A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I've been with my boyfriend for a while now, almost two years. We've had our fights, but never anything bad, we always make up, we know we love each other very much and would never intentionally try to hurt each other. He wants to get married after college, and I know he's the one for me, but recently there has been some things he's said that make me worry.As a background, I'm agnostic, I think. I don't really know what, because I don't think I'll know what's really out there till I die, but I respect all religions, I just have doubts of my own I guess.He's a christian, he goes to church, and he used to go to a bible study. We're ok with each other believing in different things, but he's also said some things.One time, he said he was disappointed that I'll be going to hell and he'll be going to heaven, because he wants me to be with him... (I don't think he meant to sound so rude about it though...)And he is very openly against homosexuality, and he's often said that most gay people are just "looking for attention". I'm not ok with that at all, especially because my best friends are all gay (I have 3 best friends) and they aren't attention seekers (Well, one is, he's an acting addict and a bit of a drama seeker, but we still love him) None of them are the type that would seem "sinful" to me, and they are all nice people.I want my best friend and her girlfriend to be my bridesmaids, but how can I do that when he is against homosexuality? I love him to death, and other than that, he's the sweetest person ever... It's just... Sometimes he's rude about his religion, I guess.What do I do? I don't want to break up with him, though, because he's an amazing guy for the most part... So please don't suggest that...
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2012): Wow. So many people here are incapable of following directions. She asked for advice about how to get her bf and gay friends to be closer and accepting. She even went so far as to say she doesn't want to be told to leave him. She then went so far as to ask that everyone stop talking bad about him, and yet the level of intolerance for his beliefs from the people of this site is astounding. She hasn't said anything that would indicate him being anything like what you describe. And to call him a bigot hiding under the cloak of religion is disrespectful to her, her boyfriend, and to all religious persons.
Since very few people can follow directions, I'll tell you this. He's not going overboard, and of you want them to get along, go to places together. If they already get along, what makes you think he'd be unhappy with them at the wedding? Try talking with him and see if he really can accept you for what you are, and if he can't, THEN and only THEN should you think he's even remotely what these horrible posters are saying. When did having a religious side immediatelyean someone is a bigot? Good luck, miss.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2012): I really can't see this working. It goes deeper than 'I want my best friends to be my bridesmaids'.
You two have clashing viewpoints and there isn't any way of finding middle ground. There can't be a compromise if he thinks that 'sinners' go to hell and you are best friends with 'sinners'. The only way to resolve this is for you to agree with his viewpoint or for him to agree to yours. I can't see him discarding his beliefs any time soon.
If you do end up married, will your gay friends be able to come to your new home? Will your husband welcome them into your house? Will you be able to do things that he may consider immoral, which he perhaps tolerates now? How will decisions about raisng children be made?
I know it's not what you want to hear, but if his religion is a big part of who he is, how are you two going to make a couple? I had a friend in college who was christian. Lovely woman, very sweet, but with some very strange views. She told one of the staff at the college that they were damned for eternity for having a child out of wedlock. She wore what I thought was a cute broach (a pair of tiny feet) and when I asked about it, she explained that it was a replica of the feet of a foetus at the maximum abortion age! It showed people how abhorrent abortion was.
We also had a talk about relationships and she told me that as a christian she wouldn't be able to be with someone who didn't share her faith. It was such a big part of her life and who she was that the idea of dating someone non-christian, would mean that she had to keep a large part of herself separate and she couldn't do that.
A relationship is built on trust, mutual understanding and compromise. Unless you convert you will only ever have the first one.
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A
male
reader, idoneitagain  +, writes (5 November 2012):
I think it is important that a couple can negotiate their differences, in fact, it is vital for a successful relationship. In the same way that you are accepting of him not tolerating gays, he needs to be able to accept that you are accepting of gays, more than that, that your best friends are gay. It is important to any bride to be that her best friends be her bridesmaids, and as such your friends should be there for you as your chosen bridesmaids. This is your big day, remember, as much as it is his big day too, and these are people you love. He doesn't have to agree with thier sexuality, but he has to accept them as part of your life, as people you love and as people you want to be there to share in the love between you and your boyfriend. If not, how is your relationship going to work, are you prepared to forsake your friends?
Another two key aspect to having a successful relationship are communication, and being able to stand up for yourself when it really matters. Speak to him about this issue, about your fears, and about what you want and need. If you are not able to speak to him about what you need, and he is not able to give you what you need in the relationship, you probably aren't ready for marriage. Its only by being able to negotiate the difficult territory that you learn whether you are in the right relationship, and whether it can really stand the test of time.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (5 November 2012):
 OP,
The issue for me isn't that he tolerates homosexuality or not. The issue is that he sees you as going to hell.
I don't think you realize just what kind of statement that is. Sure, he may not be some whacko activist that crashes funerals with hate speech, but here's the real problem:
He will consider your beliefs corrosive to your children if you have any. You don't realize what kind of indoctrination Christians, especially very demonstrative non-denominational fundamentalist believers have. It's easy to say "Hate the sin and love the sinner", but that's because the person isn't married to the non-believer.
Do you think he'll consider you in any way, shape or form as an equal contributor in raising his kids? No way! You're going to hell, remember? He doesn't want his kids to go to hell, so he will override you. In fact, you will probably be used as an example of how NOT to behave. He'll justify this because he doesn't want his kids to go to hell, and he'll entertain absolutely no open mind when it comes to how his kids will be raised. To him, overriding your parenting is a matter of eternal life and eternal death.
The funny thing is, you'll actually give way to that. Look here now! You're hesitating on whether or not to invite your own dear friends to participate in your wedding because he won't tolerate it.
The only way this will work is if you convert, pray the prayer of salvation, and become a believer in his way. The fact that you're agnostic means that you are open to that possibility in order to keep him.
I do not think that all Christians are bad, and that Christianity is this horrible institution. However, it's an incompatible institution between a Christian and a non-Christian, unless either the Christian is in name only, or the non-Christian embraces Christianity.
He is adamant about his religion, and that doesn't bode well. You said that you worry, yet you're fighting with all your might here now with us to justify his behavior. Which is it? Do you worry, or do you accept that once you marry him, you're going to be expected to take on a Christianized role of his wife...the Proverbs 31 woman?
You're worrying because you're seeing glimpses of the real him now. His religion mandates that HE is the head of your household, and that your role is to submit to his direction to your household. Of course, he is loving and amazing, but he'll see any belief you hold that's contrary to Christianity, like homosexuality or letting your children choose their own paths in religion as outright threats to the type of family he wants. His personality is stronger than yours, and he will strongarm that belief into being the ONLY belief in the household.
You and the anonymous male may think I'm being harsh, but my background, upbringing, ministry experience has seen this happen over and over and over and over again. I don't hate Christianity, but their training to be separate from the world makes it extremely incompatible and impossible for them to accept into their own family any sort of questioning of God's existence, like you are now. Why do you think he talked about you going to hell? Is it because he'll happily accept you, or because he intends to "save" you after you're married?
Food for thought here. My view on this might be stark and may come off as harsh, but I challenge anyone here from a strict fundamental non-denominational background to refute what I'm saying.
As for you going to hell, I can't speak to that, but I've seen people who don't follow the formulaic fundamentalist belief system who act kinder, more honest, and more Christian than many Christians do.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2012): "He just has strong ties to religion because it helped him when he needed it most, so it's a big thing for him."
His being "religious" does not give him license to be a bigot hiding under the cloak of "religion" who is therefore intolerant of those he arbitrarily deems "sinners" and therefore not worthy of his "approval" because his beliefs are incompatible with theirs.
"Like I said, I don't want to break up with him. And he really is a nice person, but he's like a lot of people who believe what they were told"
Unfortunately, what he "was told" and therefore believes is not compatible with what you have discovered and learned for yourself from your gay friends. I respectfully suggest that may possibly fall under the category of "irreconcilable differences."
"I just want to know what I'm supposed to do to get him to be more tolerant and nice to my friends."
You can't "get him to" do anything which he would not be inclined to do otherwise, and so you most certainly can't "get" a bigot hiding under the cloak of "religion" who is intolerant of your gay friends to be "more tolerant" and "nice to" to those he deems to be "sinners" because that's what he "was told."
"I just don't want them to not get along at the wedding."
Then your choices are don't invite your gay friends to your wedding or don't marry a bigot hiding under the cloak of "religion" who is intolerant of your gay friends.
"I also never said he didn't allow them to come to the wedding. I just said he doesn't approve of gays and he thinks homosexuality is a sin."
He never said he didn't allow them to come to the wedding, he just said in effect that he won't tolerate their participation or even their presence, which I assume that
he assumes that you assume that you should know enough not to invite your gay friends in the first place.
"I don't want advice to leave him or that he's a bad match, I just want to know how to make him see that they are nice people and I want them to get along. :( "
Unfortunately, you are asking for the impossible. He will NEVER see that your gay friends are "nice people" because he "was told" they are "sinners" so that's what he believes (your logic, not mine), and he will NEVER "get along" with your gay friends because he "was told" they are "sinners" so that's what he believes (your logic, not mine).
Honoring your pre-exclusions regarding the advice you don't want, following is the best advice I can offer:
Hopefully you won't disagree with or be offended by above advice.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2012): Im the OP.
Please don't talk about him like that. He's not overly religious like some westrbo baptist person, so don't treat him like that. He just has strong ties to religion because it helped him when he needed it most, so it's a big thing for him.
Like I said, I don't want to break up with him. And he really is a nice person, but he's like a lot of people who believe what they were told and I just want to know what I'm supposed to do to get him to be more tolerant and nice to my friends. I just don't want them to not get along at the wedding.
I also never said he didn't allow them to come to the wedding. I just said he doesn't approve of gays and he thinks homosexuality is a sin.
I don't want advice to leave him or that he's a bad match, I just want to know how to make him see that they are nice people and I want them to get along. :(
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (4 November 2012):
 You say you ".. love him to death"... but the rest of your submittal describes a pontificating religious freak who points out - rather flagrantly - just what a sinner you (and your friends) are.... Is that REALLY the kind of person that you could/would/should make a life with?????
How about finding someone who doesn't have a "religion" to fall back on to justify his own prejudices? And, someone who is open-minded enough to believe that it's not HIS IMAGINARY FRIEND who determines what is right and wrong in this world... but it is people, and how they behave toward one-another that makes this world a wonderful - or, miserable - place????
Good luck with your NEXT "boyfriend".....
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 November 2012): OP have you actually stopped to consider your future?
I mean are your kids going to be raised strictly in his faith and to also believe that gays are an abomination?
Do you want your kids to grow up thinking their mother is going to hell and question the very fabric of who you are because you're not a believer and you choose to be friends with sinners?
Do you honestly believe he'd be willing to allow his kids to go to hell too and not believe in his faith?
You won't get a say in the matter, think you will? Then you honestly don't get that his faith comes before you and always will.
Your kids are going to be raised as homophobic and intolerant as he is.
OP you say he's the one for you, but it seems to me you're the one for him in the sense that he's the boss and what he says goes.
I mean this is your wedding too and he's seriously allowed to dictate that your best friends can't be there because they're gay?
What do you do? Nothing because there is nothing you can do, his love for Jesus will always come first, when it comes down to decisions based on his faith and beliefs you will always come second. So you either convert, get rid of your "sinner" friends and tow the line or you face a life of always being at odds with your future husband on everything. Watch as your kids go to mass and are raised to believe things you are wholly against because OP unless he can compromise and water down his beliefs somewhat then you have a future of always being an outsider in his eyes.
The only hope you have OP is to assert yourself in this relationship, to assert your beliefs too. Talk to him and ask him to respect you enough and your beliefs enough not to question your choice in friends, not to openly criticize them or treat them any differently because of their sexuality.
You also need to have a long discussion about what marriage actually means to both of you, how any future kids will be raised and what kind of say you will have in that. Because I'm like you OP, until someone can give me solid proof of something I'm not going to believe in an all powerful ghost who dictated something 2000 years ago and hasn't even bothered to do anything since, so my beliefs in raising kids would be to let them make their own choices when they're older and indoctrinating them into a religion as children to be raised intolerant of others, to be judgemental and closed minded is not something I could tolerate. If he can't give you that then what kind of future do you have OP?
You'll be an outsider to your own kids. You need to find out whether you're truly on the same page as far as your lives, your marriage and your future are concerned. If he can't compromise then you're just going to end up unhappy, passionate love cannot cover over fundamental differences of life view forever OP.
There has to be a common ground or you will just end up being forced into a marriage between you, him and jesus, and jesus is going to have the final say in everything that matters.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (4 November 2012):
 I won't try to talk you out of leaving him.... but let me ask you this... do you want children you have raised to hate their mother's friends? and believe that their mom is going to hell?
because that is how this man will raise HIS children...
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (4 November 2012): Hello. I think YouWish may be reacting a bit harsh towards your bf and is making unfair judgments about who he is and what he'll do in the future. I say this because I know where he's coming from. I'm a Christian also. I grew up with the same beliefs and the same sermons, so I know exactly which scriptures are nagging at him, and YouWish is right in the quotes she used. That said, I was once against homosexuals (I grew up with it being depicted as gross as I guess most little kids did/do). As I got older, I saw it less as gross and merely as something to avoid. Unequally yoked doesn't just refer to marriage. But by the time I was a junior or senior in high school, I realized that they can be very fun people to hang around. I have a number of female friends that are either lesbian or bi, and I consider them some of my best friends. I wouldn't bar them from my wedding. I love them. One in particular has given me great advice during a tough time in my current relationship and we've come to jokingly nickname each other mom and son. I will say this. I don't have any male friends who are gay (not on purpose, just haven't come across any), but I will admit that idea is a bit weird to me cause I've had girl-friends hit on me and I didn't appreciate that as I was/am still dating someone, and I'd rather not deal with that with a guy.
As far as my beliefs, they know and understand that Im against homosexuality as a lifestyle, and wouldn't be able to attend their weddings (if they go to states allowing it), but I've never tried to convert them or anything extremist or silly like that. And they understand that and respect my stance. It's never affected our relationship, and I've met their gfs and given helpful advice to them too. Not all Christians are intolerant extremists. You know your bf more than I do. Is he that kind of person? And as for how to raise kids, it's notblike you're Jewish or Muslim and he's forcibly choosing their religion. As an agnostic, it shouldn't bother you if he wants them to go to church once a week. My fiancé is catholic (I'm Adventist) and we do have our spats once in a while (as differing views on anything will bring up), but I've never forced her to do anything she's never forced me. When we discuss our kids, we compromised.
I'm not gonna lie to you. He's gonna want you to be Christian, but that stems from concern for you (whether or not that concern is warranted is not the topic for this so I won't discuss that), but he really shouldn't say you'd go to hell. I know how he meant it to sound, but it doesn't come off that way. I suggest you just talk to him about your bridesmaids and tell him these are your friends, you love them, they mean a lot to you, and you want them to be at your wedding. He does deserve a say, but only of it's cause they hate him or something, otherwise there's no reason to not let them be your bridesmaids. I wouldn't have a best man my gf doesn't like, cause it's her special day too. Just like it's his for your wedding.
I think you should try and get him used to the idea of being "friends" with homosexuals. When you have a view of a group pushed on you by the media, scriptures, and even public opinion separate from church, etc. it can skew your idea of them get together with him and your lesbian friends. Try to see if they can become friends too. If my experience is any indication, he'll come around. Lesbian friends are the best friends for a straight guy. No sexual tension, and you can give relationship advice from the same perspective. Good luck.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (4 November 2012):
Do you have any idea what kind of life you're about to have with him?? If you're worried that he won't accept your gay friends at your wedding, then wait until after you're married and he'll expect you to submit yourself to him "as unto the Lord".
He also is not qualified to know nor to speak about where you go when you die, because in HIS Bible, it's dead clear that only God can judge the state of a man. Many people who arrogantly believe they're in God's favor will be told "I never knew you". He is in error when he tells you where HE thinks you'll end up.
And that's just it. He judges you harshly, and that's not good when you go to a marriage. He's *not* okay with you believing different things, or you would never have to ask this question on here in the first place, as he would happily accept your choice of who you wish to honor.
He's going to cut you off from your gay friends. He's going to cut you off from anything that he is intolerant of. In fact, if he's this adamant that he thinks you're "going to hell", he'll cut you off from your very beliefs and forcibly through unending pressure try and convert you to Christianity. I'll tell you why:
His bible tells him to "Not be unequally yoked with an unbeliever". This means, he's forbidden to marry a non-Christian. His way of justifying it is to put on a mask of tolerance before you marry him, then bait and switch you afterwards. He thinks he'll be your Spiritual head and thus control you into fitting his "equally yoked" mandate. How do I know this? Because he's told you he thinks you're going to hell and he's going to heaven. This means that you're wrong, he's right, and he'll break you because he thinks he's saving your eternal soul. He also shows zero tolerance for openmindedness to homosexuality, and by proxy, your choice in friends.
You're in for a rough ride that will end in divorce if you continue with him, unless you're ready to drop your homosexual friends forever and become an enthusiastic, churchgoing on-fire Christian.
Think I'm wrong? I grew up in an ultra-conservative environment. There is no room for non-believers. I've seen the pressure that anyone who doesn't believe is put through, and eventually "God" will tell him to leave you because you're threatening HIS eternal future. Not only that, but do you honestly think he'll let you have any input into the Spiritual path your kids will take? Nope. He'll undermine you as a mother because he doesn't want his kids to go to hell.
Seriously. When the lovey dovey "he's amazing" feelings subside, you're going to remember vividly what I'm saying to you.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (4 November 2012): that's unfortunate he feels that way about homosexuality and your closest friends, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions, i suppose.
you say that you two really respect each others differing perspectives, but honestly, if that were the case, this shouldn't really be an issue. if he really respected how you felt, you having a couple of gay bridesmaids would never even cross his mind as a problem. besides, what's he so afraid of, anyway? does he think having a couple of gay chicks at your wedding will bring sin upon everybody? i mean, it's completely unfounded and ridiculous. jesus preached acceptance and not to cast judgements. he hung out with prostitutes, for "christs" sake (pun intended).
i don't think he should have a say in who you choose to be your bridesmaids. he needs to respect you and who you choose to have as those special people in your wedding. i sure wouldn't want someone telling me i couldn't have my best friends as my bridesmaids during my wedding day. just as i'm sure he wouldn't want you to tell him he couldn't have his best friend(s) as the best man. it's very unfair.
i would try and approach him gently about it. ask him to please be respectful of your differences in opinion. and since you love him enough to marry him, and he loves you enough to marry you, let this be your first compromise.
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