A
male
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:I am a separated male who still is friendly with my wife, we have 2 beautiful teenage girls and we remain very close after 6 years of separation. We still share family vacations and days out as a family and even the bed 1 - 2 times a month.I live on my own in an apartment and my wife lives in the house, we are happy with the arrangement and neither of us wants to divorce. She is the perfect mother and I still would do anything for her.The sex however is very stale, she has always had a low sex drive and I find it boring which is why I went elsewhere and we separated.over 3 years ago I met a married woman at work, she is older than me but very unhappily married, her husband hand her have different bedrooms.We got on very well connected and ended up having a relationship, she was willing to leave her husband and move in my apartment with me.The sex between us was mind blowing, she was very passionate and fulfilled me totally.At first I felt like it was a friends with benefits but as time passed we spent more time together, 2 evenings a week, we watched movies, sometimes she would cook for me.I felt in many ways we were like a couple but I was terrified my wife would find out even though we are separated. She and my daughters are church goers and my wife is catholic and I was always aware and concerned if my wife knew I was seeing somebody or had sex with that person then we would lose this beautiful connection we have had for 20 years and also I really didn't want my daughters to find out as both are doing well at Uni.They may well disown me as they see me and their Mum as kind of together.The other woman I felt was becoming miserable, she became unstable finishing the relationship over an dover and then we would make up but I sensed and she told me she wasn't happy.She wanted more of me but I felt the 2 x a week was enough because of our circumstances. I did not want her to leave her husband incase things never worked out for us and her husband is a security blanket for her.We had a date for Valentines Day and I was very late, this upset her and a few weeks later she ended it again. She became bitter and nasty, not the wonderful woman that I had shared special moments with.She sent me a terrible abusive e-mail calling me terrible names, and then ended it.I did try to call her and was shocked to find she has changed her number, in the 3. 5 years we have been together she has never done this.Almost 2 months has gone and for the first time I saw her today, she was going into her car, I wound down the window to ask if she was ok, she said I hate you, I told her not to be immature, she put her middle finger up and I could see hatred in her eyes. She has changed so much, she was never like this when we were together she was loving and so kind and sweet, it is like she has been possessed.I want to be friends with her but just don't know how to implement this, I could e-mail her but I am sensing she has changed her e-mail. Her sex drive is high and now after 2 months I sense she has been with somebody else.I don't want to lose the friendship. We both know and understand each other so well. Please advise.
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at work, divorce, friend with benefits, immature, married woman, sex drive Reply to this Question
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYes Cindy you are absolutely right in all that you say. When you mentioned the words"dirty little secret"I remembered her clearly saying those exact words that she was fed up of being my " dirty little secret"
Cindy I may not like what you have written but maybe it was the wake up call I needed. So would like to thank you got being understanding and providing me with excellent insight. You get the 5 stars deservedly. ???
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (16 May 2014):
 I know you wanted advice on how to win your lover back, but the only sensible advice, and the only practical way, would be " Easy. Get a divorce, become single and available, and probably she will forgive you " is also the only one that you are definitely never going to follow, so, frankly, OP, what do you expect ?
It's not a matter of bashing or scolding or accusing you ( although, as you admit, your behavior is far from above reproach ) - it's a matter of being practical, and keeping your feet on the ground.
The world does not revolve around you, there's not just you and your sex drive and your happiness, they are not the center of the universe - there 's also what other people want and feel, and you have to take it into account, in your situation, whether you like it or not.
What have you got to offer to a woman, other than your passion and your sex drive ? You are a husband, and live like a husband. You never told us if you are legally separated, and I think this silence is meaningful, I guess that no, you just separated your addresses - but, not that it would make a huge difference, in practice.
In practice you can't ever divorce, ever make future plans with another woman, ever go live with her, you can't even, I guess, take a vacation with her, or being seen in public, at a restaurant, a party, etc. You can't introduce your new object of love to your friends or relatives, you can't even SAY you are with her. Whomever you happened to be with, she is destined , best case scenario, to be your dirty little secret, your unofficial bit on the side.
Guess what, that's not much to offer to most women, particularly in your age range, being the mistress gets stale and boring too, pretty soon. Fantasy and chemistry in the bedroom are a good thing, but they work better for a short fling, an escapade. If it goes on, and if feelings develop on her side, or both sides, if she gets attached, if she really just likes you or even loves you, she will feel STUPID, and humbled, and used and mistreated having to accept to be a dirty secret. After all, there are only so many hours that you can spend in the bedroom, but you have to come up for air, and then ?... If she ( this woman , or another ) likes you so much, naturally she will wish to spend the holidays with you, or to travel with you, or to share a house with you etc. etc.. Why should she make do with occasional, secret encounters, and not a real relationship, - just because you are a wuss and are afraid of what your grown up daugthers might say, or your relatives migt say ? You can't grow balls... and that should be her problem ? ... Uhm, not many women would see it that way. Guess what, maybe THEY have children or relatives of friends who would be hurt or scandalized or upset knowing that Mom ( or Sis, etc.etc. ) is the plaything of a married guy.
With this woman it worked at first , and she was accepting of your ( self imposed ) limitations at first, because she was married to and she was cheating too. Then she grew balls enough to be willing to come out clean, so that you two could have a real relationship, but you did not , you preferred to keep your charade up. So, why should she be coming back, even when the first anger is over ? She can offer to you passion AND committment, you can only offer her secret passionate moments. It's a bad bargain, very uneven- and she would be a big fool to take it !
Other women will reason like her - and the one before her.
So, there's really nothing else for you to do that, either alter the current status quo and become your own person again, or keep the current ststus quo but accept that your next flings have an expiry date on them and they will only last as long as the illusions and the patience of your mistress, which may be much less than it's convenient for you.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHello Cindy CaresIn answer to your question my wife and I have been married for 25 years, I will be perfectly honest and say I stayed initially with her for our daughters.She is a wonderful woman in many ways but the sex has always been cold, always the same and I was and am still totally bored. I do enjoy it but it is really boring for me.Regarding the separation we argued a lot and this was having a detrimental effect on our 2 daughters.It was constant arguing and then she used the little sex we were having as a weapon.I am a very passionate person who likes sex a lot, I like to be adventurous and imaginative.She was never passionate.But we stayed together for all these years and have a lot of history.Our daughters grew up and after we moved to Canada things got worse, the arguments increased and we finally decided to separate. it was hard for us both and our daughters.We didn't know too many people here and English is not our first language so the first few years of being separated was tough.I continued to visit the family who live close by, we still had days out together and I did find a lover who fell in love with me, she was single had no baggage young attractive, but as soon as she wanted commitment I had to cut it.My fear is if my family find out they will disown me, my daughters are also involved with the church and so I have this fear that if my wife would find out my beloved daughters would turn against me.I cannot take that risk as I feel I belong in the circle.We have the same friends and of course the same relatives.We speak our native language fluently and even though we are not together in the marital home we share time together.I met my next lover, ( yes I know it sounds bad) 3 . 5 years ago.She was deeply unhappy and we formed a great relationship, she is married as I have previously stated, older than myself but looks younger.We shared great times together, we connected well on every level. The sex was truly amazing. I miss her a lot and never told her that we would be together some day, she knew our limitations, she also knew I slept with my wife occasionally and also knew it was poor quality sex.She appeared to understand everything, my fear of losing my family, my daughters and even relatives if they got to learn about my infidelity.But I know she wanted something more and I could see over time she was becoming increasingly miserable as her feelings grew.She broke with me so many times but somehow with an e-mail or me calling her we got around it and made up but after a few weeks she found another reason to break and this continuing cycle went on and on.I was becoming fed up of her breaking, she was becoming unstable and unbalanced and I was always wondering each time we parted if she was going to break again.The latest was she broke 7 weeks ago, same as so many times except this time it has dragged on for 7 weeks and she has changed her number, something she has never done before, I have not tried to e-mail her but I am suspecting she may have blocked my e-mail.Even when we have broke before, after 3 - 4 weeks at the most she has softened and welcomed me back with loving arms, she overcame the argument or disagreement but this time she has turnt nasty and bitter even though the reason she broke was for something small.Never have I seen her look at me with hatred in her eyes after 7 long weeks and to be so rude and vulgar to put her middle finger up.Anyway hope this answers some of your questions.I still hope I can win her back. I miss her a lot, I miss our friendship, we used to talk about everything and anything. I came to this web site to ask advice on how I can win her back, instead I got a lot of abuse and bashing but its ok, I can see I deserve it. Thanks for taking the time to everyone for reading my posts and replying .
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 May 2014): OP, you seem to have a problem of letting go of people, it would be beneficial for you to seek counselling to help you work through these fears of yours so you can move forward with your life.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (15 May 2014):
Something does not add up here.
" .. which is why I went to live somewhere else and we separate ". " Which is why ", being your boring ,stale sex life.
That would imply that your wife knows that you find your sex life boring and stale ( although you still share her bed, once or twice a month... which is normal for several normal, non separated couples in your age range, LOL ). That she has been infomed that in your opinion sex with her is boring and stale- and she sees well your point, to the extent of letting you go live somewhere else. That would also imply that the very reason for you to move out, is to let you have a different, less boring and stale, sex life. Otherwise, if the only problem is sex, and you and your wife get along so well- why even moving out ??!! . You could simply have stayed home , without having stale and boring sex with her. Or just having sex wit her only once a month, as you are already doing now.
So, it would sound as if the whole idea of you moving out is for you to have sex with somebody else, and that your wife knows it, or imagines it, and agrees.
But then, you come out saying that you are scared that your wife might find out that you are seeing some other woman and having sex with her. In other words, you are bound to have secret affairs same as if you were totally officially completely married.
So, .. obviously your wife does not agree that you should have a sex life wit any other woman than herself, and as for being boring and stale in bed, she either does not know you feel this way, or she knows but does not think it's reason enough to free you from your marital obligations of fidelity.
Then, what does it mean " which is why .. we separated ? "
Are you even separated legally ? Or, did you just move to another place, and in this second case, did you give her the real reason why, or did you come up with some fib about " work reasons " , " it's closer to my work ", " I need an extra room for my gym equipment " etc.etc. ?
I am asking this not just out of curiosity ( although, yes, I am curious , I admit it ! ) , but because it would explain very well the hatred and bitterness that the other woman feels now. I mean, in case you had told her the same story you told us ( I am separated but I do not want to divorce, because of the kids, or because my wife is catholic, blah blah )- and then she finds out that you bullshitted her, and for all intents and purposes , you are just like a regular married guy, who has to toe the line, and not get caugt , like any other MARRIED guy. You may live in another apartment, but, in practice, you are a husband and have to live like a husband- not like an EX husband..
Of course she would be furious. I think one of the things people hate most in life is being lied to and being condescended too as if they were little kids incapable of handling the truth. People may accept to step into murky waters- but they like to know WHICH waters exactly.
Maybe she would have accepted all the same an affair with a MARRIED guy ( she is married too !)- but not with a " separated " guy who is actually just a husband with a dufferent address, and not a separated guy with the emotional, social, practical indipendence of an EX husband.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused  +, writes (15 May 2014):
 DO you really care about this woman? If so, you will respect her enough to leave her alone.
If you don't want your wife to know about this then I think you need to re-evaluate your marriage since you are NOT separated even if you live apart. Separation has to be emotional as well as physical.
What you want is an open marriage... talk to the wife about this... it may work out that you can move back home and still have fun and games on the side.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (15 May 2014):
 You're MARRIED! You may be living in different places, but unless you're in an open relationship with your wife and can be open with her that you're seeing and sleeping with other people, then you're cheating.
You want a life catered to you, with your wife for stability and sex kittens to service your other needs. You want other women to tailor to you, yet when they start wanting things from you. Not to mention you chose a married woman so that you could get all the goodies but not have to have a relationship.
You can't use women like this. You're using your wife and daughters. You were using this married woman, and she got fed up. The middle finger pretty much says it about your chances.
You are using and emotionally abusing the women in your life. How many more lives will you destroy and how many more middle fingers and hurt feelings will it take for you to realize that you can't treat women like this? The last straw was when you pretty much stood up this other woman at V. Day.
She shouldn't have been cheating on her husband. You both should have divorced or have open relationships.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (15 May 2014):
 "I was terrified my wife would find out"
Right there. There it is. That's where your heart is. You were more concerned with your wife's finding out than being with your "friend." You never once in your question said you were in love with your FWB. You only used the words "friend" and "friendship."
If you wanted to be with her for real, then you would have made some plans. You didn't. She finally figured out you weren't ever going to end your marriage. I'm pretty sure she also knows you're still having sex with your wife.
And again you prove my point.
I
I
I
my broken heart
What about hers? Does that not compute?
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (15 May 2014):
What broken heart? You never said you were in love with her. You stayed in the marriage and in the marital bed with your wife for the entire time you were with her.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (15 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYou ladies here are hard on me :o(
Im nursing a broken heart :o(
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (14 May 2014):
 You can't MAKE her want to talk to you. YOU can't MAKE her WANT to give any comfort or closure.
YOU made your bed and now... you have lie in it.
ALL you really CAN do is LEARN from this. So that the NEXT woman you "befriend" won't feel so betrayed and used by YOU.
You really NEED to accept that she wants NOTHING to do with you. It might be partly out of shame for her OWN actions, it might be partly because she didn't know you were just using her.
And you need to have some respect for the fact that she doesn't WANT contact.
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A
female
reader, Aunty BimBim  +, writes (14 May 2014):
 Her middle finger gesture was your closure and about all you deserve.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (14 May 2014):
Dude. She changed her email and her phone number just so she wouldn't have to talk to you. Respect that.
You will have to make your own closure. I know you rely on your wife and previously on your FWB for your emotional support but it's time you put on the big man pants and emotionally supported yourself into recognizing that the burden of providing closure falls on YOU. Not your former bestie FWB.
She is not responsible for absolving you of your relationship sins, basically. YOU are responsible for your own feelings. She has moved on, very clearly and crisply and her line under the relationship has been drawn by herself.
You will have to draw your own line.
If you keep on trying to talk to her you are going to come across as stalkerish and will only make yourself look pathetic.
If you are struggling to deal with this then it's time to find someone objective and professional to speak with about it. If you are Catholic, like your wife, then the priest would be a great place to start. If you are not, then talk to your doctor and get a referral to a counselor, psychologist or psychiatrist.
One other thing I wanted to point out. Your last followup: "Thing is I get what everyone is saying but I really miss her a lot and I am not just referring to the wonderful sex but her company too. We used to talk for hours about everything and anything. I need advice on how I can at least talk to her and get some closure. I want to at least draw a line in the same and end this more amicably. I can't handle the fact that she appears to hate me." In 5 sentences, you used the word "I" or "me" 8 times. It appears to be all about your and your feelings. You lack imagination and empathy if you cannot see things from her side. It's a lot egotistical.
She changed her number and her email. She doesn't want to talk to you. You will have to find your own closure. She doesn't owe you anything.
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A
female
reader, celtic_tiger  +, writes (14 May 2014):
 " I can't handle the fact that she appears to hate me."
OP - in all honesty what do you expect her to do? She wanted a relationship with you, and you basically said no.
She feels used, hurt and probably feels like a bit of an unpaid prostitute. You only wanted her for sex.
You have NO intention of leaving your wife. That is obvious, so to try and pretend with this woman that you want a relationship with her is a bare faced lie.
If you wanted a relationship with Lady#2 then you should have divorced your WIFE and tried a full time relationship.
Until you DIVORCE you are not really available for a relationship with a normal woman. Most women do not want to share their partner with a current wife.
You have hurt this woman a lot. I do not think you deserve 'closure' as you knew exactly what you were getting into. Lady#2 has every right to hate you. You lied, cheated and misled her from day 1. You come across as very selfish and self-centered and the only person you feel sorry for is yourself.
It is time to make your mind up about what you want - because you cannot have your cake and eat it.
NO woman will accept a relationship with a man who still sleeps with his wife twice a week and goes on family holidays.
WIFE or Other Relationship?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (14 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThing is I get what everyone is saying but I really miss her a lot and I am not just referring to the wonderful sex but her company too. We used to talk for hours about everything and anything. I need advice on how I can at least talk to her and get some closure. I want to at least draw a line in the same and end this more amicably. I can't handle the fact that she appears to hate me.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (14 May 2014):
You've already lost whatever friendship you had with this woman.
she wanted more than friendship and a bit of hanky panky on the side.. you just wanted to scratch your itch.
you are enjoying an alternative marriage (basically you are married but living apart by choice. I don't see it as separated since you still sleep together and you have family events)
just find a new woman to have sex with who is ok with your odd marital arrangement. and stop telling folks you are separated... you are not..
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A
female
reader, Ciar +, writes (14 May 2014):
 For God's sake leave this one alone and move on.
This manifestation you're seeing was always there. You just never had a reason to see it before because everything was going so well. I daresay her husband has seen it countless times.
I understand that she's a bit put out, but if she wants to be free to enjoy a better relationship she's going to have to bite the bullet and make some big changes at home (fix the marriage or end it).
She's handled this very poorly and I think you should steer clear of her.
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A
female
reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (14 May 2014):
 "I don't want to lose the friendship. We both know and understand each other so well. Please advise."
First off the so called friendship doesn't exist anymore if it ever did. You obviously don't know and understand her at all or you wouldn't be in this situation. Give it up and find yourself someone else you can screw with...in every sense of the word.
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A
male
reader, RevMick +, writes (14 May 2014):
 Hi,
You mention friends but what you really mean is, I'm sorry to use this word but 'fuck buddy'. You can't have your cake and eat everyone else's cake too.
If you are happy with your wife in terms of everything but sex, then you need to work on that. If you can't have the sex you want, then you need to stop stringing your wife along and get a divorce.
The only issue is that you tricked a woman who was in a bad situation with her husband, into thinking you wanted more than sex (which you didn't).
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (14 May 2014):
I think you should LEAVE lady#2 alone.
She had NO idea that you weren't serious about her. She had no idea that she was JUST a fuck-buddy to you. SHE was ready to GIVE her her marriage/husband/security blanket FOR YOU. And what does she find out? That you just wanted the sex, and occasional company.
She spend 3 1/2 YEARS with you thinking it would head somewhere.
If she is now a BITTER and angry woman THAT is on her.
She could have LEFT her husband and found her own two feet, not relying on a man (you) to "help" her move from being married to a new relationship.
You relationship with your wife is so bogus. You pretend to be single and she pretends to be still married. YOU two need to (sorry for being cruse here) SHIT or get off the pot.
If you two continue this charade, then I SUGGEST that NEXT time you find yourself a LOVER that you will be HONEST with your WIFE (because she still IS your wife) and your lover, not live in la-la land and STOP playing games. Talking about MOVING your lover in with you, means something to most people. Just because the sex in the marriage sucked doesn't mean OTHER women should be USED for YOUR benefit.
You, sir... need to grow up and realize that EVERY action has consequences.
NOT that I'm saying Lady#2 was totally innocent, she CHEATED on her husband with you, and you cheated on HER with your wife and on your wife with her. WHAT a complete mess.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (14 May 2014): Just maybe she realised that all you want is sex and she wants a full filling relationship. Not every woman wants to be used for sex. You can call it friendship or any other name, it was just sex to you as you have a family and want the sex on the side. Leave her alone and let her heal. No business of yours if she sleeping with someone else. I suspect she is looking for love and happiness and you really hurt her.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (14 May 2014): Good luck with being friends with her...so you created a relationship with her, which you then knew she wanted more commitment from to the point she would leave her husband for you. You on the other hand are still creeping into your "wife's" bed for "stale" sex whilst having this other lady at your call. I can see why this woman wants nothing to do with you.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (14 May 2014): Friends? Really? You mean have sex with her as a friend? That has a name you know, friends with benefits. I think you know exactly what happened here. You are one of those guys who want women around without you making any effort. You have this weird situation with your ex wife, where you are not husband and wife anymore, but you till can't have sex with another woman???That's total nonsense. And I don't believe for a second that you and your wife are totaly done. I think you guys still doing it sometimes. Otherwise why would she care if you sleep with other women. You gave theother women false hopes, and I think she really fell for you, until she found out what you really are. She realized that you will never be with her, it will always be these 2 times a week. And I think you talked about living together and make it official, but then you started playing waiting games with her, not telling her the truth, but still keeping her near you and on edge.I don't even understand why she waited to broke it off with you. From what you described, it would be obvious to me that this is all you needed : a fuck buddy. It would be ok if she wanted the same. What makes t awfull is that you knew all the time that she wants to be with you, and you kepton telling her that yes this will happen, knowing all along that it would never happen. You live a life of lies, you lied to both: your ex, who for some weird reason doesn't want you to have sex with anyone else despite the fact that ou are separated, and this other woman. Also are you really that surprised of hostility coming from your ex lover? Based on your actions didnt you kind of.....expected it?
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A
female
reader, Aunty BimBim +, writes (14 May 2014):
Doesn't really matter what you want does it, what matters here is this lady is not interested in a sex buddy relationship with you, while you, on the other hand, seem to be a chap who has become used to having your cake and eating it too!
The lady in question wanted a full on relationship with you it wasn't up to you to decide if she needed to stay married as a security blanket or not ....
Maybe you need to ask yourself why she changed her number, why she gave you the middle finger and why she was angry when you were late for your valentines day dose of unencumbered sex.
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