A
male
age
30-35,
*ector123
writes:Hello everyone. I don't really believe in asking these types of questions online but I don't have anyone I know that I could ask this about. I also don't think I could really get an "answer" as such but I'd like to hear people's thoughts. I've held off from relationships for a very long time, so I feel quite new to it. Lately I wanted to start looking again. As a result I met a few people. Eventually, I took things further with one girl in particular. I've been seeing her over the last few months. She's got a lot going for her. She's very sweet. She's kind. She's good looking. She's very smart. We share the same values, and spending time with her is very easy. I don't feel like I have to pretend to be someone I'm not around her - I feel natural. I trust her. She's a genuinely empathic person. And more. Meeting up hasn't been easy these days but we've met about 4 times. Each time we spent all day together and it's been pleasant every time. Otherwise we talk quite regularly over the phone. Right now I can't tell if I should proceed or not. It isn't all perfect. I say the following with no intention to criticise or disrespect. I do think she's quite underconfident, and self critical. She's also quite shy. As a result, when we're together I feel like I'm doing a lot of the talking and the "doing". I don't mind that necessarily but I sometimes wonder if the relationship isn't very balanced. We are quite open, and I have talked to her about my feelings in a more sensitive way. She's said how she isn't sure if she's likely to change very much until she actually begins a proper relationship with someone (note, we're both quite traditional. The relationship is not at all sexual and wouldnt be until we got married). This makes it hard for me to make a judgement. I guess I don't feel much of a spark right now. I'm not looking for an all consuming romance necessarily. But I do want to want it, if that makes sense. I value and desire a partner with all the qualities she has, but naturally I also want someone I can laugh with, push and pull with, and so on. I feel like that's fairer to both myself and to her. I think I want her to be more confident, more self assured? I'm not fully sure - I just want it to be more obvious to me that this is someone I'd like to be my partner. And right now, this issue is a block in the way of that. Meanwhile, she says she feels very content and would love to keep meeting. I was surprised when she said that the first time - maybe because shes quite reserved in person, I couldn't tell how interested she really was. I'd say every date we've had so far has felt the same, in that I haven't really noticed her change or open up more, and it might just keep going that way. She is sometimes more confident over the phone, and I do seem to get hints that it isn't her full natural self that I'm seeing in person.So I find myself wondering. Maybe I'm rushing things. Perhaps I should focus on the values, the qualities she has, and look to deepen our connection over time. Perhaps she will open up more. But then, perhaps she won't - if this is how things stay, I might not really like my partner as much as I would like to. Perhaps I should say that no, it should be more obvious by now if I really like her, and I should save us both the effort and move on. And so on. It doesn't help that neither of us are very experienced in relationships. I have met more self-confident women in the past, and I've liked that about them, but I've not been interested in them romantically, either because I don't find them attractive in other ways, or because our values mismatch, or so on. Anyway that's probably enough. This is my situation, and I would like to hear people's reflections.
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female
reader, Honeypie  + ♥, writes (21 June 2021):
 Glad you found someone that gave you useful advice, OP
But to clarify... the toilet/pot analogy wasn't about her. It was about YOU making a choice - EVENTUALLY. At some point, you will HAVE to. Unless you think it's OK to string another person along because you are unsure. It's OK to BE unsure. But if you have someone (potential partner) who is pretty sure YOU are "it" for her and then you are dragging your feet.
As for the analogy being crude... ok...
Pretty sure YOU wouldn't like it if someone was "unsure" about you.
Dating a person doesn't mean THIS is your future spouse. That is the whole point of dating. To figure it out.
There are no guarantees that even if you take a long time, that the person turns out to be who you want to be with. But IT IS good to take your time.
A
male
reader, Hector123 +, writes (19 June 2021):
Hector123 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you to whoever wrote the anonymous answer on 17th June. I feel like you've really understood my situation. You've been wonderfully empathetic about it and you've given me things to think about.
I also share your attitude towards the other answers. There were some good things in there but the aspergers thing was ridiculous to the point of being offensive, and yes, I refuse to analogise this situation to being on a toilet... I was going to write off this website but your answer has really redeemed it for me. I don't really cry very often but your answer was so good I did tear up a little bit.
I think you're right to suggest that I should just focus on spending time with her and enjoying that. I have been very open with her about my feelings and she has been very good about it, which I also respect. I think we both accept that whatever has to happen will happen and that it's better to communicate properly along the way.
I agree that sexuality would maybe up the emotions but at a big risk of ignoring compatibility on the personality level, which is why I think it's a good thing that we're keeping that at bay.
I was particularly taken by when you said how I'm trying to see whether she is a lover or a great friend. Physically I do find her attractive, and I know she feels that way about me. But I suppose for me that kind of love comes down to a meeting of personalities. It is easy to spend time with her yes but a lot of the time I feel like I'm waiting for something else... For her to make me laugh, or challenge me. Sometimes I sense its possible, and that she really is just that shy... Sometimes I think maybe this is just how she is.
I think you're right that this kind of thing can take time. I'm personally the type to just be myself fully from the getgo. I figure she might not be and will take longer to be comfortable. I'm willing to wait because she really is that good in everything else... That said I don't want to pressure myself into spending more time with her out of a sense of duty.
I suppose no one can say for sure when that balance can be struck but for now I do like spending time with her and I think you're right to say I can just focus on that. I will continue to be honest with her as I have been so far and I think it won't be long until we reach a mutual understanding.
Thank you again for the wonderful answer (and also for the various compliments you gave to us both)!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2021): What you have said about this girl is positive, and to be frank, it is impressive that people exist in this mad, ever accelerating generation, where you can be the age you are and not put too much emphasis on getting into each other’s pants! Good for you with your traditional values, and I ONLY emphasise that because wider society, media and most ‘average guys’ go on and on about the physical stuff like it’s up there with the top things that matter… Continue to take it slow with this woman but my advice would be to be completely honest and open about yourself in all the areas that are necessary (where you think it would be helpful for her,) without offering too much info either. Dating is nerve wracking if it means something to a person, or if you’re not naturally outgoing, so both of you may well just be nervous whenever you meet, but try to just be happy being together, appreciating the time, rather than worrying what she is thinking. If you are honest with her then you did your bit, you did your best, and you have to believe that she will be honest with you, or at least open up to you given enough time.. some people are very private people, they might even have a lot of baggage or other issues but they can be true, decent and wonderful people given time. Without time, you cannot allow anything to unfold or for true colours to emerge.. We live in such a fast paced society it is off-putting. HoneyPie has a point when she says “she isn’t you” and also that “you can’t change other people”, but i disagree that you shouldn’t date people for their potential, not that I think you should be trying to change her at all, -no way-, but that you don’t really KNOW what she is like, her ‘potential;’ until you have spent time with her under lots of different circumstances and situations. Rather, its not her potential for what she can BE to you, of course, but her potential as a friend or more remains UNKNOWN until you have spent plenty of time together. So you don’t have to “shit or get off the pot”, as she is not a toilet to be used (that was a VERY CRUDE analogy) rather as with any sensitive human being with a soul, she is a person more akin to a flower that needs time to bloom, as we all do. Love is not a microwave dinner, ready in minutes!!If you can spend time being comfortable in each other’s presence and don’t push each other but are happy with the silences too, then that is a very positive thing. Find out her likes, dislikes, past etc, to form some context, but NOT so that you can judge.. we ALL judge too much. If she shares the values and things that you hold most dear to be of similar importance then that’s brilliant. You don’t need a load of similar interests to be happy together, even as good friends, whereas things like understanding and holding core values in common seem to be of greater importance.Don’t worry about having to break up with her if this or that hasn’t progressed by a certain point, as it is dangerous to put yourself under pressure. Many people have been hurt by either bad communication or because one party has promised or over emphasised what they could not or chose not to deliver. Just enjoy each other’s company. Keep saying that you want to see her if you do. If not, don’t lose too much sleep over it, she will understand. You don’t even have to call it dating if that makes it easier for you both, as you do not want to cross any lines that you cannot undo, or that might cause a break-up if one of you were too put off.. On the other hand, don’t break up just because something is not blossoming when others say it should be, or because of imagined pressures. The only opinions that truly matter in a relationship are the two that are involved in it!I think it is sweet if you are generally looking to the future, ie with the mind to find a spouse rather than just another girlfriend of little consequence or the modern ‘someone i can sleep with for now’. Yes, some people end up in serious relationships (or married!) from dating extremely casually or even one night stands, BUT the majority don’t seem to find themselves together by accident, meaning that the two of you have to want similar things for it to last.. I suppose you are also going to weed out those who might only want you for the lust side if you are looking for commitment, just the word sends shivers down some people’s spines these days, and the fact that you value your body and respect others, that’s a huge positive. Never let anyone else take away that value or pressure you into thinking that’s a small thing. I don’t have any fears that you might be ‘on the spectrum’ or have Asperger's, i think that’s insulting. If you can’t admit you over analyse or let yourself go to worry anonymously on a webpage, where on earth can you? I think WiseOwl is really comparing you a lot to his friend when you are an individual and where he seemed to have had his share of relationships, you have chosen not to, so its natural you are more apprehensive and don’t have the experience of women, particularly if you don’t have many female friends! As to feeling that ‘spark’, i do know what you mean, but the fact that you are not sharing your bodies with one another yet may help with that because you have less chance of blurring any boundaries. If you slept together, for example, then you may feel a certain connection to her which overshadows other things you should be noticing, like you could find her more attractive than she actually is to you because of that sexual side that’s available, and on the other side of things, if you DO find her physically attractive then that side can freely develop without rushing, you don’t lose anything or if you break up you avoid as much pain. Does she flirt with you? Are you relaxed enough around her so that when she catches your eye you might ‘feel something’, or do you deep down think that she is only a lovely friend rather than someone who could progress into a lover? Just because you are choosing to withhold that part of yourself right now does not mean that physical attraction etc is not important.. but, these things again could develop with time and only you will be able to judge that. Has she, by chance, said how she finds you attractive? It is easy, generally speaking, to pick out people we might find sexually appealing, attractive and so on, but it is much harder to find people who are honest, trustworthy, kind, who share a sense of humour and discretion etc.. Again, give yourself time before judging yourself or the whole relationship to be one way or another.. Either way, i wish you the best.If only more guys were like you!
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (2 June 2021): "So I find myself wondering. Maybe I'm rushing things. Perhaps I should focus on the values, the qualities she has, and look to deepen our connection over time."
My dear sir, you are over-intellectualizing and analyzing this connection you've made to death!!!
No-one...repeat...no-one is going to completely fit each and every one of your listed criteria for perfection; or check every box to become the "Stepford Wife" (Google it) of the century!
"She's got a lot going for her. She's very sweet. She's kind. She's good looking. She's very smart. We share the same values, and spending time with her is very easy. I don't feel like I have to pretend to be someone I'm not around her - I feel natural. I trust her. She's a genuinely empathic person. And more."
This is a description of an extraordinary person! After all that, what could possibly be missing?
First-off, you've only been together four times! You're interviewing or auditioning the poor lady as your "wife to-be;" without realizing that first you have to determine what your feelings actually are for her, and what hers are for you.
You are literally reviewing this young woman like a candidate for employment. Nothing seems emotional or connected. You did say you have little experience in relationships; but your approach to this is far too clinical, or robotic. Please don't be offended, but have you been evaluated on the autism scale, or do you have Asperger's? You seem quite detached in the emotional-sense; but you seem to believe she must fit into a mold; in order to register on a meter, rather than your heart!
According to your own description, this young-woman has surpassed most of the qualities you look for in a person, or a romantic-partner; and those traits would certainly make for the best in girlfriend/wife material. You simply have to stop overthinking; and stop trying to box and categorize her like you're purchasing a product. My dear fellow, she is a woman, a person, and she has feelings, and a personality!
You don't go-in thinking of ways to change or improve someone; when you hardly know a darned thing about them!!! She has given you the go-ahead to proceed to get to know her better. Gosh, how many really nice-guys out there are gasping with disbelief as they're reading your post! She wisely reserved full-access; pending her getting better acquainted, determining your intentions, and allowing you a bit of trust. Then here you go, suddenly thinking maybe she's not right...AFTER ALL THAT???!!! Are you kidding me?!!
Feelings aren't always "instant." That's a myth created by Hollywood, and the movie industry. All that nonsense about "love at first-sight," sparks, and all that jazz! You don't always feel an immediate spark, and that spark is more often "lust;" rather than true-attraction, that could lead to a real emotional-connection. With a warm and sensitive-person like you've described.
Yes, some people you meet, and fireworks go-off! Then others just make you feel yourself, comfortable around them, they put a fuzzy warm-feeling in your body. You think about them every minute you're apart. Now that's what I look for...and I've found it!
You are correct. You are rushing it a bit, deciding whether she would make a good wife; when she's not even officially your committed-girlfriend! Either you are extremely inexperienced and naive; or you may be somewhat autistic, and working with the emotional-side of this the best way you can. You might be a victim of technological-age; where interactive-skills and emotional-connections are awkward for the most part; but love conquers all!
I say, turn-off your mechanized-scanners, and stop searching for her imperfections and weaknesses; and explore those beautiful things you described about her personality, and her qualities as a person.
That's how you develop feelings, and connect with a person on a romantic-level. If you're simply auditioning women for the role as a wife; then forget everything I've said.
Your post reminds me of a very handsome and intelligent friend of mine. He's a top-level software engineer, who has lost every romantic-connection he has ever had; and he's also a divorcee, with a son. He is such a great person; but he sees everything too analytically! He's always wondering why his relationships don't last? I've tried to tell him he needs to be more at-ease around people. Stop judging people on gut-feelings and hunches. Actually get to know them! Nobody's perfect!
He was once rejected by another acquaintance of mine. They dated for about 3 months, before I even knew they were dating! Awkward! I got a call at 3am in the morning; to ask him to leave before the police would be called! I had to drive-out to the complex, and escort him off the premises! He was standing outside my other friend's apartment, refusing to leave; unless they could talk!!!
Long afterwards, we had another deep man-to-man talk; and he agreed that maybe I'm right! It took him a long-time to get-over the rejection. If he'd just chill-out, he'd be a great catch! He's a very nice-guy! He's just too android-ish! He craves a lot of affection, and can be very needy. He has given me his analysis on the personalities of everyone he has dated. There's always some element he thinks they lack that messed everything up. He couldn't see that maybe that element was himself!
Slow your roll. See her first as a person. Get to know her, and stop time-traveling into the future; envisioning you both standing at the alter!
She may never be your wife; but I think you should at least consider if you might just date awhile, and see how well she fits as a "girlfriend." Maybe?
Don't approach every female like you're on a mission to fill a position. You're searching for a mate, a romantic-partner, and someone you can develop deep feelings for. These things are not done in a rush, and you have to use a different part of your brain. Don't use the parietal cortex areas (the frontal and central lobe of the brain); you must use the hypothalamus. That's the center where we produce our sex hormones, and dopamine. That's where the brain chemical norepinephrine is produced; which is responsible for that giddy feeling we feel, when we're falling in-love. I went a little nerdy on you, sorry!
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (1 June 2021):
It's hard to really give you advice here. Because I can see it working out and not.
1. Firstly, accept that SHE isn't you. She isn't going to be a female clone of you. She is not going to be just like you. Nor is any other woman.
2. Secondly, DO not date someone for their "potential" - aka the girl, you THINK she can be or the girl you WANT her to be. She is who she is, it's not up to you to decide what she needs to change about herself to suit YOUR ideal.
3. Thirdly, YOU can't change other people. That is a fact. There can be small things you two can negotiate and learn to be better at, to please each other over time- it's not up to you to say SHE needs to be more confident, less shy, and more open, that is unrealistic. And... that is another person than her.
She might also not have opened up a whole lot YET because it's still early days and she (and you) is kind of inexperienced in how to "relationship".
She might also just be a bit shy and reserved. Some people are. If that is not a good fit for you, then SHE isn't for you.
It's OK to have some SILENCES on a date. It can be nice not having to talk and talk ALL the time. Find activities where you two don't HAVE to talk non-stop. It might help you both. And it might feel less like a job interview. My youngest is going on a "kayak date" - I get you there will be more laughter and jokes than serious talk as neither of them have ever tried to kayak before. They went go-karting last weekend and had a blast.
It's been 4 in-person dates. I think YOU can tell if you want this to have a 5, 6th, and many more dates or not. DO you want to get to know her better or not?
You can't conduct a relationship mainly over tech. A relationship needs personal interactions to grow and bloom.
You could do the 5th date and then decide. But you can't keep dragging it out because she is not ticking all YOUR boxes. Either she is someone you can see yourself with and someone you WANT to get to know better, OR not.
Have you considered that YOU might not tick ALL her boxes, yet she still enjoys getting to know you? That doesn't mean you HAVE to decide if this is your future wife or not. You might have to date a few more women before you find the one you can see yourself with long-term. IT is a LOT of pressure to put on HER and yourself to think in terms of - this is my future spouse.
I'd say it's about time to "shit or get off the pot". and IF you decide she isn't "it" for you, don't insult her by suggesting to stay "friends".
Good luck!
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