't be a problem but you can't just turn off your feelings, you feel emasculated. But I suppose it's just a tiny amount of guys that feel that way because you haven't heard of it before.
I suppose you've never personally known a sex offender in your life either even though more than 1 in 4 guys has committed a sexual offence. More than 1/4 of all the guys you've ever met has committed a sexual offence and you will never know which ones because most go unreported and even more go unpunished. I suppose that type of guy doesn't exist either then, because I read my girlfriends women's magazines, I read articles online and her own her sexual predatory research for college. It's all female based, the majority of statistics are based on counting the victims, because you're not exactly going to have a lot of guys stepping forward to admit that to anyone.
Put down guys with RJ all you like, tell women to leave them too, then who are the cowards? If a guy is willing to fight for you, willing to protect you from his crushing resentment of your lies until he can work through it, does he not deserve the same respect? I never once shamed my ex for her past when I had RJ, I even internalized it all so she wouldn't have to feel bad that I was hurt. But I guess she should have just walked away and not stuck by me through my hard times because I'm apparently in the minority of men that find it exceptionally hard to accept that the woman I adored completely has been used, abused and taken by over 50+ men most of whom she didn't even want to sleep with but let them do it anyway.
Try not to generalise so much, the anonymity the internet provides is not only used by people to be assholes and trolls, it is now used by people who feel they can't openly express their emotions to family and friends. I'm not surprized people come online and discuss this, society tells us it's stupid to feel this way, admitting to be crushed by your girlfriends past is something people will laugh off because it's not logical and well most guys aren't good at expressing any kind of emotion that might seem to be a weakness. I consider myself quite progressive but even I will internalize things because I have no choice some emotions come with a lot of shame and RJ is one of those. Jealousy of any kind is a very poisonous emotion.
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (11 April 2012):
I have never come across the term retroactive jealousy if it weren't for dear cupid. Never read it in women's magazine's, internet articles, not even Psychology Today. The internet brought along a colony for these people. Finally they have a voice, a name to call it, they get together sharing similar stories and find reasons to hate women with a past. In reality they are spread around the world and that number is actually very small, so insignificant that society shouldn't have to bend its ways to accomodate the very few people having RJ.
Same as people who have drunken sex several times a week with strangers. We only see them in dear cupid. I don't see an alarming number of people being extremely loose in real life. The internet and reality tv is not real. Don't forget there are many family oriented parts in the city, many plain looking people who have few hobbies rather than making their children happy, raising them to be healthy adults. They might have a past, they might be virgins when they got married, no one is making a big deal except for the very small number of people who vent here, making it look like there are much more RJ guys than in actual.
I should say that some people don't leave their RJ partners because they are insecure and they are made to feel wrong and shameful about their past. People who stay with RJ partners shaming them are the real wimps. Because people don't hear RJ being talked about they assumed it's their problem for having fun in younger years. People who are self-assured, mature would never get involved with an RJ person.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 April 2012): "No sex before marriage" barely worked even back in the days when people's puberty and marriage were only 2-3 years apart. Now puberty is happening younger and marriage is happening older, they can be 10-15 years apart. Most young healthy adults in their sexual prime years are going to have sex, period. Expecting anything else is unrealistic for the vast majority of people.
Sexual freedom is fine IMO. But this is not sexual freedom today. Not when people are only allowed to be involved in casual sex and they are shunned for trying to avoid it. It's very hard for teens and 20s who don't want to be in the hookup culture.
Its even harder for adults of all ages who don't want to be partnered with someone who does not share their sexual habits and values. A person who used to do something and then quit doing it is not the same as someone who would never do it in the first place. If we were talking about anything other than sexual histories then nobody would be arguing with this.
The past DOES matter. This does not bother anyone who isn't ashamed of their actions. Mature secure people who live by their real values (even if that means they decide to have lots of casual sex) don't mind other people knowing the truth about them. They accept whatever good or bad effects that might have. Lying about yourself is weak and manipulative, whatever that lie might be.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 April 2012): In my book a wimp is someone who tries to bury the truth. A person who is aware of what he wants and is actively searching for it is certainly not a wimp. People who only date virgins, for example, risk being single for ever.
Those who are afraid of judgment are definitely 100% pure-blooded WIMPS because as long as people make decisions there will be acceptances and rejections. I'd even say that the "don't judge me" serenade is a HUGE red flag. Just take a look at all the posts that start with the phrase "don't judge me". Something really awful usually follows.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (11 April 2012):
"Unfortunately we now live in a society with loose morals, it's called having sexual freedom. "
There's nothing new about this at all, men have had sexual freedom for centuries. The only "new" thing about it is that women now enjoy the same freedom. But let's not be gullible and believe that today's society is more "loose" than earlier. On the contrary, more and more whore-houses are being shut down and prostitution is being labeled as illegal activity in more and more places. Interpol is also working on stopping human trafficking, to prevent more women from being used as sex-slaves.
Society is on the contrary becoming LESS "loose". The only major difference here is that women now have a right to enjoy the SAME sexual freedom as men always have had, and sexuality is becoming more of an open subject, whereas before it was kept under covers.
Just because you now hear more about sexuality doesn't mean there IS more of it. It was always a "loose" society, it's only now that you hear and see it more out in the open.
No sex before marriage? Yeah right, there are just as few men out there who willingly practiced that in the centuries before us as there are women now who practice it. Only difference is you couldn't catch a man for not being a virgin, whereas you had the blood as "proof" of a woman losing her virginity.
Let's not be naive and think society has actually changed.. it hasn't. Women who sleep with several men are still being called whores, just like in the days of Christ himself. Men who sleep around.. well, nothing at all happens to them.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 April 2012): Doc H here-
Janniepeg has raised a good point about deceiving partners into relationships on false pretenses;
It also puts the deceived partner in a position to be putting different kind of energies, efforts, sacrifices or self-expectations than they would have otherwise bothered to uphold, because they thought their partner 'wasn't like that'. And usually, many people tolerate such things on that assumption- or in particular, that they have 'shared principles' as a way to cope.
-And then it turns out was false, and the liar was just manipulating them for better treatment.
A lot of people might be willing to tie their baby nephew's shoelaces; but not willing to tie the laces of an adult man whom they suspect is simply too lazy to tie them himself. Nobody likes to put hard effort into pleasing some jackass who is only jerking you around (unless pleasing others is the only way you ever get validation and thus don't mind).
No different in relationships- some people set circumstances on how 'generous' they are willing to be at their own expense- and being tricked into putting more effort never sits well.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 April 2012): Doc H here:
Regarding the 'get over it' people being wimps- certainly there are exceptions;
1-married and either have kids, are too old to start again, or lose too much in divorces in their state (as stated already).
2-OR, IF the partner spoils the RJ sufferer in the relationship, and provides largely all the experience and stimuli they had EVER wanted in life altogether anyway.
Failing these two factors (especially 2)- the sufferer IS just a wimp for staying. And funnily, these people constantly berate other RJs for taking the path they COULDN'T take, as 'childish' to try to elevate themselves above them (rather than consider the reverse).
And yes- I'm pointing this out because these people keep talking OTHER people into making UNhealthy life decisions- which is unacceptable. When usually the people who do the opposite actually DO overcome their RJ entirely without needing to 'suppress' anything (the 'lose virginity to a prostitute so I can date non-virgins actually DOES work).
But all in all, for every RJ sufferer who actually tackles HIS problem constructively, there are about 50 who tell themselves they are 'stupid' for having it, and need to be bullied (by themselves or by others)- or need to be constantly reassured by someone, into accepting what they've got. They're wimps.
And no- I'm actually not a manwhore if you were curious.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (11 April 2012):
"Unfortunately we now live in a society with loose morals, it's called having sexual freedom."
I think you mis-spoke.
"Unfortunately we now live in a society with loose morals for everyone NOT JUST MEN, it's called having sexual freedom.
There I fixed it for you.
Truth is that until Birth Control Pills came out... men still were sexual only with women that they didn't respect and didn't care about getting pregnant.
I mean you couldn't walk into the grocery store and buy condoms they were under the counter.... or not available.
MEN have ALWAYS had sexual freedom... THEY can't GET PREGNANT... so this lovely thought that a woman has to be PURE while men can be sexually free has continued.
IF a man believes he should marry the first woman he sleeps with then by all means let him have all the RJ and judgement he wants.... as LONG as IT GOES EXACTLY THE SAME BOTH WAYS I have no problem with it.
It's these men who say "oh no I"m not a virgin... but my wife better be" are the ones I have an issue with.
Again,
EVERYONE needs to be totally honest from day one.
Men you need to tell a woman... if you have so much as kissed another man (or whatever your limit is) please let me know so that we don't get involved.
And Women.... IF a man asks you about your past.... you can ask him WHY he needs to know before you tell him (and here is where the men with RJ must be totally honest) but THEN if you are going to tell him... YOU MUST TELL the TRUTH...
The other option is to say "I'm sorry my sexual past is not really your concern as it was before I knew you. IF you feel that you MUST have this information I am sorry we can't further this relationship, thanks for the great times."
and you end it. DO NOT LIE. Personally to the young virginal girls... If a man says "you must be a virgin (or whatever his limit) SAY THE SAME THING... and RUN FOR THE HILLS... because if he's not judging you for the sexual acts you've preformed in the past, he will probably find something later on down the road to be controlling about...
for example:
those women on Maury or Dr. Phil who's husband's do NOT let them wear makeup or go to the store alone or do not allow them to have friends or be in contact with their families...
I understand having morals.
I understanding wanting a partner that is on the same emotional moral ethical and religious level as you... and if 2 20 somethings met in high school, saved themselves together, prayed at church weekly etc etc etc... and got married may the live happily ever after to 120.
Those are NOT the men that concern me.
The men that concern me are the ones with the double standard.
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (10 April 2012):
You know that guy who married 13 years to a wife who hid the fact that she slept with 5 black guys? He is going to divorce her. He learned one thing which is no one could fathom what he is feeling but himself. I don't think the sexual past is shocking. I think it's the out of control feeling because he idealized that relationship but realized how fragile we could be because we can never know what the truth is. When a partner says I love you we can't really believe it. A role of a husband is to protect and nurture but for 13 years he believed himself as a superstar and after the truth was revealed he got deflated into a small role, a puny man who was trapped into marriage where a woman wants a man to make her life more convenient, and not that she adored him so much that no other man could take his place. The revelation that his marriage felt like an illusion blew him away and was enough for him to just want to disappear. In his case I honestly don't think he was jealous of anything. It's the idealization and the hype of marriage that gave people the unrealistic view of each other. It's about people feeling sick of being the "everyone" person to the other, sick of the pretense of being perfect and pure in a marriage. He is waking up to the fact that the world is a stage and everyone is lying to get what they want, and that there is no real love.
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reader, I see!  +, writes (10 April 2012):
If you can't handle your partner's sexual past, find someone new. Move on, meet someone who shares your own values. Unless your sole intention in life is to be miserable and to make those around you miserable too.
Unfortunately we now live in a society with loose morals, it's called having sexual freedom. Only there are consequences with such negative behaviour: far more stds, abundance of unwanted kids from dysfunctional homes, and a whole host of virtuous individuals unable to find similar partners in this libertine society. It's about time we curbed our selfish behaviour and for the sake of our future kids, their mental and physical health resorted to good old fashioned courting/dating and NO SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (10 April 2012):
"wimps who are too scared or unlikely"
No. Working through and facing your issues, that takes courage. It's the men who run away and give up because they can't accept that their girlfriend has her own life who are cowards.
Everyone feels jealous. It's part of being in a relationship, it happens. But sometimes it can get out of control. I have volunteered a lot with people with severe phobias of strange things. RJ sufferers and phobics have a lot in common. There are many who desperately want to fix the problem. They recognize they have a problem and they try to fix it. They know this problem is impacting their lives and they work through it and their lives are better for it. Then there the people who let their anxiety problem define them. They are convinced they are not the ones with the problem, but everyone else. They become completely consumed by their anxiety (in other cases needles or spiders, in this case jealousy) and let it rule their lives. They give up things they enjoy to feed their anxiety (such as going outside and in this case dating) and miss out on some great things. Your anxiety over this is so severe you are not even able to see these women as people with personalities, they are simply vaginas.
Strong people face their anxiety. It's hard but you can't let your anxiety rule your life.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2012): im not a virgin I've had a few partners but i have always used a condom/been sensible etc 1 of my ex girlfriends had slept with about 4 people and had always used protection etc i had no problem with her past at all,another ex girlfriend had anal sex,unprotected sex and swapped bodily fluids with many partners (all flings FWB and one night stands) i had major issues with all of that stuff so all I'm saying is it depends on many factors etc etc circumstances etc etc if u can't hack ur partners past either work thru it or walk away
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2012): I used to sympathize with RJ sufferers until I figured out how to get over it, now while I sympathize with the pain, I will never sympathize with a guy who is in a great relationship but would rather walk away instead of fight to keep that.
Doc H you left out the 3rd type.
3. Guys with the strength and conviction to fight past the thing they can't change to protect a great relationship with a great woman. If that's cowardly or insecure then I'm a pitiful little bitch and very proud of it because RJ no longer effects me.
Sure they don't have to, sure they can let the bitterness overwhelm them and completely ignore all the good they have in their relationship. If your partners past is too much for you to bare then move on and find someone who's "pure", let her find someone who accepts her past. Then you can go out and interrogate every potential mate under a bright, hot light in a dark room and make her tell you every single detail of every penis she's ever gorged herself on.
There's nothing insecure about not walking away. I suffered immensely with RJ with a past girlfriend who slowly broke it to me over the course of our relationship that she has 50+ partners and lots of those guys were scum she didn't even want to sleep with. I've had months of agonizing over every tiny detail of everything they did to her, sleepless nights and a long hard struggle to rid myself of the feeling that she was somehow a lesser woman than I thought she was. How the hell is fighting through that pain spineless? How is fighting through that because the woman you're with is a very loving, caring and great partner and you don't want to be some weakminded little shit that throws his toys out of the pram and gives up whenever something threatens his relationship? You think I was too insecure? I've never once in my life thought I couldn't get women, I've never once in my life put any woman on such a high pedestal as to think she's the only love I could ever have.
You sound so bitter and broken Doc H. I'm happy as hell to no longer suffer RJ. I've gone from being a guy who got deeply hurt by the very idea that the women I'm with had other guys before me to a guy who values women for who they are now and don't consider them any less of a potential partner based on the number of partners they've had. You can keep your standpoint and I'll just carry on in ignorant bliss. I'd rather be a fool that's happy than a hero that can't handle his own emotions.
If a woman was worth fighting for before you knew about her past then she still is, she hasn't changed, only your perception of her has. My policy is to simply not ask. Their past is none of my business and I want to get the know the woman she is now not the woman she was. Because simply put I'm no angel myself and I won't be judged by anyone for any mistake I made in the past, people like that can simply go find someone else to judge.
You see we all have dirt, we're all unclean in our own ways and you can let them define who you are if you like or you can move on and be a better person.
I'm old enough and wise enough after my 20 years of dating, 8 long term girlfriends and a sex partner count nearly in the triple digits to know what I want in a woman and how to get it. I would never tell a girl all the details of my past because it's not their business to know that, if they can't handle not knowing then she can go find someone else for herself.
You see both men and women will lie about their past, women will give a smaller number and men will give a bigger number. It may not be right but it's a widely accepted practice and I think one that has merits. The only things we should know about a person's past are things that will effect the present. If you can't handle not knowing then walk away. if you can't accept your partner lying to you about things that she feels don't matter then walk away, but don't blame the other person for your feelings, because she didn't purposefully go out there and fuck a football team just so she could hurt you in the future, she did it because she didn't know any better, or she wanted to have some fun, it's none of your business that she did that either.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2012): If you're honest from the get-go about what you're looking for you are vulnerable to liars. Many people lie about their past and therefore honest people need to be very careful in order to avoid getting married to someone they don't want.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (10 April 2012):
Male anon I don't think your problem is that women are rude to you and you are nice to them. I think the problem is that you don't understand the social rules and know how to act appropriately. Stating firmly what sort of woman you are looking for is not asking a personal question. So I believe you are going about this in a very offensive and rude manner, hence the rude and offended responses.
If I was to aim for a virgin man I'd not ASK every man I met if they were a virgin, but simply make it clear what I am interested in from day one. And then let THEM come to me. If they are not what I am looking for they will not pursue me further. If they are what I am looking for they will say so themselves without me asking.
Your attitude reveals that you think women, universally, are against you. Your attitude also reveals that you don't know these women, as you refer to them in unison as if they were all one and the same.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2012): Doc H here
ChiGirl and the OP have nailed it- especially the OP- perfectly put.(everyone else missed the point entirely- again)
Simply put, aside from parents/married individuals who are too heavily invested to walk away now- people who do NOT leave a person with an unacceptable past in their eyes- ARE simply insecure.
They are either:
1- wimps who are too scared or unlikely to get luck in the dating world again- so stick with 'the best they will get'
2- are so clingy and attached to whoever is giving them the time of day that they simply cannot bear to be without validation from that romantic partner (and think it's 'love').
Often their method of 'getting over it' is to do what they are used to- become submissive and accept a crappy situation, because that's the only thing they can do. But they tell themselves they were being 'mature and stoic' instead- and worse, try to put down other RJ sufferers hoping to elevate themselves as being 'better than them'.
I actually sympathize with RJ sufferers a lot- been there myself. But they have to have a backbone.
I do NOT sympathize with spineless lovesick dweebs who refuse to stand up for themselves, apologize to the aunts, put themselves down etc. They deserve no help. Better they take themselves and their partner out of the dating pool.
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (10 April 2012):
I do get jealous if I read poems that my partner wrote to his ex. You never see women complaining about men's emotional experience because most men can relate emotionally, but to have an 8 inch and lasting hours long is an unattainable ideal for most men. If you are inexperienced I think it would be a dumb question to ask the woman if you are her best. Maybe your ancient brain tells you that you need an 8 inch and last long to keep a woman's loyalty but in reality it is the opposite. All it does is that it triggers the lower animal brain, the gene survival part in people of childbearing age.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2012): I read awhile back that they did a study on men and women to see what triggered jealousy in them. Basically, women tended to get jealous when they thought about their man having intense feelings for another woman, whereas men tended to have strong feelings of jealousy when they thought about their woman having sex with other men.
My sense is that the two are not "equal" in terms of past relationships because I almost never see posts on dearcupid by women saying that they are tortured by thoughts of their man's past emotional experiences.
For me, it's not completely black and white. I'm never bothered by thoughts of my wife having sex with her ex husband for example. She was in a long term committed relationship, of course she was going to have sex. But, when of her past relationships was almost completely sexual, and she'd drive halfway across the state just to screw this guy, then turned around and drove home. He was apparently some sort of Lothario who screwed hundreds of women, and she was not in any sort of committed relationships with him. I've avoided asking too many questions about that relationship, but a few things have slipped out here and there about him that have made it clear she was extremely attracted to him sexually. (I have absolutely no doubt that she'd never drive halfway across the state just to have sex with me)
She's also had relationships that were mostly emotional (strong feelings), but apparently not heavy on the sex.
I know she'd never have a serious relationship with the Lothario guy because he was a loser in other respects and they weren't compatible, but that relationship pushes my "jealousy" button much more than her other relationships. I might be wrong, but I think I'd have very little RJ with respect to her past but for that one relationship.
I guess all I'm saying is that RJ might not be quite as simple as some people tend to think.
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (9 April 2012):
I don't have problems with men who want women who treat sex as a special thing, but I do have problems with men who married 20 years to a loyal, decent, and content woman only to find out the marriage is based on a lie, and decide to throw away that 20 years because why, that woman is only "acting" 20 years to get the comfort in a marriage, therefore using a man when her nature is to be fucking one different guy a day?
I have had many partners. I look as maiden like and plain as can be and I am intensely loyal once in a serious relationship. I have no hobbies besides taking care of my child. No one knows how I live my life. I have absolutely no reason to rub my past in my partner's face. I won't even do this to spite him or provoke a break up. It's a non issue in my life.
I think RJ guys are overestimating the number of women who enjoy casual sex and underestimating their abilities to enjoy sex as a recreation. I read somewhere that there was a guy who shouts the name "Jesus!" when he has an orgasm. The woman felt disgusted by it. Even though you are not religious you do sound like you are holier than thou when you demand sex to be non casual at all times. A lot of married couples have a variety of sex. They switch from romantic, gentle sex and rough animalistic sex from time to time. Those RJ guys who demand sex to be missionary and sacred might not even know how to emotionally connect through sex but are complaining so much about what society does.
Women get angry when you ask if they had a past because you sound arrogant when you discount women who had a past as undatable. So it doesn't matter what their answers are. They don't want a man who thinks like that.
My advice to women who are dating RJ guys. Set up a website myguyhasrj.com. There will be sections determining the level of your guy's RJ, whether you want to support him and help him get over it, or whether to give up on him. The ground breaking discovery is that it is easier to give up on him because guys who are so stubborn, guys who think only virgins are datable are so rare, and they shouldn't affect how you feel towards the majority of men. It will be 30 dollars well spent on this ground breaking discovery.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (9 April 2012):
I would like to add, I'm certainly not immune to RJ. I bet most people have at least felt pangs of it. My current boyfriend and I were talking and he mentioned he had a MUCH bigger crush on his friend in high school than he did on me and it made me act pretty crazy. Such as waiting until he'd left his facebook open to look through her profile, badgering him with questions about her, obsessing about the fact that she has blue eyes and I have light brown, she is tall and I'm not, etc... I got over it and realized that it was because he knew her for almost 4 years, whereas we only knew each other for 2 weeks before we dated. He loves me, he is with me, and the only way his feelings for her impacted our relationship was in the way I let it.
I want to repeat that. His past feelings did not impact him, they did not cause him problems, they only caused me problems. They were MY problems, not his.
Boy am I glad I got over it, because now I'm in a wonderful relationship with a wonderful person and we plan to spend our lives together. Leaving aside cheating or crimes, the past is the past. I am one of the most (the most maybe) vehemently anti-porn people on this site, but I would never refuse to date someone simply because they had used it in the past.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (9 April 2012):
Listening to this it almost seems to be that RJ men find other men's penises disgusting. It's like some kind of reverse midas touch thing, the second a woman comes into contact with one, she becomes a filthy diseased slut.Your line of thinking is something along the lines of a car. Women and their vaginas do not generate miles and lose value. Sex has pretty much nothing to do with anything and has nothing to do with a woman's personality or morals, other than that she is not very religious. I have dated men with many more sex partners than me, and I've dated virgins. There were no consistencies in the personalities or morals of those men, though it seemed mostly among men more confidence=more sex, whereas the women who had more sex partners during college seemed to have less confidence. I also have female friends all along the spectrum, and the ones who have experience are no different than the ones who are virgins.Miamine said it perfectly, we are more than our holes. Our "worth" is not determined by our vaginas.No one is forcing you to be with a non-virgin woman. If that is something you care about, then by all means spend your life searching for this virgin woman and keep telling yourself that her being a virgin is somehow a positive reflection on her personality.The problem is, it's hard enough finding someone you are compatible with even if you have no restraints on what you're looking for. To be realistic, at your age, the number of virgin women is less than 5%. Not probably, but is. At 30, many fewer and most of those women are probably either highly religious to the point of NEVER having sex, or have severe disabilities that either physically prevent them being able to have sex, or legally.I've noticed you've evaded the question about your own sexual past.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (9 April 2012):
why not just ask women if they are virgins before you date them
tell them that if they LIE to you that the BREAKUP will be painful and ugly as your ego can't cope with the fact that they might have had a life prior to you, so it's better to be truthful with you from the get go and avoid the fights and jealousy of their past...
I don't see a problem here with you dating only women you deem appropriate.
there you go
you're honest about how you feel
you don't date women you don't admire or approve of
and "slutty" girls don't get insulted by your morals or ethics.
Can I ask a question now?
what will you do when you find said virgin, marry her and then find out she's actually a virgin because she's frigid and doesn't want sex except for procreation of children?
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 April 2012): I don't suppose it might be possible that a man's feelings could be somewhere in the middle?
You know, like where MOST men fall, they want a woman in the ballpark of their own sexual experience level?
I know that doesn't fit into the male stereotype on these threads. "Evil men who all have RJ for sadistic reasons and fantasize about breaking hymens to punish women." But IMO most men are in the middle on this. They aren't demanding a virgin when they're at the age of 38 or anything. They just don't want a woman who treats sex a lot more casually than they always have.
I know it's easier and more fun to put RJ men into ugly categories but real men aren't stereotypes any more than real women.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (9 April 2012):
 Ah... and why can I talk to this like this... I'm the type of woman your looking for.. I have had very, very few partners, I'm actually a one woman man..... no man would ever call me a slut.. when I suggested it, they was horrified and upset on my behalf...
A judgemental man couldn't come close to me, even though he would have no jealousy over my history. Virgin or whore.. I AM MORE THAN MY VIRGINITY AND MORE THAN MY BLOODY HOLE.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (9 April 2012):
"But if your female friend did things that most guys think are repulsive then its her own fault the mess she is in."
The problem is.. these women can find a million men to fuck them.. and yes, they got problem with relationships, they can only find 50 men to settle down with them, and a million guys to fuck.
While you RJ guys, you sit there, and you ponder, and you ponder some more, and then you worry about values, you look down on everybody else and keep your virginity sacred, whilst worrying about not having a girlfriend.. or you might be lucky to shag a couple of women or two... but you have problems with long term relationships.... your best friend is your dick in hand....
The woman who you think is beneath you, she will have threesomes, orgies, she'll get married, she'll have guys who worship her and can't have her, she'll have friends, lovers, she'll fall in love, have problems, but in the end she'll be all right... Whilst you will have your morals, your purity and your dick in hand...
These "poor sluts" in the end will know and receive love without any problems... whilst you be sitting there, with your morality and your dick in hand, deciding what kind of woman is decent enough to touch you at nights.
Again.. choice is all.. she's chosen to be a "slut" and nobody here is forcing you to be with her. We is all encouraging to spend your life looking for the virgin woman who wants a virgin man, and decides that you is sexy enough and wants to be with you....
My money unfortunately is on the slut.. because even virgins don't want a judgemental man. You think you and your purity is wonderful and you think every woman (especially the pure) want you... Nope, sorry, judgemental people are controlling and make other people run away.
But don't give up your search... because I don't like men like this, when I was a virgin and when I was not.. doesn't mean somewhere in the world, some virgin pure woman might think this is sexy..
PS: Truth be told, losing your virginity is hard enough, without a pure judgemental man giving you lots of grief.. that's why even virgin women don't like virgin males... But who know, your luck and lifestory may be different.
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (8 April 2012):
Being obese and having 50 partners in the past is not a good comparison. "Sluts" can look just like you and me. Without makeup and skimpy clothes there is no way you could tell what kind of past a woman has. Not all sluts develop STDS, HPV, and have lots of kids. Not all sluts cheat. You have to put people who cheat and people who had lots of partners in different category. I would say a person who has not had enough experimentation is more likely to cheat because he/she can't deal with not knowing what's out there and succumbs to temptation. A person with lots of experience would know what's good for them, and what's a waste of time.
There are men who ask about number of partners. It is more like a curiosity thing rather than a paranoid thing. Like has that person been around the block, picky, or conservative? Most people fall in the range of 1 partner to 15 partners, which is pretty much acceptable. Anything more than that I think a good response would be, "quite a few." That way you are not really lying and if your partner insists on knowing like many many times then you would know it's going to be a problem in the relationship. In my experience men just take my answer, had no problems and never talked about the past again. I am lucky I never had to deal with RJ. Why a high number? Some people are more outgoing than the others. They get hit on a lot, and they haven't found the right one. Sex can be enjoyable and there is no need to automatically think about terms like exploitation and cheap.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 April 2012): I see what you are saying Cerberus. But if your female friend did things that most guys think are repulsive then its her own fault the mess she is in. I don't see how that makes it okay to lie to guys about it.
Its like if I over eat until I weigh 400 pounds, give myself permanent health problems because of it, and then say "Why do women judge me for my size and health problems?" It's too bad that I am in such a fix now. But I did it to myself for years, one bite at a time. And I enjoyed a lot of it along the way. Its still not right for me to lie about my weight and health to a woman that I am talking to online. I made the mistakes and the problems are mine to deal with. The people I date arent the ones with the problem just because they are turned off by me now.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 April 2012): "Why can't I date whoever I want?"
Of course you.
"why does this mean I am attacking and judging everyone who is different from me?"
You're not but most RJ guys that I've seen weren't virgins either, they had their own past and very often they impose values on the woman they're with that they don't even have themselves. But if like the OP you use terms such as "slutty" or "better" and turn it into a moral argument then yes that's judgemental and attacking. One of my closest female friends has one of the seediest sex lives of anyone I've ever met, 50+ guys before she stopped counting and that's only counting full sex, her oral and manual count goes well into triple digits. She is one of the most morally strict and principled people I know. A very loyal, loving, caring and trustworthy friend who has never once in the 9+ years I've known her deliberately tried to hurt anyone in any way. Her sex life is not a true gauge of the person she is and for people to call her slut or any of that other shit or condemn her as a bad person for that is completely unfair because she's not. She has to hide her past from guys because there are too many that will judge her before even getting to know her and she hopes when they do find out they'll be able to see past that and still love her.
You see she has learned over the years that a lot of guys will say that they're okay with it even when she does tell them early only for them to either have lied just to bed her or for her to be a nice little experiment for the guys who weren't okay with it but decided to try it anyway.
For girls like her it's no-win. You tell them, they walk away, lie or try you out. You don't tell them until later they feel betrayed or lied to. In all ways she's fucked then. Because people view her as damaged goods and the most fucked up thing about that is that the majority of her large number of sexual partners were the liar or experimentation type who dropped her because of her past. So it's catch 22.
"Why can't I look for a partner who shares my personal beliefs just because they aren't as popular as some others?"
You can, but you then limit yourself hugely by discounting some very good women based on the things they've done and not who they are. Again that is your choice.
You just have to make sure you date that kind of woman then, you have ensure you know her sexual history is acceptable before you commit and hope she's one of the ones that will be honest and open about her past because in my experience most women aren't and even more of them think it's unacceptable for a guy to even ask and perfectly acceptable to keep their past private.
Unfortunately that's just the way the world works.
Personally after getting over severe RJ in one of my past loves I much prefer the idea of getting over it and now being able to accept a woman's past as relatively meaningless as long as it's not something which will effect the present, such as a history of consistent cheating or other consistently bad decisions like staying with an abuser. The only time the past matters to me is in terms of risk factors. I have no need to date a cheater nor a person who was abused in the long term by choice (meaning they stayed in an adult abusive relationship over the long term).
I just think the "moral" standpoint is a ridiculously insulting and outdated concept that demeans people based on their past, whether mistakes or not, and that is being judgemental and myopic.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 April 2012): That sounds like it would work Cindy. But when you are a guy like me, see how badly you get treated by women for just trying to find the right person for yourself. I treat them fair and honestly but they don't treat me with any respect for it. I have tried women them how I feel from the start and they say I had no right ask them about it when I barely know them. If I try waiting until we have been dating a while then that's even worse. There is nothing I can do that will not make them angry and disrespectful to me. The only choice they would not mind is for me to ignore my beliefs and almost guarantee to end up with the wrong person. I am not the one who is acting superior to someone for the sexual differences between us and putting them down for it. They are.
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reader, CindyCares +, writes (8 April 2012):
@anon male reader :of course you can date whomever you want. By all means. You SHOULD date women who share your sexual values,you SHOULD look for a partner who shares your personal beliefs.
What you should NOT do, is what most RJ sufferers do : get anything that comes their way, because they are too wimpy and neurotic to either go after precisely what they want or stand their singletude with dignity. So they take up with someone not to their standards ,just to forever pointlessly busting the poor woman 's chops with their mental masturbations. They STAY in the relationship, gladly taking sex, attentions and affection, ...from a woman whom they basically feel contempt for and feel morally superior to. Talk about spitting in the plate where you are eating in . Personally, I think THIS is immoral.
If you only like blondes, go after blondes. Don't take up with a brunette only to torment her about her inadequate ( according to you ) hair colour.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 April 2012): Why can't I date whoever I want?
If I want to date women with blond hair, that is fine. If I want to date women of a certain age, that is fine. Certain religion. Certain opinion about politics. Etc.
But if I only want to date women who share my sexual values, why does this mean I am attacking and judging everyone who is different from me? Why can't I look for a partner who shares my personal beliefs just because they aren't as popular as some others?
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reader, shawncaff +, writes (7 April 2012):
 Hi,
I wrote an article about RJ this some time ago here on DC. You can check it out. Basically, I talked about how when thinking about RJ, one should consider the factor of how casual the sex was. Perhaps that is an underlying issue--that your lover has treated sex casually in the past. If she had sex within the confines of committed relationships, I think that changes things a lot.
I would like to add something else now. Another issue to consider is your partner's attitude toward her (or his) past exploits. Does he/she regret it? Does she feel that your relationship is different or special? If so, how?
I agree with the posters who say that those who reject RJ as some "psychological obsession" are being unduly dismissive. It IS an issue. But it is possible to deal with without rejecting the lover as a s***, if, as Cerberus says, the relationship is worth fighting for.
A past is significant, but it is not etched in stone to determine a person's character. A person can learn from, interpret, and refashion the past to become a better person and change how he/she sees the future. A person should not be judged solely on his/her past, but rather on how he/she interprets his/her past.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 April 2012): Interesting to read another post about Retro-Jealousy and its good to see a mix of replies. Now, what about if you can't handle anything about your partners past not just her past sexual experiences? Years ago I had a bad case of Retro-Jealousy and was obsessed, very much like Cerberus with his answer below. Anyway, that was years ago and I have fallen in and out of love, etc with other women since then. I have moved on...or so I thought.Now, I met a girl last year and we have started dating, but when she wanted to tell me about her past boyfriends and I told her I would rather not know. She understood and so said nothing. However, I still find myself being jealous and questioning everything, and its got to the point where I can feel myself sliding into that pattern I did all those years ago. I won't even have her on my Facebook as a friend as I am anxious that I might feel worse when male friends make comments about her on there.Weird thing is...I was with a girl for almost 3 years a year or so back, and she told me a lot about her sexual past, boyfriends and how she did one-night stands...and this didn't bother me at all. I managed to look through this fog of insecurity and see the girl I loved. It really didn't phase me at all with her.(Sorry for putting this in the replies here. I just thought it might be relevant.)
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (7 April 2012):
Inexperienced men don't have better morals. They just have harder time getting laid. Somehow they feel that it's better to call women sluts than to admit they can't get any girls. They feel it's easier to get with a single mom than to risk rejection by a virgin girl. Men with retroactive jealousy are secretly commitment phobes. They go out with women with flaws to reinforce the idea that relationships won't last long, therefore shielding themselves the hurt and rejection that might come with an authentic, compatible relationship.
To answer your question they don't leave because as men get older the choices of getting a virgins is much slimmer. Sure there are young immature girls who fall in love with married men but there are also wise ones who would prefer someone without baggage.
The only solution to retroactive jealousy is to get rid of that jealousy by dating more, becoming better lovers and to live fully in the present instead of dwelling in the past. Trying to tackle retroactive jealousy is still living in the past. Just enjoy life okay and do what the other women did and stop saying they have no morals because you didn't get to do what they did. That just sounds like sour grape to me.
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (7 April 2012):
 I think people in general are more afraid of doing what they need to do to be happy and thus perhaps be alone, then leave a relationship.
Some men and women just "love" the whole "martyr-shit"
I do think it is irrational to suddenly develop retrograde jealousy. In the cases where the guys get into a relationship KNOWING what kind girl they are with, yet they stay for whatever reasons until they feel it is just easier to "blame" the girl and her past.
The double stand is still thriving. Men can be "studs" and sleep with as many women as they like and it is to be admired, where as women are categorized with names such as sluts, cunts, whore, bitches......
I think fundamentally, if you aren't happy in a relationship, get out. But don't blame your partner for everthing.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (7 April 2012):
PS. this is a matter of preference, and preference alone. Sure, a sexist man will probably get himself in a fuzz over his woman not being a virgin, but a sexist man will also be in a fuzz about a ton of other things as well. I think it is a far stretch to assume every man with this one preference must be a sexist pig. There are other criteria that need to be met before I'll label someone sexist or a womanizer.
I happen to know a man who is sexist and a man chauvinist. I don't have anything against him at all, we're study pals and can hang out with no problem at all. He'd have a HUGE problem with me should he be dating me, as he's of the conviction that women are dumber than men and should be virgins etc. etc. So no, a relationship would have been torture with him. But that doesn't mean I need to get all personal about his views. As long as he isn't sending flying insults my way I don't give a crap about his personal convictions. I see no reason to be offended, as long as he sees no reason to be offended that I would never date him either. Call it a difference in preference. He wants a submissive housewife, and I want a man with a more liberal and modern view on relationships.
But that doesn't mean I have to get offended by his idea of the perfect woman. He's entitled to his views as I am entitled to mine. You can't take everything everyone thinks as a personal insult.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (7 April 2012):
I agree with the OP. Why force yourself to accept someone who you don't really want to accept, just to be with someone? It's like they say, don't try to change a person into being perfect. Instead find someone who already is perfect to you.
I don't get it either, why men with retrograde jealousy, or other issues, deliberately stay in relationships, or deliberately date women, who they KNOW they will have this issue with. Why? That's like me saying I hate smokers, yet I keep dating men who smoke only to dedicate my life to complain about it. Doesn't make sense.
Sure, I can get over my hatred for cigarettes, but what's the point when there are already tons of people out there who doesn't smoke and I could just date one of them instead?
No, I'm with the OP. People need to have the self insight to know whether someone is right for them or not, and then cut their losses if the relationship doesn't work for them. Instead of dragging it on and on and on.
It is better to be alone than to be with the wrong person and be miserable.
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reader, Foot-In-My-Mouth  +, writes (7 April 2012):
 I agree wholeheartedly with person12345. And no, this issue has nothing to do with porn. I can bet OP has no morak objections to porn because he would easily dehumanise the women in porn to a "collection of body parts" as someone mentioned here on this website. They aren't human enough to him (and other porn watchers) to even enter his warped moral compass.And not surprisingly, he has failed to mention his own sexual history. Evidently that does not matter. I really see misogyny dripping from every word of his post. Even the moderator had to replace the s*** word he used to describe his wife. So by those standards, what is a man who has had more than one sexual partner? A male slut? A gigolo? Oh wait, society has very conveniently forgotten to evolve a male counterpart of that word. Very revealing!
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reader, Miamine +, writes (7 April 2012):
The big problem with just leaving, is men who have retroactive jealousy will continue you to have it with many women. We have men on Dear Cupid who make their wives hell because they kissed a guy when they were a virgin.Retroactive jealousy has very little to do with a woman's past, men can suffer it if the woman was a virgin and just held a guys hand in the past. We have many cases of women who are insulted, degraded by husbands who are jealous of them even having one boyfriend.... Retroactive jealousy is something to do with the man's mind and his need for control over people. The funny thing, many men have slept with tons of women and are angry with a wife who has only had one partner.... now how does that fit into your theories about jealousy, a slutty wife and a husband who has been "wronged"?Marry a virgin who has lived locked up in the broom cupboard all her life, but you may still find you have the jealousy feelings anyway. It is however good to marry a person who has your morals and interests, but it's not the other person at fault, it's the faulty mind that turns itself inside out with it's obsessions.Personally I'm feel sorry for women who have to deal with such men, I don't like jealous people or people who demand the right to know all of my business, and so like you, my solution is never to date them. However it's easier for me to date non-jealous men, than it is for you to find a woman who will never, ever cause any jealousy in you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 April 2012): But they are more related than you'd think person12345 in the context of the OP's moral position. Surely a guy who thinks it is amoral for a woman to have had numerous sex partners in the past can't possibly watch porn because the women in porn then are having paid sex outside of relationships and those women can't possibly be of the same moral standpoint as the OP.
You see if a regular woman who has had some casual sex or numerous sex partners is viewed by the OP as "slutty" and that there are "better" women out there then surely porn stars are a level below that type of woman and therefore it would go completely against his own moral position to enjoy porn wouldn't it? Seeing as he himself is promoting such a high moral standard, then he couldn't possibly stoop so low as to enjoy watching women get boned by lots of different guys in porn.
With that in mind I think the OP and other guys who view themselves morally superior should hook up with those women who feel morally superior for not watching porn. Sounds logical to me.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (7 April 2012):
"Please don't reply with those rational arguments"There we go again, being rational, what an awful way to think about things. Since you actively don't want logic, reason, or rational thinking, that means you want us to all reply screaming and frothing at the mouth about how awful all women are and how much women suck and call women gendered slurs. Is that right?The problem OP is that in your views you are attempting to express ownership over women. Some of the men on here genuinely do seem to recognize that they are simply irrationally jealous and wish to change because they realize that they are being irrational.But men like yourself take it one giant step further. Rather than realize that this is not some kind of lapse in morals and that there is nothing she could do to change it, you believe something else. That she has had the audacity to not remain locked in her bedroom with no access to men in the outside world waiting for you, you actually have the arrogance to suggest that she is somehow actively punishing you by not having the foresight to see that one day she will meet you.You seem to believe that either women possess time machines and are unwilling to travel back in time to change it for you, or that women have future-seeing powers and while they can see that they will one day meet a husband who wants to own their vaginas, choose to have a life anyways. You are demanding that women refuse to date or have lives because someday some man will come along demanding his property be "unused" like a car.Your argument is, in essence, that men deserve ownership of these women. Your post is dripping with the kind of sexism that is used to legally allow men to own women in other countries. That women are so irresponsible and amoral, that they cannot be trusted to find their own mate because they might arrive to him used up like a piece of toilet paper. That women are worth no more than their vagina, which has arbitrarily been valued by the men around her. There is no difference between a virgin woman and a non-virgin woman, except that a few men cannot handle the idea that their property has exercised her free will at some point.You do not get ownership of women. Those days are long past. Women have lives outside of the men they meet. They don't sit around in chastity belts waiting to be sold like animals to their future husbands to act as sex slaves. Get over it. Women are not your property, they are not your sex slaves, they are human beings with abilities to make their own choices. Stop blaming women for your own problems.And one last thing, it is incredibly sad that you believe women are nothing more than vaginas. I feel very sorry for your ex wife that you married her for her vagina rather than for her personality. Do you honestly believe women do not have more to offer than their reproductive organs?I find it odd that you don't mention your own sexual past. Is this a female-specific thing? In fact you outright say that only inexperienced men would think they shouldn't aim for a virgin.This has literally nothing to do with porn. One thing is being actively done in the present and can be changed, one thing has been done in the past and cannot. They are in no way related.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 April 2012): Nobody HAS to forgive ANYTHING. That's an extremely simple and obvious statement that a lot of people tend to ignore. They have these weird scenarios in their head where a perverted and twisted "love" binds together two people with completely different morals and values. They call this "unconditional love".Here's another newsflash: there is no unconditional love. Because if there was we would fall in love with anyone. Everybody judges everybody else according to his own standards. And that's ok.What we're dealing with is the mistaken advice of promiscuous people who don't want to be judged for their actions. So, each time one of these questions comes up we have a bunch of people who identify with the slut (male of female) and try to convince the OP to sacrifice his fundamental values in the name of "unconditional love". (This is usually done in the most detestable manner as the OP is called insecure, shallow etc) Bullshit. It's their own fear of judgment that controls them. They aren't really responding to the OP but (subconsciously) to their significant other, who has probably judged them as well. This Yos guy gives the worst advice I have ever seen. I wonder if he actually cut his balls off.Not surprisingly, these "secure", "sexually liberated", "proud" and "modern" people often lie through their teeth when their past is put on the table. Oh, that's right, they lie to save the OP the pain right? LOLFor me each person deserves to choose his partner based on the TRUTH. And two people who are FUNDAMENTALLY different should NOT be together. Yes, that means judgment and rejection, people. Deal with it. It's a part of life."And what about love? Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate"
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 April 2012): "that it seems to be impossible to ever completely get over it"
It seems but is not impossible. Everything in life can be overcome, people overcome sexual abuse, rape, physical abuse, domestic violence, the loss of loved ones and yes even their spouses past.
Look OP retro-jealousy is something most women won't understand, just as hating porn is something most of us guys will never understand. If everyone just up and left relationships because of these issues then there'd be very few relationships left.
I've had severe retro-jealousy in the past. Haunted by visions of past exploits I was stupid enough to listen to in detail from one of my exes. It was torture and it played like a movie in my head for months but I fought through it and got past it.
If a relationship is worth fighting for, if the woman is one of the good ones, who's been loyal, faithful, loving and an overall great partner then the man owes it to himself and her to fight to protect that. At the end of the day her past can't be changed but how you view that past and how it effects you can be changed and it gets easier over time.
She hasn't broken any of the rules of the relationship and you want to know what's funny? Most of the guys who are retrojealous have similar pasts, they too have had one nights stands or threesomes etc. and most admit that it's not an issue of morals but merely of their idealized view of the woman they're in love with has been tarnished by their past.
Most women have a past. Most women have had relationships in their teens and as adults, I wouldn't advise any man to discount a woman based on her past but to judge her based on who she is now, within good reason. Having had partners before is not amoral.
But you know what? Perhaps you're right, perhaps we should start up a dating site for guys who are retrojealous to meet women who hate porn. That would probably solve everything. That way a man who can't deal with the fact his wife has had a past can be with a woman who can't deal with the idea that her man may be looking at other women now. The perfect combination.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 April 2012): Part of the problem is, how do you meet women who share chaste values? Especially if you are not religious. I pretty much get hit in the head with a purse every time I tell a new woman I am dating that this subject is important to me. I try to be as respectful as possible but it doesn't matter, they get indignant and angry. IMO most women who have casual sex don't want to accept the consequences of their decisions like adults.
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