A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I am talking about women in serious relationships who act like their man has no right to expect a decent sex life from them. Before you jump on me with the claws out, please listen to what I am saying and what I am not. I am not saying anything extreme like “women have no right to ever refuse sex or have a dry spell” etc. I am trying to be fair and grown up here.I am talking about men who are decent to their wives/GFs and they just want to have sex more than once a month (or year.) They don't want to have to beg and bother her for it every single time, year after year. They just want their partner to be a willing participant and try to show a little bit of attraction and enthusiasm a few times a month. Or at least be sympathetic about their man's disappointment if she cannot or does not want sex for a while. I realize there are also plenty of men out there who don't satisfy their wives enough. But the huge difference is the attitude. I have never met a man in my life who didn't think he owed his wife some kind of normal sex life. Even if he was not delivering it for whatever reason, even if he never wanted to talk about it, he still basically understood that her frustration about it was justified. He understood that his job was to deliver his partner a decent sex life if he is able to. But I hear about women all the time who literally act like their man has no right to expect a sex life from them. When did it become okay to commit or marry someone and treat them like this?
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male
reader, Xearo  +, writes (4 September 2012):
I still think that if men showed more interest and treated their wives with the affection they once showed, then the wives would feel the need to dress pretty and look good. I am sure if a woman tried to look pretty on her own, the same men OP speaks of wont notice or might even dislike it. If husbands genuinely make the effort and their wives, outright refuses them of sex, then ofc even I would say the marriage has run its course. At the very least if these are things you hear from your friends, then it is just a one sided story. These problems stem from both directions, where even after being married for so long, it is still so hard to communicate about such things between spouses. The problem here just isn't as black and white as it sounds and when blame keeps getting passed around, it goes no where fast. Quite frankly let people sort out their own problems. If people had the time to complain about it, then they should be doing something about it...both men and women.
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male
reader, SensitiveBloke  +, writes (27 August 2012):
 Many men are not selfish but try everything to make their wives happy and yet the wives still feel they can always say no to sex and that's ok. Other women are treated terribly by their husbands and still want sex!
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 August 2012): Heres one woman's story which may give a real life example. He doesnt listen and has some weird ideas about how sex works for her, poor thing. http://www.dearcupid.org/question/us-plus-sex-equals-not-working-hes-down.html She sounds desperate for some real consideration of her needs... He sounds like a jerk. Why not go offer her some advice?
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 August 2012): Oh right I must have read your post wrong. Both are responsible for making sure they fulfil the needs of their partner whatever those needs are.
I don't see any disparity in terms of gender in favour of women. I've been here a while now on this site and I actually see a lot more posts from women unhappy with their sex lives than I do from men and the main issue most of them seem to have is that he's just stopped putting the effort into seducing them, making them feel desired or having plenty of foreplay and just wants to hop on and get off.
"But one side gets a pass and the other side does not."
Neither side get a pass OP but I do understand where you get that idea from. It seems a lot of guys and even the media have painted women as having a weird warped view of feminism that they use it as an excuse to not put any work into their sex lives, "I have him now I don't have do anything I don't want to ever again".
My original point remains the same and it's simply this, women love sex as much as men do, there is usually more to it than a woman simply deciding she doesn't want it anymore and from all my time here and discussions with others it's usually due to just not feeling it from the guy anymore because he's gotten selfish, lazy and/or crap yet still expects her to perform for him. OP a lot of women just won't lie back and think of England anymore and just let their husband get his rocks off even when they're not in the mood, many don't see that as a right for guys anymore like it used to be because it's not a right it's a privilege.
As I said before generally when a woman decides a guy doesn't have a right to have any sex it's because he's stopped working to earn it in her mind. Her needs are probably not being met sexually or in other ways and she just doesn't want to have him get off with her.
It's not that I think women have more of a right to refuse or complain. I wouldn't stick around with a woman who used sex as bargaining chip but I do understand that there is a certain amount of work I have to put in to earn that. A lot of guys seem to think they can just have it and she should be satisfied with just getting done. Especially the guys who stop giving foreplay, the most essential part of sex for a lot of women as it's their only way to achieve orgasm for their partner.
Women have just as much trouble keeping the sex alive as guys do, the same works for romance. Relationships are a mutual effort and at the end of the day neither partner has a right to sex or anything else, they're privileges earned and given. The only right you have is to walk away if the relationship isn't fulfilling.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (25 August 2012):
 OP you're missing the point. Cerberus has explained it well and you're choosing to ignore it.Sex is not about who is sacrificing more and about how much she can give her partner. Sex is about doing something together that is fun and mutually rewarding. There's some give and take from each side, but overall it is supposed to be an equally fulfilling thing.This issue here is just about who desires what. Dressing up is not the same here because in this instance the man already wants sex and the woman does not. So making him want sex more will not solve that. The only issue here is how to make her want to have sex. Asking her to just do it for his sake is not a solution, she will only resent him and eventually stop doing it again. The problem comes 100% down to what can they do to get her interested in sex again?Sex is supposed to be fun. So if she's not wanting it, clearly there's something else going on. Often she doesn't feel emotionally connected/wanted, she is not physically enjoying it every time, or she is too busy. It's not because women are trying to punish their men or trap them into marriage. Only 29% of women report always having orgasms with their partner. People don't just randomly decide to hate fun things. Either she never enjoyed it all along and is just stopping, or something has changed. Either way it's fixable, but throwing temper tantrums about how unfair it is to have to work isn't a solution.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (25 August 2012): O.P. here again.
Cereberus I read your whole last comment but I don't get what you are trying to say with it.
I said that a woman blaming her man for her lack of sexual interest in him is like a man blaming his woman for his lack of romantic interest in her. You answered like I was defending men for not being romantically interested in their partners. That was never my point. I was never trying to defend that.
I think neither of those attitudes is healthy and fair. But one side gets a pass and the other side does not.
When a man does not try to keep their romance alive then it's his own fault. But when a woman does not try to keep their sex life alive .... then its still the man's own fault?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (25 August 2012): "What if when a woman complained that her man did not romance her enough, he blamed her for the whole problem and did not accept any blame or responsibility for not doing his part?"
Then nothing gets solved and he doesn't get to have sex. It just becomes a petty game of toing and froing and neither get satisfied.
"What if her man said "I would take her out a lot more if she would bother to still be new and sexy and intriguing enough to make me want to again. She needs to step up her effort. Its not my problem she has gotten boring to me.""
You see OP that's a chicken and egg scenario because in my experience women put a lot more effort into their appearance when you're taking them out often and they too are happy, are not being told that they've become boring and they need to make more of an effort to dress and act like a prostitute.
OP relationships based on this kind of petty pride and "I won't do something unless she does this first." is a load of crap and not healthy. It becomes a battlefield then of one-upmanship and both partners lose. The logical order of things is simple, you have to romance your lady to get her in the mood. You have to do while dating to get her into bed too usually, it's the logical order of things generally.
Besides if a woman has gotten boring to a guy then she's not the right woman for him. Because regardless of whether my girlfriend dresses up, regardless of whether she sits around in her PJ's all day and doesn't wash her hair to me she's beautiful and she's never boring because I get as much satisfaction out of the conversations we have as I do the sex because she highly intelligent. She's my partner, not a trophy that has to make an effort to be beautiful for me, she just is already and there is nothing boring about her.
OP the only time one-upmanship ever enters our relationship is as part of fun, playing video games or pool and battling each other for supremacy. It has no place in any kind of serious way, we're partners not adversaries trying to outdo each other and acting like children.
"It overlooks the fact that one partner is not even trying to fulfill their part of what is expected in a healthy relationship."
No it doesn't OP because both of their needs aren't being met, her need for romance and his need for sex. He doesn't want to romance her because "she's boring" and she doesn't want to have sex with him because he too has stopped making the effort and has become boring too. That doesn't sound anything like a healthy relationship to me OP, those two people shouldn't be together. If they can't even find a way around their pettiness.
"I think this is about the same logic as telling sexually frustrated men that they need to do more to get women in the mood."
Again it's not OP, I mean come on you're married, does your wife have to perform all the time for you? Is she constantly on call to meet your needs and does she have to put on makeup and dress for you to find her "interesting"? Surely you wouldn't have married her if she had to make an effort all the time make herself sexy for you? I mean my girlfriend just has to lick her lips and give me that "I want to be fucked right now" look with a cheeky smile and it's on. She can be sitting at her desk concentrating on typing up project work biting her lip the way she does or twiddling a pen and I still after 7 years can get lost in her beauty in that moment. I still take the time to appreciate her ass when she bends over to pick up something, I still get a kick out of seeing down her blouse when she reaches across me to grab something.
"It puts all the blame on the other frustrated partner for not being good enough to make them want to do it anymore. Its not fair to the frustrated person."
OP again you have to think of the logical order and it comes back to the light switch. My girl can make me horny by just giving me "come get me" eyes and she does that quite a lot because she's a sexual creature. I have to take the time kiss her, stroke her, tell how beautiful and sexy she is to get her in the mood. Show her how loved and important she is to me on a daily basis so she'll both be open to it when I initiate it or will initiate it herself. That to me is a healthy relationship, she gives me all I give her and we can talk out any issues we have and listen too.
Neither of us have ever had a reason to deny the other anything on the basis we feel the other isn't doing enough and neither of us would accept pettiness on such a serious thing. We're not children, we don't throw our toys out of the pram we discuss things and neither of us would be with the other if we were that petty.
Besides OP after 7 years together we know enough about each to know what the other needs to remain happy and we both step up to fulfil those things. Any other way is pointless in the extreme.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (25 August 2012): O.P. here. What if when a woman complained that her man did not romance her enough, he blamed her for the whole problem and did not accept any blame or responsibility for not doing his part? What if her man said "I would take her out a lot more if she would bother to still be new and sexy and intriguing enough to make me want to again. She needs to step up her effort. Its not my problem she has gotten boring to me." I think this is about the same logic as telling sexually frustrated men that they need to do more to get women in the mood. It overlooks the fact that one partner is not even trying to fulfill their part of what is expected in a healthy relationship. It puts all the blame on the other frustrated partner for not being good enough to make them want to do it anymore. Its not fair to the frustrated person.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2012): I agree with person12345 to an extent but I've generally been more successful when I focused more on the emotional and mental build up to sex when the problem is one of refusal and just not feeling like it. It's all well and good making the physical side of sexual satisfaction great but even when you know how to do all that and she knows you're a mutual satisfaction lover if she doesn't feel it emotionally then it's not going to happen.
This is all assuming that the guy is a mutual satisfaction type of guy though, if he's not then he has to ensure he is but I always assume people are because it's the most obvious thing and the easiest to fix.
It takes a lot more than just being a great lover physically to make a woman want you sexually in the long term. In my experience it's far more important to keep a woman emotionally and mentally satisfied or she just won't be interested in sex with you, although I do admit there are plenty of women who only get that that kind of lust from relationships filled with drama and "excitement".
Saying all that though sometimes there's nothing at all you can do as I have heard of a lot of women only giving sex when they felt they had to and once married felt they no longer needed to bother. In fact to my knowledge most women feel that way about giving head, there are plenty of jokes and stereotypes but from the married men I know it's generally true and the lucky ones only get them on birthdays and special occasions.
Dry spells are part of life, but a man or a woman who stops caring about the needs of their partner in any way is not a true partner and hence should not be tolerated. Poor sex life is a reasonable grounds for divorce and one I would certainly go for if I found myself in that position.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (24 August 2012):
I used to think I hated sex. Then I got a partner who actually genuinely cared about my pleasure in it, rather than caring in the sense that it was necessary for him to get more sex. "Magically" my sex drive went from nil to at least once a day. If you stop seeing sex as an entitlement or something she can do for you or should do for you and more as something you can both enjoy equally, my guess is things would change.
It's really not complicated. If you make sure sex is fun for her, she'll like it. If you make sex into a chore she has to do to make you happy, she will not like it. If you are constantly telling her that she isn't giving you enough sex, it falls into the latter category. If you try to find out how to make sex more enjoyable, it will fall into the former.
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male
reader, SensitiveBloke +, writes (24 August 2012):
My understanding is that the sex drive for women can vary enormously from woman to woman. Some women are simply not interested in sex full stop. Others crave it. I think it's fundamentally determined by physiology. The partner obviously can have some effect, but in the main it's physiological. It causes so much unhappiness for so many men who try everything they can but to no avail.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2012): "I was speaking about the cases where a woman shows zero sexual interest in her partner and just expects him to go without a sex life indefinitely. Or she very occasionally gives in and "gets it over with" only after he has been complaining and begging for it to the point of losing all dignity and she just wants to shut him up."I really have no idea when it became OK, but I'm in this situation, as are almost all of the married guys I know. I sometimes wonder if it's because most of my friends are devoted husbands and fathers. They might get more sex if they weren't so dedicated and their wife was afraid of losing them.I did know a rather slimy guy at one time who was quite open about his sexual conquests outside of his marriage. He bragged that his wife got really good in bed when she found out he was sleeping around.It's possible men give in to the never-ending laundry list of things that need to be done before their wife will have sex with them. (e.g. "honey, I'm just too tired tonight, did you carry out the trash, clean the toilets, fix my car, buy me flowers, and sing a love song to me? You know I can't get in the mood without that.") It seems the more men try to please their wives and do everything right to please them, the more they seem like spineless whimps that the wife can walk all over. The the sex life goes into a death spiral with the man acting like more and more of spineless p*ssy in an attempt to get sex from his wife, and she has less and less respect for him and demands more and more, only to disrespect him and lose interest in sex more and more.I just don't buy the whole notion that it's always the man's fault for not doing enough around the house, not romancing his wife enough, etc. It depends on the situation. Sometimes it can be almost the exact opposite.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (23 August 2012): O.P. here.
I am not suffering from this problem. I asked the question because I have heard and read about it so often.
I was not trying to have a thread about declining sex lives or mismatched sexual drives. I was speaking about the cases where a woman shows zero sexual interest in her partner and just expects him to go without a sex life indefinitely. Or she very occasionally gives in and "gets it over with" only after he has been complaining and begging for it to the point of losing all dignity and she just wants to shut him up.
The important point is that she not only denies him a sex life, but she also acts like he has no right to even be dissatisfied about it.
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male
reader, Xearo +, writes (23 August 2012):
I think it goes both ways, since men do stop putting in the effort. A lot of men figure that it ends at the altar and that a good marriage is a shortcut. I don't think that there are no short cuts I do believe that women in marriage still want the romance, sappy love letters and deep affection. I think in marriage, a lot of the romance is thrown out the window. I think if there are men out there who still gets sex on a normal basis, he prolly shows his wife a lot of affection and romance.
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female
reader, oldbag +, writes (23 August 2012):
 Hi
Well a dry spell is one thing, for numerous reasons,health tiredness etc etc.As a permanant thing, sex once a month or less is just not on.
If all avenues have been explored, talking, counselling,romantic weekends away,whatever and sex is being rationed,your made to feel guilty for asking or always initiating...then your not compatable and its time to go. It means your partners selfish and uncaring in my view.
I wouldn't want to be with a man who didnt 'want' me,whats the point?
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (23 August 2012):
Women don't just go off sex very often. It's almost always the result of something else that is fixable. Women like orgasms and things like that just as much as men do.
For every woman who doesn't feel like having sex anymore in her marriage, there is a man who doesn't feel like he needs to put the effort into pleasuring her anymore. If sex for you involved someone using you to masturbate into while you felt no sensation from it, would you want to keep doing it? No, of course not. A lot of times her pleasure becomes very secondary, something to do on special occasions. If women were having easy orgasms every single time they had sex, like men do, there would be a lot fewer questions from men wishing their wife/girlfriend would want more sex. It's really quite simple, if she enjoys sex, she will do it. If not, she's going to resent him and stop having sex eventually. Many of those problems could be fixed just by getting her a vibrator. No work for either of them, and very fast. If her orgasm becomes a given rather than a question, she will almost certainly want more sex. But just being poked in the vagina? That's not fun.
Also like Cerberus said, we aren't light switches. It would be lovely if we were, but we aren't. After awhile some guys tend to think if they just come up to their wife with a boner, she will suddenly by overcome with horniness. We usually take longer to turn on. Not like candles and roses, but just telling her she's beautiful and spending some time passionately kissing her before you try for sex will go a long way.
Also finally, women still do 2-3x the childcare and housework, and the childcare and housework they do is almost always the most tedious and unfulfilling tasks, which means that she is essentially always having to work (assuming she has a job like the vast majority of women). If your woman has gone off sex, take a look at the division of labor. If she only gets an hour of free time each day, she's probably not going to want to spend it having sex. So scrub the toilets, do the dishes (picking things up off the ground does not count), do some of the unpleasant childcare (watching Sesame Street together also doesn't count) then see if that helps.
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male
reader, SensitiveBloke +, writes (23 August 2012):
I know exactly how you feel as i was in the same situation myself. I don't understand why some women do this, but some women HATE having sex with their partner if they don't desire them and they believe you are being selfish for asking them to do something they hate. They think it's fine to refuse sex every time you ask. Yes, their behaviour is selfish but i'm sorry i don't know how to help you :-(
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 August 2012): "But I hear about women all the time who literally act like their man has no right to expect a sex life from them."
Unfortunately I hear that a hell of a lot too. Not in my own life but I have quite a few friends in the same position. What's worse is they love these women in every way only to discover that she only put in the effort when she felt she had to and as soon as she felt she had him she just stopped caring. Even amongst my friend who have sex regularly still they find out that they will never get head again but still have to give it because penetration alone doesn't do it for their girlfriends.
Now there are other circumstances such as pregnancy, bouts of depression, poor self-image, menopause etc. that can really kill a woman's libido to the point where the woman gets used to not having sex and has no desire for it. There is also the issue of our attractiveness waning as we get bald and grow a beer belly etc.
I have a simple fool proof way around this to be honest, I can be patient and I don't mind dry spells but my girlfriend doesn't ever need reminding of my needs, she wants to fulfil them and in fact it is me that has to try comfort her and help her not feel bad about going through a dry patch.
The way around it is easy, if they don't acknowledge your needs, if they don't want to satisfy them even when they feel they can't for the moment, then they're not compatible with me sexually and it's time to reconsider the entire thing. I know for a fact if a dry spell lasted more than a few months without any discernible reason my girlfriend my girlfriend would do everything in her power to discover why and fix it. I would simply not stay with a woman who doesn't think I have a right to sexual satisfaction.
One final thing though OP, have you considered that maybe it's the way guys approach this? Most women can't just be switched on like a light bulb as we generally can especially later in the relationship you have to do a lot more work at it to put them in the mood. When I talk to some of my friends they're main problem is they just wanted to roll over and hop on and got pissed off because she wasn't in the mood, them being pissed off made her want it less and it kind of spiralled a bit. I advised one a few months back to bring back the romance more into the relationship and try and woo her the same way he used to when they started dating, to break the monotony of the routine and make her feel special and desirable again, it worked for him because lot of the time when women don't have interest in sex it can be because their partner thinks his work is done and doesn't bother to be romantic anymore.
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female
reader, demeplev +, writes (23 August 2012):
 And my question would flip that why is it that everytime I am in a serious relationship or married suddenly the sex goes down the drain?( I have posted about this very problem in the past),
I admit most of my male friends have complained about this very problem you speak of their wives denying sex..hmmm honestly I personally cant answer because that is so alien to me I cant even conceive I have the flip problem maybe someone like you and me should have connected..lol but in all honesty I agree with the rest of the aunts...life changes relationships change, especially after kids and add age to that equation...but seriously I want sex all the time everyday multiple times a day even but im lucky if i get it twice a month..grrrr goodluck.
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female
reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (23 August 2012):
 Is this happening to you? If yes, was the sex great before you married? Was this the old bait and switch situation?
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (23 August 2012):
 I think it's really rare that a women will be a great sex partner up on til the time she gets a ring on the finger. There HAS to have been indications BEFORE the marriage that sex wasn't a priority or there has to have been indications the she has a low libido, getting bad sex, is suffering from depression, stress or a medical conditions that kills the libido.
Most women I know loves sex as much as any guy I know.
Sex DOES change after marriage, it changes again after kids too.
But what you (OP) describe, I think it rare. But with that said, I don't think it's ever OK to pretend you like to do this or that, and once you feel you can actually be honest (after marriage for the women you describe) you stop "liking" it.
And honestly, I don't think ANY man (or woman) have ANY right to EXPECT sex from a partner. That just sounds like they are a proverbial SEX ATM machine. Nor do I think ANY man or woman ought to withhold sex to punish or one-up their partner.
I honestly, don't think it's ALL women not wanting to put out and ALL men who tries hard.
The "trick" is to find someone whom you are compatible with in as many aspects as possible and SURELY in the sexual aspect.
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female
reader, k_c100 +, writes (23 August 2012):
 Quite simply, it is not ok, it has never been ok and if you have somehow ended up with a woman who thinks that sex is not an important part of the relationship well you have made a poor choice in partner I'm afraid.
I think it we are all sensible when choose a partner then we would all avoid this problem. Of course sex is far more frequent early on in the relationship, and through this site I have heard of many women that pretend to enjoy sex more than they really do, or pretend to enjoy certain sexual acts just to keep hold of their man, and then reveal months or years down the line that they dont enjoy sex and they only did these things at first to please him.
But putting that aside, if you stay with your partner for a year or two before making any further serious comittments, you can see what their libido is like and whether it matches yours. If you choose to marry someone or get serious with someone who clearly is not bothered about sex, well that is your choice - you made your bed now lie in it as they say! People often rush into marriage and end up not knowing everything about their partner, then they are stuck married to someone they are not sexually compatible with.
I appreciate sometimes it changes after marriage, and the sex slows down hence you had no way of predicting this change - in which case you need to get to couples counselling and get your wife/partner to see a doctor to find out why her libido has reduced so drastically.
A lot of women enjoy sex and want it more than once a month, and I would say that most women understand how important sex is in a relationship. If you are unlucky enough to be with one of the women who dont value sex, it is either a case of get her to the doctors and get some counselling to sort the problem out, or you just made a very poor choice in choosing her as your long term partner.
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