A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:I'm an atheist (born to Christian parents) and my fiancé is Christian. We both want kids. She recently asked me if I was willing to give them a Christian upbringing when they arrive. I want them to make the decision about a deity when they can think for themselves. So I made an offer to send them to a Christian school where they will be taught about what Christianity is and what it is that Christians believe in along with their normal curriculum of language, science, math etc. I proposed that the house however remain a secular one...no talk of atheism or Christianity or any other religion unless they brought the topic up themselves until they're 21. I suggested that we could both share our opinions on the matter after that threshold. I thought I was being reasonable and impartial, but she didn't think so. She argues that without sending them to Sunday school or talking about her beliefs with them at an early age they would stray away from being good people. Inspite of my best efforts to convince her otherwise, I couldn't. She is upset and says she doesn't want kids if she can't raise them in her faith. We are not getting separated because of this but this debate has been going on for months now and we appear to have reached an impasse. Am I in the wrong here? Was there anything wrong with my proposal? I remember when I left Christianity that I was very angry because I felt like I was being lied to for years by people I loved the most and so much of my time was wasted on something, that to me, was ignorant and false. Is there anyway we can make this situation more impartial? I urge you to be objective and answer as if you were advising an inter-religious couple both religions being fundamentally different from your own.
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female
reader, aunt honesty  +, writes (19 December 2017):
 For me personally I would not have the children be brought in to any religion and let them choose when they are older. My personal view is a religion should not be forced on to a child but from another point off view you both have different beliefs and you both need to compromise. Your compromise was a good one, yet she is not willing to budge. It seems to be that she wants it all her way or not at all. Just don't live to regret your decisions.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 December 2017): In terms of sunday school - maybe compromise - that they go twice a month rather than every week. I assume your partner goes to church and you do not. That way you have time to spend with the children and so does your partner (especially when sending them to actual schoon - parting 4 sundays a month is a lot!) Another consideration is taking kids to church is blooming hard work trust me, been there done that and your partner might actually like some time to go and social when it is just her. You could agree to go to any major holidays like xmas and easter together as a family etc. I am not religious but i have been religious - i teach my child christianity in the same way I teach about any "story". You can have discussions. Mum believes such and such, and I believe such and such but what we both agree on (which counts the most) is that we all love each other etc. Pretty sure The Waltons (tv show) had a christian mum and atheist dad, maybe look at that? That it is okay to practice both and mix it up a bit. To raise them showing both sides.
Until you actually have children you won't be 100% on how you are going to raise them. I thought I would have 3 children, all be breastfed until 1, sleep in a cot, wake twice a night and be generally well behaved/mild mannered. In reality I ended up a single none sleeper who bed shared and breastfed for 7 years and he is a stubborn loveable little beast who doesn't do what doesn't interest him. I thought i was going to be raising a gentle soul but i've ended up with a real fighter lol. Your children never do what you want them to do. I also thought I'd send him to school and yet here we are Home Educating. Life has a funny way of turning what you want on it's head when you have children.
I'd say between 8 and 12 is old enough to decide on regligion rather than 21. Children these days are VERY opinionated hahaha.
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female
reader, Andie's Thoughts  +, writes (13 December 2017):
 You could have a great marriage with her, but not parenting because she won't compromise. Either you give in or she won't accept it.
That's why we're saying your relationship probably won't last, as you're not compatible where it counts: raising children.
She wants to raise them Christian and you want to let them choose. You've tried to meet halfway by suggesting a Christian school, but no talk of religion at home. She won't agree to that.
You can't have children until you agree and she refuses to. You can absolutely get married, but you want children and can't if you disagree on how to raise them. That is what's called a deal breaker that will lead to resentment, if not divorce, unless you admit you're not compatible when it comes to parenting.
Your religious differences don't affect your relationship now, but it *will* affect your parenting because she won't compromise.
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female
reader, eyeswideopen  +, writes (13 December 2017):
 Two of the main causes for divorce are disagreements over money or children. You are having one at the get go. It does not bode well for you.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 December 2017): I'm Catholic, but my parents are an inter-religious couple (Catholic and Hindu). I went to Catholic school and we celebrated holidays belonging to both religions at home. As far as religion was concerned, there has never been an issue because my parents' respect each others' beliefs. As a child, I was not confused...it was only later when I grew up I realized how lucky I was that religious discord was never an issue. And trust me, religious differences are BIG stumbling blocks. You may not think of it now...as you both grow older,you will only get more entrenched in your beliefs.Kids don't understand the kind of logic you are expecting them to have, to make observations critically and then decide at 21. You yourself had to reach a certain age before you decided to become an atheist. Kids see what is done,mimic that without thinking intricate details of how something came to be. How can you expect never to talk about any religion at home if you expect your kids to make informed decisions? To me secular doesn't necessarily mean free from discussions on religions, but free from endorsing particular religious point of view. In your case, the religions are Christianity and Atheism. Your future spouse is Christian and will definitely pray etc. as Christians do. Can you prevent your children from seeing this? What about when mom goes to church? I think you are being very naive in that the kids can live separate realities: one in school, one at home,one looking at mom, one looking at dad. You are going to raise confused kids. In my case,my parents both believe in God. As an atheist, you are completely opposite in (non) belief compared to your fiance.I personally believe religious compatibility is vital in marriage. Even though my parents have different religions and successfully negotiated the differences,as a child of such an upbringing, I will not repeat the same. My partner and I would have to have the same religions. This is not because of my staunch beliefs (I'm more spiritual than religious) but because consistency and stability makes the most sense for kids. Secondly,I don't think it's fair for either spouse not to be able to instill their values in their kids. So...similar religion is the best course (for me). You may not realize it but a child's identity incorporates many aspects from parents,who are the first examples for them. This includes wanting to have or do things similar to their parents. They want to be just like dad or just like mom and what you are offering will alienate them.Your fiance is right in this case...objectively you are being naive and short-sighted. Maybe a little wilful as I think you know better.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (12 December 2017): OP, agreeing to disagree on beliefs and marry is great, but not when it comes to children. There's no point marrying if you can't AGREE on how to raise your children.Also, BrownWolf, lots of Christians are not good people. No religion ensures they will be a good person. Lots of Christians swear, lie, cheat, etc. The same way that lots of fantastic people are not Christians, never have been and don't swear, lie, cheat or steal.OP, the problem here is that you can't have children unless you agree on how to raise them. You two can not agree on how to raise them - that's why we're saying your relationship won't last, unless you make the irresponsible decision to go ahead and have children with someone who wants them to be raised differently than you do.
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male
reader, BrownWolf  +, writes (12 December 2017):
If you truly understood what Christianity wants from us, then you would gladly bring you kids up with as much of it as possible.
Christianity has a LOT of false teaches, and GOD already warned us about them.
But true Christianity is this...
" love one another, and be kind and humble with one another. Do not pay back evil with evil or cursing with cursing; instead, pay back with a blessing, because a blessing is what God promised to give you when he called you."
"If you want to enjoy life
and wish to see good times,
you must keep from speaking evil
and stop telling lies.
You must turn away from evil and do good;
you must strive for peace with all your heart."
Do you not want your kids to grow up being kind to others? Not hating, cursing, lying, stealing, robbing people, not cheating... And the list goes on.
People will try to tell you to do the opposite of all that...why? I is more fun to do the wrong things, than the right things.
Just like you...It is much easier not to believe in GOD who sets those rules in place, and for you to do as you like, than follow those rules.
GOD says do not steal...People say screw that and steal anyway, because they do not like to follow rules. Then they get arrested and sent jail, where they have to follow rules every second of the day. Does that make sense???
Teach your kids to be loving and kind to others. To help those in need...That is what true Christianity is all about. Loving and treating others they way you would want to be loved and treated.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (12 December 2017): Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm sorry I forgot to make note of the code to reply. Just to clarify, we've been together for 7 years and we've agreed to disagree on our beliefs... We respect each others opinions.We discuss the issue,but we never have a fight over it. We actually met when I was still Christian and she has seen me de-convert after 2 years of being together. We are both happy with the relationship and have already made the decision to be married and are thrilled about it. That was not the question. I want to know what the best option to give kids would be so they get a fair perspective on both philosophies and make an informed decision when have the maturity to do so. Surely there are couples out there who are atheist-christian and have kids? How do they raise their children?
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 December 2017): If you're an atheist; find a woman with the same views. There is no room for such a compromise according to her faith.
With a woman with your own stance and views on religion; you wouldn't have to negotiate the terms of how she would raise the children. There wouldn't be contradiction and confusion for the children. Seeing their parents always at odds. Wondering why you wouldn't believe as their mother does, and as they are being taught. A father and mother work as a team. Even two religions can be practiced in one home; but in your case, you're an atheist.
Children do not need to see total contradiction in their parent's values and beliefs. They need to see harmony, consistency, and compatibility. You're offering her a business-deal or contractual-agreement regarding the faith and religious-values she wishes to impart in the children.
Sorry, but religious-faith isn't something you strike-up or trade-off in a deal! That's blasphemous! As she will no doubt inform you!
If she is wise, she will not marry you. If you feel so strongly, how can you sit by and watch their mother "lie" to them; while educating and feeding them falsehoods (as you see it) without intervention?
You will relent to your old-school culture and tradition. You will likely assume your dominant-male patriarchal-role in the marriage; and your male-ego will compel you to override her teachings, and nullify her religious views first chance you get. You will not forgo any opportunity to explain to the children why you don't believe. You really think she will stand for that? Placing doubt in their minds after schooling them to believe?
Watching Christianity being practiced in your household will be like being forcibly subjected to it yourself. You'll feel as though your children were being brainwashed. In turn, she will be resentful and uncomfortable; knowing you think her beliefs are nothing more than fantasy. It's not like telling children there's a Santa Claus. From your point of view, it is.
I think you still want the woman; but you don't have the same values. I also think you will undermine her beliefs the whole time. You seem to harbor some strong resentment against Christianity. I've never met an atheist with a neutral or tolerant stance on religious belief. You won't stand still and passively let people try and proselytize you! At some point, she will try!
I don't think children should be raised in a household with extreme opposing views about the existence of a deity. Your views are polar-opposites. Christians spout scripture and say blessing and prayers. They carry bibles and preach all over the place! I'm wondering how much of it you can stand?
In the real-world, both parents usually want to instill their own values and belief-systems in their children. I don't believe you're being honest or genuine at all. I think you're telling her what she wants to hear; and you'll pull a switch on her somewhere down the line. Mother believes, but father says it's all nonsense.
Christians don't place themselves in the position that they have to compromise, negotiate, nor denounce their belief in the living God. The Bible forbids it. I think you brought up a hypothetical issue about kids basically to test her faith and how much you'll have to put-up with her religion. It wasn't about children, I think it was about you!
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female
reader, mystiquek + ♥, writes (12 December 2017):
 I agree with O2DuszJ. Your views are total opposites and with the way that you both feel, unless someone crumbles and gives in a little, your relationship will always have this big rift in it. Religion is extremely important to some and they will not bend, will not compromise their beliefs even for someone that they love. Nothing wrong with that but your relationship/marriage will most likely not be able to stand the stress and cracks that will form in the foundation. Best to go your separate ways now instead of getting married fighting all the time and then locked in a bitter angry divorce with children in the midst of it.
My mother was brought up as Catholic. My father wasn't but he converted to the Catholic church to make her happy. He honestly could have cared less either way but did go to church quite faithfully. I was forced to go through all the Catholic beliefs until I was 17 and moved out and got on my own. I am a very spiritual person but didnt like ideas and faith being forced on me. I resented being raised as a Catholic because the older I got the more I questioned the faith and no one could give me answers when I asked questions. I am not knocking the Catholic religion, it just wasn't for me.
I do totally understand where you are coming from but I doubt seriously if you two will ever come to an agreement with the faith issue, and trust me, it WILL cause problems in the future.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 December 2017): Kids do not have their own beliefs until they are much older. People often mistaken kids views as their own when in reality they pick them up from elsewhere. So your kids will either pick up yours, your fiancee’s, or whatever they are being taught at school/outside. The problem here is that your views clash and your kids will pick up on that. Your proposal means that they will pick up Christianity at school and then face the opposite at home. They’re not going to see “two sides” and make their own decision as you may wish as that is not how kids view things. Instead, they will be confused and this kind of uncertainty is problematic to child development. Children absorb, they do use have critical thinking or judgement like adults. A proposal to incorporate both beliefs only makes sense if it were just you and your fiancée involved. However you cannot “compromise” when children are involved. They need stability and everything to be certain. You can only raise them Christian or atheist in this case. That’s why I agree with your fiancée— either choose one another or choose to have kids with someone compatible. She is smart to not want to bring kids into this situation. This type of incompatibility is unhealthy in its own let alone bringing children into this. That would be wrong.
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female
reader, 02DuszJ +, writes (11 December 2017):
 You have very strong views that CLASH with her also strong views.. you can't agree and whichever way it eventually swings one of you will end up resenting the other.. this stuff is causing a great divide,even when it's hypothetical- what's it going to be like if it ACTUALLY happens? It's like if one of you is labour and the other conservative and you join the conservatives, end up making all these decisions,where she's opposing you the whole time.. resenting every word you utter.. would you be able to live like that? Just an uphill struggle..
I honestly think it will be hell to save the relationship if you did have kids- you'd constantly be on opposite sides.. we'll say it over and over again on this site but compatability is more important than love! You need something more than biological feelings to hold you together in reality..
Honestly these issues are too close to both your hearts- and I don't think anyone should have to compromise those strong values to submit to their partner. I think it is in both your interests and hypothetical kids interests to do the difficult thing and end it now, as this is not a minor issue, it's a MAJOR incompatibility. Good luck
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female
reader, Andie's Thoughts +, writes (11 December 2017):
Why 21? That's pretty old. Most teens can decide for themselves.Anyway, I think your compromise was fair, but she doesn't want to compromise and that's why this will sadly not work out.I'm all for people having their own beliefs, but thinking a child won't be a good person unless raised Christian is a load of baloney and somewhat delusional.Dramatically lower the age you set, as it's unrealistic, but explain to her that most of the good people in the world weren't raised as Christian and it's the values you teach that lead to the type of person they become, not the religion you raise them in.If she doesn't understand that and compromise, you will not have a successful relationship, let alone parenting situation. Don't risk children with her unless she compromises and, if she doesn't, your relationship has unfortunately met a dead end because this is a deal breaker.
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