A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:For more info on this, please read (or skim) this question: http://www.dearcupid.org/question/i-believe-my-girlfriend-is-lying-about-an.html.This problem of mine goes back almost a year. I haven't been able to shake this feeling of mine that the girl I've been dating for over 6 months cheated on me early in the relationship. Technically we weren't official when the deed would have happened but she has told me countless times that when she is pursuing someone she would never do anything because she, like me, considers that cheating.Anyway, I've approached my girlfriend about this situation countless times and little by little more info has been divulged but I still feel in my gut that more things happened between her and another man during an intimate massage, but she won't own up to it. I was able to leave it alone for a few months and not mention it at all and we were good until I finally talked to the other guy involved and it brought up some bad feelings for me again.I approached my girlfriend about the interaction I had with him and she immediately began to cry because she thought we were past the issue. Talking about it this last time resulted in nothing new being found out. She still maintains her original story to me even though the guy didn't tell me one that was the same. In fact, his words were "what does it matter, you and her weren't even together." From that I gather that something may have happened that she still isn't admitting to.So finally I had had enough with the denial and there were other things going on in my life and I wanted this to be over. I told her, "can you just tell me that something did happen even if you say it didn't? maybe it'll make me feel better somehow." I told her to say word for word "I fucked [him]" She said she wouldn't say it. I asked her why she wouldn't. I said, "If nothing happened between you two you should feel free to say it because it's not true. It shouldn't be an issue. It's like telling a joke." She said she wouldn't say it because she didn't see how it would help the situation. I told her it would help because if you didn't do anything than it shouldn't be hard to say it. By not wanting to say it you're acting guilty when something apparently never happened. So I told her in a matter of fact manner that I fucked my (former) roommate (she was also concerned about a former roommate of mine but nothing happened between her and I which is why I said it in that situation). She said, "You're lying!" And I asked her how she knew. She told me she knows me better than that. So I asked her again to say she fucked him. Finally she laughs and quickly says as she tosses her head to the side, "I fucked [him]". She wasn't taking it seriously so I asked her, "why the theatrics? if it didn't happen just say it as you would normally. this shouldn't be a problem". She continues to say no until finally she breaks down and says, "FINE! I fucked [him]! *pauses* I fucked [him]! As she's finishing her second repeat of the phrase a flash of fear and sadness passes on her face and it's really obvious that it scares and hurts her to say it. So I ask her, if it isn't true than why does it pain you so much to say it. She pauses, looks at me confused, and then takes a feeble swing at me. I grab her arms and hold her in place. She begins sobbing uncontrollably telling me she hates me. I let her go and she collapses to the floor where she begins talking to her about her guilt and all but she still does not believe what she's said is true. She maintains in that moment as she's crying on the floor that she didn't do anything.At this point, I feel like the worst guy in the world who just wanted the truth but I feel like I'm being deceived and manipulated and don't want to feel sorry for her. I don't understand this situation and it's gotten so bad at this point that I know I'm going to have to leave her. I just need a little guidance on this one. It's caused both of us a lot of distress and I need to know if I am the bad guy in this situation or if her breakdown is an admission of cheating despite her still denying it.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 August 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionExcept, she's been cheating for a whole year and it started when she misunderstood that I wanted to go slow in the beginning. She took that as an invitation to get cozy to someone who she has been close to for a whole year. She always saw the relationship as exclusive despite me wanting to keep it open in the beginning. Seems she had it all reversed because by the time we should have been totally exclusive, a year on, she was sleeping with someone.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 August 2013): You would have cheated too of you had someone badgering you and accusing you of cheating before you dated and making you cry...ofc you want to cheat! The person who is supposed tl love you is torturing you. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 August 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionFor everyone who has answered and accused me of being the bad guy for wanting a straight answer, I want you to know that she HAS cheated. I repeat, she HAS cheated. I finally got proof, confronted her and she denied it straight to me face before getting overdramatic and cutting me out of her life. She is not only dishonest and manipulative, but she may have issues that are deeply seeded that she does not care to face.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2013): Lets get this straight: according to you, if someone is innocent they should feel comfortable saying they committed the crime. (IMO this is pretty bizarre logic.)Therefore if they insist on their innocence it means they are guilty.And if they say they are guilty it means they are actually innocent. Whatever. Since this logic is so bizarre and backwards don't you see how any person such as your girlfriend would be uncomfortable saying ANYTHING? It is clear that you just wanted to play "gotcha!"... anyone on the other end would thus be thinking what should I say so that he will go away and leave me alone. Therefore of course she will give inconsistent answers. First she tries out this answer and says she is innocent (maybe it was even the truth??), nope didn't work you were still mad so then she tries out the other answer and says she is guilty since according to you that means she actually is innocent. Nope didn't work you are still mad and now talking about having slept with another woman too or whatever games you're playing. Of course she is going to have a breakdown!. A stronger woman might have stormed off in a huff and dumped you if you're always doing bizarre sh!t like this.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2013): OP, you posed the question of are you the bad guy for making her break down. People have told you that yes you are. And now you get all defensive. What is it you want to hear? Or is this like what you did with your gf where you asked her what happened but didnt want to hear her answer because you already had your mind made up yet you insisted she say the words you wanted her to say. Is that why you are here now, not to solicit honest opinions as you claim but to hear only what you want to hear? In that case how about if I say "fine, you are not the bad guy here ". Does that make you feel better? Probably not, correct? Because now you know I am only saying it because it is what you want to hear. So what good was this tactic of yours supposed to do in the case of your gf? It is absurdity in the extreme because nothing she could have done or said at that moment would have been the "right" answer as far as you were concerned. Everything she said was not good enough and warranted further pressure from you. And because you refused to back off when she made clear she was very uncomfortable with your behavior, that is bullying. Yes you do feel that she deceived you. I get that you believe she has wronged you. No matter how infuriated you feel, it does not give you the right to bully her. You could have told her how angry and upset you felt and then broken up with her. If you cannot get over it then you should leave her, not stick around just to torment and harrass her. Cornering someone and getting into their face and pressuring them to appease you, is bullying regardless of what the back story is. Why? Because you had other alternatives (such as simply ending the relationship or perhaps even working on your insecurity issues so you are not so upset anymore) but chose to behave in a very nasty and mean way instead. You cannot resolve conflicts by being a drama queen. Instead you will just drive people to hate you or encourage them to lie to you to avoid your unpleasantness.
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reader, SillyB +, writes (29 June 2013):
 Yes, please do break up with her!! God, she needs a healthy relationship. She may say that she agrees that while in the friend zone anything that happens is cheating, but I think it's just to appease you. No normal person would hang around in the friend zone not dating or see other people. What the heck for? Her life can't possibly revolve around your whims so much.Like you said, you've had jealousy issues in the past. These are things you need to figure out because believe me it will not get better. The older you get, the more experienced women become - you'll be dating women with colorful pasts.You're blaming your head issues on mike and lulu. EVERYONE believes you. I think alot of people are just too nice to tell you that you're paranoid and irrational here. You're mother is biased. Seek an objective party like a therapist.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionIt seems a lot of the harshest critics have missed a lot of important details in both stories. The only people who have given me solid advice and critically examined what I've posted are Darrell and janniepeg. Everyone seems to be reading over the fact that she and I both agree that even in the pursuit phase of a relationship her and I agreed that that was cheating. Of course, this admission of hers didn't come until weeks later because the first time I approached her she said, "we weren't together."Also, I can own up to the fact that I was no doubt a bad guy in this situation but again many people who know the full story and are close to me believe my side of the story. She hasn't told the story to anyone. I've suffered from jealousy in the past but I learned from that relationship before this new one and I had no issues until this guy Mike came along and began putting ideas in my head. It didn't start with me as paranoia, it began from an external source.It also seems people here fail to realize the importance of body language in all this. I've witnessed a lot of irregularities against her baseline that make no sense to me and she can not adequately explain them. I am feeling that come 6 weeks later I know what I will do: break up with her.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2013): From you're last post you got really upset because everybody CONFIRMED what you KNOW in you're heart is true. You bully your girlfriend to say she f**cked some guy and say if it isn't true, it was a joke. Really? I have never had anyone say that to me in all my 37 years of being on this earth. You know what you did was very manipulative and just plain low down. Now you're mad at the posters for posting honest opinions. Usually when people get defensive, there is a ring of truth. It's you're right to believe that you were right for doing what you did. Everybody on here knows a bully when we see them. Usually a bully is an insecure person wrapped in a manipulative over assertive body such as yourself. I don't need to know who you are to know what you did was wrong. You know what you did was wrong too or else you wouldn't have posted for honest unbiased opinions. We all know close friends may be a little biased in our favor, therefore we ask from those who could be totally honest because we don't want the biased opinions of friends. That what you got. You had no problem being harsh to you're girlfriend, Why can't you take it?
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2013): Congratulations on single handedly destroying your relationship due to (a) your insecurity and over active imagination (b) your psychological abuse and messed up mind games (c) your refusal to take responsibility for your own feelings. so, yes, you are the bad guy here.
"By not wanting to say it you're acting guilty when something apparently never happened."
seriously, what kind of messed up thinking is this? what planet do you live on where this even makes sense?
you put your gf into a lose-lose situation. If she said yes she did, you will say "see I knew it all along" if she continued to deny it, as she did, you refuse to accept it and insist she is lying and continue harassing her until you coerce her into saying it. It's like an innocent prisoner giving a false confession under duress just to get the abuse to stop. You made up your mind that she did sleep with that guy. So, you should have just ended the relationship, no need to get all histrionic and melodramatic. You were not interested in the truth, you already decided what the truth was. You just wanted to punish her and make her squirm. Well, congratulations, you achieved your goal. does that make you feel better?
And this is all over an incident from BEFORE you were together? let's face it. The cause of this is that you have trust issues. Those are YOUR issues, YOUR problem, not hers. But now you have gone and made it into her problem by treating her like this and refusing to take responsibility for your issues.
You are a bully. I hope you leave your girlfriend so she doesnt' have to be subjected to your weird f*** up mind games again. and I hope you learn to get a grip on your insecurity so you dont' similarly destroy the next relationship you get into.
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reader, janniepeg  +, writes (29 June 2013):
 "Like the one that didn't happen?"
That could mean they were trying to forget that massage section. It's only between him and her, for all others, that massage night didn't happen.
Also, she admitted massaging him twice, she didn't remember if there was a third occasion.
That does not wash with me at all.
You can ask a thousand people here can gather their opinion but at the end you will never know the truth.
It's not really that hard to keep things a secret. If she was not making an effort to cover any tracks she didn't really care about the relationship. She remained friends with Mike for too long knowing he is a threat in your relationship.
Believe me, I absolutely hate insecure guys who interrogate girlfriends. But in your case I believe she was hiding something.
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (29 June 2013):
 You should just END it with her. You will NEVER get over the "imagination sex" she might or might NOT have had BEFORE you two even started dating.
Leave her be and get a fresh start with someone else. The girl deserves better and you can't give her that, because YOU have already decided what she did (or didn't do) and to you, that seems to be all that matters.
Look up retrograde jealousy. Read it. And next time TRY not to live in the past.
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reader, SillyB +, writes (29 June 2013):
Again,
You were NOT cheated on. You two were not together. How can you not understand this. This is a mad case of retroactive jealousy.
How harsh everyone has been is only a fraction of what you've done to her.
Please end it now. Unless you see a counselor little will change your irrational thinking.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2013): I just re-read your first question. I think you need to carefully do the same and approach viewing the question like you are an outsider to the situation.
Nothing at all leads me to believe she is lying to you. You've blown this seriously out of proportion because you smoked cannabis for the first time. You stated "The feeling was weird but what it did for me was help me put together all the pieces of what Mike had been telling me and what Lulu had displaying to me in her interactions with him. SHE MUST HAVE DONE SOMETHING WITH HIM DURING A MASSAGE."
WHAT MASSAGE?? In the conversation you overheard between 'Mike' and 'Lulu' where Mike asked for "the same massage as last time," (to make you uncomfortable because Mike gets some sort of sick thrill out of chasing women and making submissive guys uncomfortable) she stated "like the one that DIDN'T happen?"
Additionally, you stated that Mike was a basketball player and Lulu was hired to provide theraputic massages to athletes. Maybe he skipped an appointment? Maybe he asked her for something she was uncomfortable with? Whatever it was, i can ASSURE YOU IT REALLY WASN'T!
Since you are unfamiliar with Cannabis and do not use it regularly you are completely naive to how it affects one's way of thinking. I have used it regularly in the past. When you are really high, you feel strange, and the way your brain works is affected. For me, that means seeing patterns in everything...but the patterns aren't anything more than coincidences that seem to have significance in a moment of strange clarity while stoned.
It is fumbling around in a cabinet grasping at straws while trying to prepare to drink the milk that hasn't yet spilled simply because you imagined a reality so real that you knew--you knew it so truly that you felt with every fibre of your being that milk had spilled in your minds eye and that ensured concretely that milk would spill once you had poured yourself a glass. Then, you open the fridge and, lo and behold, there is no milk. You forgot to buy it. You were fumbling in your cabinet and grasping at straws like an ASS when you didn't even have the milk you were certain had already spilled. You have been acting on this under-the-influence ASSumption like it is truth.
The difference between milk and your girlfriend/relationship? Well, you can't just go to the store and buy a new girlfriend.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI appreciate the responses I do. I can understand the harsh words as well but I also understand that it's easy to be as harsh as you all are being when you don't know me. Everyone who knows me who I've told this story to believes me and for 6 months I left it alone to try and forgive and forget but it was brought up again out of the blue and I couldn't help myself and had another helping of pain and suffering.I've talked this over with my mother for months who has been cheated on for over 20 years by my father and she understands where I'm coming from. More objective friends understand where I'm coming from but I'm the one left to deal with it. I will not see her again for another 6 weeks but until then any insight is appreciated to help me parse this issue. I feel strongly that I can't forgive myself or anyone for this situation and that it may have to end despite how much I love her. Only time will tell...
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2013): She NEVER CHEATED. You two were not together. Hello??
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2013): I'd like to point out that it was YOU who wasn't sure about her and left her in the 'friend zone' for that summer. She had every right to date other people, massage anyone she wanted, do whatever the heck she wanted. You were not together, you were not 'dating' and you were not exclusive. It's her private information. You are being absolutely horrible to her. I hope she smartens up and leaves you. The problem here is not with her and her lie, but with you and your head. You're playing manipulative games with her - making her say horrible things she doesn't want to. It's very psychotic really - no love and no empathy towards her. How can you stand being so mean, making the poor girl say dirty things and making who sob? Shame on you.Why don't you go off and start fresh with someone new? For the next girls sake, let her know that from date 1 she cannot date anyone else. Somehow, I think you're going to have problems with the next girl too.As a philosophy major, I would hope you have more insight into your actions and the ability to analyze what you are doing wrong. This is really sick and for any woman reading, painful. I truly hope your girlfriend runs and never looks back.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2013): This situation will continue to bother you until you grow up.I have been with my fiance for over nine years. During the spring of 2012 he became angry, controlling towards me, he began lying about who he was texting, and became close to someone who was an underclassman who was in his class. While he swears nothing happened, there was a morning he went into the drawer where we kept condoms (we were no longer using them because I was on birth control and we were in a monogamous relationship--or so i thought.) when I confronted him about being horrible to me, lying to me about talking to this student, and how he conveniently forgot to mention that he helped her move AND i was certain that the morning of the day he 'helped her move" he went into the condom drawer and somehow the 1 or 2 left of his favorite condoms disappeared...he lied, he told me he didn't take them and that he didn't know where they went. I called bullshit on his story. I told him I knew that he was lying and I know him so well that I always know when he lies to me. I told him he had no reason to have gone into that drawer that morning. He continued to tell me he has never cheated on me.Things got worse for us before they started to get better. I brought up the 'condom incident' twice more over the next few months and only during extremely angry an heated arguing. The last time we argued and it got brought up I finally got him to understand that I knew he cheated, any further lying to me about anything was unacceptable, I was prepared to accept the lie that he didn't cheat and never bring it up again as long as he promised to stop taking me for granted. Since then, we have spent months working on appreciating one another, learning how to properly communicate with one another, and we've especially been focused on not directing our anger at outside problems towards one another.If you are not prepared to accept your relationship and girlfriend as they are, then break up with her NOW! It has been over a year since my fiance cheated on me. Instead of letting that break us up, I decided that I would accept his lie and remain in a relationship with him as long as we worked on making us stronger so nothing like that could ever happen again.Instead of trusting your girlfriend, you have bullied her repeatedly over the course of the relationship about something that happened when you were NOT even a couple. The truth is: you have wasted so much emotion, time and energy in proving to yourself that she lied.The truth is: you believe you are right--but only two people know what happened that night and you aren't either one of them.The truth is: it really shouldn't matter because you weren't together. The truth is: you made your girlfriend hate you because you are nasty, manipulative, and more interested in being right about something than being willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for the sake of your relationship.The truth is: you might be right, but the way you've treated her is just WRONG.
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (28 June 2013):
It's hard to read this. So much pain. Technically she doesn't owe you any truth. I do understand why you want to find out the truth. I also believe that they had sex and the reason why she denied it was because she didn't want to lose you. Darrell I see your point. This is a real tricky one. I still think she had sex with him. I am totally aware also that gut instincts can be wrong.
A relationship is more than black and white terms. When feelings are involved you can't just wipe the slate clean and pretend it never happened. Your friendship with Mike won't be the same again, or maybe he isn't even your friend anymore. Even if they didn't have sex their dalliance was out of line. Mike did not care about your friendship as much.
I would not point fingers here. All I can say is people do stupid things in love, out of love, and fear of love.
When I do lie about things like this, I already accept that this lie could cause me the relationship, or I don't respect my boyfriend enough to let him hear the truth.
As for saying it just for the sake of making you feel better. If I am innocent I won't even play that game. I will just break up without the trust there.
Whether it's the truth or not, I do think that the relationship is over. For future reference guy friends and a girlfriend just don't mix.
What didn't help was that you hear her words, and you still don't know the truth and you are second guessing yourself and doubting your sanity. In a dead end situation like this, and when you can't move on without knowing the truth and obsessing about it there is nothing else to do but to break up.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2013): I feel so so so sorry for your girlfriend. You are tormenting the poor girl. Abuse is not acceptable. I can't believe she is still with you. For her sake, please leave her. Do yourself and especially her a big favor and just leave her. She deserves to be trusted, cherished and loved. What you are doing is horrific.Early in dating, before people are monogomous - when literally they are strangers getting to know one another, all types of things happen. I met my husband March 18th, April 2nd was our first date, April 11th second...I don't remember 3rd-5th dates, but May 4-9 my ex came to visit me while my now husband was on vacation. We slept together (I thought we might be getting back together, the new guy I was dating was still a stranger to me. I had no feelings for him). May 11th, upon return back home, my now husband slept with an ex fling of his. We saw each other again after on May 13th after not seeing each other since April 25th. Our feelings had changed for each other - I realized I didn't want my ex at all and he realized he was done with silly flings. We began exclusively dating May 13th and in July slept together for the first time. It hurts us both, looking back, that the other slept with someone else when we already knew each other. HOWEVER, we were strangers in April and early May - there were no feelings, it was just a few dates, no feelings, just interest.That initial dating period is never black or white - especially in this day and age where people easily sleep with one another.You really need to leave your girlfriend if you are to continue this. You are crushing her spirit, ruining her confidence and abusing her. Seek therapy. Let her go.
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reader, Darrell Goodliffe  +, writes (28 June 2013):
 Hmmmm....I wouldnt say your bad as such, there are a load more things you could do that are worse than this, however, you do need to learn to trust your girlfriend. I can understand why its an issue, because of what she said about when she pursues somebody not getting with somebody else, so therefore it is a trust issue. However, you really do need to cut this out and move on. For one thing, as you said you were not even together.
Of course he told you a different story. He probably wouldnt mind you splitting up so he could have a shot at your girlfriend. Fact is that if your girlfriend was saying this even after you pushed her so far id tend to believe her to be honest. No doubt alot of her upset stems from the lack of trust you are currently showing in her.
You are going to end up destroying this if you are not careful and you will regret it when you do because she obviously is totally into you. I appreciate why you have pushed this but really, you shouldnt take your insecurities out on her, no matter how justified they may feel. Your guilt should be the wake up call you need. I am sure there are reasons you have these issues and you have to address them and with your girlfriends support I am sure you will but dont make the mistake of driving her away, it seriously is not worth it and you will only live to regret it.
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