A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:Hi everyone,A few months ago, I moved to a new city for a new job. Most of my colleagues are a lot older than I am, and I am basically the 'new' blood being brought in to compensate for those who are going to retire soon. Anyway, I'm new to the business so I have a lot to learn. One of my colleagues who has about 30 years of experience has basically taken me under his wing, taking the time to explain stuff. This has been really helpful to me. Then yesterday, we were talking about movies during break time and I mentioned wanting to see a specific one. He asked me if I wanted to go with him. I said sure, because why not, it's a nice friendly thing between colleagues. But today, I started wondering if he sees it that way too. He's basically my dad's age, and he talks about his son and daughter a lot, but when I asked him about his wife, he said they live in the same house but don't really talk anymore. His son games most of the time and his daughter is in college, so he doesn't get to spend as much time with them as he'd like. He also said he almost didn't ask because he was afraid of how I'd react. I told him in a neutral voice: "Well, we're just colleagues, so there's not really a problem, in my opinion." I'm wondering if I made a mistake saying yes. If he tries to take things past the strictly friends line, I'm going to have to shut him down, and I don't want this to have consequences at work. Then again, maybe I'm blowing things out of proportion and he sees me as just a friendly colleague to hang out with. What would you do?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (4 December 2016): Oh man I'm sorry you had to go through qll of that. It's just that next time someone keeps messaging you incessantly, know that you can simply NOT reply. Ignore the calls and messages and if he asks you in person just say "I'm not interested, you're making me uncomfortable, STOP IT." Giving him long winded explanations is not needed.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (4 December 2016): Umm this whole situation could have been avoided if you didn't go to the movies with him. I guess that's what your boss was trying to say.
Men and women can't be just friends 99% of the time. Group scenarios yes but not one on one.
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female
reader, fishdish +, writes (4 December 2016):
 I too am disappointed they didn't do more, like I said before, this can't be the first time this guy has done this-which also reflects poorly on management. I think your plan makes sense, save money now to create a rainy day unemployment fund, get your classes completed and get the heck out of there. At least in USA you'd probably be able to claim unemployment benefits for hostile work environment.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (3 December 2016):
 I'm so sorry the company hasn't done anything to help you. And that he doesn't accept responsibility and act like a decent human being.
Honesty? I'd go back to HR and show them the text where the threatened you. That is ridiculous. And why do I say that? Because MAYBE that will help you get assigned another work partner these last 3 months.
And if I were you? I'd start looking for a new job. ASAP There are no rules that you can't line up another job. If you are putting in 50 hour work weeks in your field of training it shows that you are a hard worker.
Unfortunately, many companies don't do squat when it comes to hostile work environment and harassment. Because they KNOW most people won't take it further. They won't sue.
Not much you CAN do, but take it as a lesson learned. IF you gut tells you, don't go to the movies or whatnot with an (especially) older work colleague then listen to that gut.
Hopefully, you will find a BETTER job once the 3 months are over, one with a MUCH better work environment.
And as for the boss that said you lead the guy on... WHAT a fucktwat! trying to be polite and social with your co-workers in NORMAL and when you found it was uncomfortable you said no, and no, and no. For these men (especially) to think YOU are to be blamed that IS NOT normal. Again, it's easier to point the finger at you, because that way they don't HAVE to do anything.
Chin up!
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (3 December 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionFunny you should ask, I was going to ask a new question here today.
Anyway, to cut things short, nothing has really changed. HR had a talk with him and he promised me he would leave me alone and my boss basically implied I was partly to blame for leading him on, which really disappointed me. I asked him in what world does a woman saying "no" multiple times both vocally and in messages, means "leading someone on".
So I just mostly keep my head down, don't talk much and try to do my work. Problem is I still need Bob for some assignments, which is a pain in the ass.
I avoid having to leave the building at the same time as he does though.
He apparently caught onto that because he messaged me saying he wants to know why and when I didn't reply he threatened he would not help me anymore.
I finally messaged him back saying that if he thinks threatening someone is a good way to get answers out of them, he shouldn't be wondering why I don't want to leave the building at the same time as he does.
I guess I could use it to file a formal complaint, but I don't know. I'm tired. If he gets fired it won't be long before I'll be next. The company is paying for the coursework I had to complete before I got the job and if I stick it out 3 more months it'll be paid off in full. So, that's my goal. Stick it out for just a few more months and then leave. I don't know what I'll get afterwards, I might have to move back to my parents, but I don't care. It's better than spending 50h workweeks in an environment like this.
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female
reader, fishdish +, writes (3 December 2016):
Curious if there were any more updates on this! Hope things have taken a positive turn, anon!
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (23 September 2016):
You are still the one who DID it. YOU stood up to him, YOU told him enough, you told him this is inappropriate.
When you posted your initial question you KNEW it was inappropriate of your co-worker or at least "iffy". So you have good instincts, you just have been in this situation before (some of us have).
And like you said if this had been a friend, not yourself, you would have known EXACTLY what to do. So... bear that in mind for "next time" (life is full of dumb people) - when you aren't sure what to do, do a little run through with "what would I say to a friend" who had to deal with this.
Nothing WRONG in not always knowing what the next step should be. You boss MIGHT tell you that he would have preferred you talk to him before the HR, he might support you, he might not. I think you did the right thing. You TRIED to handle it yourself. You gave him a chance to "behave". THEN you went to HR. I'm glad your HR was so supportive, because this wasn't an easy thing to do, I bet.
But hey, if this gave you some skills you didn't know you had before, it's a good thing no matter the outcome.
I'm glad if I have helped just a little. :)
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (23 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks HoneyPie :) Yeah I have already scheduled a private meeting with my boss on monday morning and that will be before HR talks to Bob, so it might be a little short notice, but after the way Bob reacted again today I just do not want to deal with it anymore.
Most of me finally standing up for myself is thanks to people like you though. I would be tough as nails about things like this if it was happening to a friend, but when it comes to myself I have a hard time. This is definitely a good lesson though.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (23 September 2016):
I hope the new job situation will work out for you. And I hope your boss (es) will understand that you HAD to go to HR because enough is enough.
Still TALK to your boss about the HR/Bob thing. He should be in the loop.
Seems like you have found some resources within yourself that have made you able to stand up for yourself, so while this whole Bob-fiasco has been something I BET you could have done without, you have also learned something about yourself.
Remember life IS a series of lessons, what we take from it is up to us.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (23 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionA new development. So I had a talk with one of the advisors at HR and she assured me I had done more than enough to try and stop his behavior and that coupled with the screencaps of our chats, the picture of the gift and my story, they are going to send someone to have a meeting with him and tell him this kind of behavior is not tolerated. They also filed everything I brought so that if I want to make a formal complaint, I'm standing pretty strong. She did advise me to fill in my boss asap to let him know what's going on.
The funny thing was that when I returned to my office to clear some stuff, one of the top managers was present and asked me what my future plans were. I told him I genuinely did not know. He said some new job openings were coming up and that he was looking for a few young people to fill them. He then said he'd give me a head's up if I was interested. I told him I'd really appreciate that.
Soooo I might be changing jobs after all, without actually having to leave. I don't know how this situation with Bob will affect my chances, but it's nice that there seems to be a way out of this mess.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (23 September 2016):
I wish you good luck, OP.
And I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the first time HR have heard about his shenanigans, though they probably won't tell you that.
Do the company have other branches? That is also a possibility. I know it could seem like you "ran away" from the issue by changing branch, but it might be something to consider if the job is decent one. The reason I mention this is because I don't think he will stop. He quite clearly doesn't GET that what he is doing is wrong, inappropriate and downright creepy. However, if he has been with the company for a long time they might be aware of it, but they might still want to keep him around if you know what I mean.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (23 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks again for the feedback guys, especially HoneyPie. I have returned the gift in the presence of a colleague. When she walked away he kept trying to give it back to me and I said "I won't accept it. I told you." I borrowed your sentence then HoneyPie and said that a simple "I'm sorry" Hallmark card was an acceptable olive branch, but no gift cards.
Then he said I was being hurtful and that I had a screw loose or something. I said: "Not about this." And then stopped looking at him.
I am now on my way to HQ where HR is to talk about the situation.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (23 September 2016):
I do think you have to go to HR ASAP. He still isn't accepting that YOU have stood up for yourself. I mean when I read your story he shifts from manipulation, accusations, "forgetfulness" and then to bribing.
Honestly? those are like CLEAR signs of a person with narcissistic tendencies. Which means he will not stop unless he feels HE is at risk at work. Or he has been told off by a man. Because he certainly doesn't respect women.
MAKE DAMNED sure you give him the gift card in FRONT of another co-worker. Trust me on that one. And yes, 100% give it back to him.
A $120 gift card is NOT an olive branch. A $2 hallmark card with an "I'm sorry I was an asshole" would have been appropriate.
Finish your "report" to HR and make an appointment with them. I know you don't want to get him in trouble, but... he isn't going to stop on his own.
Before you go to HR, look into your Employees Handbook. Make sure you have your i's dotted and your t's crossed.
It's OK to not want him fired, but it's NOT OK to let him continue to harass you.
This absurd series of events are NOT your fault. Maybe you were a little naive to think an older married guy just wanted to be nice and friendly - but THAT is not wrong. What he has done AGAIN and again... IS wrong.
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female
reader, fishdish +, writes (22 September 2016):
Yeah I would just go now. I think you may be responding TOO much to him. You don't want to put yourself in a position where "assertive" devolves into aggressive or drama-creating. It's really none of his business when you decide to take it to HR. Just do it.
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHey guys, it's been a while. I've been working up the courage and collecting evidence for HR. I've been acting normally around him ever since the last time I worked with him. I'm not going out of my way to avoid him but I'm also not taking initiative in making conversation. He seemed to be behaving himself.
And then on tuesday I got a message again: "I still have the feeling something's bothering you about me. Am I right?" I didn't feel like dealing with that right then so I just put away my phone and went to the gym. Then I came back and I had a missed call from him.
I messaged him that nothing had been bothering me until he sent me that message and called me. He messaged back that he noticed I had been ignoring him during our breaks and I said that I was simply keeping my distance and that I also wanted to talk to other colleagues. Then he messaged me back that he would be keeping his distance too, adding "because I'm sick of this shit". I just said "ok" and left it at that.
The next day he was extremely irritable and at the end of the day he got me aside for another talk at the elevator. He said he felt it was very childish I was ignoring him. I told him: "Listen, let me spell this out for you. I do not feel comfortable around you, with the way you've been pushing me and demanding my attention. Me keeping my distance is my way of protecting myself and telling you I want you to back off. Your behavior has been inappropriate. Would you call me late at night if I had been a man?"
He sputtered no, because he wasn't "gay or anything". So I said: "well, that right there shows me you can't be friends with a woman, because friendship has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It should not matter if I was a man instead, but to you, it does. That combined with your questions about my sex life--"
And that, he denied, saying: "I can't remember saying that", to which I had to insist 5 times that YES he had indeed asked me about my sex life. And then I said, "combining that with your comparisons to how little attention you get from your wife--"
And he objected again, accusing me of using the one time he opened up and offered personal information about himself against him. "No I am not. It is simply something that is very inconsistent with your claims of friendship. Anyway, combining THAT too AND the comments about how you miss taking women to a dinner and a movie...It is simply impossible for me to come to any other conclusion than that you, a married man, are hitting on me, while I have repeatedly told you I am not interested."
He tried to interrupt me again, but this time I just kept going.
"From now on, I do not want you to message me, call me and/or try to convince me to come with you outside of office hours. You are my colleague and I will work with you, but that is it. You do not have to like it, but you will accept it."
He timidly said he was sorry and would leave me alone.
Then today, he came into work and stuffed a small thing in my open bag. I asked him what it was and he said: "An olive branch, because I feel really bad about how I treated you. I'm sorry. But now I don't want to hear another word about it, we can work normally together."
I did not reply to that and unpacked the 'olive branch' at home, which turns out to be a perfume giftcard worth $120. So I messaged him again today and said. "I just opened up your 'olive branch' and I cannot and will not accept a $120 gift. I will be returning it to you tomorrow and you can bring it back to the store or give it to someone who will appreciate it."
Then he replied: "Just take it. I want things to be back to normal between us."
I said: "That's not how it works. $120 dollars is way too much and even if it was much less, it comes across as trying to buy my cooperation. If I accept this I will not be on equal footing with you. I will not accept this, not even if you can easily miss it. If you meant what you said, that you'll leave me alone and will approach me in a respectful and professional manner only, then that's good enough for me."
Then he said: "Buying your cooperation??? You're overreacting! I said some things that were out of line and this was my way of apologizing for them. Just accept the gift."
I said: "I don't need an apology gift. I just want you to keep your word. So I'm returning it tomorrow."
Then again...a new message: "You know that if I give you something I don't need anything in return. Just keep it and have fun with it."
"Listen, truth is, I don't know that. If it's true, great. Give it to your daughter; I'm sure she'll be thrilled. I'm not going to accept it and this is the last time I'm saying it. Keep your word and we're fine. Keep pushing and I'm going to HR."
He hasn't replied to that yet. I made a picture of the gift and the amount of money on it, just incase. I also made a backup of our conversations. I still feel I might be a little too harsh on him but he's really making me nervous. If he's weird tomorrow I'm going to HR, for real this time. Working here has not been fun.
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHey guys, it's been a while. I've been working up the courage and collecting evidence for HR. I've been acting normally around him ever since the last time I worked with him. I'm not going out of my way to avoid him but I'm also not taking initiative in making conversation. He seemed to be behaving himself.
And then on tuesday I got a message again: "I still have the feeling something's bothering you about me. Am I right?" I didn't feel like dealing with that right then so I just put away my phone and went to the gym. Then I came back and I had a missed call from him.
I messaged him that nothing had been bothering me until he sent me that message and called me. He messaged back that he noticed I had been ignoring him during our breaks and I said that I was simply keeping my distance and that I also wanted to talk to other colleagues. Then he messaged me back that he would be keeping his distance too, adding "because I'm sick of this shit". I just said "ok" and left it at that.
The next day he was extremely irritable and at the end of the day he got me aside for another talk at the elevator. He said he felt it was very childish I was ignoring him. I told him: "Listen, let me spell this out for you. I do not feel comfortable around you, with the way you've been pushing me and demanding my attention. Me keeping my distance is my way of protecting myself and telling you I want you to back off. Your behavior has been inappropriate. Would you call me late at night if I had been a man?"
He sputtered no, because he wasn't "gay or anything". So I said: "well, that right there shows me you can't be friends with a woman, because friendship has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It should not matter if I was a man instead, but to you, it does. That combined with your questions about my sex life--"
And that, he denied, saying: "I can't remember saying that", to which I had to insist 5 times that YES he had indeed asked me about my sex life. And then I said, "combining that with your comparisons to how little attention you get from your wife--"
And he objected again, accusing me of using the one time he opened up and offered personal information about himself against him. "No I am not. It is simply something that is very inconsistent with your claims of friendship. Anyway, combining THAT too AND the comments about how you miss taking women to a dinner and a movie...It is simply impossible for me to come to any other conclusion than that you, a married man, are hitting on me, while I have repeatedly told you I am not interested."
He tried to interrupt me again, but this time I just kept going.
"From now on, I do not want you to message me, call me and/or try to convince me to come with you outside of office hours. You are my colleague and I will work with you, but that is it. You do not have to like it, but you will accept it."
He timidly said he was sorry and would leave me alone.
Then today, he came into work and stuffed a small thing in my open bag. I asked him what it was and he said: "An olive branch, because I feel really bad about how I treated you. I'm sorry. But now I don't want to hear another word about it, we can work normally together."
I did not reply to that and unpacked the 'olive branch' at home, which turns out to be a perfume giftcard worth $120. So I messaged him again today and said. "I just opened up your 'olive branch' and I cannot and will not accept a $120 gift. I will be returning it to you tomorrow and you can bring it back to the store or give it to someone who will appreciate it."
Then he replied: "Just take it. I want things to be back to normal between us."
I said: "That's not how it works. $120 dollars is way too much and even if it was much less, it comes across as trying to buy my cooperation. If I accept this I will not be on equal footing with you. I will not accept this, not even if you can easily miss it. If you meant what you said, that you'll leave me alone and will approach me in a respectful and professional manner only, then that's good enough for me."
Then he said: "Buying your cooperation??? You're overreacting! I said some things that were out of line and this was my way of apologizing for them. Just accept the gift."
I said: "I don't need an apology gift. I just want you to keep your word. So I'm returning it tomorrow."
Then again...a new message: "You know that if I give you something I don't need anything in return. Just keep it and have fun with it."
"Listen, truth is, I don't know that. If it's true, great. Give it to your daughter; I'm sure she'll be thrilled. I'm not going to accept it and this is the last time I'm saying it. Keep your word and we're fine. Keep pushing and I'm going to HR."
He hasn't replied to that yet. I made a picture of the gift and the amount of money on it, just incase. I also made a backup of our conversations. I still feel I might be a little too harsh on him but he's really making me nervous. If he's weird tomorrow I'm going to HR, for real this time. Working here has not been fun.
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female
reader, fishdish +, writes (19 September 2016):
I know he's generally been pretty good about talking to you when no one else is around, but if you can think of any incidents where there were others that may have overheard anything inappropriate, remember those events too, so they may have someone more objective to ask about. Do not talk to other co-workers about it though, because that could result in drama.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 September 2016):
 Good on you! You've been getting great advice.
One thing to add is that you should read the employee manual (if such a thing exists in the company) to be thoroughly familiar with the company's stated policies.
I found some good advice here: http://www.aauw.org/what-we-do/legal-resources/know-your-rights-at-work/workplace-sexual-harassment/
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female
reader, Ciar  + ♥, writes (18 September 2016):
 Actually, you haven't been a wuss. You have standards. You set boundaries, and have maintained those boundaries throughout. You've been clear and up front, and your actions match your words.Do you think this guy is sitting at home beating himself up for being a clingy pest? For being unprofessional and bringing his personal life/issues into the workplace? NO.I think everything will work out fine for you. You sound intelligent, calm and reasonable and I daresay your employer sees the same.Good luck just the same.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (17 September 2016):
Yes, be prepared. but also.... if they ask you to leave because they don't want to deal with this, GET it in writing. Take it to a lawyer. SERIOUSLY. Because THAT is totally MESSED up attitude from their side. And IF that is their attitude, it's NOT a good employer.
This guy NEEDS some sexual harassment classes - which most companies are obligated to give to their staff.
YOU have done nothing wrong, UNDERSTAND that. Even saying yes to going to the movies were not WRONG of you. So no matter what REMEMBER that! In all this, YOU have handled it with grace.
And yes, take screenshots of texts to back it all up. Make a time line, make your "statement" as FACTUAL as possible. Some will be your words against him, but.. my guess is... HE has done this before. This will not be totally new news to the HR. Now past girls who dealt with him might not have been brave to stand up to him and go to the HR - they might just have left. Which means if you don't go to the HR, he will do it again and again.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYeah, I'm going to have to think how I'm going to tackle this with HR, because he is very good at his job and from a really pragmatic perspective me leaving is less bad for the company than him leaving, since he has so much experience.
So I think I'm going to emphasize that my goal isn't to get him fired, but to have someone he'll listen to tell him to back off, since he's obviously not listening to me. The timeline idea is a good idea too. Plus I have phone evidence of some of the messages, including two in which I explicitly state that I do not want to be more than friends. In the end it's still his word against mine though, so we'll see.
I'm also keeping my eye open for other jobs. If this company reacts badly I do not want to work there anyway. Luckily I saved up to cover living expenses for 6 months, so that buys me some time if the worst happens.
Thanks so much for sticking with me so far guys. I started out being a wuss but you guys have inspired me to stand up for myself. I'll let you know what happens with HR.
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A
female
reader, fishdish +, writes (17 September 2016):
It's a good choice on your part, and I agree with HoneyPie to document it as detailed as possible. I wouldn't hide that you had an out-of-office outing with him because it's not like this event gave him a justifiable opening for his inappropriate behavior, because it did not, he took advantage of a new employee who thought it was just a colleague outing. So as far as that portion is concerned, I would highlight that you were being neutral and decided that you were uncomfortable with associating out of the office, and that's when he's REALLY upped the ante. Some aunts may have varying opinions on how to handle this part.
In any case, you shouldn't have to put up with rejecting someone daily, just as he shouldn't be pushing himself on you daily when you've asserted boundaries. He's not someone who's suddenly going to listen to you so I agree with taking up the ladder. I can't imagine that this is the first time this has happened with this guy, though. The wheels of justice may turn slowly at your office. I know you just started there, but I wouldn't put your resumes away just yet; keep your eyes open for other opportunities if your office doesn't support you following your report.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (17 September 2016):
Before you go to HR - WRITE down the whole story from start to "end". Add dates and times if you can. It's easier than going there nervous and THEN have to explain it.
I think going to HR would be a good idea. I didn't really think he would behave, his actions were not that of someone who actually respects young women or thought he did anything wrong. And I don't think he will stop unless he is "reprimanded" (by a dude).
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHey everyone, thanks for the feedback! You've all been tremendously helpful.
So I had to work with him again yesterday, and at first it really seemed like our 'talk' had helped. He talked about work related things, and did not stick to me all the time. Unfortunately this did not last long. Soon he started talking about other things, just smalltalk and drawing my attention all the time, in front of our manager even. I kept my answers short, as to not encourage him and I made several comments about returning to work and being productive.
He backed off a little after that, but when the shift was over and we were leaving the building, he said that nobody was home where he lived and that he had to eat all by himself. Then he asked me if I wanted to grab a bite with him. I said thanks but no thanks. He kept nagging about why not, and instead of offering excuses and explaining myself I said, "I'd just rather not." Then he asked me if it was because of what we'd talked about and I replied that it was. "But I'll be paying for it, so it's free food," he said again, because he knows I'm strapped for cash and save up every penny I get. So I said: "Listen, I'm not for sale. Have a nice weekend." And then I took the door to where my bike was parked. I checked if he'd followed but he hadn't, thank goodness.
Anyway, I got home and later that night I got this message that he had an egg and bacon sandwich at one of the local fast food joints. I did not reply.
I gotta say, I think I am gonna take this up with HR. I'm getting tired of having to tell him off ten times and he still doesn't seem to get it. And I didn't realize it at the time, but you guys are right: that comment about grabbing me does sound like a threat.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 September 2016): I'm with FishDish and her response. I think this man is potentially dangerous. Hell, he said THIS to you:"Then he suddenly asked me what I'd do if he grabbed me, and I told him I'd punch him in the throat and get him thrown into jail for assault. He found that very amusing for some reason.I told him that he didn't have to understand it, but that this was my decision. He had the audacity to ask me how I was gonna find another guy to go to movies and to dinner with."This is PURRRRRRRRRRRRRE manipulation, classic abuser tactic. Preying on your newness to the location, the job, possible loneliness. But the MASSIVE red flag and quite scary thing for me is asking you what would you have done had he grabbed you... WTH I mean WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?????I think this needs flagging to HR... tell them the whole story. Ask that they do nothing at this stage, but that you need to make them aware as you are concerned. What he said to you sounds like a veiled threat. He could be a closet sociopath. Be careful and take professional action by notifying HR. He may take rejection very badly. Sounds as if he already IS by what he has said. He could try to blacken your name at work, get you fired, set you up or make you out to be incompetent. He could lie to other staff and say you thre yourself at him for sex. GET to HR before he causes trouble. I know the type....
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female
reader, fishdish +, writes (15 September 2016):
I think he already IS at a reportable level; just because you hung out outside of work doesn't mean that "asking me about the last time I went on a date, and even if I'd ever slept with somebody before" should ever be brought up IN the workplace. This coupled with the fact he threatened you, asking you what he'd do if he'd assault you? My vibe on him is that he's from a more old school regime where sexism was the norm and totally overlooked, as opposed to being a genuine, true threat, but it is important that you feel safe in the workplace, especially with your history of workplace issues. I wouldn't 100% rule out telling a supervisor. Keep that option in your backpocket.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (14 September 2016):
Good for you OP!
You grew a set, didn't you?! At least you didn't let him intimidate (which I think was HIS plan when he cornered you). Instead, you stood up to him and gave him VERY sound and rational reasons as to WHY you don't want to be his "friend". And WHY your personal life is none of his business. You handled it with grace and common sense.
The AUDACITY of him asking what you would do if he grabbed you DOES worry me a bit. Because it shows that he really doesn't think you have ANY say in this, that he doesn't believe he is being the "aggressor" but that it's somehow his "right" to pursue you. Which it is NOT.
So... OP if he tries ANYTHING, ANYTHING at all - YOU report him. No more being nice.
I hope he will behave from now on. Be proud of how you handled it. You did well!
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYou were right once again, Honeypie. First I got a pretty neutral message saying "I'm sad you feel that way. I had a good time with you last thursday and I thought I behaved myself. I thought you'd enjoyed it too since you said yes when I asked if you wanted to do it again sometime. Apparently I was wrong. Sorry."
At work he picked the same spot he was forced to go yesterday, which meant I didn't get to see him most of the day. He also didn't go on a walk this time. I was so relieved.
Of course when I was about to leave he cornered me in the elevator hallway (which is the only silent spot in the building when it's not busy) and told me he really didn't think I was being fair to him, and that he was hurt that I didn't trust him.
I told him I had fun at our outing but that I decided it would be best to leave it at that because it's not professional. He replied "who cares about professional, why can't we be friends? I didn't touch you or try to kiss you."
And I said: "look at it this way: if a man your age asked your 25-year-old daughter about her sex life, would you think he was just being friendly? Every time you tell me you want to be just friends you contradict it by saying stuff like how that peck on the cheek was the first kiss you got ever since your wife stopped kissing you years ago. And how it's been such a long time since you got to take a woman to the movies and to dinner. I was ignoring my gut feeling, but to me, that doesn't sound like friends. It makes me uncomfortable."
He kinda looked like he'd been slapped and then he got sort of angry, asking me if I was afraid he was going to 'try something'. I replied: "I think that if we keep hanging out after work it's going to create the expectation for more, and I can't give that to you. So me pulling back is preventing that from happening."
Then he suddenly asked me what I'd do if he grabbed me, and I told him I'd punch him in the throat and get him thrown into jail for assault. He found that very amusing for some reason.
I told him that he didn't have to understand it, but that this was my decision. He had the audacity to ask me how I was gonna find another guy to go to movies and to dinner with. I told him: "Well, that's none of your concern, is it?" And then I left.
I was so angry but also relieved. I hope that'll be the last of it though. Ugh.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (13 September 2016):
Good for you!
I don't think it's weak to not want to have that conversation face to face. After all, you know yourself and you have had a glimpse of him and he seems VERY persuasive.
My guess is he will do one of 2 things:
1. try and pretend like you MUST have misunderstood him, he WAS really just being friendly (which is BS but he'll want to save face so I'd let that slide if he leaves you be)
2. try and convince you that he is disgusted and act hurt when around you. Don't fall for that act either. My guess (again) is that he has played this gave before on other young unsuspecting women. That is why his "game" is so "good".
Either way, keep being polite and professional and don't let him (or any other man/woman) pressure you into doing things you really don't feel comfortable with.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks honeypie, you're right, I am annoyed with myself for being so weak still, at this age.
Anyway I replied with: "I've been thinking for a while on what to say. "No" would be a lie, but replying in depth about this through a message instead of face to face reflects poorly on me. I've decided to do it anyway. You've done your best to make me feel welcome at the workplace and I really appreciate that, but I find I'm not really comfortable with spending time together outside of work after all. Despite our conversations on the subject I still feel you're looking for something more than just friendship, and I can't give that to you. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's why I chose to create some distance between us. I would prefer to keep our contact restricted to work only because of this. I hope you understand."
It feels good to have it out in the open but at the same time I absolutely dread going to work tomorrow.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 September 2016): I agree with Honeypie's advice and I'd just like to add that if he replies to your text in any way then don't be tempted to reply back as he'll just try manipulating you again.
You're right to distance yourself as much as possible and tbh what business does he have complaining; he doesn't own you.
Don't be taken in by his "woe is me" act. H's a creep and if he lavished half the attention on his wife that he does on you then maybe his marriage wouldn't be quite so dead.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 September 2016): I am late to comment here, all have given great advice. Your mistake was to be sociable with a married man outside of work on a one to one basis and not in a group setting. From the get go he wanted to get into your pants. Going to see a film with him, he made it clear by what he said and you probably had an idea of it already. Shame you did that, but it's done now.What you should have done by now, however, to correct the mistake, was to make it clear to him that you want nothing more than a relationship on a professional basis. But you gave him the impression that you weren't sure and have weak or no boundaries. How? You didn't put him "in his place" when he was asking personal questions during and after the "cinema date" and when he leaned in to kiss you? Sorry, what???? Either.. you were vaguely attracted to him.. or you are still.. I hate to say naive, I mean, kind, generous, still young and maybe think the best of everyone, which in life, well... you need more discernment.. So now, yes, if you get the impression that people want you to get a spine, it is only because they want to see you put this philandering jackass in his rightful place. I would not text him, I would say, look, can we get a coffee next lunchtime, then go for coffee with him and in a neutral setting, explain to him that he crossed the line in and after the cinema, that you are not interested in him any way at all, you want a purely professional relationship only and that you stay away from married men PERIOD. Put your foot down woman before he makes trouble for you.
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (13 September 2016):
No one is "annoyed" with your lack of spine here :) maybe you are, though?
It's OK that you are not comfortable with confrontation, but if he doesn't "get" the point of yu pulling away you might have t obe blunt. And you know what? it's OK to be blunt like it's OK to say no.
I would reply back that you are fine, but you feel like he isn't getting the point that you only want to be co-workers and nothing more.
It's kind of blunt but in a polite manner.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionTisha, your suggestion is genius, but I'm afraid I don't have the balls to go for it. Instead, I kind of took the cowards way out and started pulling away even more.
I got in early today and we have flexible work spots, so by the time Bob got there all the spots near me were taken and he had to move to a different room. I was so relieved. Of course he stopped by every so often, but he had no excuse to hang out long because it would be super noticeable. I kept our conversations strictly work related.
Then, during lunch break, because it was nice weather, a bunch of us tend to take a walk. Bob used to 'hate' walking but ever since I started going, he's started to participate as well, so I asked a female colleague of mine to come with so I wouldn't have to walk next to Bob all the time. She talked really animatedly at me the whole time and I tried my best to keep the conversation going so there weren't any silences Bob could use to his advantage. This seemed to work because it was soon apparent Bob was the odd one out, because he didn't seek out the company of the other colleagues that were with us. When we got back I usually linger at the coffee machine, but I went straight back to work this time, so I got to skip our usual chat.
Now, because I started working earlier than him, I got through my hours quicker so to speak, and instead of lingering like I usually do, I left on time.
An hour later, I got a message from him. "Is there some tension between us?"
I haven't replied yet, still trying to think of what to say.
I know you guys might be annoyed by my lack of a spine, but I guess I'm still in the process of developing one. Um, as always, suggestions are welcome and thank you so much for reading my follow-ups.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (13 September 2016):
I think he has noticed that you are pulling away and that is why he is now "stalking" you or latching on to you. He doesn't feel confident that you are so easy to manipulate as he had first thought. So you ARE on the right track.
You might not feel able to totally shut him down, but you are showing that you are not interested. So keep that up. If he starts to ask personal questions like he did about your weekend don't FEEL like you OWE him an explanation or in depth description. You could have said when he asked what the plan was;" oh just hanging out with my friends" when he asked what will you be doing? You can say :"no idea yet, but we usually have loads of fun" and then say no more, if he digs for more info you can shut him down by saying... "oh that is my business, let's focus on work or let's get back to work". Be vague with private details.
EVERY time he starts talking personal life (his or yours) SWITCH topic to work related questions. At some point, he will HOPEFULLY take the hint.
You are doing good so far. Keep it up.
If he doesn't stop, maybe try and use the scenario Tisha described where you put him on the spot to "advice" you on how to deal with him. That might also help a lot.
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (12 September 2016):
“Bob, you’ve been around here a while, I know. So I have a really important question for you. I have this friend. She’s new in a workplace. She seems to have acquired an admirer, an older guy who is starting to weird her out. He keeps asking really personal questions, asks her to go do things. She likes her job. She wants to get along with people and not cause a scene.
“So here’s the thing. He’s married. He tried to talk about how bad the state of the marriage but she’s really not interested in marriage counseling nor is she planning to become the woman on the side.
"She’s getting frustrated because he keeps on overstepping boundaries and she’s wondering if she should go talk to Human Resources. I’m thinking she might need to go to HR. The question for you is this, what do you think this friend can do to get this older married man off her case?”
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSo today at work our supervisor wasn't in and my colleague, who I will dub 'Bob' per Tisha's example, had picked his spot next to me to work from all day. It went okay, but he kept reaching out to help me and to talk to me, and by now I'm thinking it's becoming noticeable to my fellow colleagues. (We're not in cubicles so everyone can see each other).
The problem is, the project I'm working on is too complex for me too solve on my own at my current knowledge and skill level, so I need his help from time to time. After I got enough knowledge to keep going I told him I was going to try and figure out my own road from there, to which he jokingly replied, "sure, that's what you say every time." The thing is, I want to figure it out on my own and fall on my face on my own if I can't. I told him this numerous times.
During coffee break he mentioned going to a city close by, closing with "what are you doing this weekend?" I said I had arranged to meet up with a friend of mine and he kept quizzing me about what our plans were, shooting them down with "oh the weather is not going to hold up for that" as if he was basically positioning himself as the better choice. I shrugged and said "we'll see." I should have told him off then, but a burst of colleagues came in and this is not the kind of conversation I want to have in public.
Normally he leaves earlier than me (I come in later) but he stuck around for an hour longer, saying he had work to finish, but when I started to clear my space he was mysteriously done at the same time. He always goes out the front door because that's quickest to his car, but I always have my bike stored in the back so he followed me out back, making small talk the entire time. Unfortunately, there were too many colleagues from our workplace using the same exit, so I felt I couldn't start "the talk" there either.
I'm probably a coward though. What do you guys think? I want him to back off and stop following me around everywhere I go but I don't want the entire department to know what's going on.
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (10 September 2016):
Hey, if it helps to talk it through with all of us here at DC, go for it! Having a sounding board is good.
But take the advice given to heart, consider it and If you find that it FEELS right, USE it.
YOU do not OWE him squat. Yes, you work together, YES it's easier to work with people you get along with, YES he KNOWS he can manipulate you and YES he will KEEP pushing you till you either set him straight or... he gets what he wants.
FIND your courage to say no to him and ANYONE else that you WANT to say no to.
NIP this in the bud. ASSERT yourself more. Being assertive is NOT being mean, it's setting up boundaries for others (and yourself). It might be hard in the beginning, but WORK on it. It will help you in your WORK and your private life.
Pleasing people is GREAT in the service industry, but you ALSO have to please yourself - in that I mean you have to be READY to say no. No, thanks.
And I agree with Tisha - next time he "gets" you alone... Tell him...
Bob. Dude. Take the hint. Seriously. Stop asking me out on dates. Ain’t gonna happen.”
“Bob, because I work with you I’m trying to be kind. Here’s the situation and your brief. We aren’t going to go out again. Stop asking. Simple. No offsite friendship outings. You stop asking. You do that, we get along great. You don’t get that, I go to HR.”
YOU can do it!
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 September 2016): I agree with what everyone else has said; this man is a predator and he's only interested in having sex with you.I understand how you feel but you should stop feeling guilty about trying to put this man off and stop listening to his "Were only friends" BS. I'm probably the age of this man's wife and if my husband came home and said he's just taken a young women out for food and a movie, paid the bill and given her a peck on the cheek he's be sleeping in the spare room and I'd feel betrayed. You're right as under no circumstances should you go out with him again. He will make a pass at you, you will be forced to reject him and he may not take it well. I know from bitter experience. Like you I am a people pleaser and at your age naive and passive. A married man at work took a shine to me and started monopolizing me. When I was forced to reject him he went to my line manager and told her I'd tried to seduce him at work. I was threatened with a disciplinary and although it never came to anything I was humiliated and forced to leave.You need your survival instinct to kick in at this point. I get that it's hard to say no but as others have said practise scenarios in your head of what you could say. In truth you don't have to justify why you don't want to see him out of work; he's married. Also remember you don't have to really listen to his attempts to persuade you. You can just repeat "I said no" or "You're married and I don't feel it's appropriate" If he was truly your friend he'd respect your wishes.I used to find a good way of putting off unwelcome attention was to invent a boyfriend/date. There's nothing a dirty old man hates more than a young, single, virile guy to compete with. Good luck and remember once he realises you can't be manipulated he will back off and you can go back to being colleagues again.
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (9 September 2016):
“Bob. Dude. Take the hint. Seriously. Stop asking me out on dates. Ain’t gonna happen.”
“Bob, because I work with you I’m trying to be kind. Here’s the situation and your brief. We aren’t going to go out again. Stop asking. Simple. No offsite friendship outings. You stop asking. You do that, we get along great. You don’t get that, I go to HR.”
If you need to practice responses, write what he might say and we’ll have the response.
Put the dude in the “nasty” column and deal with him accordingly. This means not trusting him, keeping your distance, minimizing contact AND most importantly, LOG ALL INTERACTIONS. Get a little notebook, write down each and every contact. Take screenshots of texts. Write the date on everything. Document document document. Make it a practice.
He might realize what you are doing and back off but if the guy is this persistent then you might be doing your company a favor by getting rid of him, via harassment charges with HR.
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female
reader, fishdish +, writes (9 September 2016):
I agree with Tisha. He is a manipulator and wants what he thinks he deserves. But he is not entitled to you. You don't owe this guy anything.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (9 September 2016):
He’s only good at talking when someone is listening. Stop listening.
Don’t tell him the outing was fun and that you’ve reconsidered. Just say “no, that won’t be possible” when he suggests another outing.
If he persists, “Bob, you’re starting to sound like a creeper. Do I need to go to HR?”
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female
reader, Ciar + ♥, writes (9 September 2016):
You did the right thing. For the record, he wasn't kind to you. He was trying to get you to lower your guard do he could enjoy more than friendship.
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for the feedback guys.
Yeah, my problem is definitely that I'm too polite. When someone is being clearly nasty to me I know exactly what to do, but when someone is skirting the edges of what's acceptable I just find myself at a loss. Especially since he's part of my team. I work with him every single day.
I have made this mistake several times. First time I was a teen and this 30 year old guy invited me in for coffee and then locked me up in the bathroom. I managed to get out unscathed (by basically breaking the door down and running the hell out). Second time I was twenty and my manager had (unbeknownst to me) booked us a double room at a hotel during one of those extended business trips. I declined and he bothered me for weeks, hoarding me with messages. I even got a call from his wife at one point who cussed me out for being a slut even though I never slept with him or even kissed him. I was better at fending off the two that followed after that, but I obviously still attract these kind of people.
I'm a people pleaser and very naive when it comes to stuff like this.
I also (stupid, stupid) said yes when he asked to do it again sometime, because I felt pressured. It's just very hard for me to say "no".
But after this weekend I'm going to tell him at work that I've reconsidered and though our outing was fun, I'm gonna leave it at that.
Problem is he's very good at talking. It doesn't come across in my post, but he's very good at making me feel guilty for questioning his intentions and objecting. Does anyone know how I can handle this conversation? I mean, I don't want to give him a chance to argue his way through again, if you get what I mean.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm asking you guys to hold my hand.
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (9 September 2016):
I agree, STAY clear of him.
If he suggests another outing tell him no thanks, that you PREFER to keep it professional and also DO NOT share any more tidbits about your life or past other that the little casual things people will share with a stranger. And if he starts talking about his wife, change the subject.
Asking about your sexual life is crossing a line, IF he really is just looking to be a friend. So don't give him ANY of those details they are NOT something you NEED to share. My guess is he is hoping that you are 1. a virgin and 2. inexperienced 3. naive. Prove him wrong with #3. The other two are NONE of his business. The fact that he leaned in for a kiss SHOULD give you a HUGE clue to how bad a liar he is. And the next fact... that you gave him a peck, has clued HIM in that you ARE easy to manipulate and that you are worried about offending people.
There are PLENTY of little (and big) RED flags and while I can understand you are JUSt trying to be polite and friendly, you NEED to distance yourself as well.
So in Short OP, LEARN to say no. Or no, thanks to this guy. DO not let him rope you in with "sad sack" stories about his lack of affection within his marriage and other: " blah blah blah I want to get in your panties stories."
Be smart, use common sense and AVOID him.
DO NOT worry so much about "seeming" to be RUDE. He is pushing your boundaries and you... by being so "nice" are "letting him"... If you don't watch out he will try and get you drunk at the Christmas party (where his wife mysteriously isn't with him) and get in your pants. He is THAT slimy.
Bet you.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (9 September 2016):
You’re right, this is not normal “just bein’ all friendly ’n’ cozy-like” behavior. This guy is looking for an affair so hard his pants are splitting. You are not ‘friend’ material for him, he has all the friends he needs. You are ‘get in the sack’ material to bolster his sagging ego. He’s lying about his wife, he’s lying to his wife, he’s a lying kinda guy.
Stay far far away from him. And watch out, your colleagues are fully aware of his character and are in the process of assessing yours. If you want to keep a good reputation and enhance your career, this guy is not someone you want close to you. You don’t want to be associated with him, you don’t want people at work looking at you and thinking, “oh look, there’s Bob’s latest bang.”
Wake up, open your eyes and look around. You can make friends elsewhere.
This guy is poison.
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female
reader, fishdish +, writes (9 September 2016):
Stay faaaaaaaaaaar away from him. Your sixth sense about him is obviously right, he thought he could groom you into his mistress. Technically, what he's done probably counts as sexual harassment already, asking about your sex life is WAY inappropriate. Stay away from him. I don't know if I'd block him, but I definitely would not answer any other texts from him.
If, for whatever reason, he tries to kiss you again, even on the cheek, I'd ask him what he thinks he's doing. He is not entitled to you like that. He's trying to play off like he's doing nothing because that approach is more likely to make you insecure, to let your guard down, thereby allowing himself to take advantage.
If he continues inappropriate work behavior, consider going to your boss.
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 September 2016): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionA little update. We finally went to see the movie together after work. Beforehand, he insisted on getting a bite to eat. Anyway, it was a fun evening. He did not make any moves on me, though he did not let me pay for any of it, which I wasn't comfortable with.
Later he asked me why I was so insistent on paying my half, so I said I didn't want to create the impression of a date and that I wanted to stay on equal footing with him. He was quite surprised by this, asking me if I was the same with friends. I told him that with my friends I do not have to worry about them potentially being interested in dating me.
He wanted to drop me off at my house, but I still had my bike parked at work, so I asked him to drop me off there, so I could cycle home (only a 15 minute trip). I'm probably paranoid, but I do not want him to know where exactly I live. Anyway he leaned in for a little goodbye kiss so I gave him a peck on the cheeks.
Anyway today at work during break, when no-one was watching, he asked me if I wanted to do it again sometime. I kinda froze up a little, so he asked me why I was so uncomfortable, since he did not have any bad intentions.
I admitted to him that I have been blindsided by older, married men in the past who said they just wanted friendship but pressured me for more later. He said I couldn't let things like that scare me so much, so I said that everyone is the sum of their experiences and my experiences have taught me to be cautious.
Later he said he liked talking to me because we share a lot of the same interests, I'm beautiful and because he doesn't really get to do this kind of stuff (going to dinner and a movie with somebody) a lot. He also said that the last time his wife gave him a kiss was years ago. I told him that this kind of information is exactly what makes me uncomfortable, because he's a married man in a dead end marriage and he's asking me with him instead of another male colleague he gets along with. I mean, what am I supposed to think here.
He started asking me about the last time I went on a date, and even if I'd ever slept with somebody before. I was kind of baffled, so I told him that's hardly relevant to his interests, or is it. He backed off after that.
He has my phonenumber, so I just got a message from him saying "Should have told me that stuff about your past before. Anyway I hope you have a nice weekend." I replied saying "It's not the kind of stuff one normally discusses during coffee breaks, is it? Anyway, I hope you now understand where I'm coming from and that we can never be more than friends. Have a good weekend!"
I hope I did the right thing. I don't want to be too hard on him since he's kind to me. I'm also feeling that this is not normal behavior for someone who just wants to be friends.
What do you think? And what would you do, in my situation?
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female
reader, fishdish +, writes (28 August 2016):
yea this could go south real fast (no pun intended?). I might consider bringing a friend with you two so you can feel assured he won't pull any moves.
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male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (25 August 2016):
 I'm with Honeypie and Ciar.... AS WELL AS.... asking you to determine if you and he are actually going to SEE the movie..... or, are you and he going to simply sit in the back row and make out? (That's how I usually handle "movie" dates.....)
Good luck..
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female
reader, Ciar + ♥, writes (25 August 2016):
I'll second Honeypie's caution.
You're dancing a line here because he's already started the troubled marriage routine. I cannot even begin to count how often we've heard this. It's a cliché really.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (25 August 2016):
I'd go. But I would keep conversation to work/casual, nothing about your love life (none of his business).
If he starts talking about problems with his wife, the whole my wife doesn't understand me or other bull crap to try and make you feel sorry for him or what not, change the subject.
GOOD thing about seeing a movie is that you DO NOT have to talk during the movie.
And you can ALWAYS decline a drink/food afterwards.
HE is a married man and while I personally would have said no thanks from the get-go, I think it can be OK as long as YOU can set boundaries and don't fall for any "woe is me" bull crap.
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