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*ay potts
writes:hi, to all you women who say you want to meet a nice guy, but when you do, you treat him like sh.t, but a bad guy comes around you fall madly in love, you all say thats not true, but think about it,a nice guy you know what hes going to say, what hes going to do, where hes at, so the good guy is not a challenge,but the bad boy gets you to chase him, us good guys, poems, flowers, holding hands,being romantic is what women say they want, but why do women treat us like we don't have feelings, our hearts have real love, but love isn't enough.
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female
reader, Euphoric29  +, writes (29 March 2013):
Dear OP and agony aunts,
I always read those "nice guys are sooo poor" discussions because I feel I need to add something why we women like so-called bad guys. It's all a little stereotypical and b/w, but hey, maybe it helps us all to understand this.
Being nice is a way to live harmoniously around other people. But it was NEVER intended to be sexy. Nice is saying you're harmless. Nice is good for getting along, but neither will it bring you deep and enduring friendships nor real love. Nice is a practical way to get through life and show tolerance, not more and not less.
We women have been raised to be nice and we are masters at being nice while silently hating each other. We women know that "nice" is a lot about facade and avoiding confrontation. But the true friends we have and the people we really love are not ones that give us "niceness" all the time and make it the most easy. They are those who show us their true selves and expose themselves, leaving us to chose whether we like it or not.
You know, I'm pretty simple. If a guy talks to me and looks at me, I assume he either has an important professional reason or he finds me attractive. If he only talks business and doesn't make much eye contact, I know he's being professional. If he starts to flirt or act in a "bad guy" way, I know he finds me attractive.
If he's overly friendly and awkward, yes, I might assume as well, that he finds me attractive. But while I know that the bad guys want sex, I don't know what it is that the nice guy wants.. a date? marriage? friendship?sex? to kill me and feed me to the dogs?
He seems ashamed of his wish, so I assume it's something really bad. Yep.
That's the sad thing: A lot of well-educated guys seem to be secretly ashamed about their horny and sexual selves. They are eager to show that they're all about love and personality because they think that there's something dirty about sex. Or that women are all about romance and marriage.
I suppose that a lot of nice guys (and girls) have been raised too strictly and suffer from their religious or moral upbringing when it comes to the expression of the most natural desires and feelings. They have learned that they need to be nice in order to get most things they need (love, protection) and should never stand up to the ones they love.
And later in life, they feel it's still about being nice when it's actually about being authentic and decisive.
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male
reader, TrancedRhythmEar  +, writes (28 March 2013):
 Really? This again?My man.. Its simple women can't choose wat they are attracted to hence why they like bad boys. Often times a bad boys attitude is mistaken for confidence and thoughts what draws women in. Confidence, body language, tone of voice, are huge roles in attracting. Use flowers and small gifts to amplify attraction not create it. It wont work. Dont be available all the time. Women love independent men because it shows they're confident, have their priorities and yet makes women want a piece of their world. Do not compliment women. Rarely do it, in fact dont. It's ass kissing n seeking approval women hate it and it screams wussy and tool and desperate. Be a little cocky too but mix it with humor. It works man. They like that. Be into yourself a little but not so much where you're a douchebag. That's unattractive. You understand me? Hold the door but dont pick up her lipstick if it falls.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2013): A lot of younger women go for bad boys. A woman I know once told me it was because women like to think they can be the one to tame the beast or polish the rough diamond. They want to be the one that turns a bad boy into a nice guy and have the satisfaction and challenge of doing so.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (28 March 2013):
 I’m your age and I don’t think your statement is accurate.
The problem with “nice” guys is that they take it too far… there’s NICE and then there is DOORMAT
What most woman want:
A man who is well groomed (that means clean, neat, reasonably fashionable and appropriate clothing). A man who does not shave regularly is not attractive unless he actually has a beard (in which case it needs to be neatly groomed at all times) Hair not too long, not unkempt and NO HIDING of a bald spot… NO HIGHWATER pants, no white tube socks… BATHE regularly… not too much cologne, use anti-perspirant . GOOD teeth are important so if yours are bad, have them fixed.
DRESSING appropriately is key… do not invite me to a baseball game and show up wearing a suit to try to impress me as you don’t wear a suit to a baseball game… and it was weird. Weird enough so that while he was a nice guy… he was trying to hard to impress me… he got a second date… but there was no chemistry… he tried too hard.
A man who can discuss current events or other things that indicate a modicum of intelligence and thought process.
A man who can listen and not be critical but also is not a doormat.
A man who owns and USES a watch… be on time. Do not stand me up, if you are running late, let me know.
A man who has opinions but can listen to another person’s POV and respect it even if he does not agree with it.
A man who knows what he wants and goes after it. THIS is where you probably fall down. I like flowers as much as the next girl, but not all the time, not on a first date, and not as a way to be romantic.
A nice guy with a brain and a backbone is a challenge…
Ya know you say you do poems (I actually find that creepy in a guy) flowers (nice now and again but too often or too soon… pushing it) holding hands… being romantic… yep
My husband helps me on with my coat, he holds my chair, he helps me up and down steps and in and out of the car as needed…. He likes to cuddle and kiss… He’s one of the baddest boys I know. He also is very opinionated and speaks his mind clearly without compunction or worry about hurting my feelings.
A nice guy who is smart, funny, intelligent, independent, well groomed, articulate and independent is a treat. A nice guy with no self-eteem…. Loser.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2013): Guys who are too nice aren't the most successful in life. The rest of the world takes advantage of them. This is still important today and it was even more important in past centuries when life was more violent and skills with technology were not as critical.
All this adds up to mean that being too nice is not the ideal man to be a father/mate. Therefore women are not attracted to that. A man who errs a bit on the selfish and asshole side does better in life than a man who errs on the too nice side. So women are built to prefer the rougher edged men even if it means they get rough treatment sometimes. Its a small price to pay for avoiding a mate who isn't respected by other people.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2013): I echo what everyone else said but I also need to add that women don't want pussies, they have their own one.
It's perfectly acceptable to be romantic, sensitive, shy etc. that's not what I mean by pussies.
A pussy is a guy that lets himself get treated like shit, gives far too much of himself without getting anything in return.
That's not a nice guy, that's a pussy. OP women need to work to impress us too. And they actually need that from us. If you bend over backwards to please them without making them work to impress you too they get bored. You become their servant when they may want a guy who knows how to be a master in some ways.
OP a pussy is a pushover and if you're wondering why women don't want that it's because they want a guy with a mind of his own, knows how to get what he wants, treats them well but can say no to people. How can a woman feel safe with a guy who is a pushover?
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male
reader, Myau  +, writes (28 March 2013):
 WOW!!!
This is a really great discussion. It really is the best thing about DearCupid that we can here the point of views of guys and girls.
Several posts have made me rethink my original thoughts on this topic.
But to answer you: Its a myth. You are attracted to the wrong women. You need to first be honest with who you are and what you want. And actually make the effort to meet those girls instead of what I'm guessing you have been doing: Meeting the wrong ones and hoping they will change.
Its never too late. And yes it does mean coming out of your comfort zone.
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (28 March 2013):
 This is a lame trite generalization and if you go around spouting off this kind of platitudes I am not surprised that you did not have lots of luck with the ladies no matter how nice you are.
Besides, a nice guy whom you always can predict what he's going to say or do is not a nice guy per se, because of his predictability- he is a boring guy.
One can be nice ( having morals, values, manners etc. ) AND interesting at the same time.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2013): Hi OP I used to feel exactly the same way as you. Although I agree with the responders who say this is generalizing all women, I have found it very difficult over the years as I was the nice guy. let me tell you my story....People often used to say to me "Your such a nice guy you must have no problems getting girlfriends"...actually I did! I was always the cheesy nice guy and Mr Polite. Women either wanted to mother me, treat me like a younger brother or thought I was gay or a mummies boy. I was the guy women would say "Aw bless!" about and once that's how a woman sees a man its curtain for any kind of relationship. Meantime it was soul destroying seeing pretty, lovely girls I fancied turning up at social events with "bad boy" boyfriends who were the opposite of me: aggressive, confrontational, arrogant. I remember a lovely girl I used to know who was intelligent, attractive, came from a good background and yet had a boyfriend who looked and acted like wayne rooney. He couldn't string a sentence together in public without using the C word or threatening someone...I tried internet dating and its no exaggeration to say that most of the younger women had put on their profile "my top three turn-on's are: bad boys, shaven heads and a manly body" or "im looking for a Grant Mitchell type with a bad ass body". It was very frustrating.my brother is the opposite of me: a user, a liar and a game player and he is arrogant, aggressive, in trouble with the police...yet the worse he got the more women flocked to him. Every time he hurts, humiliates, lies, cheats or uses a woman they ring him half an hour later saying "im so sorry! im not good enough for you! Its my fault you cheated on me. I deserve it." Whereas I only had to say one word out of place and the relationship was over. no second chance or anything.However I realized around the age of 30 that although, yes, here in the UK at least a lot of women are attracted to bad boys and chavs (people in the US might be reading that and thinking "A WHAT?") there are nice girls wanting nice guys too. BUT as someone else as pointed out they don't want a push over. It took me a long time to realize you can be masculine without being a bad boy, you can stand up for yourself without being "not nice" and you can be a man without the biceps and attitude. Yes a lot of women these days do want the "glamour" and "excitement" of a bad boy plus younger women often go through a phase of being quite rebellious in that respect - a nice girl being "bad" for a change but it shouldn't stop you finding someone. If your too nice people can mistake that for insincerity and view you with suspicion. Sadly I've seen situations where arrogant, cocky, overly aggressive men have approached a pleasant, nice woman with all the "alright babes!" (while winking at their fellow lad friends) and the woman has responded positively, only to see a nice guy come and talk politely and shyly to her and been given a cold, suspicious response. When I was ultra nice I found out that whenever a new female member of staff started in the office some of the other women would say "watch that Mark, stay well clear" which I found so upsetting. Sadly people had mistook my nicey nicey personal for something different. I remember a team building exercise at work where we had to massage the shoulders of the person sat next to us. An arrogant cocky guy who clearly was trying to take on the personal of alpha male and was boasting about winning a fight the night before said to the girl next to me "Show me yer shoulders babes and i'll give you a sign of things to come!" and she giggled and seemed to enjoy this guy drooling and stroking her shoulders while grinning cockily at the bloke opposite as if he was clever. I, as the nice guy with manners said "excuse me, may I?" and offered to do the same thing (as we had been instructed) and she gave me a cold, scowling look and said "NO!". Since then i've changed my attitude. Ive "manned up" a lot more. I'm not aggressive, don't wear hoodies, don't swear or fight and im still seen as a nice guy...but the difference is that I don't fawn over women to show how nice I am anymore. I also toned down the cheesy nicenes. I used to go out of my way to show i was different from those bad boy types. Doing that is counter productive like droning on and on at a job interview as to how suitable you are for the job. I'm more willing to say no to a woman in a relationship or stand up to her in certain situations rather than give in to appear nice. I understand how you feel OP as I have been there and felt the same way. I fully understand how that can be seen as sexist, over generalization and so and I do agree with that - not all women are into bad boys and not every woman treats a nice guy like shit, far from it. But I can understand WHY you would feel that way. Do you attract girls with troubles and issues? I used to. Girls with eating disorders, histories of abuse, alcoholic parents, you name it. Because I was basically like a sensitive gay guy but straight, women felt safe emotionally and that I understood. Women with issues, insecurities and so on flocked to me for understanding and a feeling they didn't get with the more manly men who "didn't do feelings". But because of their issues and low self worth they were self destructive to both themselves and those who cared about them. Took me a long time to work that one out. I know from personal experience that being a good guy isn't always the best way to be (for those of you into F1 just ask mark webber!) but its also about the way you let yourself be treated. I agree that wimpy is not the way to be but that doesn't mean you have to be an ^^^ole ;-)
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reader, wiseoldman  +, writes (28 March 2013):
More women than would care to admit it need to have a good howling sobfest every so often to blow out their carburetor jets and relax themselves, and will pick an argument if necessary to get it. Nice guys are too conciliatory thus denying them the excuse. Then they get even more wrought up. This type of female behaviour falls under the same category as feeling virtuous for not ordering dessert in a restaurant then eating over half of yours. It's just something they do so don't question it. Know when to give them the required argument- knowing when and when not to do this is vital and the wisdom to tell the difference only comes from painful experience... and by the way , NEVER call her fat. Then apologise humbly, because it was all your fault, especially when it wasn't, and provide cuddles afterwards, plus 3/4 of your dessert. You're now good for another month.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2013): Fatherly Advice and Iamheretohelpyou are absolutely correct. Women like romantic and exciting guys, not predictable ones, and certainly not overly soppy ones. But also not risky or dangerous ones. We like romantic guys that are fun!
Chances are, women don't reject you because you're "nice" or "romantic." It's probably something else. No offense OP, but it looks like a 13-year-old wrote your post. It really makes me question your poems!
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reader, CMMP +, writes (28 March 2013):
I consider myself a nice guy and it's never hurt me with women, so I think what you're saying isn't always true.
HOWEVER, one thing women don't like is a pushover. Be a man, take control (to some extent), be confident, etc.
I think most women love nice guys, they just don't like "wimpy" guys.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2013): How is your hygeine?Have you considered that you come across as desperate, clingy, and obsessed instead of nice, romantic and intelligent?How are your intimacy skills?No, really...how are your intimacy skills?And don't kid yourself...everyone needs more than love. You just need to find someone tolerable who tolerates your quirks in turn. The marriages that last a lifetime, those couples that have a deep spiritual bond, have more than just love for one another. If you still looking for love, I urge you to see a counselor who specializes in intimacy issues, communication, and relationships. At this point in your life, you need serious help to give you the best chance at happiness.
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female
reader, llifton +, writes (28 March 2013):
 i don't think this is a gender/sex issue so much as it is a human issue. i have plenty of straight friends whom all say the same exact thing about the opposite sex. women complain about men treating them poorly when they make themselves available, and men complain about women treating them poorly when they are available. now from the gay standpoint, i've had other women do this to me, also, when i treated them extremely well. and i've had gay male friends say the same thing.
isn't it true that the harder we have to work for something, the more we appreciate it? i suppose this applies to human interpersonal relationships, as well. if we have to put a lot of effort into the relationship, we value it more.
just don't do all those things you mentioned immediately, right off the bat. wait a little while and play it cool for a handful of months. get to know each other. work your way up to those very intimate/personal moments. that way, she appreciates it when they happen.
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male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (28 March 2013):
 I'm here to help you has answered the question perfectly. It's not that women want dangerous men. What they want is exciting men. A sense of mystery is important to many women. The trick is to be interesting without being risky.
FA
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female
reader, MsSadie +, writes (28 March 2013):
 This is the equivalent of if I asked you why men only like women who are loose, so to speak. That wouldn't be a very fair generalization, now is it?
Have you ever considered that maybe you need to stop chasing after the kinds of women who like bad boys? My guess is that you don't notice the girls who would love and cherish you. Maybe you don't find them attractive or maybe your own standards need some raising.
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female
reader, ThinkingOverdrive +, writes (28 March 2013):
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3VXXXX9iVPI
Just because you're a nice guy doesn't necessarily mean you have everything that women should want; just like certain things about women will either attract you or not. You most likely have a type and you will be someone's type - you just have to find those people.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (28 March 2013):
 Hey, I'm with a nice guy, the flowers, holding hands, being romantic (not all the time, but enough) is what I have.
This is a sweeping generalization question and it's basically a rant against the women who have rejected you for so many years, if you are 51-59.
Have you tried a matchmaking service which could help you overcome the problem of being too romantic too soon and too fast which results in you appearing clingy and needy?
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