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male
age
26-29,
*1228
writes:hi, im 14 and an atheist but i respect religious people who are open to another persons point of view, but the other side of that coin is that ignorance and single mindedness makes me really really angry. i just dont understand religion, i mean no disrespect, but i dont see how religion does the world any good, people are in therapy because their parents made them feel like they were going to burn in hell for masturbating, psychos blowing people up because "god told me to do it", people dying because its a sin to get a blood transfusion, teens turning into screwed up adults because their religion hates condoms and birth control and abortion and adoption, so they need to raise the kid themselves even though they dont know shit about parenting, then the kid makes some dumbass decisions and the cycle begins again, i believe in the right to freedom of religion, expression, marrying whoever you love, the right to choose, and alot of conservative christians say they are the real americans even when they vote on things that make people who believe differently less and less free. so please, someone explain to me why i am forced to put up with this crap, and why it should be put up with.kasey
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female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (17 February 2010):
 ahahahaha... bharat mehta no way.. that's not the right books for him.. Throw out AYN RAND, the woman is immoral, sartre is good, but too difficult to understand.
Read J.S Mills "on liberty", he will explain why you have a right to your views, but why you also have to tolerate others. The bible is a very good read, a bit long, but it's full of history, drama, battles and lots and lots of sinners. Best to pick up a general introduction to philosophy, they will explain the historical importance of relgion and defence and critisms against it... Science was created out of religion and the scientific method is rooted in "natural laws".. you can't discard religion so easily, it's necessary to understand it, so you know more about the world you live in.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (17 February 2010):
Thanks for appologising young man, I was a little upset with you. A rude closed mind judgemental atheist is as bad as a rude closed minded judgemental christian. This is one world and we all got to get along with our different beliefs. Your an atheist, so am I. The correct response is to tell religious people that and ask them to stop preaching to you.
Also it's very good as an atheist to study ALL religions. Then you will know what they believe and will be able to defend your views a lot easier. Atheism dosen't mean anger or ignorance, it just means no belief in any gods.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2010): Rhythm and Blues has obviously forgotten what it's like to be young. What's so great about authority anyway? The only people who have ever achieved anything important have had to step out of it in some sense. Religion is horrible when used to control others. It is not law, but a personal choice, and one that I somewhat, sort of, a little bit, respect, despite being an Atheist as well. High school, (I assume maybe you're a Freshman) is such an amazing time in your life to explore these things, and feel passionately about them. Recognizing the confinement of depending solely on religion and what we are told is true is essential. As you get older, you'll learn more and have more experiences that will inform your opinion. "Adolescents" are great, and putting them down is incredibly ignorant.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 February 2010): The things that you mention as distortions of what relgion is really all about: people get hold of ideas (some taught by churches, unfortunately) and then run with them, out of a sense of self-righteousness or feeling threated as to what will happen if "they" don't oppose certain things......
Personally, I believe in a loving, caring God who caused the cosmos to come into being through the Big Bang, and then allowed life to develop over millennia through evolution.
My understanding is that this same God wants and calls us into relationship with Himself/Herself and to be willing to listen to the promptings of our hearts and intuition; to be open to what others have to say, and to develop the ability to sense when something is a load of you-know-what, or if it has the ring of truth. And there are many ways to learn: books, writings by scientists; even good fiction, and poetry. What do you feel when you see a beautiful sunset, for instance, or listen to music that really moves you? It's worth paying attention to experiences like that!
Don't be afraid to ask questions, either and to doubt! That's the way to learn and grow.
There is much that's good and beautiful about this world, but also much that is terribly wrong: folk who got riches and wealth by cheating and embezzling their clients' money, and thereby leaving almost bankrupt; child trafficking and pornography; people in third world countries who suffer the effects of war, oppression and hunger and disease; people who use others for sex - as sex objects, without respecting them as human beings. You can think of much else, I'm sure!
Jesus taught that we are to do everything we can to work to set right what is wrong in this world. He also taught that after his death he would be resurrected and that at some point God would intervene to renew the earth in such a way that everyone would live in peace and joy. But the authorities of his time felt threatened by such teaching: they didn't want to give up the power they had, and they were scared that the Romans would destroy them if they didn't go along with the status quo(read some history about the Roman empire for more on this). Because he refused to back down and stood for his beliefs, Jesus was put to death.
Think of Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement in the sixties in this country - and maybe you've studied it in school. There's someone else who refused to give in to the powers that wanted to keep racial segregation and treat black people as unequal (refusing them the right to vote, to mention just one example). Because Martin too, threatened them by his position (even though he did not use violence, he was killed for it.
Lastly, its not a do-it-alone project - this business of working to right wrongs, that is, and certainly not something to be "holier than thou" about and to think we have all the answers! - but it is best done in community, a good church congregation that is committed to trying, is open and welcoming.
Good for you, keep on trucking!
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 February 2010): The things that you mention as distortions of what relgion is really all about: people get hold of ideas (some taught by churches, unfortunately) and then run with them, out of a sense of self-righteousness or feeling threated as to what will happen if "they" don't oppose certain things......
Personally, I believe in a loving, caring God who caused the cosmos to come into being through the Big Bang, and then allowed life to develop over millennia through evolution.
My understanding is that this same God wants and calls us into relationship with Himself/Herself and to be willing to listen to the promptings of our hearts and intuition; to be open to what others have to say, and to develop the ability to sense when something is a load of you-know-what, or if it has the ring of truth. And there are many ways to learn: books, writings by scientists; even good fiction, and poetry. What do you feel when you see a beautiful sunset, for instance, or listen to music that really moves you? It's worth paying attention to experiences like that!
Don't be afraid to ask questions, either and to doubt! That's the way to learn and grow.
There is much that's good and beautiful about this world, but also much that is terribly wrong: folk who got riches and wealth by cheating and embezzling their clients' money, and thereby leaving almost bankrupt; child trafficking and pornography; people in third world countries who suffer the effects of war, oppression and hunger and disease; people who use others for sex - as sex objects, without respecting them as human beings. You can think of much else, I'm sure!
Jesus taught that we are to do everything we can to work to set right what is wrong in this world. He also taught that after his death he would be resurrected and that at some point God would intervene to renew the earth in such a way that everyone would live in peace and joy. But the authorities of his time felt threatened by such teaching: they didn't want to give up the power they had, and they were scared that the Romans would destroy them if they didn't go along with the status quo(read some history about the Roman empire for more on this). Because he refused to back down and stood for his beliefs, Jesus was put to death.
Think of Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement in the sixties in this country - and maybe you've studied it in school. There's someone else who refused to give in to the powers that wanted to keep racial segregation and treat black people as unequal (refusing them the right to vote, to mention just one example). Because Martin too, threatened them by his position (even though he did not use violence, he was killed for it.
Lastly, its not a do-it-alone project - this business of working to right wrongs, that is, and certainly not something to be "holier than thou" about and to think we have all the answers! - but it is best done in community, a good church congregation that is committed to trying, is open and welcoming.
Good for you, keep on trucking!
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reader, k1228 +, writes (12 February 2010):
k1228 is verified as being by the original poster of the question i was angry when i wrote this question, and when i get angry i tend to be more extreme in my way of thinking, i now realize that i also contradict myself when im angry, i said i respected religion, but i then said some very disrespectful things about it, but i guess through doing this i learned that noone is always right, i guess that people will believe what they believe and if im not directly affected i shouldnt be worried.
thank you for all your answers.
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female
reader, Laura1318  +, writes (12 February 2010):
 God gives us a mind to think and to choose whether we want to believed in Him or not. No one takes a gun and point at your head to chose to believed in God.
I don't think it is right for anyone to force someone to follow God against his conscience. Religion is a free will and not a compulsion..
In some Muslim countries(Malaysia), you are born into that religion and you cannot get out of it.Religion is used as a weapon to control the mass.
The choice is yours to make and chose wisely.Someday you will understand when your time comes.
I chose to believed in God because I feel the peace and the tranquility which is most important in my life.
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reader, Kassi (Nova)  +, writes (12 February 2010):
 I understand where you're coming from, but I totally disagree. I used to think I was an athiest (someone who rejects the belief that dieties exist) until I realized that I do believe in something. I am an agnostic. I believe bits and pieces from all religions, but don't dedicate myself from any one.
Religion is the act of having faith. Religions have rules, they have belief systems. The part I dislike about religions is that in the past few centuries, people have picked out parts of religions they didn't like and called it a new religion (or version of that religion). Either you can follow your religion wholly, or you can't. It seems pretty black-and-white to me.
And yes, people do some stupid things in the name of religion, but you'll find that most of the time, those extremists took it into their own hands to misinterpret their religions, and that murder, for example, is a damnable act- even if it is in the name of their God.
Ultimately, the only thing about religion I find hard to live with is that people constantly try to push theirs on me, and I feel that in so doing, they are disprespecting my beliefs. As irritating as it may be, it will never go away. Closed mindedness and ignorant violence aside, religions aren't so terrible. You just need to learn to be accepting of others, and tell them when you feel like your beliefs are being disrespected.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 February 2010): Think about it, Religion is an alternative way of thinking to science,I mean noone knows why there's only life on earth and not on anyother planet. Why can't there be higher forces? There are lots of mysteries yet unsolved, also some people are just extreme in their views of religion, they've probably been thrust into it very strongly from an early age so you have to forgive them for being a bit ignorant.
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reader, Not My Name  +, writes (12 February 2010):
 Religion in it's purest form is not the problem imo. We are all spiritual beings as far as I am concerned no matter what labels and dogma's we want to apply for ourselves.
On the whole tho, religions generally mean well, all have the basic concept of instilling the belief of an after life which is very comforting to a lot of people - especially when bereaved or facing death themselves, have basically good principles at their core that are usually about being better people to each other and our selves, ..and none of that is a bad thing.
The problem is that some people took the basic principles, structured them too much, used fear based teachings to bend others to their/their churches will, (screwing with some peoples head's and their sense of worthyness, guilt etc in the process) and then a whole pile of misinterpretation, stories that may have ended up twisted like a chinese whisper before ending up in religious text, and a bit of brainwashing in some instances to boot, ...and that is how we end up with people thinking their god wants them to kill people with opposing views. etc, etc.
It is not the fundamental principle of the religions at fault, ..that came from some of the individuals who ran away with themselves after reading it and started deciding for themselves what they think 'god' wants, then imposed it upon others.
All religions have somethng to offer tho, so my motto is take from each what is useful to you and discard anything that does not make sense to your logic or reason. No need to pick one and believe it blindly imo.
I am officially a Spiritualist, but have taken courses in Buddhism, dabbled in Hinduism, believe there was once a good man called Jesus who tried to teach good lessons, ... I just don't get caught up in the dogma or thinking one is exclusively right or wrong over another. I don;t need to answer to any god, nor fear one, ..I am way better at kicking my own arse than anyone so answering to myself is all the prompting I require to try to be a better person.
If others need or want that structure of rules and to place construction around their thoughts, that is fine, I leave em to it and don't worry about it. You should try it :-)
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reader, Accountable +, writes (12 February 2010):
 I dont think you are being "closeminded" or "judgemental", as some of the aunts here have suggested. As far as I am concerned these are valid points, and I've always wondered how people justify organised religion with these kind of situations in mind. Its good to question these matters, it helps us understand the world more fully.
I personally feel individual faith or spirituality is absolutely fine, and commendable, as long as nobody tries to enforce their own beliefs as a general rule - I have friends who are christian, but they don't brand me as evil because I am an atheist who supports things like abortion, which are condemned by their church. I think its also fairly important to consider the fact that atheism is, itself, a form of faith - we have no proof that God does not exist, you (and i) are just choosing to believe he does not exist. So it makes no sense for us to force that view on anyone else, and atheism can also lead to some fairly unpalatable situations.
I do agree with the general gist of what the aunts are saying, in some cases - some people would find any excuse to act in the ways you have outlined here, religion is just one tool they use as justification. But i also can't help but imagine what the world would be like without the social stigma attached to certain things (homosexuality, for example) due to religious influences so strongly ingrained in our societies, and wonder whether we would be better off without it. I think maybe the problem lies in the far-reaching effect religion has had on our society's conscience over the years - beliefs/morals which are now practically inherent in our way of thinking, even though rationally they may not make sense to the non-religious anymore.
It is a very complex issue - its difficult to argue that you are both for free will and freedom of choice regarding beliefs, but also condemn certain religious practices. My own stance is that I will tolerate pretty much anything that doesnt infringe on another persons freedom/personal wellbeing (look up JS Mill's political philosophy if you're interested, I'm referring to his "Liberty or Harm Principle" in particular). So no, I don't think its right that religion is used to justify acts which my own moral code disagrees with, but its also easy to see some of religions benefits to society; it helps people deal with things like death, addiction, whatever, and maybe thats reason enough to "put up with it"? I don't know, I'm not sure anyone can give a definitive answer. Just keep thinking Kasey! :)
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reader, Illithid +, writes (12 February 2010):
 Stupid people will be stupid people with or without a reason. You don't need to be religious in order to be screwed up any more than you need video games to bring guns to school. There are christians, buddhists, agnostics, atheists, and everything on the spectrum that turn to rape, murder, or screwed up childhoods. Many people use "God" as an EXCUSE to do things they already wanted to do anyway. Besides that, it's the radically stupid that draw the most attention. There are many CEOs that are careful, moral, and of the utmost integrity, but all we see on the news is Enron.
In the end, I think the issue here is Religion vs. Spirituality. There are many spiritually strong christians that are wonderful people (including some very dear friends of mine on this very site), but not because they're in some particular church, just because they have a relationship with God in their personal lives. Religion, on the other hand, as an organization and even sometimes simply as a business, attracts the power hungry and corrupt just like any other organization, and more than a few end up being nut jobs.
Tell me, have you ever met a crazy vegetarian, or tree hugger, or someone so single minded in their political choice they get irrational, or any other obsessed person who's a bit... off? It's easy to blame god for his followers, but people are just people.
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reader, bharat mehta  +, writes (12 February 2010):
 You prove me true. I always think new generation, which you represent, is more intellectual, and more mature then us: I am around sixties. At your age, I am sure I was totally unable to think, the way you are thinking, and sure reading such serious subject. You are really light of this site, and I love respect your talent.
The sexual problem you listed are truly belong to religious vision. Sexual-spiritual problem are intellectually treated in the field of philosophy. And, to held human sexuality as 'original sin' is religious. I am not saying it is only Christianity. Religion as such think the theory of 'original sin'. Hindus, in spite of great philosophy, are more religious than Muslim and christian. Yes, some Christian theologists like St. Thomas Aquinas is great who brought Age Of Enlightenment and reason, in Western Europe's history.
General people have no grasp about spiritual aspect of human sex. They do not know anything about spirituality, that it consists of all reason, logic, freedom of the mind, of thought, of ideas. etc etc.
You are great at your age, so I suggest you to read AYN RAND'S philosophy, which will give you so much, for which you have talent. She is a high ideal, she is world's first female philosopher, who has deal with philosophy in quite scientific mode. Most of the philosopher, like Sartre, or even female like Simon D Beauvoir slipped in to mysticism.
Your modern world need philosophy, and not religion. I live all my life in Philosophy, but amongst religious orthodox so I know both side. Religion begin with Perceptual Vision, equal to animal's vision, and deny to develop further up to conceptual level, is problem with religion. Philosophy develop the science of vision, and open the door for science, technology, trading, industries...all civilized mode of life.
I heartly wish you best of luck for your future.
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reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (12 February 2010):
 Kasey,
You are certainly not alone in your ideas. What exactly are you suggesting should be done? It seems that you want to dictate what religions should teach. On one hand you claim to respect religious people. Then you turn around and say that certain ideas should not be allowed. There exists, in the united states a group that is trying to eliminate the open practice or expression of religious belief. Liberty is their middle name. Ironic, isn't it. My point is that you can't respect others beliefs when you want to tell them what exactly those beliefs should be.
FA
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 February 2010): You have the logic of a child. First off, religion doesn't have much to do with the list of things that you describe. I agree that the far religious right are quite out there, but you have to realize that people who murder doctors who perform abortions and crazy things like that are not a representative of anything other than a very small group of fanatics. It really is "people that do horrible things" and I would have to say that these folks are not the norm and probably suffer from mental illness and do not behave out of religious belief, but out of illness.It is idiotic to toss out all religion based on a few. I think you are too young to close your mind to faith, because that is exactly what you are doing, you are small minded, judgemental, self centered and resentful of authority...pretty common traits in an adolescent.This is a time when you are going to challenge things that your family taught you in order to find your own identity, but realize that your family is probably pretty close to the values that you really hold dear....maybe they are atheists, too, but I hope for your sake that they are not and that you are spiritual what ever that means for you.There is something bigger than your self that is at work in the world.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 February 2010): There are very few situations in the USA where you are genuinely put upon by other people's religion.You'll notice that the US state treats religiously-inspired crimes the same as a crime inspired by any other reason. There's no defence or sentence reduction based upon faith (in fact, faith precludes an insanity defence).As for the children of what you see as the misguidedly religious, they have the freedom to make their own choices once they are adults. In the meantime, they have ready access to materials showing that their parents' views are not the only possibilities (an access which riles the extremely religious, but which is protected by the Constitution).You should consider that state-imposed atheism is the only real alternative to your disdained diversity and tolerance. You might care to ask the moderately religious of the ex-USSR their view of such a state. Living in your ideal world would be just as totalitarian as living in their ideal world -- and both would be hell for the rest of us.
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reader, DoubleM +, writes (12 February 2010):
 At your age, I think you should remain open to all possibilities, but I remember feeling much the same about your age. Other than my early years growing up in church (protestant), I have remained more open to religious diversity and much less adherent to any particular faith. And yes, I have questioned the idea of some omnipresent God that created all, but where do you suppose your spirit and being may have originated?
Was it simply a result of chemical reactions? Was it just a lightning strike in a pool of ooze in the early years of this planet? Did it come from comets or meteorites from outer space? Even if, what (or possibly who) started it? It has always seemed to me that life, even that of every living creature and plant on this planet, must have some kind of inspired creation. It must have started somewhere and by some kind of existence.
You are more than a chemical reaction, don't you think? But I must agree that the "religion" part of the equation on earth is manmade. Religions were created and fabricated by men hoping to benefit from the wonderings of others, and I agree that all of it is essentially crap. More people have died in the cause of religious differences than any other cause, other than reasons natural. But the question remains: Where or from whom did we originate?
Can you tell me for certain that some kind of spirit does not exist? Was there no inspired and living creation of some kind?
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 February 2010): Religion is just a rubber stamp to legitimize things that people want to do for other reasons. If people didn't have religions then they would have come up with a different set of justifications for the same ludicrous things.
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reader, QuirkLady +, writes (12 February 2010):
 There are plenty of people in therapy for issues that have nothing to do with religion as well, and so on down the rest of your list. You can look at Russia, Haiti, Chile and other places to find massacres that were politically motivated. Should we ban politics too?
A lot of people like to blame religion for certain things when they really should be blaming people. It's people that do horrible things to each other. Religion is just the tool they use to justify it.
If you're going to tolerate people's freedom of choice, you also have to tolerate that they will do things you won't approve of. That's just life.
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