A
female
age
,
*o_Very_Confused
writes:This is not a LOVE relationship issue but it is a relationship issue.I normally am the one to give advice but this is something I am willing to hear all sides on.Background:My dad is nearly 81 and he is dying. He has non-treatable metastasized melanoma of the liver, diabetes that is causing his kidneys to work only at 30% and severe anemia requiring 2 whole blood transfusions each week as well as Procrit injections to help him make blood.At this point he has had second opinions and is working closely with multiple medical staff and doctors to try to gain some quality of life. He has his first great grandchild due in March and he wants to be here for that.My mother died 20 years ago on 10/23 of cancer. Also inoperable and non-responsive to medications. She opted not to have experimental drugs and we supported her. My father and I held her hand as she took her last breath at hospice. My father devoted his entire life (as was his choice) to caring for my mother from the minute we knew she was sick until the very end.This is how my family feels we should behave.Shortly after my mother's death my father was introduced to a woman who he has been with since their first meeting. They have lived together nearly 20 years. About 15 years ago at her urging my father purchased a villa on a golf course that SHE wanted him to have. He has paid it off and set up his will so that when he dies she will be allowed to live int he house and his estate (ie my brother who has power of attorney) will pay all the bills. When she dies (she is 81 also so it won't be too long) The house is to be sold and the money goes back to my father's estate. My dad called me on September 8th and said come down now (it's a 2.5 hour flight from my local airport to one that is local to him) I went down on the 9th and stayed till the 16th. I met my brother at the airport and we handed off the care and feeding of dad.I go back on October 6th. THE ISSUE:my dad was insanely depressed and his "wife" (they are not married legally and there is no common law marriage) is primarily the cause. It's not really HER fault. She is selfish and inconsiderate and a social snob.He said to me "I knew she was selfish but I did not see how bad it was I was so blind" and we are trying to make him feel better about this. He is beating himself up over his choice of a woman who can't be bothered to help him.She has bad mouthed his children to their friends according to my dad saying we were useless and not willing to come down but the truth was we were told by our father not to come. I told her that it's as much her fault. She could have picked up the phone and said "please come down now" instead of "you need to speak to your father he's impossible"Maybe I'm being over protective but these are things that I see:He needed to go to get something notarized. He can use a walker to get to the car after he showers and shaves himself. (yes the man still able to care for himself but he is too weak to drive and sometimes needs help getting up out of the car or off the couch)I put him in the car and drove him 2 blocks to their club where the notary came out to the car and signed the papers for him and then took them to mail them.Then I drove him in his car to the bank and made a deposit at the drive thru for him. He didn't even need to go. WHY did I have to do this? because his "wife" refused to do it. When we returned less than half an hour after we left she said "that was quick"I told her "yeah helping out doesn't really take too long"She wants someone to come sit with him so she can go play bingo every night. She informed me it was MANDATORY.she complained about how quiet he was when we went out to dinner... that his not speaking is "socially awkward"I want her to see that I accept that she is incapable of caring for my dad the way he expected but that her inability to choose to care for him over her own needs (having her car washed, playing bingo and going clothes shopping) is what is depressing my dad.I have explained to my dad that it's her limitations as a person and that WE all saw what and who she was but she made him happy so we accepted her. I have promised to come down and visit him every month now and if I have to get permission to work from his home remotely in the end.We have put in place an attendant (that he really does NOT need at t his point) to make sure that he has someone who (even if paid) cares for him properly instead of yelling at him all the time. I want to try to find a peace for these two as they are not going to part after 20 years and dad could rally and be around for a year or more. I can't keep being the peace maker between them.WHAT can I say to her to get her to understand that her actions and feelings are detrimental to the man she professes to love?
View related questions:
depressed, drugs, money Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (24 September 2015):
 It's good that he is doing better! Maybe Agatha is stepping it up (even with being sick?) or maybe your Dad have some extra strength in him because of his kids.
Go Dad!
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (24 September 2015):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the question Tisha the irony is my mom died 20 years ago from lung cancer and she smoked. Dad quit when I was a kid.
They have NEVER permitted smoking in the house... she has always gone outside so that's good.
I am worried that his immune system is compromised and he will catch her cold.
I heard he got an pedal exerciser for the floor yesterday that I had ordered for him and he was doing it. Seems he is getting stronger and feeling much better.
I go back on the 6th and will let you all know how it goes then. I am feeling much better thanks all.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (23 September 2015): I realized you said granbaby but i hoped you would realize that its not really your stress..i am quitting this site now as friendly as you all are ..because it gets me down but thanks for the journey so far and happy if i can get a weary soul to smile sometimes.x
...............................
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (23 September 2015):
 That Karma bus is a busy busy vehicle, isn't it? Poor Agatha. And she smokes? Eek, I hope no longer in their home. Dad needs all the oxygen he can get, and no toxins or extra carcinogens, thank you very much. Her immune system must be taking such a beating. As is yours, dear aunt SVC. So nurture yourself!
And you are welcome for the PM. I had a lot to say and didn't want to bore the masses, lol. I hope you are feeling like you have a little better of a handle on stuff and I'm here if you want to vent.
This is such a tough time for any family. Hang in there.
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (23 September 2015):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you all so much... when you are the one in the middle of it, it's hard to see what you can clearly see for others.
I appreciate the PMs too!
to the last poster. I HOPE I'm not pregnant. I'm 55... this is my first grandbaby on the way my dad's first great grandchild as it's my baby who is expecting (well his wife is)
I spoke with Dad yesterday and he sounded much better. I think that having me down for a week and my brother for a few days helped. I Had put some caregiving in place for them and that seemed to relive a lot of pressure.
"Agatha" (I love that Tisha and will always use it now) has been run over by the Karma bus and has a terrible horrible cold probably picked up at Bingo last Tuesday. I wish I didn't see the humor in it as even a cold at 81 when you smoke (as she does) is not great.
I will be going down again monthly from now on as getting to his place from mine even though we are over 1000 miles apart.
My DH (bless him) has said "move down there I'll make do" but that's tabled till later. I May do it. I did it for my mom.
I want to thank you all again... just knowing I have a place to get advice outside of my head is a comfort. I've been here for a few years and I consider many of you friends.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (23 September 2015): I think you need to start adding up the positives.You are young enough to get pregnant and you have (clever you and congratulations and plenty of love all round.) Hubby may need spinal op but hes been functioning well enough to get you pregnant,so hopefully he can continue that kind of action.What is the problem...has he had a whiplash injury? Cervical is the neck as far as i know so i should imagine hubby has been beset with headaches.Chiropractors and Osteopaths can adjust this stuff without doing any damage and hubby will walk away feeling better after each treatment but better you drive him to and fro as he might feel absurdly tired with relief.Yep the neck should fit together like pieces of lego and the correct nudge her and there can do a lot unless the bones themselves are crushed but hubby would be in hospital right now and you didnt mention that being the case.Finally ,yipeee your a trust fund baby technically and can afford the treatment technically.On the note of your dad and his current missus id just let them potter on a bit further, they may be more emotionally sorted than you think.And concentrate on your family and ditch the worry about dad as he has every reason to stick it out a bit more on this earth as long as he can manage.Can you get him or them to fly up to see you or is dad restricted to his bedroom or sitting room only?
...............................
A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (22 September 2015):
Man, when it rains it pours!
I agree with C. Grant (as usual) that I would focus on what YOU (and your brother) can do to make his days/months/ hopefully longer as good as possible.
All I can say is, I get being angry at her for being "useless" in this situation, some people though aren't equipped emotionally to be a caretaker.
It might also be an idea to figure out little things she can do to help out - make her feel like she IS contributing so it's not ending up HER versus HIS KIDS - she might not be able to deal with the majority of care, but there will be things SHE can do, that she hasn't thought of. I think she might be a little paralyzed emotionally right now. Been there, done that. She might need some help to shake that off. You know her better than any of us. Talk to your brother and maybe figure out some "tasks" to make her feel like she is helping (and in your dad's eyes - THAT will help him).
You can't fix everything, so focus on what YOU feel/think is important.
...............................
A
male
reader, C. Grant  +, writes (22 September 2015):
 SVC I'm so sorry you're in this situation. My Dad only lasted four months from the time he was diagnosed, which was quite wrenching enough even with a supportive partner.
Reading the other replies, well, I'm not worthy -- I'm in awe.
What I can suggest is to reinforce what you're already thinking. At best you can persuade her to contribute less to his depression. In the end she's not a factor you can control. You can control what *you* do and say. So, as you're already doing, focus on cheering him up.
You and I are of a similar age, so I doubt you need the following advice. I could have used it when my Dad died (I was only 32 then): use the time you have with him to ensure you're left with no regrets. Say what needs to be said, reminisce, hug, whatever. While I miss my parents, I feel confident that I didn't leave unfinished business with them.
My thoughts are with you in this difficult time.
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (22 September 2015):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOH thanks all.
Let me be clear.. the expenses after are for routine maintenance and taxes only.. her life style is to be funded by her first husband and his lovely large alimony check.
I hate to say this but I technically am a trust fund baby. MONEY is NOT THE issue. LOVE and CARE and support are.
Honeypie is right.. she's scared. I know this. I held her while she cried. She loves my dad and he loves her.
I'm between a rock and a hard place.
I have a sick dad
I have a grandbaby on the way
and hubby just called.. he may need spinal surgery in the cervical region.
I'm so stressed I'm afraid I will make it worse when I see her.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2015): maybe its dad you should talk to first and discuss the fact that he might want to limit what you would call reasonable expenses to a certain maximum as she might be the sort who believes you spend like crazy as a way of getting over grief.To be honest most people do and maybe your dad was flashing the cash after your mother passed away to compensate by trying to cheer himself up.Maybe he lavished gifts on her to the point she thought he was loaded. A good conversation opener to dad is "what do you think is important in life?" Then get him to be clear further on what would be important spending for her.Would she be allowed a complete refurbishment of the golf house with a jacuzzi in the garden if she wanted that?Would she be allowed a memorial archway with 360° concrete bench..?Parties three or four times a week.At her age she might just settle for clean tea clothes and towels but what if she wanted a maid,or a maid,a cook, a butler and a gardener..it could be interesting to sound her out on life after your dad.How does she expect to survive.It might be less stressful all round if dad just fixes on a weekly or monthly allowance to be given or a flat rate one off sum.Now is the time to clear up and sort out what he feels are his obligations to her and how he expects you to associate with or monitor her and her spending.
...............................
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (22 September 2015):
Another thing you could try to evoke is the fear of being perceived as being incompetent. For example, that thing about not being able to drive him to the bank or to the notary will make her look like she's losing it, that her mental competence perhaps is slipping, frankly that she might appear to be getting "gaga"to friends.
There is an elderly aunt in my family, who is fiercely independent. As a result, sometimes she declines help in a way that makes it more complicated and more taxing on her caregivers. The thing I have observed in her is that she's terrified of being perceived as having lost her marbles.
So in a way it's manipulative, to use her fears and her snobbery as tools, but your dad needs and deserves the help.
Obviously at this point in time, don't wait for her to call you, or that your dad will be honest about his need for help. Just assume that your presence is welcomed and needed. My dad refused help time and time again, even as it became more apparent to us and the social workers we were working with that he was unable to properly care for himself ormy mother.
So assume that your presence is needed, do your best to preserve your dad's independence and sense of dignity, and that may include ensuring that Agatha also has a sense of integrity and dignity that is serving both of them properly.
In the long run, I think everyone will be happier with that situation .
...............................
A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (22 September 2015):
Aww, that is quite a hard thing to deal with. And it's even harder for your dad as he had hoped he would have in her a partner through thick and thin, but only got himself a "goodtime girl". (as my grandfather called them).
If she was my "sort of stepmother" I'd resent the fire out of her too.
I think this is how she deal with the stress of his illness, she is fearing what will become of HER when he is gone, she wants things to stay as they are (thus she tries to pretend that they are by doing things bingo,shopping etc). She is in denial. And I think part she is mad at your dad for getting sick, because she isn't ready for him to go.
She is a selfish lady, and one who deals with illness quite callously, maybe not intentionally, but still callously.
She doesn't want to hear that she is making things worse. I think that is why she is blaming his kids (you).
MAYBE finding a really good caregiver who comes in daily to help with going to the bank, play cards, talk, etc is the best way to go - the more the "wife" is out of the house the better for your dad. I know he is disappointed in her, and in HIS choice in woman, but I'd focus my energy on making HIM feel good, not trying to explain how hurtful she is to her. I don't think she is willing to listen to it. So I would minimize your dad's exposure to her.
I'm not sure she would take to heart anything said to her. Not if she perceive it as criticism. So maybe it's about HOW you approach her, not so much what you want to say.
*hugs* I'm sorry your dad and your family are going through all this.
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (22 September 2015):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOH Tisha thank you so much... GOOD idea... PERFECT actually.
Karma is funny. I just called them. Daddy sounds pretty good today. "Agatha" (I love that) has a cold and sounds horrible.
I love the whole "appeal to her social side" aspect of it. I NEVER thought of it that way.
Next time I am down she will be gone so I can feel "their" friends out a bit and see how this suggestion will play out.
I have heard of caring bridge. I do not think WE as a family are ready to go that far yet. deep sigh.
...............................
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (22 September 2015):
I'm sorry to hear about your dad, SVC. I went through the illness and loss of my Dad just 10 months ago. There is nothing so painful as feeling helpless.
I wonder if she's so deep in denial or so scared that she can't leave her comfort zone, even to help him. If there's a social worker involved. I'd speak to him or her and discuss the very odd rigidity that --we'll call her Agatha if that's ok?--Agatha is displaying in the way she's handling his final illness.
The one thing you can do with her snobbery and concern for appearances is to figure out how to point out that her behavior and treatment of your father will make her look bad in front of her friends. That she will lose face if she shows up at her BINGO club every night. That her friends will start to think she's uncaring and selfish for not spending more time with him before he passes. Lay it on thick. Paint the word pictures that depict his she'll be perceived by her peers. That her social standing will be damaged beyond repair. Whispers behind her back, eyes judging her and seeing her lack of compassion.
She may be feeling so overwhelmed that her instinct is to pretend everything is normal.
At her age, she's not suddenly going to develop empathy as you well know. So take those character flaws and use them as tools to extract some of the behavior that will help calm your dad's last days.
Speak to a hospice counselor, you can start interviewing them now to help find the best one when the time comes. They see all sorts of freaky acting out and may well have great suggestions for how you approach this.
I wouldn't zoom in and say, "Jeepers, your friends must think you're a cold bitch!" I'd start by asking her how bingo went last night. Then ask about her friends. Then ease into asking what they think about his illness and how she's taking it. Make comments like, "They must be a very demanding group, to expect your mandatory attendance when your love is so ill. Is anyone not surprised that you might be wanting to spend what little time he has with him?" Rhetorical, of course. Don't wait for her to answer.
Ask about what she thinks would help him through this. Leading questions. "Agatha, it seems you were too stressed by the situation to manage a half hour of driving him around. Do you think your bingo friends would be able to help you with that?" Thus tying in the judgment and pointing out that PEOPLE WILL NOTICE. And may already have noticed.
Are you familiar with Caring Bridge? Or lotsahelpinghands? These are sites that can organize friends and family's desires to help with the needs of the person who is ill. I can post links but googling them will produce the websites.
How's that for a start?
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (22 September 2015):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI don't expect her to change. I know she can't.
I don't care about her feelings. Clearly she doesn't care about mine, my brothers or my children.
The will already stipulates she gets the house till her death. AND WE COVER THE EXPENSES. NOTHING will change that.
I just want her to UNDERSTAND why he's so depressed. she can't even SEE that it's her behavior that's hurting him.
I know where he stood with my mom and how he felt about her.
We have NEVER not discussed my mother. IT was always clear to the second partner that she was a poor substitute and stand in for the love of his life. She got sloppy seconds and did not care as long as she had a rich tall handsome man on her arm to give her diamonds and buy her things and take her places. Now that he can't she can't be bothered with him. IT hurts him. I want HER not to HURT him emotionally any more than she already has.
I am going to talk to her. I just want to know how to approach this.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2015): she is 81 and your dads second life partner so little you do is going to change her ways .You could try the adverse arguement and say "dad stipulated in his will that you have to provide 40 hrs care a week or he is selling off the golf course house as part of the estate after he's gone."Its wicked isnt it?In fact its scandalous and it may give you and your brother a laugh but most likely it will cause a lot of pain all round.Older people get into habits of saying what they feel to whomsoever theyre with at the time without thinking of the consequences..so while your dad is quietly telling you that you are wonderful and his partner is selfish ,he may be saying it because thats what he expects to hear.Secretly he may be saying to his partner "you have your hair done if it makes you feel good" and "id never get to where i am today without you here..dont let me hold you back and make sure you keep the car clean..its our standard isnt it darling!"So on the basis that you are only there part time and she is there full time as his second life partner then i wouldnt interfere.Maybe words of love and comfort pass between them when they are alone.If you are desparetly concerned that shes a nasty piece of work you could install hidden cameras but i think a carer is adequate and essential.I think dad will hold on as long as he has the will to see the great grandchild but he knows in his heart that he is desparetly ill and his days are numbered so he has decided to try to please everyone by saying confidences they want to hear.I should imagine he is thinking more of your mother these days and its his way of letting you know how highly he held her in his esteem.Why not some clandestine conversations about how wonderful your mum was but you could e pect his big sad eyes to cry as he fondly reminisces so if that is upsetting for you it is better to keep on bitching as it keeps daily life ticking on and dad clearly has his own way of saying things.
...............................
|
