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male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes: my girlfriend says I've lost her trust and she wants to end things but I think she's just being over dramatic and refusing to give me another chance. My old flame called me to say could we be friends again so I met her for a drink didn't tell my gf because I knew she'd go mad even thou I didn't want anything from my ex just a drink and a catch up. My gfs friend saw us and told my gf I admitted it all to my gf when she asked but now she says she can't trust me because i lied and can't see why I wanted to meet her anyway. How do I tell her to stop being so dramatic and to give me another chance when I haven't even done anything wrong she's just misunderstood
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 February 2015): JLS- I am the one whom posted about my own experience as I am looking at this question from his point of view as I feel this is most helpful. You're looking at what he's done but not why he did it. IF you don't think it was her lack of trust that led him to not tell her he was meeting up with a former flame then what was it?
I once had a friend who was constantly cheating on her partner, but spending the rest of the relationship petrified her partner would find out. Now, if she came to this site she would have been completely demonised & I have no doubt she would be getting the advice 'just leave him so he can find someone who won't cheat'. No one actually looks at things completely neutrally because all the aunts here are driven by their own emotional response which mostly consists of them having been on the receiving end of betrayal & empathising with that person. What would be most useful to the OPs in all situations is a completely objective view, which will more than likely uncover deeper issues in the relationships which can either be fixed or if not they can call it a day if they wish.
A
female
reader, jls022  +, writes (13 February 2015):
To 'the nonny' - I wouldn't normally respond to this sort of post but I feel
I have to as I'm a bit sad you thought my advice came across as 'crass and condescending' when I don't feel I was any harsher than others who responded. So I feel I should maybe explain a bit more.
First of all, I'm sorry my advice managed to offend you so much, that certainly was not my intention. I was in no way trying to suggest I know best for everyone, I was simply stating my opinion - that a friendship with an ex should be sacrificed if it upsets your significant other. Much of my post was directed at the person who suggested the only reason his girlfriend objected was because of her own trust issues which I disagree with.
I am not suggesting that men and women can't be friends in general, but I kind of think that if sex has been involved in the past then the lines are blurred and it's no longer a platonic friendship. If that is ok with your current partner, then fine. If not, then I don't think it's out of line to ask them to stop meeting up with them one on one. And these things should always be discussed in advance to avoid situations like this one. Again, this is just my opinion.
As for how the OP can fix it, he asked how he can tell her to stop being so dramatic and just get over it, and I don't agree he should do. Most people were trying to get him to see this from her point of view which will hopefully lead him to apologise to her for breaking her trust. That is totally up to him though.
Finally, this certainly is a place to give non-judgemental advice. There are always people who disagree with each other though - that's why it's such a good site. You get a wide variety of opinions from people from different countries and cultures all over the world.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 February 2015): To jls022,
Ok, since this was personally directed at me,I'll answer (for the LAST time as this thread has changed into something completely different and I don't want to make it all me,me,me)
Sigh. Where exactly in my reply did you read my (according to you) support for the OP's actions? Please point me that way!
I am NOT supportive of his actions. I UNDERSTAND his desire to be friends with the ex tho and yes,as I've stated numerous times, I strongly believe that yes, you can be friends with your ex and yes, it totally does not have to be sexual (actually if it is sexual in any way...well,you are not really friends then,are you? I mean I don't go around screwing my friends).
In fact the point you make about boundaries-I already made it. Though you called it "boundaries",I named it "past vs future". Tomato, tomäto.
In fact what you are describing is not being FRIENDS with you exes is being FRIENDLY and polite (anyone should hopefully be able to manage that,but alas, I understand the reasons why it is not always possible to do).
Let me give you an example: (all names changed). A friend of mine, Jess,went out with Alan for 2 1/2 years. Knew his family very well was friends/very close to them as well as her bf. They broke up (1 1/2 ago now). actually they decided that being friends might prove too difficult for both,but Jess and his entire family are still friends. Mark (Alan's brother) regularly goes out with Jess and they have "catch-ups" as friends (i.e. chatting over a drink after work,yes,alone sometimes,imagine the horror!!) once per month or once every couple of months. A ground rule is (as it was during the relationship too): no discussing Alan or their relationship.
What would you make of that? Would you intermediately jump to the conclusion that Jess wants to screw Mark or that Mark surely wants to screw his bro's ex? I mean seriously? Jeez!!!
Thank god you are not Glenda (Mark and Alan's mum),who also meets up with Jess and still invites her to events that are important to her. Glenda also treats Jess very well, they too are friends and they built up that friendship during Alan and Jess's relationship and did not want to throw it away. Alan simply brings any new gf home and Glenda is equally welcoming and friendly to them as she was to Jess.
Oh,btw, no marriage,no kids etc for Jess and Alan.
I mean friends means (to me) being part of each other's life, no sex etc. But occasionally chatting with them ain't:
"Oh,we are friends". I mean, have you been invited to an ex's wedding (happened to a friend's bf and she was invited too of course!) - now that's friends. And that takes guts. And a high level of EI.
I mean I have all the respect in the world for both Jess and my friend's (let's call her Amanda) current bf. Call me an idealist, if you want, but I believe that men too can want things (i.e. advice or whatever) from exes that are in no way sexual. I believe that men are not ONLY about sex and whilst it matters a great deal to them,I choose to believe that they can be rational and act/behave above their sexual impulses.
Also,I find your reply very crass and condescending (unlike any of the others!) coz you seem to assume that you know what's best for all-I never assume such a thing and I'm willing to learn from others.
Last but not least: "You didn't think she would like it, so you lied and did it anyway instead of talking about it like an adult and perhaps having to make a sacrifice. That shows her where your priorities lie and how little you respect her opinion. She is absolutely not being dramatic here." You make the same point as I and several others:yes,he should have talked it over with her beforehand coz that's the honest thing to do.
But where's your advice to him? How can he make this better?How can he improve for next time? Just pointing a finger and saying "you lied" is not very helpful. And,again, call me idealistic if you want,but I thought that this was a "give non-judgemental advice" area?
The Nonny
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (10 February 2015): I think you're the one who misunderstood- when an ex flame gets in touch no matter what they say they want they always want that bit extra! You were extremely foolish to go without asking ur gf prior!! I don't blame her- it looks bad and I don't think there's anyway you can fix this. How would u feel if your friend saw her out having a drink with her ex when shed told u nothing. Take this lesson of simple respect into ur next relationship
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female
reader, jls022 +, writes (9 February 2015):
I'm not sure if the anonymous female who is supporting the OP is one person or several people, but either way, I think you are mistaking trust and boundaries.Trust doesn't mean you should be able to do whatever you want and the other person should automatically be ok with it. It's ok for partners to have boundaries and expectations of each other and not meeting up with exes is not an uncommon one, nor is it out of line. Many people don't like it, not because they are controlling or untrusting, but because they don't think it's appropriate. I am on friendly terms with a few of my exes, and if I see them in the street I'll have a perfectly pleasant conversation, but I wouldn't meet up with them on my own in some sort of quasi-date type situation. If I did want to though, I would have enough respect for my partner to run it past them first and if they were uncomfortable I WOULD NOT DO IT. Do you know why? Because my current partner's feelings are ALWAYS my priority and I have enough love and respect for our relationship to make that sacrifice.It's always your right to REJECT those boundaries if they do not fit with your own, but you don't have the right to belittle them or sneak around pretending to have the same values while doing whatever the hell you want. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made on both sides to put your partner's mind at rest and strengthen the relationship, and that's the way it should be. To the OP - don't try to make this about her. You didn't think she would like it, so you lied and did it anyway instead of talking about it like an adult and perhaps having to make a sacrifice. That shows her where your priorities lie and how little you respect her opinion. She is absolutely not being dramatic here.
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female
reader, mrspiggy +, writes (9 February 2015):
 If she just misunderstood then why did you find a need to keep it from her?
Why did you feel the need to catch up with your ex?
You lied to her. You did betray her trust. You're very lucky she's speaking to you at all.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 February 2015): Hehe, nonny, loved it :) Said nonny here ;)Honeypie and Youwish, did you read my whole reply before getting angry, deciding I wanna make it all about age (and somehow you?) ?I’m asking, coz actually both of you had made exactly the same points as I did in my earlier post (especially Youwish with the “dramatic” and “over-reacting” part)In fact I only replied because it was I that was feeling completely out of touch- the guy can’t be friends with his ex? Really?That was implied in many of the earlier replies and even the more recent ones! There is such a thing as an old flame. Exes are exes for a reason.As you, I and pretty much everyone else on this thread has identified- the issue is not being friends with his ex (though the OP seems to think that), but the way he went about meeting her.And to all the other insinuations that were made in earlier posts- yes, I actually believe he didn’t want anything sexual from his ex (though the point about the ego-stroking was very interesting to read! Maybe?) I mean, com’mon he met her in a public place, public enough and well frequented enough by other members of their common acquaintances group to be seen by his gf’s friend!! (and, yes, I agree the friend did the right thing)Ok, I’m gonna try and keep this as concise as possible (not my forte!), but basically I read this problem like this: “I don’t understand why my gf reacted this way?” and then the replies were in the vein of :”You are a liar and she is better off without you”. Well, not very helpful to someone who has just asked for help to understand where he went wrong, no?I mean behind the computer screen each one of us is a human being with feelings, no? Yeah, he was a bit of an ass, so?? Have neither of you never made a mistake? Are you all blameless of hurting someone’s feelings unintentionally? Even if you really didn’t mean to? Coz I sure as hell am not perfect.I actually saw it as him trying to prevent hurt feelings rather than to intentionally hurt her. But (as I said on the earlier post), why did he fear her reply so much? Was he really that scared of a bit of a heated discussion ?? (coz after all his gf can’t tell him who he can and can’t be friends with. But he should have taken her feelings on board and respected them).I actually think the best approach would have been what Aunty BimBim suggested: "hey an old friend is going to be in town, and btw its an ex, but I'd like to catch up with her for a drink". That really is the best-casual, open and upfront. Even with that –you can still have problems (as per my earlier post again), but seriously it is a much better option.I agree that he wasn’t. But why? That’s not a question I can answer, that’s only for the OP to think about.And I said, I sincerely hope he hasn’t told her that she is being “dramatic” or “over-reacting” face to face… He asked for help on how to approach the situation with his gf (or by now, maybe ex number 2,as she rightly wasn’t too impressed), make her see his pof (i.e. “being friends with the ex is no big deal”-yes, it isn’t, but for it not to be he should have told her in advance) and the replies he got were as if he had asked to murder somebody without a way for the police to find the body… And no advice whatsoever on how to actually talk to her or repair the lost trust.To whomever mentioned the 60s-indeed! Have heard quite a few stories and you guys seem to have had “the wildest parties “ decade :) I agree-all very individual and whether you remain friends certainly doesn’t depend on age (I think it depends on emotional maturity) but sadly I’ve heard too many stories (worked in a nursing home previously) about people wishing they hadn’t burnt all their bridges… Decided to listen to their wisdom and follow their advice ;)Love,The Nonny :P
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A
male
reader, BrownWolf  +, writes (9 February 2015):
 I love it when guys dig their own holes and then blame the woman for pushing them in it. HA!Your first mistake sir... "My old flame called me" There is no such thing as an old flame. Any flame left unattended will die out on it's own. So you want to see if there was heat left in them coals.You got caught stroking the fire, and then you say to your now GF..."stop over reacting, I was just check to see if the fire was still alive, and look what happened, I got burned."Let's switch things around fire Rick...What if you saw your GF talking to one of her old "flames" and she didn't tell you. I bet you would be so calm and understanding...putting all your trust in her, and feel so secure right?Treat others the way your want to be treated.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 February 2015): I was in the exact same situation 2 years ago & whilst I was thankful at the time my boyfriend "forgave" me, I wish someone would have pointed out to me that he never trusted me to begin with & it sounds like your gf is the same. We recently broke up because of his controlling behaviour & trust issues. But I wish we'd broken up much sooner so I could have found someone that I could speak to, did trust me & so I wouldn't have to put up with all the drama. Ultimately you need to ask yourself if you want to be with someone that doesn't trust you for the rest of your life.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie  + ♥, writes (9 February 2015):
 The nonny who makes this issue about age, is missing the point of all the "older" aunties/uncles" by a light year.
It's NOT that you ABSOLUTELY can not EVER NEVER be friendly or talk to an ex, it's that you think sneaking around and lying is the way to do it.
It's about YOU (OP) not understanding that IF you do not have trust and honesty in your relationship, you are missing 2 of the 4 wheels on your car... You aren't going to go very far that way.
And add that you try and SHAME your GF into thinking she can't EXPRESS how it made her feel when you DECEIVED her, so that you let out the air of yet another wheel. Respect. She isn't being dramatic.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (9 February 2015):
 Seriously? This has nothing to do with "older" people giving you advice. If older people were so out of touch, and it's totally okay to be friends with exes and go run off to have a drink with them behind their girlfriends' back, then this guy would have TOLD his girlfriend without reservation.
Truth is, the fact that he consciously hid the issue just proves that he knew what he was doing was wrong. Imagine how he would feel if she went behind HIS back to see an ex! With guys as territorial as ever, do you think that would fly?? Not a rat's chance in hell.
You blew her trust, and you did it willingly, knowingly, and with premeditation. Why else in this age of "oh, it's okay to go out on a date with an ex behind your girlfriend's back" would her friend see you with your ex and do the RIGHT thing by warning her about you?? Her friend is truer than you are.
You can't do things when you're in a relationship that you do when you're single. You can't just meet an ex for drinks and then accuse your GF of being "dramatic", and you should be ashamed that you call her caring for you and loving you "dramatic". That's like her buying you an expensive gift and you pulling down your pants and urinating on it. She cared for you and you humiliated her, treated her with disrespect, and then ridicule her for reacting.
Calling her "dramatic" is like punching her in the face and then criticizing the way she cries out in response. Nice.
You don't be friends with exes unless your current GF completely signs off on it. You don't have conversations with other women that you wouldn't be willing to have in your GF's presence. You wouldn't want a conversation or meeting with a woman that you wouldn't want to see your GF having with another man.
Hopefully, her next boyfriend will cherish her and consider going back to an ex to be distasteful to him. I think your girlfriend will be just fine.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 February 2015): It's not the fact that he met with his ex it the attitudes or ages of the aunts in whether people exes should be friends with exes .
I hate to inform the younger generation who seem to think they invented everything but maybe they should research the 60s! Many many older people have remained friends and I also know many younger people who do not
It's the fact he deliberately kept the fact he was meeting with his ex from
His girlfriend that is the issue here!
REGARDLESS of his intentions or his justifications ... It counts as a lie !
She has every reason in the world not to trust him.
That's not harsh! It's just life
For every action = reaction !!!!!
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A
female
reader, Aunty BimBim  +, writes (8 February 2015):
 It is possible to be friends with people you have dated in the past, and if you have a current partner, it would be normal for your current boyfriend/girlfriend to meet your friends, ex's and non ex's.
The fact is you KNEW she would be upset, so rather than discuss in a rational way "hey an old friend is going to be in town, and btw its an ex, but I'd like to catch up with her for a drink" is a lot different to sneaking around and telling lies by omission and being caught out by a girlfriend of your girlfriend.
You have shown yourself to be untrustworthy.
End of story.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (8 February 2015): I think most of the answers on here are from older people or in different cultures where its not the norm to be friends with an ex & have been very harsh on you. Where I come from it IS normal to be friends with an ex. What speaks volumes though is that she wouldn't have been happy if you had even told her first, so she never really trusted you anyway. Do YOU really wanna be with someone that doesn't trust you?
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (8 February 2015):
She didn't misunderstand a darned thing.
I agree you were lying by omission and sneaking around. EVEN if the meet up was OH SO innocent, hiding it is not a good idea.
If you will lie about this what else will you lie about? Or "not tell" so YOU won't get in trouble? It's the attitude that forgiveness (if you get caught) is easier then getting "permission" - that is what a 10 year old would do. She may not have liked you meeting up with this ex, but had you told her, she would at least know that you are being open and honest.
The attitude that "what the GF doesn't know, can't hurt her" doesn't work.
And it's funny how you make this ALL about your GF being wrong, when your actions were the ones that were "wrong".
Put the shoe on the other foot, if your GF was sneaking around to go out for drinks with and ex, you would think that was totally OK, right?.. I bet not.
Use some common sense. If you can't be open and honest with your GF, don't date her.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 February 2015): You deserve to be dumped.
You lied! And did have an alternate motive. Let her leave and find someone she can trust
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (8 February 2015): Aunty BimBim,I normally love your advice-it's very sage. You've been a bit harsh on this fella though.Man, I don't know if it's because I'm in your age group or not,but I don't see this as such a big deal. quite the opposite-I normally like guys who keep in touch/can keep civil/friends with their exes (yes,even if children are not involved. Actually then it's a bigger plus as it shows a level of emotional maturity that most people lack).I sure as hell ain't gonna wait till I'm at death's door to "rekindle friendships" with my exes. If you were attracted to that person in the first place you saw something in them that was special. Like a light that shone for your eyes only. But then,as time goes by, you discover more negative traits in that person or you have different goals in life and decide and you part ways. as long as it's a mutual decision and there's no cheating involved (i.e. no trust betrayed) I don't see why you shouldn't be able to keep the friendship.But Aunty BimBim is right- you betrayed her trust. Why? Because before you went on that meeting you KNEW that your gf would be upset IF she knew about it.Nonetheless, your gf's feelings didn't matter to you (especially since this is your ex-no future here, just friends,right? so future=more important than past,no?).That's what you are screaming from the rooftops with your actions- your feelings (desire to be friends with the ex) matter to you more than the person you supposedly should love most in the world (your current gf?)!?!? A bit selfish,no? And then you make it worse, by saying that she is "overreacting"???I sincerely hope you didn't say that to her face. There is no way I would take you back after that if you did...She LOVES you, she cares for you,she wants to be your number ONE! No other girls! Of course, she is overreacting! Natural for someone who cares for you and your relationship!Your mistake here is not "being just friends with the ex". It's not putting your gf's feelings first. Love is selfless-and you are being selfish.Your girl needs to know that she comes first and that she is the only one for you! Frankly, the only road to recovery that I can see are : very sincere, very thorough apologies and an offer for a meeting with the ex. After all,if your ex wants to be just friends,she wouldn't mind meeting your current gf,right? And your gf will be reassured that there is no sex talk etc and that you really not hiding anything from her. Speaking of which-why did you hide it from her? Is breaking up with someone you love any worse outcome than maybe a slightly heated discussion?Your current gf should have been in the know from the get go,but the only thing you can do now is1)apologise+set up meeting with ex,you,gf. 2)offer your gf to come to all future "catch-ups" with your ex till she regains her trust in you?Again,as I said-nothing wrong with being friends with an ex, but you went about it the wrong way.Aunty BimBim-a friend of mine was invited to a wedding. whose you ask? well,her bf's ex. Yup. He (my friend's bf) was invited to the wedding and naturally his plus one was my friend (his gf). She was invited to the hen do etc.Even with months of preparation and knowledge she was LIVID."Why can't he just not go?Why do I have to go to her stupid hen do? Isn't she getting married to another guy anyway?Why is then inviting her ex to her wedding (and my current bf,thank you very much?" etc. etc. Lots of hours of agony.She went to the hen do. She came back smiling from ear to ear!!! They were paint balling, went to a casino etc- I think she made a new friend that week-end: the bride-to-be!As I kept telling her back then: "It's great if a bf of yours is friends with his ex-you can see how he might treat you one day... If he is treating her that respectfully,even though they are no longer in love, that means that one day if you need it,he'll treat you the same way." everyone's nice when the going is smooth. The interesting bit comes when the going gets tough...If they treat you well then too-you are on to a keeper,I say! ;)
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reader, MSA +, writes (8 February 2015):
 The ex-factor is very sensitive and should always be treated with caution and extra caution. In about 90% of all relationships, there is no room for "friendship" with the EX. Maybe, just maybe, some point down the road after you're married and had children, and the EX is also married with children, you might possibly be friends at that point. But there really isn't room for the kind of friendship you hope to maintain with your EX now.. Chat, Chill, and Drinks.Men seem to think it's cool and they can handle being "friends" with their ex while trying to pursue a new relationship with someone else. Have the best of both world's? Well what if the roles were switched and your male friends saw your girlfriend having drinks with her ex, and told you about it? How would you feel? Would you still think it's cool for her to stay "friends" and have drinks with her ex? As I mentioned, the ex-factor is a very sensative subject. Both of you need to talk about it openly and honestly and if either one doesn't feel comfortable with whatever level of contact, then that should be respected and adhered to.You may think it's unfair... But unfortunately this is the only way to deal with the ex-factor.
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female
reader, Aunty BimBim +, writes (8 February 2015):
You knew you were doing the wrong thing by your girlfriend by meeting up with and having a drink with your ex, which is why you kept it a secret .... and if her girlfriend hadn't seen you both ..... well what then. Would you still be sneaking around being 'friends' and having drinks with your ex girlfriend?
Your girlfriend has not misunderstood, she has got it right, you can't be trusted, she is not being dramatic you are a liar and sneak. Why should she give you another chance?
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