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female
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anonymous
writes: Is it naive to trust a b/f at a bachelor party? I am jealous and insecure about this and my b/f thinks i am being childish and immature. He says the strippers are not there to have sex with everyone in the place. I feel like what goes on at these parties, stays at these parties and i would really never know if lines were crossed such as lap dances during these parties that don't occur often. And just b/c they dont occur often--doesnt mean i can say well--its not like he goes all the time so its ok if he gets one at this party. He is saying he can't believe i am giving him a hard time about attending one. I told him how i felt--like its a free pass to look at this hot naked girl and basically just thinks i am wrong and if there is one he interested in going to--he will go. He believes it was a ridiculous thing to argue about and even said his mother and sister agree when they overheard the argument(sorry to say this but its biast b/c my family would agree with me as well and he also comes from a sexist family in my opinion anyway so of course they would think its ok)
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (21 March 2008): I agree with badrit about loosening up, but it's hard when you know your man wants to see another woman naked. Trust me....I have not problem with porn, playboy, etc, but I do have problem with some other woman shoving her breasts and privates in my face. I know he is coming home to me that night, but where has his body parts been or been exposed to. In addition, is he having sex with me when he comes home or thinking about the naked girl he saw.......In my opinion it's disrespectful.
A
female
reader, Serene Katy +, writes (15 August 2006):
 If anonymous didn't want advice, laced with morals or otherwise, she probably wouldn't have come on to the site Wild Thaing. Just wondering which group you fit into, my guess is 1.
There is a general denigration of females in 'civilised countries'. Even to the point that we have female chauvanists. What about respect for women? For the women on the street, the girlfriends/mothers/wives/daughters you men are supposed to love and cherish? Can men only look on them as female livestock? That lady's opinions are valid, there is no place for these leecherous establishments in fit society. There's always a stag night, or an excuse, it's never what it really is, depravity.
It seems to me that the anonymous lady, required backup as she wasn't listening to her internal code of ethics because she was subjected to the usual denial. It's not LIKE that. It's not his problem he'd like to go off to a sleazy kip, it's yours for expecting more from him, definitely. Believe me, your feelings are normally a pretty good guide to what's going on, what you can accept and can't from a man. You're not doing cartwheels at this, which is probably the thin end of the wedge.
I don't think you are insecure and I don't think you trust him.
Katy
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (14 August 2006): Morals and standards influence us in who we are and how we govern ourselves. They shape and model us and our lives. We are affected by others decisions day by day.
In this case she has expressed her concerns and told her BF that his decision hurts her; just because you can not understand why it hurts her to no end doesn't mean he is doing what is right by their relationship.
I have a book titled "Pornified~How pornography is transforming our lives, our relationships, and our families" by Pamela Paul.
In it are accounts of the women and men that are effected by their partner's growing obession with porn.
In it are women who share similar stories of their partners turning to other women...desiring them...oogling them and the effects that these actions had on them.
They begin to believe when their partners tell them that they are over reacting, that they are being inconsiderate, that they are being manipulative and controlling (which is emotional abuse and there own form of control) and that they are being immature and childish.
In this book it tells of the decline of trust, love, intamacy as men begin to expect the women they love to measure up to women of porn.
One's masculinity shouldn't be ensured by pornography and strippers.
I hear what you are saying and it is the similar cry of countless others who have partners who "dabble" in porn.
"Psychariatristy Jennifer Shneider's study of ninety one women and three me, all of whom had spouses or partners seriously involved in cybersex, found that discovering a partner's online sexual activity results in feelings of hurt, betrayal, rejection, abandonment, devastation, loneliness, shame, isolation, humiliation, jealousy, and anger. More than one in five of those surveyed had separated or divorce as a result of their spouse's cybersex addiction. Half reported their spouses were no longer sexually interested in them, and one-third said they were no longer interested in sex with their parnter."~ from page 232-233 paragraphs two.
This isn't irrational of you, this isn't you being childish. His ignorance of your feelings are making you become insecure.
I hope you can work this out. I still suggest counseling to help both of you sort out your wants and needs and what you both expect in a life partner.
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A
male
reader, Wild Thaing  +, writes (13 August 2006):
 Anon, your boyfriend's views on you going to a stagette are irrelevant! This is about you, not him.
So far the responses fall into three general categories:
1) Those who are using your question as a soapbox to broadcast their views on morality. My question: Exactly how does someone else's moral standard help you to determine your choices?
2) Those who expand on what you have already acknowledged - you are insecure and don't trust him to behave himself.
3) Those who mix 1 and 2.
Which of these categories of advice guides you best? None, if you are unwilling to listen. And so far you have not given any feedback to indicate that our efforts are not being wasted.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 August 2006): my b/f said he would have no problem if he knew i was going for a bachelorette party
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (12 August 2006): wow - if this guy is going to go see naked girls when he knows it will make you upset, then he is an asshole. (does it really matter what he would be doing as long as it upset you this much?) i know that regarless of what i was planning to do that if it upset my husband as much as you're upset, then i wouldn't carry on with my plans. why would your b/f intentionally hurt you? if he's this adamant about going to see some naked girls, then what the hell is he like with other stuff? and better yet, what's in store for the future if he is stepping all over your feelings only after 1 1/2 years?
anyway, if he really does go out to see some naked girls with his friends (since that's what it seems he HAS to do) then why don't you invite some of your friends over for a party and have some male strippers come over? that won't solve the problem, but i don't think your boyfriend would be too pleased and maybe it would help get the message across and make him feel a bit of what you're going through.
(ps - i don't care about porn, hookers, etc as entertainment for *singles*, but i do think it's strange when people in committed relationships feel they need to include these things in their lives. i know i'd be livid if my husband told me he was going to see some naked girl bounce around inches away from him. for what? why would he need to go/see that?)
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A
female
reader, Serene Katy +, writes (12 August 2006):
The fact that he wants to go to such a place at all says alot about his morals, my friend.
He won't be wearing blinkers at the party, he will be a patron to a place where women are just pieces of meat. I think a gal in a monogamous relationship, expecting exclusivity in his attractions has a right to expect more from him.
As Malyce says: " you are his woman and he would die at the suggestion of having some of his mates over for dinner and then all of a sudden you hop up on the table and start gyrating and touching your body and tossing your head and then removing your clothing. Can we say HYPOCRITE?"
It probably is a trust issue also, as his desire to attend these sleazy places is probably ringing alarm bells in the original poster. There is a standard of decent behaviour that determines a Gentleman.
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A
male
reader, Polyfuse +, writes (12 August 2006):
Your relationship should be built on trust. Not allowing him to go and giving him a hard time is only going to make him resent you. And if he does go and something does happen, you will eventually find out, then youll know you couldnt trust him and its better to find that out now rather that later
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (12 August 2006): i don't understand what the fuss is all about??? Why is it such a big deal to let the guy have some fun. I agree completely with wild thaing.This is obvious a sign of insecurity and lack of trust.Ghosh he is going with his friends remember that!!! It's very embarassing in front of your friends even if the stripper lay a finger on you. I don't think there is anything to be worried about if nothing else he will come back to you all turned on.
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A
male
reader, Wild Thaing +, writes (12 August 2006):
"i think if i need couples counselling at this point -- we should just break up lol"
I hope you really were joking. To take a dim view on counselling means you have a tough time considering the perspectives of other people.
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A
male
reader, Wild Thaing +, writes (12 August 2006):
Is it a moral issue or a trust issue? People, let's make a clear distinction and stop confusing this poor girl.
Serene Katy believes the heart of the matter is an incompatibility between moral standards. This argument involves far too many people - outsiders to the relationship like their relatives (and us) foist their views of morality and muddy the waters.
I still say the only issue is one of trust - the events at the stag are just a proxy for the trust issue.
What will be the next proxy? You won't feel comfortable if he wants to spend some time with a female friend? You won't feel comfortable if he wants to do anything that does not involve you? Insecurity and lack of trust leads you down a path where you see infidelity whenever he is not within your sight.
It's pretty simple. If you don't trust his judgement then dump him.
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A
female
reader, Serene Katy +, writes (12 August 2006):
Oh my
This is my hobbyhorse, I have to be careful and keep it short.
There is no place in a monogamous relationship for this type of lusting for/ogling and/or touching of another man or woman's body. How would the anonymous lady feel if he was making love to her thinking about all those hot bodies he had seen? I find that really sick.
This issue is deeper than it seems, it is bringing up some incompatibilities in your morals. I think you are aware of this, especially with the fact that you and your family take one view and he and his take the opposite.
I personally would not be happy with a man who WANTED to go to where strippers/exotic dancers/pole dancers were in all male company with alcohol involved. Especially if he knew I'd be upset. Someone trying to negate my feelings on an important issue like this would have alarm bells ringing.
As a man thinketh, so he is. If a man looks with lust on a woman's body, he has already committed the sin.
XX Good Luck XX
Kate
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 August 2006): It's me who posted the question--we have been going out for a year and a half--i think if i need couples counselling at this point--we should just break up lol
I really do not know what to do. How do i act with him now?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (11 August 2006): badbit...it is harmless as she says it is...so still support him going?
I think she needs to be heard and she needs to know her side is a valid reaction.
I know I would feel the same if my boyfriend went to a strip club or a stag. It isn't morally right and don't confuse socially acceptable with morals.
Society doesn't always support values and standards...look at the ungoing erosian and attacks on the importance of families...divorces, cheating spouses, children in trouble with the law...these are in response to the adopting of looser morals that the media promotes.
I say see if you can see a couples counselor before the impending stag party.
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A
male
reader, maxsteel86  +, writes (11 August 2006):
 Hmmm looks like all the guys who've posted so far are all for this stag party thing...
A lot of women I know wont be happy to know their partners are going to get a lap dance. I dont think your prudish or nothing for feeling the way you do. If my girlfriend wanted to go to a male strip show where the guys are all up close and personal, you can bet I wont be happy about that whether it is just entertainment or not! (The kind of entertainment I wanna see is not legal... think two prisoners go in, only one comes out:-P I bet a lot of people would watch!) So just cos its entertainment doesn't make it ok.
And I'm sure everyone has heard how alcohol can make it a lot easier for 'things to happen'. So I say follow up on what Malyce_Synn72 said.
Obviously you wont break up with him over this (or so I think...) but just remind him that if he goes, you'll be hurt and you dont know when or if you can ever get over this (something along those lines).
And also point out you dont give a rat's ass what his family thinks!
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (11 August 2006): I think being jealous of your lover wanting to see and taking delight in the body of another woman separte of you is valid.
Just because he says your uncertaintly is immature doesn't mean it is.
I think that she isn't your wife WildThang and therefore to assume she adopt that view and attitude is not very considerate of her feelings.
She has said that her upbringing is more value centered and family centered.
Strippers is not a family, good, wholesome entertainment.
It is apparent that both people have divergence in beliefs, values, standards, and morals. This difference will be constant if there is no room for consideration of the other person.
His decision is a "me" decision and not a "we" decision.
She is at least expressing herself and it is going unvalidated, unconsidered...how awful.
How is the trust to build after this especially when she told him what the effect of his decisions will have on her.
She isn't immature as she expressed her concerns with openess and honesty.
I think this is more of a moral dilemma that has big time consequences on the relationship.
That he isn't sensitive and feels she "get over it" and "accept" it when she has said she doesn't approve of it and that this is hurting me and causing me doubt, what can we do? He in turn says...it's all you babe and I am going to do what ever the heck I want is not a HEALTHY and MATURE response. Damage is happening here because of a "me" decision.
I think this is oppurtunity to really start to re-examine if this man does in fact know and understand your side of things and why you make decision and what influences them. If this can not be done then do expect ongoing occurances where your side of things will continue to be ignored in favour of a "good time".
Get some couple's counselling.
Said boyfriend isn't being considerate, responsive, or even willing to see her side. That there smacks of disrespect and immaturity.
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A
male
reader, Wild Thaing +, writes (11 August 2006):
"I am jealous and insecure about this and my b/f thinks i am being childish and immature."
Quite right. I give you credit for recognizing that you are the one with the trust issues. As distasteful as this form of entertainment may seem to you, it is just that - entertainment.
My wife and I have known each other for 16 years. In our younger days she had gone on girls' nights out and I had gone with my buddies to the peeler bars. And we have always come home to each other because it JUST entertainment to us.
I would say that from your boyfriend's point of view you are being irrational. If you simply imagine the worst while he is out bonding with his buddies, then your attitude may actually push him in the future to do the worst.
If your relationship with him lasts long enough you may find that he will stop going to the peeler bars of his own accord.
Trust involves assuming risk. If you are unwilling to assume the risk that he will stray on you, then your relationship is doomed. In the end, it is your choice to assume the risk. And don't blame him for his reactions to your choice. Take ownership of your trust issue.
Good luck and take care.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (11 August 2006): Actually...go buy something hella naughty at your local adult store or nearest lingerie store.
Make the boyfriend his favorite meal, massage his feet after supper, light some candles, put on some slow music and begin his own personal naughty girl strip routine.
Drive him absolutely insane. Use your body, touch him with it...
Look up:
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/eve/184695164.html
http://love.ivillage.com/lnssex/sextaboos/0,,traceycox_9h6btcrf,00.html?par=nbc%7Cmn_today%7Cls
did you know you can now work out to stripping?
I say hit him that way and then have the discussion afterwards...he don't need it from anyone else.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (11 August 2006): Why would a committed man desire to go to a bachelor party where more often than not implies there will be nubile, naked flesh of another woman?
I don't think you are being naieve.
I think your sense of honor is well intact.
The strippers are there to provide viewing pleasure and it is pornograhpy.
Do not tell me the strippers and men do not indulge in physcial contact because they do.
There will be lap dances. There will be groping.
He should believe it as you are his woman and he would die at the suggestion of having some of his mates over for dinner and then all of a sudden you hop up on the table and start gyrating and touching your body and tossing your head and then removing your clothing. Can we say HYPOCRITE?
He needs to respect your sense of honor, your commitment and his faithfulness.
This whole crap that his other friends can go is not the issue.
Tell him that him going will welcome in hurt feelings and as well as feeling of betrayal. Tell him that you do not believe it is healthy or normal as you have standards and morals and you are requesting he consider your feelings first and not his lustful and carefree attitude.
I think you should stand firm as if you give one inch...who is to stop him from other bachelor parties, hanging with the boys at the local strip joint, surfing online for porn?
Tell him he doesn't have an intimate and physical relationship with his mother and sister so their opinions are irrelevant.
Tell him that you consider him touching and looking at other women as being unfaithful and you don't want him to put himself in temptations reach.
Put your foot down.
If he can chose one night of debauchery then he is not worth your time and energy Sweetie.
A man in love will do his utmost to make his woman happy.
Best of wishes.
*hugs*
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A
male
reader, badbrit +, writes (11 August 2006):
You need to show a little bit of trust and loosen up a little. Lapdancers do not have sex with drunken leering stag party blokes, and as a man who has been to these club, can assure u that if you so much as lay a finger on a dancer, you will be thrown out.
Yes stags and seeing strippers is sexist but it is also harmless on one off occasions like this. Stags like this are mainly about having fun, being one of the lads again and having a good loud time. To stop him going and even causing the problems you already have will cause resentment. It may make you appear prudish and not much fun.
If your relationship is strong, i would not worry. Kiss him goodbye, say have a nice time and be safe in the knowledge that he is coming home to you later.
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