A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:hi everyone. im an unhappily married man with two small children.im wondering if anyone has any experience staying with someone they don't love for their kids sake? my wife has a short temper and can stay angry for weeks about things without even letting me know what we're fighting about. she fought with me for 2 months straight last year because my parents were late coming to our house to babysit and she wanted me to agree to never seeing them again. she constantly criticizes me and calls me names. i was patient with her for a long time and for a while she had me convinced that everything was my fault and i kept trying harder to be perfect so it would stop. we dont have much of a relationship now i dont even see her in the evening when the kids are asleep. im not really sure what i want to ask here. what age are your kids old enough to deal with divorce? im so tired and worn out and when shes shouting at me these days it on the tip of my tongue to just say im leaving you. but if i leave my kids are both under 5 and they're not old enough to speak up for themselves and she gets as angry with them as she does with me. i tell myself if i can stay for another 15 years my youngest will be 18 and then that will be enough, and then sometimes i think it would be okay just to stay together till hes 16. but then when shes in a bad mood im not sure i can make it through the day. she paranoid that ill talk about this to anyone as well, i feel so trapped and alone with this. is it dishonest to stay married to someone for that long when you plan on divorcing them at the end? shes not a person you can talk about things rationally to though. sorry this was so long.
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female
reader, HappyPlace  +, writes (21 October 2013):
 Me again. I feel some people don't get my "for better or for worse" and a few toys were thrown out of the pram. Let me explain a little more. I married last year and I take my vows very seriously. No matter how bad the ride gets, I'm in for the long-haul. Perhaps those that don't understand this concept are not married! What I want to ask is, was your wife like this before you got married? If not, what has changed her? That is why I asked how old your children were and whether this could possibly be postnatal depression. If she is mentally unwell, then she needs help. Yes, I do NOT condone the abuse you have suffered but I am searching for reasons here. If she was like it before you got married, then why on earth did you marry her and have kids?? Counselling should be the next step here for you both.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (11 October 2013): You're afraid that if you divorce, your kids will spend half the week being shouted at?
So you think its better not to divorce, so your kids will spend the entire week being shouted at? (Since they will never have opportunity to be away from her unless you divorce her)
To be honest she sounds like she has borderline personality disorder. Borderline tends to affect more women than men. But another problem is that even if she doesn't have borderline (as diagnosed by a psychiatrist) society often condones women for behaving as if they did. Men marrying and staying with women like this is one example.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 October 2013): You are in an abusive marriage therefore you need to get out and take your kids with you even if its only during your scheduled visitation. Or better yet when you divorce her try to prove to the court that she is abusive and unstable so they may award you full custody of the kids.
Start recording her so you can show evidence in divorce court that she is abusive. Keep a journal from now on of each and every abusive incident.
Go to this website which is a support site for men who are or have been abused by their partners and educate yourself on your situation and talk to men on the forum who have been in your shoes.
http://www.shrink4men.com/
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 October 2013): Staying in a marriage like this just because you have kids is messed up
Look. All actions have consequences. You unfortunately made a very bad decsision in the past to marry and have kids with this woman. Pickong he wrong life partner can be disastrous as you are finding out. Therefore going forward now nothing you do will be free of consequences. Your kids will be messed up no matter if you stay or leave your marriage.
If you leave, your wife will no doubt feed them lies about you and try to turn them against you. If you stay they will witness her abusive treatment of you and take on her attitude towards you when they grow older. They will start to disrespect you because they see their mother doing it and absorb her attitide to you.
Worse is that by staying you are providing to them a bad role model of what a marriage is supposed to look like. They will grow up to become abusive jerks like your wife and think its normal and ok since you stuck around thereby condoning it. Or they will find themselves in your own shoes in their future relationships being abused by others and not knowing that it is possible or even an option to say no to abuse since they never saw you do it in a meaningful way (and no, screaming back at your wife isn't saying no to her abuse, it is just being as crazy as she is. Leaving her is how you say no this is not acceptable.)
I am very sorry this is happening but truth is when you made the choice to marry and have kids with a woman like this, you were painting yourself into a corner where there is no path that wont lead to some problems with or for your kids in the future. Divorcing won't make your family broken, it is already broken right now. It is time to accept responsibility for your bad life choices, stop making this all about your wife, and start extricating yourself from this messed up situation and try to save your kids from getting messed up by her.
At least if you leave her there is more chance to repair some of the damage done by providing them a home thats a safe haven away from her (when it is your turn to have the kids with you) that is peaceful and sane. That might be their only opportunity to have a drama free and conflict free home environment which is with you without their mother even if it is only weekends. Obviously by staying married to her then you can't save your kids from her as there will be no other household to go to besides the one she is in.
There is no need to feel trapped and alone. Talk to friends and family members who will support you. Do not talk to friends and family members who will push you to stay married. They don't know what you go through so they have no right to tell you to stay. But get support from people who will encourage you to leave her. Don't keep this a secret. When people get married they tell all their friends and family. When you are going to leave a abusive marriage you need to involve your support network too. People who truly care about you will cheer you on and provide help.
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A
female
reader, Soconfusedanymore  +, writes (11 October 2013):
 My god.. I can't believe anyone would say stick with this for better or worse.. I would assume the children would be more messed up if he stays.. they don't deserve to hear this garbage that comes from her mouth to their father. Pouring coffee over your head?! That is so degrading and disrespectful on so many levels! Pack your bags, pack the kids bags and go. That is ridiculous. Document EVERYTHING that goes on. Present that in court. She has issues you cannot fix. That is not love, it is abuse. It can and will get worse. The children will think this is a normal relationship. This isn't the example you want to set for them. You deserve happiness. They deserve to see their father happy.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 October 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionthanks everyone for all the replies. you've given me a lot to think about already.she hasnt been tested for bi polar disorder but she has anxiety and depression. but i have depression as well and i've never taken that as an excuse to get angry at people. she also has insomnia and an auto immune disease and migraines all the time.i have tried to be supportive about these things but when shes in a mood she blames me for everything thats wrong in her life. i know she has more than her share of bad luck with her health but i do as much as i can for her. i only work 3 days a week, put the kids to bed when i get home and she basically spends the other 4 days in bed playing games on her phone. and i dont complain and im still the one getting called lazy and stupid and uncaring.the kids are definately aware of how things are between us. they've seen her pour coffee over me and then break the cup off the wall. then she said what are you complaining about its not boiling hot. my daughter has learnt to swear from her as well. i actually got an i love you txt message from her today but she spent ages yesterday telling me about how stupid i am.she did actually have post natal depression. at the time i was working nights so i was able to mind our daughter most of the time and then my wifes mom would call in and put the baby to bed. then my wife went back to work when her maternity leave was up and basically had nothing to do with our daughter for the next 3 years. its only in the last 2 years that she has given her any attention.a lot of people here were saying how its not good for the kids if their parents are fighting all the time. i agree with that i dont want them to think thats as good as they could hope for. but im afraid that if we get divorced and have joint custody they'll spend half the week being shouted at. its not that theres tension in the house because of me and my wife. anything can set her off even the children laughing if she has a migraine. or if someone drops a spoon. so i guess thats my main worry. i dont think she'd behave any better with them if i wasnt there.i might see a divorce attorney just to see what kind of rights i have. and maybe try a marriage counsellor if shes willing to. thanks for all the advice hopefully ill be able to do the best thing for my kids.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 October 2013): My parents never loved each other. Passive aggression and hurtful words, lack of communication and support, were always thick in the air. They didn't get divorced until I was 25. When I heard? "FINALLY, oh, thank God." I wish it had happened decades sooner. I was always on eggshells growing up -- one of the reasons I read 1000 pages a week. Gotta escape somehow. It has caused me buckets of problems of my own, many of which could have been avoided if those two people had been more honest with themselves. I think, given my experience, that it's way more hurtful for the kids to stay together than to divorce. Your wife sounds like my mom, too. Everything's hunky-dory-plastic-perfect to the outside world, a narcissistic angry passive-aggressive hell on the inside. GTFO while those kids are still as young and malleable as they are. They will do as you do, not as you say, and the battlefield that is your home life is what they will have to base their reality on. When they're in their 20s, and in therapy, they'll shake their heads and wish you had left.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (10 October 2013):
 I divorced my first husband when my kids were 3 and 5. They turned out fine.
My youngest is now 27 and has no bad memories of his parents together. He has NO memories of us together and that's fine.
Early on the kids were with me and him about equally and my mom and dad did after school care for the boys, at one point I asked them if it was hard for them having three sets of rules to live with and they said in the most matter of fact way "no it's easy there are rules at mom-mom's for her house, different rules for dad at his house and rules at mom's house"
The younger they are the more adaptable they are.
NEVER stay in a relationship for the sake of the children.
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A
female
reader, mystiquek + ♥, writes (10 October 2013):
 I wouldn't recommend staying with your wife for another 15 years if you are unhappy. Your children are young but they'll pick up on the bad vibes and unhappiness. Its better for children to be in 2 separate happy homes than 1 home that is help together by 2 miserable people. My parents fought all the time when I was growing up. My sister and I used to pray that they would divorce. My mother would scream, carry on and then go away for days at a time, but she always came back. They never divorced, and are still married..53 years. They hate one another. It really did alot of psychological damage to my sister and I. We knew our house wasn't normal.
Seek out counselling if at all possible. I'm not saying that you walk away without trying, but don't stay in the marriage just for the kids. Its not fair to you or them. Please take it from someone who lived it. My whole family would have been much happier if my parents had just divorced.
I wish you all the best.
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A
male
reader, CMMP +, writes (10 October 2013):
First about the kids: I honestly believe that divorce is easier when kids are younger, specifically under 5. It's not easy, but they just kind of roll with the punches while bigger kids take it personally and are often extremely upset by divorce. My brother divorced when his daughter was 3 and it went amazingly well.
Ten years later he met the love of his life and he's amazingly happy (which is good for his daughter). His ex is happy as far as I can tell.
So, not only are you depriving yourself of happiness, you're setting a very bad example for your kids about what a relationship should be.
On to your wife: if you'd like to try and salvage this relationship, you have to leave her when she's NOT angry. Yes LEAVE her. Tell her that you can't be with her any more, not because you don't care for her, but because of her poisonous anger.
If she begs for you to reconsider, tell her the only way that'd happen is if she sought treatment for her problem. Without that, there's no chance.
Then have her go to therapy once or twice a week. I'd recommend a natural doctor as they can offer non prescription solutions such as supplements, that can help your wife.
If you tell her that you want to leave her and she says "good riddance" then it's over, and it's better for all. A divorce will be difficult, but nowhere near as difficult as your marriage is now.
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A
female
reader, HappyPlace +, writes (10 October 2013):
Sorry, but a marriage is for better or worse in my book and you should be trying to work on a solution which doesn't involve leaving. Kids don't deserve to pick up on bad vibes, and this is where you need to sit your wife down and have a good old discussion about what is going on. Has she always been like this or is it a recent thing?Look, there are two sides to every story and it would be interesting to get your wife's view. I personally believe society is getting more messed up because there are too many divorces - kids need both parents in my book. What does she criticize you about?? She sounds deeply unhappy too so perhaps you can use this as a base to talk things through. The children are young - could she be postnatally depressed?
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 October 2013): You might not be able to see it now, but you'll be doing your kids a favor by leaving in the long run. It's not healthy for them to grow up with parents who are always fighting. Trust me. I grew up with my mom always yelling at my dad, and I'm quite messed up because of it . She yelled at me too , and made me feel worthless. Your wife will do the same to your kids. Don't let it happen.
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (10 October 2013):
 Staying with someone... remaining married or in a partnership.... "for the kids' sake"... has proven to be a weak reason. Kids are notoriously resilient.... and will usually do OK, regardless of how goofy their parents act...
Good luck...
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A
female
reader, pinktopaz +, writes (10 October 2013):
I haven't been married before, but I did see you asked if there's an age where the kids will be old enough to deal with a divorce. Coming from someone who's parents started going through a divorce when I was 26, the answer is no!
In honesty, it sounds like you should probably get a divorce. Sure you can stand up to her and tell her what's going on and that you want to leave. She'll probably change and try for a little bit and then go back to how she was before.
In a marriage like this, your kids already know (or will soon) that you and your wife's marriage is probably not good. They probably know/see that your wife isn't very nice to you. Do you really want your kids growing up in a household like that? Them growing up to think that it's okay to treat their spouse that way or to be treated that way themselves?
I know a lot of people worry about the kids and stay miserable because they're worried about the kids. But I've had friends practically thank God that their parents were finally getting a divorce and then there are people like me that was blindsided and took it really hard as an adult. So what I'm trying to say is, it might actually be healthier for your kids to not have to be forced to stay in a household where their mother is verbally abusive to their father.
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A
female
reader, Soconfusedanymore +, writes (10 October 2013):
I was kind of in a similar situation. Honestly, if you don't want to be with her, and she makes you miserable, it is time to go. It has nothing to do with leaving the kids behind, or having a broken home. Kids are not dumb, and they know how you're feeling, and can see it. Since they are young, there is information out there to help them through the ordeal. Mister Rogers had an episode on divorce, I would look that up. On the other hand, being under 5, they don't fully grasp the concept. It isn't fair to you, or the kids to stay with someone who isn't making you happy. They deserve to see what a good relationship is, and what happiness is. If this continues, this is what they will perceive is what a normal relationship is. It sucks, but the best thing you can do, is go. Set custody arrangements, and if she is abusing those kids verbally, physically, or emotionally, then they need to be with you. Noone deserves to live the way you are.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 October 2013): Has she been tested for bipolar disorder?
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A
female
reader, Starlights +, writes (10 October 2013):
 Your wife has severe anger issues, she's abusive emotionally and it may stem from her own past. She needs to get help and both of you need to work on your relationship to be happier. It may take professional help!
Speaking from my experiences; staying in a marriage unhappily for the long term does not work.
This is because the kids pick up the bad "mood" and the arguments or unspoken words at home.
In the long run its not a healthy environment for the kids to grow up knowing their father doesn't truly love their mother but is just hanging around until they are grown up to leave the nest.
Its unfair for all of you!
You might want to be honest with your wife and not be scared of her...let her know what's at risk.
I am sure if she loves you she will make an effort.
If not divorce is not the end of the world. Only you can decide.
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