A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:From experience and observation, I know for a fact that a huge majority men do NOT give a crap about a woman's personality. They just instantly know whether they are going to put up with a woman's crap or not. If you find someone physically attractive and you think you have a shot at them, you would put up with more of their bs than anyone else.It seems like if a guy finds a woman physically attractive (she fits into the category of what he calls good looking), he will decide that he wants to be serious about her. It has hardly anything to do with her personality or how nice she is to him. Some women think that it's because they act innocent or whatever, it has nothing to do with that. I think if a guy is going to like you, he's going to like you no matter what you do.My question is why do guys (I am sure women do the same thing but I am asking about men) pretend like they are looking for a great personality when it's really just physical attraction they are looking for? I guess it's possible that people are so blinded/guilt ridden by their shallowness that they can't even admit it to themselves. Reply to this Question
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (23 September 2013): Well, the problem with your theory is you are lumping all men into one category. It simply isn't true. The sooner a man matures and the older he gets changes how they see women. It's mostly superficial in the beginning (and initially with everyone), but after some time is spent with a women most men can figure out who are right now girls and who are the ones they want to take home to Mom.If I am not attracted to a girl at some level at first sight, it's not likely I will go any further. And when I was in my 20's and 30's, it was all superficial. And then I realized I kept getting the same results, with different girls because of what I was attracted to. Now, I see a lot more and if they are beautiful and open there mouth and are stupid, arrogant, talk like a truck driver or are looking for someone to take care of them, are party girls, they get ugly really, really fast.
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (23 September 2013):
 They key to your submittal is “if you find someone physically attractive” And that alone is the key… What I Find attractive my friends do not… and vice versa.
EVERYONE finds someone ATTRACTIVE… my attractiveness is not universal. Neither is yours or my husbands. I appeal to men who prefer my type. YOU appeal to men who prefer YOUR type. My husband does not appeal to most folks but I find him cute/adorable/handsome and I WANT him… balding, pot belly, snaggle toothed and glasses… I found him cute from day one… and yes I admit his personality overshadowed the lack of dental work….etc.
THE BEST ADVICE I can give you…. BE TRUE TO YOURSELF and you will find a match. My son is looking for a girl now.. his type at 27: he likes long curly almost frizzy dark hair, glasses and a bit of extra weight on his girls…. That’s his type… so what HE finds attractive is not considered mainstream attractive.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (23 September 2013): Noone stayed with anybody just because of physical attraction. Initially yes, you have to pick somehow, and of course you are not going to pick someone who doesn't look attractive to you. Of. Course guys will tell you anything to get you in bed but in long term only physical beauty doesn't work.
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female
reader, pinktopaz +, writes (23 September 2013):
What do you think men should do? Go up to a woman and tell her, "Hey, I don't really find you attractive, but you look like you have a great personality. Let's go on a date" No! It's only natural that a man (or woman) is going to go after what they find attractive and if they like their personality then they'll keep them around, if not, then they'll let them go.
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male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (23 September 2013):
 I probably shouldn't even be commenting on this. It's just an anonymous rant. People need to rant and we can do them a service by giving them a place to do it.
I'm out of the game so to say. It has been decades since I was in the market for a partner. I find it cute that you think us guys can tell instantly whether we want a relationship with a particular woman. It is kind of like thinking that beautiful women don't fart. Hey we're human. The divorce courts are full of men who made a mistake. Now at my age I should know better, but if I was out looking, I'm thinking there would be a few false starts.
Are we all shallow and putting on a show? Not really, I don't know any happy people who are shallow. It's a dead end road.
FA
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (23 September 2013): I know you have already admitted that women probably have similar shortcomings. But have you looked very hard at that? I think comparing your complaints to men's complaints about women will help you understand and accept men's shortcomings better. To use some stereotypes: Women claim they want everything from "makes me laugh" to "isn't afraid to be emotional" to "be my best friend" etc. But ask any man what really happens when you go out and try to show women that. You get Friend-Zoned (or much worse) because Nice Guys finish last. Young women go for sexy arrogant jerks. Grown women shift towards sexy arrogant jerks with money. Many women strenuously deny this is true. And practically every man on the planet (both nice guys AND arrogant jerks) just laughs and rolls their eyes at the denials because the truth is so obvious from our experience. Its downright annoying listening to women in denial about themselves and pretending to be something better than they really are. Do you see how this relates to your complaints about men? Both sexes work hard pretending and believing their motivations are more mature and admirable than they really are. Men will not collectively just admit the extent of their faults for the same reasons that women won't collectively do the same.
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male
reader, GentleGiant  +, writes (23 September 2013):
I personally reject your analysis of guys.I have been in a successful monogamous relationship for three years. When i was first introduced to her about almost four years ago, i admit i was attracted to her physical beauty but shagging wasn't in my mind as my goal. We talked, we danced, we had a spark and i had a fantastic first date. But i was looking for more than a lust relationship or a physical attraction as you call it. She told me what she was looking for in a relationship. From this spark we had we developed and built chemistry. Sure we made out but we didnt have a sexual relationship until almost three months of dating. I remember doing a lot of fun things, roller blading,skating, water skying and snow boarding. Going out on dates with other couples and going to the beach and playing volleyball. Picnics in the park. Going to concerts together, seeing broad way shows together and with other couples. Going to professional sporting events. God i did more things with Kate than i did myself till that point in my life. Can you say that you have experienced even three of the items that kate and i have. Remember you have control over the situation if you send out signals that your the nicest and friendliest woman this side of Chicago then your going to get a lot of men hitting on you for a quickie and yes they will call you a saint if that will get you to jump in the sack for them. You have a choice to correct negative or unwanted approaches by these men. You should know that i hate to say this but a tight dress that gives a free show to all cannot in most cases land that man whom you may or may not want to develop a relationship with.. There is nothing wrong with being friendly and open but do not blame men when they see a talkative and friendly women barley dressed appropriately and ready for anything. When somebody sees that you appear ready to get jumped yes they are going do their best to get it done with you. Good-luck, move forward and re think what you have just said.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2013): OP, Why should anyone FEEL GUILT for attraction?
And If you think about what you are really saying, Attractive people are only wanted by 'shallow' people.
If I were in a cake shop I would plump for the most colourful, sticky, cream cake I could get my paws on,knowing it may make me sick, I would not plump for the current bun just because it tastes good.
Please Let people eat their OWN choice of cake without coating it in guilt (where non should exist)
yum! yum!
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2013): Seeing as we're generalizing here I will too.
It's easy OP. Same reason women like bad boys. The same reason women go back to their violent abuser over and over again and the same reason a rich man is far more attractive than a guy who's not rich. Or why they're more than willing to shat on by a guy they know is serial cheating player because he's amazingly hot. The same reason women find guys who are married or spoken for 10 times hotter than single guys.
Women value a guy who is rich and will tolerate a mountain of shit from him above a guy who is stable and has a nice personality. They also want someone else's man and justify that in their mind as some kind of right thing to do when it never is.
Why wouldn't we go for the hotter younger version when we know that women will do the same for a richer version of us if they get the chance? Why would we value women as more than their looks when they only care about our wallet? Why would we not go for the best looking woman and tolerate her shit when we know all women are capable of that and for one week of every month, and for a few years in middle age, pretty much every woman is a crazy bitch who treats us like shit and thinks it's okay?
Why would we care about personality when we're expected to pay on dates anyway? Might as well buy the best quality product in that case. I mean women want us to stop objectifying but they demand we buy them? Not exactly logical if you ask me.
It really works both ways OP.
My wife recently had to call time on her friendship with one of her best friends since childhood because she decided that my wealth and ripped physique made it worth trying it on with me at our wedding this summer. She wasn't even drunk, and I'm not even nearly hot nor do I have a great personality. Simply because I'm rich.
From a personal point of view I've always wanted a woman with both and have now married a woman who is loyal, hilarious, fun, intelligent (moreso than me) and also drop dead gorgeous to me. I didn't have to trade off anything because she has it all.
You know it's weird, I've always been able to get women and have been with a lot but I'm average looking so I always had to work at it.
Now all I have to do is mention my wealth in passing and all of a sudden their eyes light up and I'm the sexiest guy in the room. Same happens when I tell them I'm spoken for, and it also happens I let them squeeze my biceps or see my abs. In fact when I was younger I could be anonymous in bar for hours, then get up and play guitar and all of a sudden I have a lot of female attention.
Any of those things to do with my personality OP?
My point is, we're the same as women just different motivations. but if you can figure out why women are like that, then you know why men are too.
My view is it's simple. Takes time, months, even years to truly know someone's personality. So it's only natural to be motivated by the superficial at the start. Women love money and things, men love the woman as the thing.
So while a woman will put up with being beaten, bad sex, or disrespected as long as the guy can buy them iphones, cars and jewellery, men will do the same for a beautiful woman with lovely breasts and a great ass. I guess in both cases you just want shit you can show off to other people.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2013): Well... if experience is the basis for the question, then let me base my own answer in experience as well.I don't have low self-esteem by any means but I can say with almost complete confidence that NONE of my partners have been with me for my looks. I'm quite ordinary in that department (flat chest, average weight, still getting skin breakouts at 25 lol) and I don't use makeup or push-up bras to pretend otherwise. Guys who date me know exactly what they're getting looks-wise from day one, and I'm no model. My personality, on the other hand, gets rave reviews, because most guys aren't used to dating a girl who's down-to-earth, completely not materialistic, and values reason over emotion. I know I'm about to sound full of myself, but all the guys I've ended relationships with (I haven't been dumped since my first BF in high school) have gone on to date much hotter girls, but I'm the one they can't forget, and I know this because they've told me. Let me say again, there's DEFINITELY more to attraction than looks.My current boyfriend's ex literally had it all as far as looks go - I've seen photos and I'm totally secure in telling you she was a "dime". Blonde hair, blue eyes, huge boobs, perfect makeup and a great sense of style. From anecdotes he has related to me (he's too classy to complain about her directly) I can infer that she's also about as shallow as a pan of water and a bitch into the bargain. Considering that he was the one to break up with her, I'm one hundred percent positive he doesn't view me as a downgrade. Call me arrogant, but I don't view myself as a downgrade either ;)Are there guys out there who would pass me over based on looks? Absolutely. Millions. But I think you do yourself a great disservice in taking a handful of bad experiences and writing off all guys' motives as the same. You have MEN on this site telling you that's not all they go for. So I think what you need to sit back and look at is what kind of guys you are attracting and what kinds you choose to pass over. I don't want to make assumptions about you, but if you present yourself as high maintenance then I think you're likely to attract guys who are into that sort of thing. The problem is that that "type" IS all about aesthetics, so if you date a guy who chose you on that basis then you know right off the bat he puts more value on looks than anything else. If he has the chance to get with a woman who is physically more attractive, he may be more likely to act on it than a guy who needs more than physical attraction to want a relationship with someone.Be yourself, and you'll never have to wonder if a guy who is with you really wants to be with YOU. Best wishes :)
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2013): I know you have already admitted that women probably have similar shortcomings. But have you looked very hard at that? I think comparing your complaints to men's complaints about women will help you understand and accept men's shortcomings better. To use some stereotypes: Women claim they want everything from "makes me laugh" to "isn't afraid to be emotional" to "be my best friend" etc. But ask any man what really happens when you go out and try to show women that. You get Friend-Zoned (or much worse) because Nice Guys finish last. Young women go for sexy arrogant jerks. Grown women shift towards sexy arrogant jerks with money. Many women strenuously deny this is true. And practically every man on the planet (both nice guys AND arrogant jerks) just laughs and rolls their eyes at the denials because the truth is so obvious from our experience. Its downright annoying listening to women in denial about themselves and pretending to be something better than they really are. Do you see how this relates to your complaints about men? Both sexes work hard pretending and believing their motivations are more mature and admirable than they really are. Men will not collectively just admit the extent of their faults for the same reasons that women won't collectively do the same.
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (22 September 2013):
 Your response also brought up why men love bitches and treat nice girls like doormats. Bitches provide the spice and demand respect. Doormats are boring. Bitches spend more times bettering their looks while doormats are too busy worrying about the relationship, and looking sulky. Maybe men think that confidence is beautiful.
Men don't analyze much in relationships like women do. They base on their instincts and a lot of their decisions don't register in the conscious mind. You should say men leave relationships when they get boring and not exciting. A fresh face will always be better looking than the previous one.
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (22 September 2013):
 So are you saying that men will automatically trade up for a newer , flashier, better looking item if only they get the chance ?
I don't believe this . If it was as you say, no couple would ever make it to the ten years mark, heck, maybe to the 5 years mark. Because, let's face it, if you are a 35 y.o. woman, you are still young, fit and attractive of course... but , admittedly less so than someone who looks like you , but is only 25 . And since lots of people have younger coworkers, neighbours, social acquaintances,... then the first time your 35 y.o. bf goes to work- ( or to the PTA meeting ,or to the gym... then you are fucked. Plenty of younger, fitter, sexier coworkers etc. around. Luckily, that's not always, or even often, the case ( some times it is , of course ).
Men dump women for what they think are better looking physically ? ... men dump women they don't care about, or aren't much interested in, for what they think are better looking physically .
If during the relationship you have failed to make an impression , to leave your mark, by other means than your looks, - yes they will upgrade and why shouldn't they . If they feel the relationship / person is sort of bland, sort of OK but no great shakes, ... in other words if they feel there's not much to lose anyway, and there's the possibility to upgrade, - yes they probably will.
But that has still got to do more with personality than with looks.If you have happened to intrigue them, to capture their mind and senses,, to make yourself distinctive in their eyes,... it won't be a bigger pair of boobs all it takes for you to get your walking papers.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2013): In response to chigirl's answer, you are falsely assuming many things about the question because I don't think you understand what I am asking.
First of all, I specifically mentioned that women are just as guilty as men but that I was asking about men in my question. If you read the post more carefully, you will see.
Secondly, it is perfectly possible to know for a fact from dating experience with more than one person, and or from seeing from other people's experiences. It doesn't need to be an out of body/dual body experience or whatever weirdness you were talking about.
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (22 September 2013):
 What sort of experience do you have with this? The only experience I would think would be proper to conclude that all men are shallow is if you have two different bodies and you date the same men simultaneously and they put up with x amount of crap from one body and not the other. But since such an experiment is impossible and can only be done hypothetically, I would also have to conclude that your results are equally hypothetical.
I happen to disagree. People are shallow to a certain extent, but men are not any worse there than women. Yet physical attraction only matters on one level of a relationship, and when you reach deeper levels there are other factors that come into play. Just because attraction is important doesn't mean it is the only factor involved. But at the beginning of a relationship it does have more importance than other factors, yes.
Men could very well want BOTH, don't you agree? The great personality AND the looks? Just because they will only admit to wanting one thing (in your experience) doesn't mean they are lying about also wanting the other. They simply want both, they want a woman they are attracted to and they also want to get along with her (which requires the great personality match).
My guess is you've had a sour experience with a cocky male who wasn't honest with you, but don't take it out to mean all men are like this one guy you have your bad experience with.
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male
reader, CMMP +, writes (22 September 2013):
I don't think people are trying to claim that physical attraction is unimportant, it is, because as stated, that's the first thing you find out about someone.
When you first meet someone, if you're not at all attracted to them you probably won't give them a chance in the relationship department. But, if there's even a minor physical attraction and you love their personality, you might find them more attractive than a beautiful person with an ugly personality.
I know a girl who everyone says is beautiful (and if I think about it I know she is too), but because her personality sucks I fond her to be ugly. Seriously, I shiver when I think of her.
Over the course of my life I've met women who I'm not initially attracted to, but after I get to know them and they turn out to be great people, all of a sudden they start being attractive to me.
I've even known a few completely average looking women who's personalities were so great, their "manner" so elegant that everybody thought they were beautiful, and they were because beauty is a whole package.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2013): To answer Janniepeg's question, I was prompted to ask the question because many men do dump women for what they think are better looking physically. I have also seen and experienced that men upon meeting a woman have already decided whether he will pursue a relationship with the woman or just use her for sex. It doesn't matter how great her personality is, they have already classified her as, "to be used for sex only," in their minds. I know many people will think they know the reasons why and try to mention possible flaws of the woman in question, but this happens to women with great well-rounded personalities and who are even physically attractive in their own right. The man will put up with her flaws no matter how big they are. The woman can be a complete b!tch and treat him horribly, but he would still remain with her.I am not saying that men are all attracted to what we call conventional beautiful, but they do base what type of relationship they will seek mainly based on how attracted they are to a woman's looks. People should just admit and tell ones they are rejecting the truth by saying that they are not attracted to their physical appearances, instead of trying to lie and find fault with their personalities.
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reader, CindyCares +, writes (22 September 2013):
I am not a man, but, since I think basically it's the same for both genders, I'll try and answer : because mating is a selection process - you pick one person among several candidates and possibilities- and you've got to start the selection process somewhere. The first screening is at attraction level- simply because perception happens through the senses. In a room hosting 100 different women, or men, you'll NOTICE the 10, or 5, that strike you as most corresponding to your visual tastes. And if you are blind, you'll notice the 10 or 5 most appealing VOICES. Then, you 'll take it from there and you'll see if that physically appealing person also has got qualities / personality traits that you find appealing.
I do not agree on the fact that, as long as you look good, they 'll keep you around and put up with any kind of crap; this, at least in my experience, is untrue ( unless these men are some seriously, seriously insecure, self hating types ): I have seen too many young actresses/models and the like , getting swiftly the boot , same as their less physically blessed sisters and more, for being , or being perceived as, inadequate partners due to their personality flaws. Again, unless these men are really dumb , they won't put up for long with a flaw they can't stand ( be it being bitchy or needy or boring or bossy etc.etc.) JUST because the woman has a pretty face or body. But, standing the fact that your ideal long term partner has certain qualities you won't do without ( say, intelligence, sense of humour, loyalty or whatnot ) - you start seeking these qualities in people that also please to some degree your senses .
After all, when you don't know the people, it's as valid a selction method as another one . There's no guarantee that the plain looking person will have necessarily a better personality than the more attractive one. Unluckily, there are lots of people that are not very impressive visually AND also can't boast any particular redeeming feature in terms of mind and chracter. So, might as well starting from the eye-pleasing ones.
If you think about it, it's not that different than going shopping for a dress. Of course you want a dress that, say , is within your price range, is exactly your size, and is made of good fabric to last you a few seasons. Those are the non- negotiable, that's a given. But, with so many dresses to try on, obviously you start from those in the colours and shapes that you fancy the most.. Pink rather than yellow, short sleeved rather than long sleeved...
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (22 September 2013):
I think so too. They don't want you to think they are shallow. I am not sure if it's the huge majority. In public spaces I see a lot of mismatched couples so personality and stability win in the long haul. In the media this is what we learn to think. I do hear songs, even parody songs that talk about who cares about personality when you have a nice body.
The difference between men and women is that men rank looks no. 1, while for women it's no. 4. The ranking for personality will likely be reversed. Men are more visual. I don't think men have to feel guilty to admit they put looks in the priority. It is a given, and a well known fact. To say they are looking for personality means they actually want something more substantial than a hook up. Saying they care about personality doesn't cancel out the importance of looks.
To attract someone, in order to get a date, physical attraction is important. In long term relationships, personality AND looks are important.
I wonder what prompted this question. Is there a problem of you seeing guys date girls that don't look that good and then dump them for better looking ones?
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male
reader, CaringGuy  +, writes (22 September 2013):
Most men actually kook for both. I know I do. A man needs to find a woman physically attractive, but also mentally attractive. You could be the most beautiful woman in the world, but if you're boring, spiteful, ignorant, hard work or high maintenance, then good luck to you. Also, a woman becomes more physically the more attractive her personality is. If a man likes your personality, he will like the rest of you as well.
Naturally, there are exceptions to the rule. But I think it's unfair to say that people are shallow or guilt ridden. We're not.
It also depends on what the guy is looking for. If just sex, then he won't be bothered so much by personality. So it also pays for a woman to be careful of what type she likes. If you keep meeting men who only like looks, then perhaps you need to look at what you're attracted to.
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