A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:My question comes as the result of my husband constantly using porn despite an agreement not too and two years of counselling. I have now organised alternative housing but am hurt and wondering what the world has come toDo men even care if porn use hurts their partner. Do they not care that women are held to impossible standards in every single body part in porn whilst men are not and how this may impact their partners self image I'm not talking about couples where both are happy to use porn. I'm talking about when men hide it and know its hurtful to their partner yet still do it Do men really give a damn about women at all or are we just a series of holes to them and housekeepers and incubators
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2015): Lots of great input here . A particular Thankyou to sageoldguy who
Makes some good points.
Although I feel it's much easier for a man to sit back and say he never let another persons actions
Influence how he feels about his appearance because men are under WAY less pressure than women in that way but I do appreciate many
Of his other thoughtful comments
Many other great food for thought reponses and especially the thoughtful commentators on how this links to Feminism
Olderthandirt summed up a lot with his comment about many
Men not understanding women's hurt over porn.
Many women say that it hurts them. Men simply choose to ignore that , either because its comcenient or they don't care ! Whether they 'understand why it hurts the woman is irrelevant . If something
Hurts your partner YOU LISTEN
I'm pretty sure most men would be hurt if the roles were switched and women regularly masterbated to pictures or videos of
Hunky men whilst most women in
Porn were neither the focus and seldom even attractive ( ir roles revesed)
In a different world where men were the objects then maybe they would
Try understanding
Perhaps if Most women say around looking at pictires of wealthy
Powerful men all day masturbating over them and making
It clear that these average men we married with their
Average incomes and jobs were our second choices
Is that the only way they understand? To
Use money as an Analogy?
I think the truth is men will never understand because they have not
Collectively since birth been judged predominately on
Looks or faced a world where women make it so clear that the
Perfect looking male body is so
Important that she will go to any lengths yo
See it and masterbate even to the point of hurting him and losing her
Marriage
A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2015): You and your husband have issues beyond porn. You may have singled-out that as the primary bone of contention between the two of you; but adult-relationships are very complex.
Marriages are either predominately happy, or riddled with problems. All marriages/relationships have problems.
You feel porn-use is the main issue troubling your marriage.
It makes you feel bad. It is my guess that there are several issues in your marriage, and a breakdown in how you two relate to each other. I also think you have issues with your self-esteem that were there long before you ever met your husband. Perhaps he has done things that trigger all your insecurities. I would speculate, you married the wrong guy for you. "All men" can't take responsibility for your relationship to the man you chose to marry.
How "men" collectively have anything to do with your particular issue with "your" husband, is beyond my understanding. Porn and how women feel about it is a worn-out subject. The reality is, it's here to stay; and some men will continue to view it. I remove myself from relationships that cause me emotional-distress, and undo commitments to people who don't respect my feelings. I would think that would be the only way to handle it; aside from working it out. I do believe in trying everything first; then when all efforts fail, bail-out. Keeping my dignity, morals, and values still intact.
I've never entered an adult-relationship intending to tell another full-grown adult what to do. That being because I'm not a child, and will not be told what to, what I cannot have, and how to behave. I will take constructive-criticism and suggestions that will improve me as a man and a human being. I know that will only help me in some way. Such a contribution from someone I love, is chock-full of personal-benefits. It will get me a free-ticket into heaven.
There are women with insecurities and body-image problems that were there long before they ever entered a relationship; and those issues should have been worked-out before subjecting themselves to the challenges of dealing with males in romantic and sexual-relationships.
All men do not watch porn. I will not even bother giving issues women have with porn another second of my concern.
I don't consume that kind of material. I neither condemn nor condone the use of it. It's a popular form of entertainment for many men; but it is not some sort of conspiracy to destroy how women feel about themselves. That is incidental. Correctable when you're a victim, and no longer care to be. Compulsively comparing ones-self to better-looking people, and video actors is self-inflicted anxiety to some degree. The oversensitivity stems from low self-esteem, lack of self-confidence, and dissatisfaction with how one was genetically-designed by nature. Men can't take all the blame for that, and I don't trouble myself debating how much fault we bear for that.
I don't engage in blame-slinging; because I can't deal with who I am, how I look, and the shape of my body. What I don't like, I fix. Seems logical to me. The hell with people who don't like how I'm made, and if I married someone with a problem with it. I will suffer the loss; but I will hand them their walking-papers and take my half in divorce. Divorcees do survive.
Some things are a fact of life. That includes porn. Whatever undesirable habits I find in a mate, I make a reasonable attempt to make my feelings apparent. I discuss it, and try to come to some kind of compromise. I had a relationship that lasted nearly 30 years, and never did I allow the habits of another person directly effect how I feel about myself. I have insecurities like anybody else, but I don't go around blaming any gender for how I feel about my appearance, or the size of any body-part.
If some feel a victim of that; there's lot's of professional-help and therapy out there. That help includes lawyers for those who need to get out of marriages with irreconcilable differences. It's a matter of deciding when enough is enough. Logically, it makes no sense to blame any gender for my lack of appreciation for who I am, and how God made me. There is always someone out there who I know will appreciate me for all my genetically-designed equipment. I also realize the common-sense in keeping my personal-conflicts with my mate one-on-one with the person directly affecting ME!
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A
female
reader, Ciar  + ♥, writes (10 April 2015):
 From my observations, I would say that porn has had more influence over men's (and women's) expectations of women's bedroom behaviour than it has their looks.
I think there are a number of factors, of which porn is but one, that have increased pressure on women to 'put out' or 'put up with'.
Porn is to sex what a bag of chips is to food; cheap, readily available, the rewards are immediate and the cost minimal (small doses, short term especially if enjoyed secretly). This is why they're both difficult to resist and with something that APPEARS to cost so little, harder to condemn.
I wonder how many people would consider it 'healthy' and 'natural' if it were African or Asian men instead of women who featured in them. Food for thought.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2015): no, men actually do have feelings too. i think that many even most men are looking for a connection with their partners. that they are looking for someone both to love them and to show love to. you're making a pretty unpleasant generalization. i hope you dont bring that kind of thinking into your next relationship.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie  + ♥, writes (10 April 2015):
 I don't think it's ALL men either.
YOUR husband, agreed to the "house/marriage rule" of no porn. Whether you wanted it out of personal insecurities, moral or political stance is IRRELEVANT.
He agree. TO me that is like the marriage vow - to forsake all others.
He DIDN'T keep his promise. HE lied.
So if he was WILLING to lie about porn, he might be willing to lie about other things too.
I don't believe women are HELD to a "porn standard" Nor do I think men are. Though if you go by DC post you WILL find a LOT OF "is my penis too little" posts AND maybe that DOES stem from the porn culture where you have ALL male "performers" with ABOVE average penis. With the female performers the standard MIGHT be higher (as is she has to be both 110 lbs and a triple D bust, no hair, loads of make up and bleached butthole), but the male performers? ONLY have to have a big penis.
My husband does watch it occasionally, HE did BEFORE we got married too. And while I'm NOT a fan of porn (and all the "side-effects" we see in society DUE to porn) - I did NOT enter my marriage with a promise of no porn. I entered with a promise of him respecting MY choice and ME respecting HIS choice. Which means being discrete about it. BUT that is MY marriage.
Your husband WILL not change. He feel entitled to do as he pleases regardless of how you think or feel and regardless of what he originally agreed to.
Calling it an addiction may or may not be correct. I think it's a choice. And he chose to watch porn rather than respect you and his marriage.
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A
male
reader, olderthandirt  +, writes (10 April 2015):
 Sage Old Guy says it best; I must quikly add thatwhile not ALL men are the sme. A wholelot of us will never understand the problem women seem to have with porn.
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (10 April 2015):
 OP: Your pain is genuine, no doubt. HOWEVER, those who've opined before me (in this thread) have correctly noted that there are TWO issues....
The first is YOUR HUSBAND and his behaviour.... and THAT is the one which needs to be addressed by you and him.... I believe that you've described a man who just doesn't give a damn about his wife (you). Your only "question" is: How long are you going to tolerate him (his behaviour) before you get fed up and hand him his walking papers. (Soon, I hope!).
The second is your broad-brush query about "all men".. and that simply does nothing to help you in your dilemma. It's the equivalent of getting the wrong hamburger at MacDonald's drive-thru, then asking: "Does every MacDonald's always give out the incorrect hamburger at its drive-thru?"
Good luck with hubby.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2015): Thanks everyone , some interesting answers here . In terms of my husband , yes he compared me and he absolutely did marry me despite the fact he wanted a porn star looking womanThe fact is that like most men, he knew the chances of him ever scoring a woman who looked like that was next to zero so he settled I was not really asking in relation to him because that ship has sailed and I absolutely don't want any part of that anymore I was asking more about men in general because this seems to be a pattern im seeing with friends marriages and society in general.Men seem to hold the potn star image as the idea ( which is why I guess they look that way ) and ordinary woman are basically the fill ins because only about one percent of women look like porn stars so obviously most men can have themIt seems that unless a woman chooses to live in denial and not ask some challenging questions then she is bound to face some very sad facts about mens lack of respect or care for womren. It honestlyfeels to me like men do not even see women as human
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A
male
reader, Garbo +, writes (10 April 2015):
 I want to chime into this convo not to persuade you or give you an answer that you (don't) want to hear but to add a male view on this given you girls have established the truth in this matter. Anyway, people who are addicted don't care about their spouse. Even though your post isn't clear as to whether your man is addicted to porn, I will assume that he is because he is seeking counseling. People with addiction construct their entire routines of daily life to support their addiction. Does your man have routines throughout the day where he will watch porn? How he watches porn? Masturbates to it? Avoids you? Requires constant visual stimuli throughout the day? Does he spend money on porn on regular basis even though porn is readily available for free? If so, then your man is an addict and you should treat him as you would treat an alcoholic. Of course, addicts do know how to put their partner at their wits end, and that is obvious in your post. As for porn in general, tomes have been written in psychology books and much philosophizing has been done over it, but in the end it all boils down to the fact that the popularity of porn is its ability to induce a sexual arousal and promote a fast orgasm through voyeurism. Men are hard wired to be more visual hence its appeal to men. But to produce such a fast orgasm, certain chemicals in the brain have to undergo massive shifts and some people are susceptible to getting addicted to these massive shifts. Your man is one of them.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (10 April 2015):
 I agree with Llifton in that this is a case regarding YOUR husband and not men in general.
I don't care if my husband watches porn either. In fact, now that I think about it, when it comes to comparison between "porn" looks and actual ones, *he* is the more self-conscious about whether or not I would compare him to the porn men, who seem to have two things in common - a massive long elephant-trunk penis, and the ability to jackhammer a woman in 99 different positions for 99 minutes straight with unlimited stamina. He's said before that he's happy I'm not really into it.
As for you, don't even worry about trying to compare or measure up to a porn star's looks! If the standard is now shaving the pubic area to look like an 8-year old girl, or silicone boob, butt, and cheek implants, or moaning wildly in mock-orgasm for an hour, or that DISGUSTING tonguing thing that passes for their version of "kissing", they win! I do not WANT to look or act like that...ever.
But getting back to YOUR husband - if he was in counseling and he has a compulsion, you could substitute drinking, drugs, gambling, workaholic, overeating, pretty much any addiction that throws his life out of balance and hurts your marriage.
With any addiction, relapses are a common event. If he was truly addicted to porn and has vowed to cut it out of his life, then you can help him with that if you stop taking it personally. Women can be nurturing when it comes to substance abuse and helping a willing spouse get back on the wagon, but when it comes to porn addiction, which affects the body in the same exact way with withdrawal and side effects galore, these same women get pissed and head for the hills.
If men didn't give a damn about women, they wouldn't hide it. They'd make their spouses have sex like those silicone moaners, they'd tell them "Get over it" like many people who do drugs or drink get to that point.
The real question is - what's your husband's attitude? Does he want to quit? Does he want to break the addiction? You do realize there will be a lot of failure if that is the case, and you holding the divorce stick over his head like a puppy who piddled on the floor doesn't help.
I don't expect my husband's penis to start vibrating any time soon (although it would make things a lot more interesting! heh), and he doesn't expect me to suddenly start measuring up to his porn - the visual vibrator equivalent.
Don't take it personally. I know you want to, but what are you doing to do, stop dating altogether and join a convent or the Amish who don't have computers or TV's? Your husband's not holding you to a standard by watching porn. You're holding yourself to it. If he wanted a porn star in real life, he wouldn't have married you.
If he's an addict who wants to break it, then don't abandon him at the first sign of relapse. Porn is worse than heroin to break.
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A
female
reader, llifton +, writes (10 April 2015):
 I do get where you're coming from in regards to the double standard about appearances. I was actually discussing this very thing earlier tonight with my male roommate. Basically, how men of all shapes and sizes, old or young, attractive or unattractive, can be broadcasted on television as a news anchor or tv host, and no one cares. But if a woman is to be on tv, she HAS to be beautiful. No such thing as an overweight or unattractive female news anchor. Women are just held to a different standard in regards to looks, plain and simple. This is because women are sexualized in most all cultures. And it's not fair. Not at all. I don't believe your average man can fully understand this - at least not directly. Not because they are insensitive, but rather, because they've never experienced it. It's harder for them to really get it.
That aside, I'm not one who has a problem with porn or if my partner watches it. However, I've never been with someone who obsessively watched it all the time. I can imagine that if I were with someone who had a porn addiction and criticized my body because they compared it to porn, or started expecting me to act like a porn star during sex, that would be a different story. But my experiences have only been that I've been with people who watched it occasionally, and that was all there was to it. No disrespect or criticisms, etc.
You asked do men really give a damn about women at all or are women just a series of holes, housekeepers, and incubators? I think the more appropriate question for this given situation is does YOUR HUSBAND really give a damn about YOU at all or are YOU just a series of holes, a housekeeper, and an incubator? Because yes, I sincerely think men do care about women, in general, just the same as women care about men. But perhaps your husband is just a bad seed?
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2015): The questions you are asking date back to the 60's and 70's when the women's liberation movement first started to protest about the objectification of women for man's pleasure. Advertising is a central source of this objectification and it spreads through many formats - cinema, media, posters, online porn, fashion trends and so on.Many feminists would tell you that it is advertising that, in the end, put a stop to the huge amount of work that women all over the world were doing to insist on equal rights; the feminist movement simply didn't have the money and resources to keep up. Ever since the 80's, when more and more women entered the workplace, advertising and media find ways to try to convince women that they now do have equal rights and that it is no longer necessary to fight for them. This is bullshit. By convincing many women that they have nothing to complain about, all that happens is that women keep spending and buying to keep up their objectified appearances and become complicit in obeying men, not trusting their own instincts that something is wrong. Porn, that was supposed to be so very 'liberating' in the 70's, but which countless feminists protested about, has now become epidemic; it is ruining relationships and polluting children's minds. Stories like yours are just the very tip of the iceberg, and they indicate that women do not have equal rights at all, not in the Western world and definitely not in the East.If you look in the news on a regular basis, you will see that increasing numbers of female celebrities and prominent figures such as Hilary Clinton are gradually joining force to fight for women's rights again. For a long time women have not wanted to associate with feminism because they fear being seen as angry, hairy and unattractive women that no man would want. But the situation today is very altered.As well as this public level, I can tell you as a university lecturer that feminism has been gaining increasing ground across universities worldwide for at least the last ten years. Today, the young women entering my classroom are far more feminist aware and want to embrace feminist values because, just like you, they know a lot is still unequal. Depending on where you live, I strongly suggest you find a feminist or women's group and educate yourself about the bigger picture in regard to porn and other issues of inequality. You can buy loads of books online that deal with this sort of issue - Kat Banyard is a popular feminist writer and would be a good place to start. The internet, your library or colleges and universities can help; many colleges run short courses on issues relating to women's studies and gender politics, but you have to seek them out and find them. I really think it would help you to be around like-minded women and men.I can guarantee you that NOT all men think and act like your partner, but they tend to be the more educated men or men who have learned to respect educated women for their intelligence, not their bodies, or who have grown up in loving families with sisters involved. Educate yourself and get out into the world more, in different circles, and your life will expand. Seeing the bigger picture doesn't have to be depressing, it can be about facing reality and gaining a healthy approach for yourself and for other women.
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