A
female
age
36-40,
*ltaylor
writes:Im the poster of the unattractive black women post (Go back and read it. Great Posts) and I think we are not seeing eye to eye, so lets play a game.For men, choose one of the following women and explain why you would date her over the other (Obviously just physical attraction).1Eva Mendez (Hitch)2Kate Winslet (Titanic)3Halle Berry (Perfect Stranger)4Lucy Lui (Charlies Angel)5Zoe Saldana (Avatar)For women, choose one of the following men and explain why you would choose one over the other.1Brad Pitt (Oceans 11)2Will Smith (Hitch)3Jet Li (The Forbidden Kingdom)4Alex Rodriguez (Baseball Player)5Taye Diggs (Private Practice)Dont be shy and really think about it. What makes them more attractive than the other?
View related questions:
player, shy Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (14 February 2010):
 yea ... I know your not Chinese race, but I thought you might be a Chinese citizen... sorry, I'll get it right next time... :)
A
male
reader, baddogbj  +, writes (14 February 2010):
 I'm sorry to be several days behind on this. I'll have to blame it on getting ready for Chinese New Year.
Obviously for me, of these 5, it would be Lucy Liu although I'd rather substitute in a genuine Chinese gal rather than American born as Lucy is a little too muscly. Maybe Liu Yifei although actually in all honesty and I'm not just saying this because I'm in a gooey Valentine's Day mood, I struggle to think of an actress that I would rate above either my wife or my mistress.
Miamine -re your 8th Feb post - I'm NOT Chinese! The little flags indicate where we live not our race.
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (11 February 2010):
lol... interesting theory Q.. do you have any supporting evidence to back this up? hahahahaha...
...............................
A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (10 February 2010):
 44 answers into this . . . .
I just can't pass up a direct question. Why do I think black women are single. I think Black women are single for three reasons.
One, marriage is not valued by our current society. There is very little that marriage offers, that you can't get without marriage. That one doesn't apply to why black women aren't in relationships.
Two, JJ is right that many women are not presenting men with what men are looking for. That goes both ways. I also think that a person should not have to pretend to be something that they are not. So I don't know how to fix that. One helpful thing would be if men would respect the feminine qualities, and if women would honor the manly qualities.
Three, I think that women today have a general prejudice against men. We have taught it for a generation and this is the result. When a woman sees a man she doesn't see what she is looking for. She sees his faults first.
I see a trend towards a matriarchal society, with unattached male drones. I'm pretty sure it will not be a good thing. So, I spend quite a bit of my posts here telling young men to "be Men".
As to my history, I forgot to mention that at the time I was in the worst rebound period of my life. She was likely lucky that I didn't notice her much.
FA
...............................
A
female
reader, sltaylor +, writes (10 February 2010):
sltaylor is verified as being by the original poster of the question Hey Miamine! Im not getting sensitive but people kept putting in their posts that Im not having anything to back up my arguement. I felt like they were saying that I was making this stuff up and they wanted to see proof so thats what I did. I hope it cleared up some things for them. And maybe attacked wasnt the right word to use. Also thanks for the womanly advice.
To the other poster, I will NEVER see being a piece of ass as a good thing because Im much more than that. I have self respect, morals, and great values. However, if you think this a compliment then thanks...
And FatherlyAdvice,
You hit it right on the money. But also note that these were JJ's opinions of why black women are single. What do you think? Why do you think we are single? O and Im also sorry that you missed out on a chance to get to know a black woman but maybe you just weren't attracted to this particular black woman which is why you didnt notice her advances. Thanks for the posts
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 February 2010):
lol... should have made it clearer that I was talking about all men, and wasn't actually picking on one race.. :)
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (9 February 2010):
Fatherly advice... yep you hit the target with that one. Your right, it's not a question of attractiveness or black and white. (as I explained about the situation in the UK) The problem is, for whatever reason we are turning out inadequate men. The old aims of commitment, honour, faithfulness, hard working, blah, blah, blah, ext.... are gone.
The pool of suitable men is smaller, there's more competition and in turn black women, white women, women.... have to fight amongst themseles. We need to sort out these stupid boy children and make them think right... maybe our generation missed out and we only got cowards and dummies to choose from.
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (9 February 2010):
see.. Q is white in the deep south.. he don't understand racism and see's tits and ass.. :P
...............................
A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (9 February 2010):
SL Taylor,
Thanks for the articles. They were very helpful to me in understanding where you are coming from. I do note that both articles were quite pointed that attractiveness was not the problem. I think JJ covered the problems very well and if you have a link to the follow up article I think I would like to read it.
I took just enough statistics in school to get very suspicious when reporters start throwing them around. journalism majors don't have to take stats in college. If they get through college algebra with a c that is enough. (ranting) My favorite is that 73% of all statistics are made up on the spot to cover a situation, for example this one. The statistic I was looking for was in the post article. 17 percent decline in marriage in the U.S. 34% decline among U.S. blacks. That one gives credence to everything you are saying.
I think there is a general decline in quality among young men. It may be more pronounced among black young men. I see the young men I know trying to dodge responsibility. Avoiding education is another trend. The current "cool" young man is only making enough money to keep himself in Doritos and the latest video games. He has no plans for the future, and no means to achieve them if he did.
So the competition is getting pretty fierce for what is left. Looks like you really need to stand out if you want to attract a quality guy. I wonder if more of the problem is that the guys you are trying to attract aren't even looking.
FA
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (9 February 2010): i love men.. i love short men, tall men, black men, white men, if they are full of testosterone...i like them. in a room i will end up chatting with the men. i love women and i am not making move on these men i just honestly find them so attractive. there are men that dont but looks arent a huge factor with me...it the smile, the spark, the personality, the easy comaraderie...the way they walk their oh man i just like the male population. if i were in the dating game i dont think race would be a big factor. mal
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (9 February 2010): Wanna know a very interesting statistic?? Black women and white men are the least likely to divorce.
Im not 100% sure but I think that there hasnt ever been a divorce betwwen us
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (9 February 2010):
mmm.. Q is a man, and he's white.. he only sees ass and tits, he can't understand racisms...
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (9 February 2010):
sltaylor, don't get all sensitive on me and take this personally and get aggressive.. we don't want to match up to the stereotypes... as you can see, the aunts and uncles are trying hard to understand your question and find a solution.. but many haven't dated blacks, many have no idea of racism and love everyone, many don't even see the problem.
ok.. me.. well yep.. I'm now 40, and it's ok for me to date outside my race, before it was forbidden.. Yes I have problems attracting men, but at the moment I'm sick and look like an old lady. I like books, and that's what puts men off, nothing to do with my colour. I also like fighting and arguing, and many men get frightened and wonder if they are strong enough to handle me.
I get white, black and Indian approaching, but mostly it's for sex, or for study. I get a spark with a man, and I can pull him in like a fish in the sea, if only I had more confidence. As a single woman, who hasn't done sex for a little while, I blame me, not the world. I am very aware of the barriers I stick up to avoid dealing with bloody men.
Your picture, yep, you got me shape and colouring.. one of the best in my mind. In Jamaica they call this a "coke a cola bottle, and it's the top of female beauty. Same shape as Jane Mansfield and Marilyn Munroe. Not too skinny, not man shaped, sexy, voluptuous and female... there's nothing wrong with your shape and beauty, I look exactly like you do.. Hips and tits I call it, suitable to work in porn.
But, I have no problems with men.. Don't want them at the moment, but when I do.. slap on some makeup, some fancy gear and pretend I'm female and they come running. Silly guy's, don't realise that's it's all false.
Yes, I'm forced to agree, it's all in the attitude. Everyone knows I'm the most beautiful woman alive.. and the idiots that can't realise that are missing out. What's a little bit of sickness, a bad temper and an attraction to knives.. never my fault, always the men, just can't match up to me and are scared.
Stop thinking in percentages.. your the sexiest woman alive, strut your stuff and see what a difference this makes to your life. Men can see when you are desperate, or have no confidence and this turns them off..,, but a woman who knows she is the best and can pick and choose, you get them bloody lining up to irritate you.
I'm black, I have the same shape and colouring as you, and in my world, even when I try to hide in bad clothes the men still keep on bothering me.. It's all about the attitude.
...............................
A
female
reader, sltaylor +, writes (9 February 2010):
sltaylor is verified as being by the original poster of the questionNo, thank you! People keep thinking im pulling this crap out of thin air when its alive and well. Hopefully, this will shut some people up instead of attacking me
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (9 February 2010): Well kate Winslet look way to stuck up for my liking, so ill pas there.
I doubt I could afford half a date with Haley Berry so shes out.
Eva mendez was very wooden in hitch, (wasnt sure if she was a bad actress or just folowing the script) so I wasnt warming up to her.
I havent seen Avatar, so I dont really know what zoe looks like.
So my choice is Lucy Liu, cute and very energetic, i think she could handle being ingafied, if not she could always call in her backup lol.
What about Tiger Woods??? Is he out now??? Id consider turning for the tiger lol
You should have added an option of which star of the same sex would you most like to hit.... myne is Johnny Depp or Mick Jagger. Damn they annoy me lol
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (9 February 2010):
hahaha... I'm loving it girl.. thanks for me evening reading and the video stuff.. :)
...............................
A
female
reader, sltaylor +, writes (9 February 2010):
sltaylor is verified as being by the original poster of the questionhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/07/AR2006100701070.html
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvQel-sIKwM
http://www.blackstarnews.com/news/125/ARTICLE/6191/2010-01-01.html
These are a few links to the discussion of why black women are single. There are more but these are some
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (9 February 2010):
Thanks Fatherly Advice for sharing your story...
mmmm.. I think I'll go out and look angry and aggressive with a "don't bother me" face. I like smiling, and it gives the most creepy men the wrong ideas. Hope your smiles and confidence don't work very well, you might get trapped in an elevator with an old white Italian man who thinks that you and him could hit it off. (yukk.. hate them old men who get the wrong ideas)
...............................
A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (9 February 2010):
OK I'll dive in again. There are two ways to do research.
One way is to look at all the evidence you can find. Then weigh it. Then decide what the fact is.
The second way is to decide first what you think the fact is. Then go look at all the evidence you can find. Then weigh all the evidence. Then decide if you were right.
Now the problem with the second method is that sometimes you ignore the data that disagrees with you. That is not honest research. It is witch hunting.
You have been unsuccessful at finding a relationship partner. Plenty of girls from all races including two of my sisters have had this problem at your age. Then you run across a statistic about marriage that you think supports your view. (You haven't given us a link to it so we can examine the source.)
Every day on this message board you will find women complaining that they aren't getting their share of the attention from the men. Some because they are too thin, some too large, some wrong hair color, some wrong race. I truly believe that the reason they aren't getting the attention they want is because of two things. One they are walking around with a big chip on their shoulder. This is very intimidating to other people. It makes them avoid first contact. The second is that they fail to see the attention they are getting, because they aren't getting attention from the "right" man. Eventually they become bitter and eccentric, and it becomes almost impossible for them to accept any relationship.
Now we have been trying to show you that all women can be attractive. Mia has been assuring us that all men can be attractive. Yet you are still searching for evidence to the contrary. So I'll give it to you.
Before you consider me a complete hypocrite let me give you some background. I live in the west. The black population is lower here than anywhere in the united states. I'm quite a bit older than you, so interracial dating was even less acceptable. And, it is possible that I may have been affected by a black teacher I had in grade school who actively persecuted me for religious reasons. I was unaware of her reasons and didn't understand the whole thing till years later.
OK here it is. I have never dated a black woman. I have also never dated a person not of my race. I had a black roommate in college. During that year he dated exclusively petite white women. During that year I also had the one experience of my life where a black woman approached me. I still wonder to this day if she was interested or just kind.
It was a double feature movie party. I went alone because I wanted to see the first movie. I sat next to her and her friends because there was a seat available. I think she made a mild advance to me. I was friendly. When the first movie ended I got up and left. She asked if I was staying as almost everyone was. I told her that I really disliked the type of movie that was up next and left. I wonder if she felt rebuffed. The reason I left had nothing to do with her, I think. I'm pretty sure I would have left If I was sitting next to Drew Barrymore.
Any way there it is. A guy who has never dated a black woman, and messed up the only chance he had of doing so.
FA
...............................
A
female
reader, sltaylor +, writes (9 February 2010):
sltaylor is verified as being by the original poster of the questionMiamine, Thats what I tried to do. Jet Li is chinese lol. I dont know if people notice but the people on the list are all different races. I also decided to do an experiment. Beingblack told me that maybe its just me and Im making race the issue so... Ive decided to go somewhere with tons of people, men in particular, and Im going to walk around with an I dont care attiude and a smile on my face, etc and see if its just me and not a race thing and it may be a confidence thing afterall. Maybe black women do walk around like they may have an attitide. Maybe we do walk around like we're not happy with life and it shows in the way we walk or the way we talk and percieve things. Who knows! For the black women on here, join in the experiment! Wish me luck!
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 February 2010):
hahahaha... yippie.. we get to choose... but I think we should also think about looking sexy people from different races.. :) mmmm.. thinking about handsome Chinese people now..
...............................
A
female
reader, Carrot2000 +, writes (8 February 2010):
 I know they aren't part of the quiz, but here are celebrities I'd smash:
Tyrese
Idris Elba
Taye Diggs
Marcus Patrick (gotta show the light-skinned brothas some love!)
George Clooney
Russell Wong
Oded Fehr
...............................
A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (8 February 2010):
Dead Eye is dead on, and congratulations on attaining that level of wisdom. When you love someone their physical attributes become attractive to you. Quite likely why I am attracted to large redheaded women. In all honesty when I met my wife, she reminded me of an ex-girlfriend. Fortunately it worked out better with her.
Now about the 70% statistic that we are batting around. (yes I'm going off the game) If we count "single" as meaning not married, and not as meaning "not being in a relationship" I could believe it. Marriage as an institution is in trouble. That's another topic. I would be interested to see how other races stack up in that statistic. Again another topic.
Yes, Ive seen your picture (it's pretty tiny). You look like an attractive size 14. The stance is confident. Of course that could be staged. Without meeting you how would we know. You could be snarling not smiling.
About the game, thanks for allowing Queen Latifa, I'm pretty sure I covered why I like her. And thanks to Mia for doing Danny DeVito. Your answer helps my understanding.
FA
...............................
A
female
reader, sltaylor +, writes (8 February 2010):
sltaylor is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDeadEyeDick,
Just from your statement I can tell that you are an opinionated person and might actually be a good guy. I dont have a type but just how you came at me, open and honest, very attractive. And I havent met you! Lol
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (8 February 2010): Okay. You're right. No one likes black girls. You're a fish swimming up the river. You have special disadvantages and it's going to be really really hard for you to find someone who likes you in a long term sense. Good luck. You will need it.
...............................
A
female
reader, sltaylor +, writes (8 February 2010):
sltaylor is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDeadEyeDick(Great name btw),
So hostile! I love it. In your own way, you just called me attractive. Thanks! And I am. Thanks for the post, sir. And yes, what you're saying is very true. Once you get to know a person, they can be the most hideous person in the world even if theyre drop dead gorgeous. BUT, thats what Im trying to understand. Men arent trying to get to know me. You've seen my pic, right? Do you find me attractive? Do you actually like black women? Do you in general find them attractive? Have you tried to get to know one and not think about their color? Im just trying to get people to talk is all. NOT bicker, just discuss. Thanks again for the post!
...............................
A
female
reader, sltaylor +, writes (8 February 2010):
sltaylor is verified as being by the original poster of the questionBeingblack, dude, I have no problem with myself. OMG! Seriously, I dont. I think that Im cute and fun, with an outgoing personality. I have confidence but Im wondering why guys, probably like you, dont see it and dont see it in other black women like me. And if you didnt notice, I was trying to pick a person on the lists from different races. I feel like you're trying to be a smart aleck and you didnt even answer the question, sir. You can substitute anybody of your choice in the category. And that goes for everyone.
Heck, if you want just name a random person that you find attractive and what is it about this person that is really attractive. I mean, this is a game. I just want to see what people, men and women, find attractive.
O and to the guy who said y isnt Queen Latifah isnt on the list, sunstitute her in for Halle Berry. If anyone doesnt like Eva Mendez then substitute in Penelepe Cruz or Salma Hayak. People who dont like Zoe Saldana, substitute in Rosario Dawson. You get me..
Ok so I didnt answer the question! And Im going to use the new revamped rules lol.
I would choose Tyrese. Now Tyrese isnt the best looking guy but... He has sex appeal and hes very funny (from interviews), very talented, and has the most beautiful smile in the world. I dont want to have kids but I would definitely have a few for him! Whoo!
Miamine, you are awesome too! Thanks for all your post and because you love Paulie you can incorporate him in also. :)
...............................
A
male
reader, DeadEyeDick +, writes (8 February 2010):
 This is bullshit! you assume your an unattractive black women, ive learned something very important! the more attractive a girl is to me, right off the bat, the less attractive they turn out to be once you get to know them, and when I don't find someone attractive right away, and start to find them attractive as I get to know them, those are usually my best relationships! It seems like the women that everybody sees as attractive are generally, shallow, and head cases! as I get older I find attractive looks become less and less appealing to me! and look far more for attractive personality, and attractive desires!
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 February 2010):
Nope beingblack.. it's my fault.. me and some Chinese guy started a little race war and her original question got lost... sorry, my fault, I must apologise for that., But as you know Mr. British guy with black sisters, this often happens when the question of race comes in.
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 February 2010):
yep.. fatherly advice.. it's not the physical beauty that attracts me, or the colour of the skin or even the race or physical build... I like the way men move.. so I don't really like will smith or brad pit.. but I love lawrence fishbourne, paul newman, richard gere, and Bruce Willis.. unfortunately there are few black actors on this list, that's because there are few black actors in Hollywood, if we include music I would have more choice.
...............................
A
male
reader, Beingblack +, writes (8 February 2010):
 Oh dear Ms sltaylor. A game.
Are you not seeing eye to eye with the aunts because you didn't get the answers that you wanted?
You've got this all wrong.
If you are trying to prove that 70 per cent of black women are single, and that black women are the 'least' desirable of dates, this straw poll here will do nothing to help you.
I do not believe that '70 per cent' figure.
I do not believe that black women are the least desirable, but clearly you do, and that belief is what is affecting you so much.
I can never change my skin colour, and never want to. I love being a black man. People notice me. Women of all types and colour approach me, wherever I go in the world, because I smile, and I am confident. To me, being black is a huge advantage.
You seem to see your colour as a disadvantage. That is your issue, not anyone else's. You cannot claim that your failure so far to find a special man is down to 70 per cent of black women being single, and black women being the least desirable. You are avoiding your issue. You haven't found a special man because it just hasn't happened for you yet. What are you doing about it, other than complaining? Have you tried working on the one thing that makes you attractive? YOU?. You could be the hottest woman in the world, but if you are miserable about yourself, who would want to date you?
A game wont get you a date, or make you feel better. Maybe spending some time coming to terms with the real you, and showing that 'you' off to the world would be more profitable.
If you continue to believe that the world is against you, and the only reason is down to your colour, you will never be happy.
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 February 2010):
Danny DeVito... hahaha.. he's as ugly as sin, very funny, very vulnerable, and everytime I see him I just want to cuddle him and take him away.
Perfect husband material, and that fact that he's short and ugly, turns itself around and makes him so very special and unique in my eyes... yep, funny enough but I think I could do the dirty with this short ugly white guy, who seems to have a heart as big as the world.
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 February 2010):
I miss Paulie.. :(
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 February 2010):
I miss Paulie.. :(
...............................
A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (8 February 2010):
Hi SLTaylor,
I was intrigued by your title. I hate to pass up a game. But I'm dismayed at the choices. Any way you wnt guys input so here goes:
1 Eva Mendez I saw her in Ghost rider. That character had a mix of vulnerability and strength that I found attractive. Very feminine. As far as body shape and beauty, she is "easy on the eyes". Not a real attention grabber.
2 Kate Winslet I haven't seen her in a movie. I did a quick check at net flix. I'm not real attracted to her face. The red hair on the titanic box cover caught my eye. And to Caring Guy I like curveyer.
3 Halle Berry She is one of the hottest. I remember her most from Cat Woman. That movie was written to showcase her. Again a strong female lead like Angelina Jolie. I think that her athleticism is part of the attraction. I'd be more attracted to the athlete than the cheerleader.
4 Luci Lui Yes I was attracted to her in Charlies Angles, Unfortunately my eyes were all for Drew Barrymore. And between the two I know who I like to watch most. Drew has all the right curves. And that cute and innocent baby face that is irresistible.
5 Zoe Saldana I just saw Avatar, spent significant portions of the movie hiding my face. I don't like heights that much. Netflix says I saw Zoe as Uhura in Star trek. I got to say that tall thin women don't do it for me even Michelle Pfeiffer. Perhaps it's leftover anti basketball prejudice from high school.
Hey where is Queen Latifa? My favorite Black woman actress. She is Bold and positive and refuses to be passed over.
OK now that we compared the looks of professional actresses with a whole staff to keep them picture perfect. What about short men. It's a fact that 70% of men are shorter than the other 30%. And you didn't list Danny DeVito.
Keep up the good work
FA
...............................
A
female
reader, veronika  +, writes (8 February 2010):
 Out of the guys... I would choose Brad.
From a physical point of view, he's got chiseled good looks and a great body (the others probably do too, but he's the one I find most attractive out of all of them in terms of physical features).
But that's not to say I have a preference for that in real life. Just out of those 5 you gave me.
...............................
A
male
reader, CaringGuy +, writes (8 February 2010):
Kate Winslet because she has curves.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (8 February 2010): Hi. White chick here. I'm sorry I'm not going to follow the rules exactly, but if i had a bigger choice--say you offered me um, Baron Vaughn instead of Will Smith or Taye Diggs, then I'd choose Baron Vaughn over these other guys. I had a crush on Will Smith when I was a kid and I think I've finally outgrown him. Just looked at a picture of Taye Diggs and he's too much like a perfect Ken for me to even consider being with. Never been into that kinda guy in any shade. Perfection is boring. But Baron Vaughn is very attractive to me, and I'd choose him over Brad Pitt. Pitt's cute, but I only now find him somewhat fascinating because his face and mannerisms remind me slighly of my ex. Alex Rodriguez isn't that cute to me. If you were offering me a choice between him and a guy that I know in real life who is hot and who is from Mexico, I'd pick my hot mexican friend over Bradd Pitt even. There are attractive and unattractive people in all races all over the world. It's the symmetry of the face combined with the special quirks of a person that make them attractive or not to me...not race. I think your question is too broad to truly prove a point, but I guess you can read into the answers as much as you can,(especially if no one wants Halle) to help you believe your argument.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 February 2010): Will smith / jet li, and Halle berry
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 February 2010):
I miss Paulie.. sigh.. :(
...............................
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 February 2010):
sltaylor, you are an absolute star.. yep, that black woman post got a bit heated, and I totally love this new having fun thing.. lol... now how do I play.. :)
I only know Brad Pitt and Will Smith. Both of them are physically attractive, and both of them are funny men who like to play off screen. I'm going with Will though. One because he's skin is smoother, two because he's faithful and aint dumped Jen, and three because he's got good brains and I think Brad is a bubble head, even though he's still gorgeous.
PS: Why didn't (Larry) Lawrence Fishbourne and Paul Newman make your list.. and don't tell me Paulie is dead, medical science gets things wrong all the time..
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 February 2010): Will smith...because he's hot and an all around good guy. :) mal
...............................
|
