A
male
age
51-59,
*i-V7-1
writes:I am 46 years old. My wife is 37. About six months ago, we were doing a book together called "All About Me", as a way to build intimacy. Unfortunately what the book did was practically ruin my life. A portion of the book asked what our number of sexual partners has been. In my head I was thinking that my fiance at the time, had 5. When she said 25, I felt a dramatic change in me and I have not been the same since. I have cried every day since then, have felt enourmouse anxiety, depression and panic at times. I have been struggling with why I reacted this way and why this information has affected me so. I have told her about my struggles, and although she has been understanding, I think that continuing to discuss this is like beating a dead horse and only makes her feel bad. I noticed how finding out about how many men she has slept with, triggered some chore insecurities in me. I am fully aware of how illogical this all seems and that the past is just that. I just don't know how to reconcile her past in a way that I can manage and ultimately have it not bother me. I have read about this and it appears that I may be suffering from what is called Retroactive Jealousy. Why is this bothering me so much and what can I do about it?
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female
reader, rile962 +, writes (6 August 2011):
I don't know how this fits into the discussion, but I want to mention it because I've found it interesting. My boyfriend suffers from RJ; I don't. When I start imagining him with past lovers, when the images come to a certain point, I feel what I would describe as a "block" come up, and I can't take my imagination any further. I feel as though an automatic shut-off switch is activated and it's easy to turn my thoughts aside to some other subject. If I force myself to imagine further details, the images become very general and fuzzy, and it's easy for me to say to myself, "That was the past. He's with me now. He had fun then, and I'm glad about that, etc, etc," and again, it's easy for me to turn my thoughts aside. BUT...let's say my boyfriend would flirt with another woman, now, in the present. My imagination can run wild with fear and unsolicited images of what COULD happen. Then I have a more difficult time turning away from the images, centering myself in the present, and realizing that I'm safe and whole no matter what my boyfriend chooses to do. Just a thought, and not sure how it relates to the topic, but it struck me how differently individuals can relate to past or future thoughts.
A
male
reader, ii-V7-1 +, writes (31 July 2011):
ii-V7-1 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWe need to look at the feelings that jealousy creates. Jealousy is ultimately a fear of being abandoned because you don't measure up. It also is stronger as the value you place on the other increases. Of course jealousy may seem very illogical when it is based on what happened in the past. What makes RJ so incessant is that while thinking about the past, usually all imagined, the feelings that arise are fear of abandonment because we start comparing ourselves with past lovers and worrying if we measure up. Sex is usually the barometer. We fear that if we don't measure up, we will be abandoned. If in fact someone were to leave us because we didn't 't measure up sexually, then would we want to be with someone like that anyway? There is so much more that goes into making a long term relationship successful. Men tend to place a high value on sexual performance and play the comparison game. I know that has been my focus these past few months as I struggle with RJ. My wife did not just marry me for sex. I treat her like a gem, honor her and protect her. What makes RJ hard is not necessarily the amount of men my wife slept, but intrusive, repetitive, obsessive thoughts about what she was doing sexually with men before me. Again, comparing. I believe that the greatest purpose that jealousy serves is ensuring that we don't take our loved one for granted. We don't own them and need to feel blessed that they are on our lives. Nobody seems immune from jealousy but it can be our greatest teacher.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (31 July 2011): It seems to me that jealousy is almost always illogical to some extent, but merely making this observation doesn't make it go away.
Some men are married to porn stars, and it doesn't bother them a bit. Their wives perform all sorts of sexual acts with other men on a regular basis, but it simply doesn't generate feelings of jealousy in some men. This appears to be a perfectly logical response. The sex acts she performed with other men on any given day are "in the past" and "not real" by the time he gets home from work. If it doesn't interfere with her attraction to him, why should it matter if 5 other men did all sorts of things with her earlier in the day? Logically, what difference does it make if the sex acts occured 3 hours ago or 3 years ago? Granted, he knew her before she had the sex acts in the case of a porn star wife, but why should this make any difference logically?
For purposes of discussion, if a man walks in on his wife and discovers another men hitting her and causing her pain, it seems logical that he would react with anger and take action to protect her. Now imagine that a man walks in on his wife and finds her having sex with another man, screaming from the sexual pleasure. Logically, this is the opposite of another man causing his wife pain. Logically, the other man is provding his wife with great pleasure. Logically, the man should be extremely grateful to the other man for causing the one he loves so much pleasure.
But, how many men would react in this way? If the man was jealous and upset in this situation, would that mean he was judgemental, controlling, insecure, and further indicate that he is suffering from psychological problems of some sort?
One could explain the jealousy as being logical in that the man is genetically predisposed to be averse to his loved one being impregnated by another man, thus causing him to waste his limited resources raising another man's child. But, what if the other man is performing oral sex on his wife? This cannot result in pregnancy. What if the man knows his wife is infertile?
Jealousy would not be logical. But, I do think it would be understandable. We are humans, not robots. We are not always logical.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (30 July 2011): If a friend told me they were sad or angry or anxious, then I would not just assume I could sum up their whole situation with one sentence. "You are feeling 'X' because you have 'Y' problems".
I don't know why people think RJ is always going to be so simple. It's an insult to the person dealing with it.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 July 2011): For what it's worth, my theory is that RJ is primarily an emotional response that is generated by a subconscious part of the brain that is unable to fully distinguish between a real event and your imagined image of a past event. If you keep feeding images and thoughts to your subconscious mind, it will keep generating jealous emotions.
For some reason, some people don't seem to have this; it's as if their subconscious brain doesn't react in the same way because it somehow "knows" it's not a real image that is being generated and supplied to it. As far as I can tell, if you're "wired" to feel jealousy even if an event is in the past (and the image in your mind is entirely made up), it's very difficult or impossible to rewire your brain. Telling yourself that you're being a hypocrite, that you're being illogical, etc., doesn't seem to help much.
But, I do think that recognizing that it's illogical can help motivate you to mitigate the effects in other ways. In my experience, there's no real "solution" for this. You just have to decide that thinking about it is destructive, you don't want to do it, and try to think about something else. This may or may not help, but I visualize putting the thoughts in a closed box in my mind whenever they come up. It might have helped a little.
I've tried seeing a counselor, but I've had limited success. If I understand her perspective, she thinks that this type of thing (at least in my case) is related to a deep seated fear of losing something resulting from the way I was raised. So far, for me at least, trying to resolve it by finding a "core reason" hasn't really helped all that much.
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male
reader, ii-V7-1 +, writes (29 July 2011):
ii-V7-1 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionJealousy is a fascinating emotion. I can feel crazy jealous about my wife having sex with 25 guys before me but feel much less jealous about her talking to guys in the present and I don't imagine crazy scenarios like I do about her past. Maybe the fact that I can't size these guys up is the crux of the matter. The past is no threat at all yet I get all depressed and anxious about it. Very odd.
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male
reader, Yos  +, writes (29 July 2011):
 I don't believe retroactive jealousy serves a purpose. I believe it's more of a "bug in our system". Jealousy in small, normal amounts is beneficial for relationships: it reminds us we need, love and depend on each other.
When it becomes all consuming and obsessive it is terribly damaging. It is I believe a mental disorder.
As someone who experienced crippling RJ, and came through it intact, I can say that if you can beat it many positives can come of it afterwards. But not during.
From what you have written you seem to have the right mindset towards overcoming it. I can suggest you read the link at the bottom of this thread, as well as look through my post history here for many other discussions on the subject.
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male
reader, Yos +, writes (29 July 2011):
I don't believe retroactive jealousy serves a purpose. I believe it's more of a "bug in our system". Jealousy in small, normal amounts is beneficial for relationships: it reminds us we need, love and depend on each other.
When it becomes all consuming and obsessive it is terribly damaging. It is I believe a mental disorder.
As someone who experienced crippling RJ, and came through it intact, I can say that if you can beat it many positives can come of it afterwards. But not during.
From what you have written you seem to have the right mindset towards overcoming it. I can suggest you read the link at the bottom of this thread, as well as look through my post history here for many other discussions on the subject.
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male
reader, ii-V7-1 +, writes (20 July 2011):
ii-V7-1 is verified as being by the original poster of the question Rectroactive jealousy, and any jealousy for that matter, is about self love and preserving the ego. It is also a fear of abandonment which makes RJ even more irrational since it is due to past events. Somehow because my wife is now part of my life, everything she did before we met, is up for scrutiny. I have yet to see what purpose this serves.
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female
reader, rile962 +, writes (20 July 2011):
Oh, the agonies of those who suffer from RJ, and the agonies they pour out upon those they love! None of us choose such pain, but here we are in it. How do we apply love? How do we apply forgiveness? My partner doesn't need my forgiveness for his past actions, for those places where I violate his past and insert my ego where it doesn't belong, so I overlay those past images with graciousness and love, and turn my eyes to the present.He, however, cannot do this for me because he suffers from RJ, a term I had never heard before 1 week ago, but which explains EXACTLY what has attacked our relationship. Ah! If only I would have known! If only, if only...I'm the anon poster whose piece was copied and pasted by Tisha-1, and which is referenced by person12345 in the first response to this question. I'm on a mission to understand and grow, and if possible, to salvage my relationship with this crazy, wonderful man I fell in love with. If the relationship can't be saved, then I must have the empathy to forgive him, not for his past, but for his current actions and attitudes which he directs toward me.We who love those who suffer from RJ are also suffering. Life should not be so hard...
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reader, ii-V7-1 +, writes (20 July 2011):
ii-V7-1 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionLet me clarify. We didn't do the book because we were having intimacy issues. It was just a way to get to know each other better. In retrospect, I now know that certain information was hard for me to digest, the number of her sexual partners, but I didn't know it would bother me this much going in. Why it bothers me is the question I need to ask myself and resolve because the feelings attached with this type of jealousy need to stop for the sake of of our marriage and my mental health.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (20 July 2011): "we were doing a book together called "All About Me", as a way to build intimacy."
So, there must be intimacy issues that led to this, correct?
Remember, the advice you get here comes from people that don't know your full situation, and they are basically responding from their past experiences, which may be relationships that were all shit. But, you can get some advice that can be helpful.
If you have intimacy issues, finding out why they exist is important. That actually may have to do with sexual past experiences and relationship issues. Some counselors do advise "total disclosure" of all issues. Here is one group that does http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4503_phq.html on their questionnaire. Truly, there is nothing more intimate that laying it all out there and each other accepting the other for who they are in total. But, some people aren't wired that way. You will get some guys, and some gals, who will go nuts because their wife or gf has had sex with 1 person before them.
In the absence of professional counseling assistance, this can do harm that is not mitigated by understanding that a good counselor can help with.
There are lots of reasons people have a lot of sexual partners, and yes 25 is a large number, way up there on the percentile scales. Now, someone may come on here and say, "that't not that many, I've had 200", well, that has a lot to do with them, and nothing to do with your marriage or you. But, really, the numbers simply don't matter, what really matters is the emotional issues underlying it all.
My marriage had severe intimacy issues. My wife never wanted me to know the truth about her past. It really caused a lot of damage, she knew I would leave her if it ever came out. She knew a lot of things about how I would react to the drugs, sex, and rock and roll period of her life, and what happened in her prior relationships and prior marriage.
The problem was that she was wrong on all counts, made assumptions that were totally incorrect, and therein the damage started entering in to our intimacy, emotionally we simply were not intimate at the level a marriage should have. How could we be when we lived in a town where old lovers would be seen and run into at various places, and there had been a lot of old lovers. The, when all else failed in relationships, she had the misfortune, or fortune, of running into someone who was raised in a extremely conservative religious sect, where sex before marriage was anathema, and where divorce was forbidden, who left the sect, and was educated and liberal, and nothing like his parents, but also had lived a life that was nothing like hers. My wife and I should have been in counseling from the first date, it might have saved us a lot of trouble.
It took us far to long to get help, and even then the help wasn't helpful for a long time, because there was so much damage, and my wife had preconceptions about me and my reactions, that I simply could not understand where she got them from, and which preconceptions led her to not talk openly, even with her counselor in private, or with our couples counselor.
After a couple of years of counseling, she was able to see that those preconceptions came from her childhood, her prior relationships, and the way her prior husband had viewed her, and had nothing to do with how I saw her.
So, best advice I can give you is to get professional assistance, you clearly need it, your marriage clearly needs it, and your wife clearly needs it.
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male
reader, ii-V7-1 +, writes (20 July 2011):
ii-V7-1 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAlot of people, don't seem to understand that those suffering from this don't choose it. Why would I choose the pain that comes with this kind of jealousy?
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male
reader, Red Green 0289 +, writes (20 July 2011):
Wow, it amazes me how many men want the "truth" and then can not handle it. This is a great example as to why we don't need to share such details... if you love our wife the number is irrelevant.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (20 July 2011):
 http://www.dearcupid.org/question/retrograde-jealousy.html
The piece Tisha-1 copied and pasted is a spectacular description/understanding of this.
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