A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:Hi. My husband recently has gotten a little physcally abusive, and has forced blow jobs on my a couple of times when he was drunk.. I guess I wanted to get it off my chest, but I was just going to deal with it. I already forgave him. But then last night I was partying with him and his family, and his brother's gf told me how he did this and that, and in response, my drunken way of helping her, was to say "oh thats ok.. my husband sexually abused me and beat me up once" I don'ot remember saying it, but that's what I was told I said. He didn't' beat me up, he just mishandled me. Well then, my husbna'd brother told his dad what I said. And now his dad is saying if we don't get counseling and find a name and number ot give him within two days, he'll tell my parents. I just fucked everything up. I shouldn't have said that! And now his brother, his brother's girlfriend, his mom and his dad know about it. And i feel aweful! I couldn't sleep last night... I can't concentrate on school... I am embarrassed to be around them.. and i feel so bad for letting our personal business out. I desperately don't want his family to see him differently, or to be mad... THey love him and they're just trying to help, but I don't know how to deal with this. I don't know how to fix it... I keep appologizing to my husband and he says its not my fault.. but I can't seem to feel any better.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (11 July 2010):
 "i was yelling and crying for someone.. ANYONE to help me"
Sweetheart. This has gone on long enough. Tell your parents and his parents. Don't try to solve this by yourself. You can't.
Get the professional help you need now. Because you need it now.
A
female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (11 July 2010):
 You never answered my question..
What are these lie's he tells about "EVERYTHING"?
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (11 July 2010):
I know.. I know.. I know you was close to giving up on life.. I know that you were angry and would calm down and want to stay..
Your scared about the future, your scared to stand alone. But this marriage isn't working.. Baby girl, YOU TRIED TO CUT YOUR WRIST, YOU TRIED TO DIE!!!!
You cannot stay, you cannot, he makes you unhappy. Be brave, you were brave enough to give love, even though love in the past has let you down.
You were brave enough to trust this man, you will trust another person one day.
Your little girl, what is best for her... Children get badly fucked up when their mothers kill themselves.
Take it slowly, your going on a holiday, think of it as a seperation, a holiday, a space for you to get strong. Work on healing yourself, work on making yourself a person your proud of and you can actually like.
That's the best thing you can do for your husband, his and your family and your beautiful baby daughter..
Have courage, you are a brave woman, you've had tough times, this is another tough thing. But you've suffered worse, you can do this thing, you can get strong, you will thrive and live.
I believe in you. You are young, I see so much happiness in your future to come.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (11 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm amazed that your prayed for me.. you don't even know me. Thank you.
I guess it was only temporary, i've lost my courage, but he still wants me to leave. Now I really feel ike crap.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): believe or dont believe...but i was praying for you last night... angry is good. angry gets things done...apathy will destroy you, acceptance will rob you o your self worth...but anger brings strength and strength brings change. hugs sweetie
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI am sorry to frighten you.
I gave you half of my experince, but did i say the rest?
I was struggling.. fading fading.. closer and closer to doing somehting stupid.. i called mu husband, he hung up on me and told me to ask the neighbor. that made me feel worse. I called the hotline, but i knew the guy was typing the whole time and trying to get personal information. I said "i dont want yall to call the police or something and i get locked in a ward for five years." and he said "it would be that long".. lol.. so i knew i had to watch my mouth. Drunk as i was, i can't believe i was so good at it.
ANd there I was again.. struggling strugglin... i started carving a line in my wrist (sorry if thats graphic but its true).. i was yelling and crying for someone.. ANYONE to help me, then just like that....
I changed. I was no longer hurt, i was angry. I was angry at him and I wanted to leave.
I've never felt this strong before... but i know now that it's the right thing to do.... it makes me want to believe in a God.. i have trouble with that but.. maybe someone out there really does care about just little ol' me.?
I think that's amazing.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks you for all of your kindness.
We made a plan. I will move in with my brother and his wife, a few states over. I can't go for another month and a half or so, so for now i'll deal with everything as it is. He'll keep our daugther for the weekk while i get settled in and then he'll drive her stuff up to me in a uhaul van. (crib, high chair, other furniture), etc.
He said when he has extra money, he'll send it.
I haven't seen him this nice since before he came home.
This is going to be really hard :/
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): we are here or you honey night or day...you have strength that you dont know you have...miamine speaks for me when she talks to you. i dont know how you feel nor will i be patronizing and pretend that i do...but miamine does...she is a true friend. listen to her and tisha...and know we are all here holding your hand...saying...go girl you can do this. you can find help...you deserve better than this. so life has been so bad to this point but you have survived hard times. you have grit and guts...we are here cheering for you, caring and encouraging. my contribution is not much...just a note to say we care. there are more of us reading than you know and you have touched our hearts. we care. keep us posted sweetheart. mal
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
Yep, I know you was drinking.. you had me frightened for a while... but you came back and I knew then that you would be alright..
Again, thanks for putting me mind at rest.. No problems, we all do stuff when we is hurting, I've been there meself. If your feeling strong enough, it might be a good idea to read over some of the stuff that you said. Your are very angry, and living with him is making you feel bad enough to want to die... Of course we all want you to leave him, you know that, we'll support this decision 100%.
Intresting that you think he lies about EVERYTHING (as you put it)
lol.. hope your head is alright, drink lots of water and fruit juice, I promise it helps. :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSorry guys. I got myself really drunk last night in hopes that i would pass out and not finish the night badly for myself. I passed out. I wss feeling really down, attempting to end it, then i begged to some unknown power for help and my feelings changed 100% from hurt to anger. I have been feeling angry sicne then; no tears, no aching chest, so hoping he'll call or come home. I don't care, because I realize I don't love him. I was still in love with him because I was clinging onto some hope that in some way, he's still a loving, caring husband. But he is not. I think I will move... several states down is my only optino, but I need to get away from him, I think.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
Now we are friends and you are well, I feel better.. Are you able to sleep now? Tomorrow will come soon enough.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
Ah thank you dearest for coming back and putting my mind at rest... that was real kind of you, as I said I was getting worried.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionNo. he never wanted me to have any friends. i have non one else. :(
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
I am worried about you right now.. please update your post and tell me your alright.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
I'm very worried about you right now.. keep the hotline number nearby and you call them if the feelings get any worse. I need you to calm down, cause you won't be thinking straight..
It is better you talk about this lying thing in the morning, at the moment it's just making you angry.
Things look black right now, but life has a way of changing.. Do not make the mistake of thinking that your life will always be this way. You must make the choice to live, to survive, to thrive and to do well...
Is there anyone you can call who can come over and sit with you?
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionBecause honestly, id rather be beat every day, then lied to every day. I'm sick ofhim lieing to me i rally am. he wont stop i don't even kow him. I left something out, but i will say it now. I am suicialslal. He knows this. I rarely mentionn it incase i need help, becuae I want to be happy one day, i don't want to end it here by mistake. so i asked him, and he hung up on me and told me to ask the neigbor. this showed me that he is incapable of feelings anthing and i cant do with that because i am so weak alreadt he doesn't care enough abut my life to just CALL ME i called a hot line and thu guy help[ed for now.. im so lost.. i e3ven texted my brother for help.. who raped me..
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
I'm listening, and thinking...
So he lies does he?
Why are you so upset about this friend when the other things don't seem to bother you?
I notice your not sad or numb anymore, no you sound mad.. not good if he's been drinking.. arguements this late at night usually end up bad.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionthing is.. he pretendingded to hate the friend he's with, because he's treated me like shit.
and now he's over therE?
what the hell is going on ?
why doeshe lie about EVERYTHING?
he's tld me multi[le times before that he has no hope of me believing him about anyting.. does he have no hope because i hvae trust issues, or because hecan't tell the truth??
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questiontonight he said he was going ot his uncles house to drink with a bunch of people neither of us knew, but i tried not to worry about it. Later, his uncle texted me saying" "are you coming soon" (he thought i was comg), and then i called and he didn't asnwer. I called his friend, cause i called his dad, worried, and he said he probably at his friends house." so i called hisfriend and he was there, lyeing to me about hwere he went. i asked him to come home. He said he drank too much. His friend said he didnt drink anything. He said he was tryng to cover for him, but he did drink and cant come home. I said please come home, your dad lives four houses down ask himfor a ride. he turned off his phone.
I was to divorce him i can't stand much more of this. I told him i washorribnly in the dumps, and sorry for gtting mad that he was there instead of his uncles and he turned off his phone. I was a dicrove... is this unreasonable?
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
Book an appointment with your doctor and check your blood pressure, stress can be dangerous to you both mentally and physically. Make sure you stop drinking, eat healthy, try to walk or get some excersise, and try and get enough sleep. You must keep your body healthy even though your life is in upset.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
Your body is under stress because you are worried and unhappy. You need some counselling yourself, this isn't only about him, it's about you and how you feel and how you deal with things. Is there another appointment with that counsellor you and him visited. Hopefully she'll ask you some questions too and you can express your unhappiness.
Does your husband know about the abuse you suffered in the past?
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI have a headache every day.. and chest pain, and heart palpitations. does that mean I'm almost there? im not used to abuse from him, because before he left, he was compelte;y different.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
Can you register with Dear Cupid, give yourself a name that is strong and beautiful.. It's uncomfortable talking about my experiences..
When you try to force away the bad feelings and pretend your happy when your not, it comes out in all types of ways. Back pain, head aches, dizziness, the list is endless. You cannot hide your pain like that, if you do, your body will fight back and will show the unhappiness by making you physical sick.
You've been to hell and back, you do need counselling to heal the pain of the past and realise that you deserve happiness. Your husband is abusive, and you don't know because your used to such treatment.
You need to spend a long time talking to someone and working out how to be the woman your supposed to be. I thought your husband was the main problem, but it's more than that... you don't know what life without abuse is.. my heart is crying for you right now.
You are so damned young, you have so much life left, so much time to find happiness.. you cannot settle for less than the wonderfull life you deserve.
We'll take it slowly, your doing well, at least you admitt that what he has done is abusive... one step at a time, you've got the rest of your life to heal from all the pain.. :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionbut hes the only man wholl keep me. he told me .. anyone else would divorce me by day 1.. or 2.. dant remember 1 or 2. so hes the only one. how does it make thigns worse.. how do things come out in the end in ways i cant imagine, please share with me?
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
No, No, No!!!!
That won't work.. I tried it and it eats at your soul and kills you inside.
If you cut yourself off, you'll be frozen inside and out, you won't remember how to smile, you won't know the different between pain and happiness... and in the end it'll all come out in ways you can't imagine...
NO!!!! DON'T DO THAT.. IT MAKES THINGS WORST.
Big hugs honeypie... keep yourself safe, he's only a man, he's not God.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionStill listening, thank you m iamin.
So what do i do when he does or days something that upsets me and i cant tell him how i feel because he simply doesnt care at all and jsut ameks fun o fme and makes me feel worse? because ive learned that lesson not to tell him things adn when he says "whats worong" just say "nothing' cuz otherwuse hell make me feel worse, but now im asking what to do. my plan .. when i said i made up mymind.. was to make my self estteem so low that nothing hurtfil hurts me because i believe it all is what i deserve? het it? i cant explain it too well, but iif you feel that you are worth nothing, and someine says you are worth nothing, than instead of being upset, you will be like "yeah i know" and then its ok. you know so that s what im doing, but im having a little trouble getting to that level cuz when he hurts me i can pretend that nothing is wrong untill he asks for the fourth time, then i tell him, then i feel worse because he jsut says its all my fault, no matter what it s. so i dont know how to get there. and please dont tell me to not get there, beecause since im not there yet, i can tell you its not "healthy" but that depends on your definition of heathy. obviously since the world is mean and cold its best to not care about bad things, because they will always happen, so id rahter get so down on myself that every bad thing that happens is what i should have. so it is healthy... for me at least trust me.. im not supposed to be rich and happy and raising the picture perfect family going home nad having my husabd say "i love you" it just aint in the cards people, so help me pleasE? hwo do i not care whne i cant tell me how ifeel? what do i do ? do i tell a stuffed bear or what???
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (6 July 2010):
Sorry babes, my computer's been down... glad your still posting and trying to work things through..
Yep, I knew it was you... yes he may have been traumatised by war, a lot of guys are, but that still dosen't excuse his behaviour one little bit..
Takes a lot to hurt the woman you claim to love.. from where I'm standing, he dosen't seem to be dealing with his problems at all...
Let me read what's been said... hope your still listening.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (4 July 2010):
I sincerely wish you well, happy and healthy future for you. I am concerned that you think simply making up your mind will change things--you have a great deal of work to do to process the bad stuff that's happened in your life and this coping mechanism of pretending everything is hunky-dory isn't going to be sustainable over time. Especially if you are in a physically abusive relationship.
That's my nag for you.
Life is unfair, some people get dealt rotten hands. But you should take advantage of the help people offer and get yourself squared away so that you can enjoy the next 80 years of your life!!
xxx
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI've made up my mind... I know how i'll live. Thank you everyone. I genuinely appreciate your time and effort. You should be proud of yourselves for being so caring. You have a ton of five star answers for me to go and rate now :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 July 2010): oh sweetheart, here is a hug (u). thinking of you, mal
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (4 July 2010):
That must be very hard for you. That's not a nice feeling to have to feel. :(
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI feel. So loneLY
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (3 July 2010):
Okay, I wondered what the session was like for you. I guess you were okay? And he was... what, accepting?
Knowing how you feel is a big thing. Not many people do, I think. I do yoga, and there's a part of the practice where you just kind of check in with yourself, become a compassionate observer to your own physical and mental well-being. It take some practice and some patience to allow yourself to just observe, not experience anything, just watch yourself and your feelings.
I think if you try to get too far removed from what you are experiencing you're no longer living your life. You are calling it in, not really engaged. Trying to forget every day must be a very draining way to life.
By the way, I am the queen of the Nile (or denial, I always forget...) and know whereof I speak, as I attempted to bury my feelings in food, alcohol, misery and pretense.... It's not a sustainable way of life. You don't want that one.
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reader, anonymous, writes (2 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell, the appointment was for hub, and so the doctor was talking mostly to him. If there was something I felt that I should add, then I did so, which was very helpful a couple of times.
I didn't bring anything up about me, and we didn't talk about our marriage. I guess his dad just wanted him to talk to a therapist about his own mind, so that he could heal his abusive and tempermental mind.
Of course, his dad knows nothing about what's happened to me in my life, so his main objective was to be sure that my husband doesn't hurt me anymore.
I don't really know how I feel to be honest. I don't know how to answer that. I try to just ignore the previous day and start again, so there usually isn't too much going on in my head? I think?
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (2 July 2010):
It's good to hear that you both went to the appointment. You sound very carefully neutral on this. Are your feelings all over the place or are you happy, sad, upset? And how is your husband taking this. He can't be too happy and I would imagine there is a great deal of tension. Did the therapist talk at all about how to manage stress and disagreements? Did any of your past abuse issues come out at all, or did you decide not to bring that up?
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reader, anonymous, writes (2 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWe had the appointment. He did a lot more talking than I thought he would. We didn't talk about that night, and really, it was for him, not for me. So he got some medication and we're supposed to go back in two weeks to check on how it's doing for him.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (1 July 2010):
I'm thinking of you today as you go to your appointment. I hope you're doing well.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI guess I'm just trying to defend myself against people thinking i'm an alcoholic just because I'm not happy
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI thought of something else today.. where we live, drinking is much more common.
Every single person I know gets drunk at least twice a week. I know some people who do it every single day. It does depend on your location, if you drink as much as other people, or less.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAs long as you know I'm taking care of my daughter.
I never partied in high school, and still I only drink with my husband and his family. No one lets anyone else drive home, and we are all there for one another in case somebody gets sick or hurt. I guess I think i drink as much as any one else, because his whole family drinks all the time. I really don't drink to hide or numb myself. But to be honset, I do sometimes throw back a few shots before a gathering, so that I can be more talkative. I'm terribly shy around people, and have a hard time being in large groups. My husband has 14 of his close relatives here, so there's always a large group. My father in law made a joke about taking a couple shots before I go to our appointment, because three or four will not make me noticeably tipsy or anything, it will just make things a lot easier for me to say, because I am less scared of being heard. I'm guessing that's not too good of an idea though :) .
Ocassionally I drink too much, mostly when his brother's gf joins us, because her parents drink a lot and show her how to make really good drinks. So she's always making and handing out mixed drinks.
I guess it's not healthy, but we won't drink like this forever. We just all live so close together.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (30 June 2010):
I did see your post about when you drink. :/
A lot of "anyone else" actually don't drink much at all. And most don't drink till they can't remember what they say. That's drinking to excess. I know there's a youth culture that likes to 'party' and I expect you're part of it still, but let me tell you from personal experience, it is NOT healthy. I lost a very close friend to drinking a few years ago. What drove her to drink till she passed out all the time, I simply don't know. Some hidden pain, some past trauma she never healed from, abuse in her childhood? I don't know and now never will. She never would face it, she never could face the fact that she was living an unhealthy and dangerous life, and now she's dead.
If she had gotten the help she needed, and she probably should have had it at your age, she and I would still be planning our trips together, making each other laugh, celebrate the happy things in our lives and mourn the sad.
You have been given the gift of being believed by HIS family. They are supporting you and want what's best.
Take this help and seize it. Really go for it. Tell the therapist EVERYTHING. Don't smile and put on that facade and pretend you just need to be a little bit strong. Don't hide that deep hurt. Be honest about the pain and the past.
That's the way to a happy and healthy future. You're not getting there without admitting you have a problem. If you squash this, if you lie and cover up, you will stay right where you are, miserable and unhappy with an abusive partner and a drinking problem. You are stuck.
It is time to start on the healing path. Seize this opportunity with both hands and clutch it to your heart.
Go be well.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDid you catch my post about our daughter when we drink?
I know it sounds bad that I drink but I only do it as often as anyone else.
Ill fill you in on my appointment after thursDay :D
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
Oh that's good news. I'm thinking about you and hope it is a good start for you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI have an appointment this week. I made it today. His brother is going to watch our daughter, and then he said we can go out on a date afterward and he'll keep her for a while longer. :)
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): None of us can help you till you realize it is your husband who is in the wrong. Why else his own family wanting him to get help? they know he is not right and he needs help. You need to see that too and protect your baby.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
Q understood my point. Which is that under the influence, you tell people what's bothering you. Like the comment to your in-laws, which then has triggered this set of events. Or that last message which so clearly showed the battered-wife thinking that is so carefully hidden the rest of the time.
The apologies for causing a problem, taking all the blame onto yourself. You have dissonant stuff going on in your head. Part of you knows the way you've been treated is not right, and the other part is desperately backpedaling hoping not to make waves. You won't be able to submit enough and it'll get better. That's not how this situation works, from what I understand.
Did you make the call today? To make the appointment and begin this process?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): "I accidentally told my husband's family that he abused me and now everythings messed up, how can I fix this?"
there are no accidents.
Perhaps you are not aware of this at a conscious level yet because this self-induced numbness you have been living in all these years has not worn off, but your mind has reached its critical point. The time has come for you to break free of this condition, to no longer need in this masochistic fantasy world where it is allowable or conceivable for a victim to continue to love or care for whom abuses her, no matter how intense the need to do so is.
The catalyst that has led to this shift in dynamic is the fact that you are a parent now, you saw your daughter come into this world and grow up this past year, and you realize you are responsible for another life now...one which you hold more dear than your own. You know that every decision that you make will trickle down on her, and you know that her chances of happiness largely depend on her mother's well-being.... you know the right thing to do for you and your daughter.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionLittle admissions of the truth? You mean that he was deployed? Mostly I didn't give that away because I knew that some, especially you would immediately identify who I am, and I didn't want to be seen like that from every one on DC. It wasn't to hide anything about us or him.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionMy mother and father were seperated. My mother was going to move, and asked my father to take us while she did so. He took that opportunity to take us away to another state, because I was being sexually abused by my mothers boyfriend. He wanted to protect me. He put us up for adoption without her permission.
Don't worry. I am blessed that my daughter sleeps from 2100 to 1100 the next morning. If both of us are drinking, we save it for when she is sleeping. If one of us is, it doesn't matter, because the oher is always left. And when we are home alone, we don't drink enough to make us uncoordinated, so that we can take care of her just in case.
Please don't assume that i'm not taking care of her. I did it alone for a long time, and I'm not about to let anything happen to her.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
"Maybe I don't think it's a big deal because my brother raped me when I was in fifth grade, I've been kidnapped, illegally put up for adopted, then physically and emotionally abused by my adoptive father. It's like.. this is just how it's supposed to be for me. I'm not sure why, but whoever created me, has this plan for me. So i'm trying to accept it.. and now I have people telling me I'm not supposed to? Then I've been living my life wrongly? But this is what's been handed to me.. and this is how i'm getting through it."
You were taken away from your mother and father because..... because why? Because she couldn't handle her alcohol? Because she was battered by her husband and so you in turn thought this was the normal?
I find it very telling that you may be recreating the very situation for your daughter, that set you on this path. Kind of a cycle of life.
You want this bluntly? I don't think you're living your life 'wrongly.' I think you're doing the best you can with the limited coping skills you have going for you. Denial, alcohol, little admissions of the truth quickly retracted.
This is not a long-term sustainable way to live. Not for you, not for your daughter.
Open your heart to help. If not for you, then for your daughter. The cats out of the bag, you can't stuff it back in and pretend all is well and groovy. Because it most certainly is not.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
Where is the baby when both of you are drinking?
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): That's a fair enough answer x
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell, actually, I drink because I like it :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): I would take a guess that you are drinking to try and numb the pain, but it's not working is it?
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI am sorry bout that post being angry. Vodka and beer have a strange action on me.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
That's it, Q got it. This last post was indeed by a battered woman. It's time to start the healing now.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
You've absorbed the painful and wrong lessons of your childhood and you are playing them out in this skewed thinking.
Call that number, tomorrow, first thing.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
There's what has to change. Right there. You blame yourself. That's just wrong and the fact that you can't see that means you need the help you are trying to fight off.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYeah, i know. He got deployed and now he treats me like crap, so it's not his fault, it's my fault, for not being what he needed when he got back.
That's the thing. They're all trying to help me when I don't even deserve it. Yeah they're trying to help him too, but leave me out of it and let me feel like crap because he wasn't in love with me anymore after the 18 months he was gone. He was in love with me the whole time he was gone, madly so. But as soon as he got back, he realized that what the hell is he doing spending time with an ugly piece of shit like me. Even the angriest douche bags who he hated the most while he was gone come back and post fb statuses about how amazing their wives are and how in love they are with being home. So the constant in they're happy... he is the exception.. the one whose not. He doesn't have the problem, I DO.. I'm the variable. And because I wasn't good enough, he's getting his family looking at him like a physcopath. Or however its spelled. That's what really gets me.
And I thought I was in the perfect marriage, because this would never happen to me anymore. I was with a guy who would beat the shit out of someone forcing a bj on someone (and he has before), but then he gets home and nothing is how it seemed. Maybe if I could man up and give him a bj he wouldn't have to force it on me. But I'm too chicken shit because A couple guys made me do it before. Well that's not his fault either, and here I am taking it out on him. He had no choice but to stuff it down my throat.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
Wait, he was deployed? He was in combat? There are lots of people who come back different, there's no shame in that. They just didn't realize that things were bad that way.
Sweetheart, you are caught up in the very early stages of this. You have to look at the larger picture right now. Fast forward a year, okay?
Scenario A, they'd never found out he had issues and was being abusive. Things continued to deteriorate and your daughter would have seen one year of what an abused mommy looks like. You'd continue to believe that "most people" get verbally and physically abused at some point in their relationships, that it's the norm. You wouldn't be on the path to recovery because you hadn't even started yet.
Scenario B, you've had a year of counseling; he'd gotten the support he needed to resolve his anger/PTSD/whatever it is that is causing the outbursts. You'd have done some work on repairing your psyche and would be that much further along the road to a healthy self and healthy relationship. Your daughter wouldn't have seen abused mommy; she wouldn't even ever consider it to be the norm. You'd be giving her the gift of a trauma-free childhood.
Forest, trees. You're looking at the bark and leaves on the lower branches of the small shrubs.
I'm not an expert in domestic abuse, I know, so I think taking his dad up on the offer is a good idea. Spending money on this is a good investment if it helps their son. If your daughter was sick and needed expensive treatment, would you begrudge paying it? Would you blame her for needing it?
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI guess I just want them to go away :(
His dad called today and gave me a name and a number. He said to make the appointment and he would pay for it all. I feel aweful, now i'm spending their money too... This is sooo messed up! They were a perfectly happy family and then the guy gets deployed and acts different and treats me kind of not ok and then i get all whiney and spill the beans about it and fuck up a family. I'm so mad at myself. and now they're all looking at their son differently, involving each other, worrying, wasting time and energy and now MONEY?? Because our poor asses can't afford it and the military isn't confidential... and I went blubbering away when it wasn't my business and now look... How am I supposed to enjoy our daughter's one yaer bday next week when everyones looking around at us trying to figure us out, and pretending like they don't feel awkward as hell???
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
Do you think their motives are bad? Do you think their hearts are in the wrong place? Or are you feeling bad and just want them to go away and leave you in peace?
Only the 'peace' is with a guy who roughed you up, forced oral sex and verbally abuses you.
Have you made any progress in locating a counselor?
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWhat do they really think they will see in a four hour day at the lake, when everyone is trying to act like nothing has happened?
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (29 June 2010):
I think Q is right. They are concerned and the only way they know how to check on you is to see you.
The thing is out of the bottle, you can't put it back, alas. It IS uncharted waters. You are going to have to take it one small day at a time.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHe's definitely let's say.. hurt my feelings.. a few times, but i know he jsut says things when he's angry.
I think most people do.
You all seem to be experts, but I don't expect that his brother knows all that well the nature of the beast..
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHis brother came over today with his gf. Every time he looked at me, it was like he was studying me, or searching for something or analyzing or judging.. Everytime I looked up at him, my eyes felt like polar opposites to his because I couldn't maintain eye contact, because of the searching gaze, looking for answers and hints.
He didn't see me as the same person, or as a normal person. That's what it felt like anyway. That's how I'm afraid everyone will look at me from now on. :(
And now I wonder.. if this day of him coming over wasn't part of a secret agenda. He's never come over before, not in the year and a half I've lived here. He's never asked to come or accepted an invitation but this time he brought it up. I know it wasn't genuine wanting to hang out with us.. so what is up? WHy do people have to act differently now?
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (28 June 2010):
The point is to help you. I for one would like to be kept up to date on what's happening for you, as this progresses. But I don't want you to wake up tomorrow morning with a vision of my little avatar standing there, saying "tell me tell me tell me tell me tell meeeee everyyyyythinnnnnggggggg"
In other words, I don't want to cause any more distress than necessary.
I use my analogy of cancer on questions like these because I think it fits. The process of getting rid of the cancerous cells is so awful it's hard to contemplate voluntarily going through it, but you HAVE to try. Chemo sucks, the surgery sucks, the side effects suck. It suck suck suck sucks!!! (I hate cancer, in case you couldn't tell.) But it's a necessary part of fixing things. You can't come out the other side cancer-free if you don't even fight the fight.
I want you to see that it's uncomfortable to face this bad stuff but in the end, you'll be in a whole new place with new ways of coping and a healthy defense system, one that will actually be sustainable over time.
Goodness, I do go on, don't I?
Please tell us how it's going if it doesn't cause too much pain.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOk really i've taken up enough time here, i'm sorry. I will update you if you want me to, if something else happens that you might care about. Maybe you can use my process in order to help others even more thoroughly.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (28 June 2010):
You know the phrase, "you're your own worst enemy"? This kind of applies to you here. You fight the process that could help you because you don't want to have to face the feelings.
This is like getting cancer. It's not fair, it sucks, it is a crappy hand to be dealt. But if you don't tackle it, go in there and get the help and treatment you need, the cancer will kill you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI forgot to tell you, your theory on my dream is impressive and makes crazy amounts of sense.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI've never taken medication or gone to the doctor for any of this. Well, I did once... I was so embarrassed about talking aobut it, I was holding back tears the whole time. Then she tried to refer me to a physchiatrist instead and she well, i didn't go because if I can't even tell the doctor that I'm paranoid, have headaches every morning, can't sleep, have mocturnal panick attacks in my sleep without crying for shame, how am I supposed to talk about anything possibly causing those symptoms???
It seems impossible.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (28 June 2010):
AA stands for Alcoholic Anonymous. There's also Al-Anon, which is for family and friends of alcoholics. I've been to those meetings when a good friend of mine was struggling with alcoholism. I haven't been to an AA meeting but I would imagine they are similar.
I know what you mean about false memories--those vivid dreams can really set up some feelings that aren't based on reality.
May I ask a more personal question? Have you just recently begun any anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds? Because some of those have some very vivid dreams as a side-effect. I had some wicked ones when I first started my anti-depressant, but that eventually stabilized and now isn't an issue as I'm not taking it any longer.
"I don't know what's wrong with me, why i feel mad at him for it." You're mad at him for insisting on you confronting this issue and not hiding it away, as you would prefer. The sex/rape thing ties in because that is what's at the root of the entire situation. It's like you're being violated again because you have to dredge up all these memories you've tried so long--and ultimately unsuccessfully--to suppress.
My advice is to try to surrender yourself to the process of healing, not to surrender yourself to being abused. You've been resisting the healing process rather than resisting abuse. Time to flip that switch.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI've started on your moodGYM website, but not gotten very far. I was just telling you about my dream because I wake up scared and need to distract myself for a while. But it's lingering longer than usual. I feel disgusted with his dad and don't want to be around him, because I have this fake memory. But it feels like it really happened. I hope I'll stop this frame of mind very quickly because he is trying to help me right now. I don't know what's wrong with me, why i feel mad at him for it. AA sounds embarrassing, because people will see me and know there something wrong with me. But it sounds a hella lot easier than going one on one. Maybe I should look into it...
Whta is AA stand for though? Because, my adoptive parents had my brothers and I go there when we were younger but it was for adopted kids.. and then some say it's for alcholics.. So I'm a litte confused on the acronym.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (28 June 2010):
You're having dreams like this because you feel trapped and helpless and it's about the sexual assaults you've experienced as well as trying to create defensive mechanisms to cope with them.
Q is right in that it's not going to be 'solved' overnight and you're going to have to allow the process to happen. I's going to be uncomfortable and unpleasant some of the time but I suspect you will be in a much better place if you are really willing to put in the hard work needed to come to grips with your past and your present. The future will be that much brighter.
The mind gym thing is in modules. You do the first one now and think about it, then the next one 3 weeks from now. It's a process of examining your thoughts and how they turn into actions. It's not an insta-fix thing. I have other people trying it out as well and I'm doing it too. I just think it looks promising and I don't think it'll hurt. It's not hugely time consuming, from what I can determine so far.
I think the AA meeting idea is intriguing and worth a try. Participate or sit in the back--you can do whatever feels comfortable.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI had a dream his dad was in our apartment. He said he needed to talk to me alone so everyone left, and he got in bed with me. I felt awkward but he said "it's ok, come'ere lets talk." He said He is mad at my husband and is about to lock him away, and then he got on top of me and whispered "i want to be with you" he kissed me hard and then put a hat over my face so he couldn't see me and wouldn't get off. He started raping me.
I had a dream where I thought i was awake and then i see the window out the corner of my eye, and then i hear the trees, and then i sstart to notice that they're coming in my window and coming right at me and I scream and scream... a dream where I thought my husband was attacking me.. and it face was all distorted and i'm saying "no" over and over, but eventually is face is funny. And I wake up scared. I hate always having bad dreams and I hate being scared of everything.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI will try, Tish, when I am less tired. I promise. My hub's brother and his brother's gf are actually coming here tomorrow (not looking forward to it), so I might be busy. But I promise to try.
I am listening Miamine :)
I just love him so much
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (27 June 2010):
This isn't your fault and unfortunately, you can't see that just yet. You are filtering things through faulty settings, due to the abuse you've experienced.You HAVE to have an outside trained therapist help you through this, or your daughter may come to believe that it's okay to be misused, mistreated and abused. It's not, trust me, it is definitely not okay.I found this cool site recently and I wonder if you might not benefit from assessing your own thinking. http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome It's a free site, you register and answer questions to see if you are perceiving and thinking about things in a healthy manner. Let me know what you think of it; I'm still trying it myself and am interested if it would be a good tool to refer other people to.A. It's not your faultB. Counseling is a good thingC. You can't put it back in the box and pretend it never happened, much as you'd like to. You needed help and you managed to ask for it. Fortunately, his family was listening and now you're getting the help you need.D. Try your best to stop resisting the process and do your best to move toward healing.E. Hugs. :D
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOK! I will keep you posted! You're all right, I am so lucky for his family! We have a one year old daughter, and I stand up for her immediately if he says the smallest thing like "brat," eventhough she doesn't understand. I will never let anything happen to her. I love her incredibly much. THANK YOU!!
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): today reading this...im just glad to be a part of this site. THIS is what its all about. Im proud of you all...aunts AND OP....HUGS Mal
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female
reader, Carrot2000 +, writes (27 June 2010):
 Q, I think her husband will get it because he has real men around him who will stomp a mud hole in his ass if he hurts her in any way. A man is not likely to abuse a woman who has other men in her life who care about her, and her father- and brother-in-law have her back 100%.
OP, despite what you have endured, I am so happy you married into a family where abuse is not tolerated. You have the support you need to end the cycle of abuse that has defined your life thus far. It may be scary to go into uncharted territory, but your life and the life of your descendants will be better because you are taking this step.
You're not wasting our time at all, honey. Please keep us posted, OK?
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): It's great that you have learn how to treat other people well, now work on how to treat yourself, on what you find acceptable behaviour from others. Get help and draw a line under your life this far, from now on look for more from people, expect to be treated with respect.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI am grateful for my abuse :) Because now I am not a person who will treat someone badly. I think so carefuly before everything I say to my friends or family, and I have recieved that from abuse. My brother has been abused horribly from our father.. he is so generous.. so kind hearted and considerate.
I wish I could hug everyone!! But I can't. *online hug*
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reader, CaringGuy +, writes (27 June 2010):
Sometimes you have to step out into the unknown to make more progress, or get away. No harm in stepping out into the unknown. You're too nice to be stuck entrenched in abuse for the rest of your life. The unknown will do you good if you want it to. And I'm hoping you will, as are the rest of us.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionMiamine.. I am sure you recognize who this is from other questions and thank you. That makes me feel special.. I am almost crying because I like to feel special sometimes :)
and q.. I can't believe I got a serious answer from you. Thank you.
Caring guy, vintage 64.. thank you for what you have invested, and coming back to listen to me whine.
Olderthandirt, Bernard, accountable, carrot, marieclaire, tux..
its pointed out to me that i have the best aunts.. and there are so many who responded to me. Thank you everyone. I am sorry to waste any of your time. I feel like I've begun arguing with you all, so I'll step back and carefuly consider what I've been told. To accept it though, would be to step into the cold where I am not used to being. But I'll try really hard... because I've always hoped that one day, I wouldn't have to be scared, untrusting, pesimistic and putting myself after everything.. including dirt. I hope it's not how I am really supposed to live. I hope a counselor can tell me how I am supposed to feel.. and tell my husband how I am supposed to feel because of him. THen we can both learn. If you are all right, then we both have a lot to learn.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (27 June 2010):
Q she's American.. she aint listening.. how can we find her name and address and give her husband a good "talking"...
Sigh.. suppose we'll have to let the daddy deal with him.. far less bruising, cause they love him more than we do.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (27 June 2010):
You've got some of the best aunts we have at Dear Cupid trying to make you understand.. ABUSE IS ALWAYS WRONG.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (27 June 2010):
Baby, my heart is breaking for you, you expect so little from the world. His family love you too, they don't want you hurt, they want you smiling and happy.. That's what all us Dear Cupid Aunts want as well..
ABUSE IS ALWAYS WRONG... giving a guy you love a blow job can be nice and pleasant, but when it is forced, it makes you feel dirty and small.. NO MAN SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO MAKE A WOMAN FEEL LIKE THAT... IT IS WRONG.
I can see your life has been tough, but the family and the DC aunts want better for you. You must not forgive him so easily, he is like a bad dog, he's needs telling off, he needs training, he needs to know what is wrong and what is right, he needs to learn to treat you like a queen.. THIS IS WHAT YOU DESERVE.. you are a nice woman.. please let the family help you... He is their son, but they are willing to stand beside you and stop you from getting hurt. We are too far away to help, but we know, because we have been treated nicely, THAT ABUSE IS ALWAYS WRONG..
What he did is "rape"... if he was a stranger and forced you this way he would go to jail. But he's your husband and you love him, ok, stay then, but he MUST learn to treat you nicely.. You are a loving kind person, how do I know, someone had problems and you shared your secret to help them feel good... You deserve the world, and it's the world us Aunts and your husbands family wish for you...
Please, please, please believe us when we say, he is wrong, he did you wrong, you have every right not to want sex, not to want to be hurt, and not want to be grab and manhandled in anyway... If he thinks your alone, you are not.. His family will defend you, we will help advise you... let us help to protect you from harm and be your Prince Charming in shining armour..
You deserve to be treated special, because your a lovely person...
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell... I am comfortable with abuse because that's what I'm used to. It's almost just part of me because I expect it, I accept it, and I'm confused and untrusting when it's not there. So it's good, because now maybe I can trust my husband.
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reader, CaringGuy +, writes (27 June 2010):
We are caring. :). But you do need to care for yourself as well. You have had a very hard start to life, but in no way does that mean you need to accept it. No one has to accept anything. I have a friend who was raped, and I know three siblings who were all sexually abused. They went through so much at such a young age. The girl who was raped has found it very hard to adjust, but she has made as much effort as she can to move forward and get away. In contrast, one of those three siblings has unfortunately slipped away into depression and has since been abused again and again by men. You really do have the choice to move forward through this if you want to. There is no need for you to sit there and live a life of abuse. You have the choice to move forward with your life and avoid hurt, or you can slip away into depression and a life of misery. Please don't be the one who slips away. No one is forcing you to live this life. You can move forward if you want to.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYou're all nice, caring people...
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionMy husband says he knows he did something wrong, but they're making a big deal and we don't need counseling, and I'm in agreeance with him. Maybe he feels this way because he doesn't remember a lick of the second incident, because he was too drunk. So it doesn't stick with him like it does with me.
Maybe I don't think it's a big deal because my brother raped me when I was in fifth grade, I've been kidnapped, illegally put up for adopted, then physically and emotionally abused by my adoptive father. It's like.. this is just how it's supposed to be for me. I'm not sure why, but whoever created me, has this plan for me. So i'm trying to accept it.. and now I have people telling me I'm not supposed to? Then I've been living my life wrongly? But this is what's been handed to me.. and this is how i'm getting through it. So two bjs and a little mishandling? It's just spilled milk.
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reader, CaringGuy +, writes (27 June 2010):
You didn't do anything. I'm actually quite concerned about you, as much as your father in law, because it seems as if you can't see your husband has done something that is really wicked. Being sexually abused is a big thing. That's why there are laws against it. On the strength of what happened, you could have taken him to court. You've not done anything to your family at all. He did. Look at the support you've had from your father in law. He supports you, and is so angry by his own son's actions he's told you to get help, or he will get it for you. You need to be looking out for yourself here, not just covering up your abuse. What will you say if he does one day throw you off a balcony? That he didn't mean to do it? You've not caused drama here. He has.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): OP Please listen to me YOU didn't do anything your husband did.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell that's what makes me feel weird too. Everyone is treating it like he threw me off a balcony. I hate to cause so much drama and trouble in his family. I ruined the family... I'm tearing it apart.
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reader, CaringGuy +, writes (27 June 2010):
You were sexually abused. Yes it's a big deal. The worst thing I've seen on this site since being here is the lack of respect that women have for themselves. So many women on this site accept appalling treatment. He abused you, it is a big deal. You know that it's a big deal because his own father has told him to get counselling with you. Paying for it will be hard. But the next time he abuses you, it might be not sexual. It might be a punch to the face, or a kick to the stomach. It;s quite worrying that so many women take so much and think little of it. Do not accept crap treatment. Period.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI have been very good to their son, so I guess they are grateful.
I am blessed to have them caring so much, I just wish I hadn't let the cat out the bag. I was handling it on my own. He is going to counseling with me.. I just don't know how we'll pay for it...
Thank you guys.
I still feel bad though.. it doesn't seem like what he did was that big a deal. SIGH
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): Just give some more time to it. start acting normally and and let help your DH face every one. in few months it will all be fine. do not worry too much.
every couple have fights and wife and husband both acts and reacts and it leads to this situation.
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reader, tux +, writes (27 June 2010):
 He did in fact abuse you.. physically and sexually.. and didn't as you put it "mishandle" you. He does need counselling and you should attend it as well..
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (27 June 2010):
They love him, and they want him to make them proud and they want him happy. IT IS NOT RIGHT, to abuse your wife. Your husbands family are acting brilliantly, they want the best for you and the best for him.
ABUSE IS NOT OK.... He needs to go counselling with you, so he can admitt what he did, and learn better ways to act towards you.
His family is your family now, they are embarrased about the way their son is acting and they want it stopped and they want you happy. If he continues to abuse you, then you'll be unhappy and it will be his fault.
Arrange with your husband to go counselling. Yes you forgive him, that's your choice. But he still needs to know why he acts like that... FORCED BLOW JOBS ARE A FORM OF RAPE.. (Sexual penetration with a penis into an orrifice)
Go, set his parents mind at rest, or else they'll be talking to your family and pushing for you two to get a divorce. Your too young to put up with a man that hurts.. Thank goodness his family are kind loving people.
Your business is private, your talking with your family and asking for help and the counselling will be confidential. Do it now, before your husband behaviour gets worse and you will be forced to leave him.
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reader, CaringGuy +, writes (27 June 2010):
His father is protecting you. And rightfully so. You're being abused here, and it needs to be sorted out.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): I think the fact that you told someone, drunk or not, is a sign that sub-consciously you know that what your husband did is not okay. He sexually abused you and "mishandled" you and I bet if you didn't tell anyone, it is/was just going to get worse.
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reader, Carrot2000 +, writes (27 June 2010):
I'm impressed by your father-in-law's response. Most families want to cover up or ignore abuse--which is exactly what you're trying to do. Even if you find his behavior acceptable, they don't and his family is willing to go to these lengths to keep their son on the right path. You may not see it this way, but they are trying to save your marriage.
Drunk or not, abuse is NEVER okay.Period. Even though you've forgiven your husband, his behavior indicates that there is a problem either with rage or alcohol (or both) that needs to be addressed. You would be wise to follow the advice of your in-laws.
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reader, Accountable +, writes (27 June 2010):
 This isnt your fault at all, he brought it on himself by abusing you in the first place. Not all abuse starts big and dramatic - "a little physical abuse" now could easily develope into serious case. His family is right, the best thing to do is get some counselling and stop the problem from getting worse (short of leaving him and removing the problem altogether). Theyre not trying to vindicate him, theyre trying to support you both. He shouldnt see it as an attack. Has he hurt you at all since?
The point is, if you make out like what he has done to you so far is no big deal, youre effectively telling him that youre willing to accept that kind of treatment. He will continue to abuse you because you continue to put up with it, so he has no reason to stop. Get the counselling - it will help. Good luck!
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): Just thought of something else, getting so drunk that you don't remember what you're saying isn't a good idea, so you should start taking control of your drinking.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 June 2010): Your husband is telling you its not your fault and it isn't. I know this has freaked you out, but I think doing as his father said is a good idea. I know you say you haven forgiven him, but you need to get to the root cause, to stop this happening again.
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reader, olderthandirt  +, writes (27 June 2010):
 Anyone that physically abuses his wife or girlfriend ( in my book0 should be exposed for what they are. Like a rotch when the lights are turn on. they run and cower in the corner. You did right now get out of the relationship before a forced BJ becomesa knife to the throat. Run lady run. Let the chips fall where they may. Like my dad tld me only a coward and fool hurts a woman, Good Luck, R
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