A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I found out last spring that my best friend and now-girlfriend had been sleeping together for 3 months and had kept this from me. My gf and I weren't together when it happened, but my best friend knew she and I had unspoken feelings for each other. They both kept it from me, and after I found out and told my best friend how I felt, he continued to pursue her anyway. This led to some huge confrontations, and to make a long story short, my gf soon ended things with him and started a beautiful, enriching relationship with me. We are incredibly happy.Unfortunately, the exact opposite is true for my former best friend and me. We haven't spoken in a year. It's remarkable how successfully we've been able to avoid each other, especially since we have the same friends and live 5 mins from each other. It's hard for me to believe that he and I may never cross paths again. I'd always thought we'd bump into each other somewhere, which would lead to something--a conversation, an apology, or even a physical altercation. Anything that would give me some closure. That hasn't happened. I've been out of the country for 8 months because of school and work, and when I return home next month he'll be moving away permanently. The situation is such that there'd be little to gain by me going to him with these feelings--he's obstinate and has convinced himself that he's the one who was wronged, not me. Regardless, I still think about the situation on a daily basis and the pain of losing such a (seemingly) close friendship is eclipsed only by the pain caused by his betrayal.With so much time having passed, I am surprised at the amount of anger and animosity I continue to have for him. I'm so happy with my girlfriend on every level, but my hatred for my former best friend sometimes bleeds into other areas of my life. I want this to stop but seem unable to get my former best friend (and our failed friendship) out of my head. With little chance of ever receiving an apology or remorse from him, how do I go about getting closure for this situation? I don't want to spend the rest of my life dwelling on this failed friendship, but I continue to be as consumed by it as ever.
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male
reader, MENACE +, writes (13 August 2008):
DONT EMAIL my email that will appear, THAT SHIT is A FALty EMAIL SCOTT........Call matt/Nicole/or if this isnt scott your random friend bro..nothing will be solved unless you give him at LEAST a call.
A
female
reader, pashanoodle  +, writes (21 July 2008):
 Hi again,
I probably wouldn't say the first paragraph either...the thing is, if you could go back and change things you might not be in the happy loving r'ship you are now...so why would you? In your friends mind you won - it came down to her chosing one of you and she chose you over him...I know it is probably not as black and white as that, but this guys ego is no doubt bruised (as yours would be if the situation was reversed and she and your mate were now totally in love). I sincerely doubt that he is going to be able to see past this. And coming from the guy who "won" - the speil might just feel like rubbing salt in his wounds??? (I know that is not what you would intend!!)
The part about you and him and your friendship - that's fine. It's heartfelt and honest - and you aren't expecting anything from him...just saying what you need him to hear.
Hope you can feel some closure soon my friend.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (20 July 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'd like to thank everyone for their answers. I'm grateful for this site as I've found there to be some insightful, intelligent posters who genuinely seem invested in the problems of anonymous others. I appreciate having a space where I can say the things that I'd never normally express outwardly.
The overall effect of all the responses has reinforced something I already knew but can all too easily lose sight of: This situation is now a year past, and the only person still bothered about is me. I need to once and for all purge the lingering grief I have over the loss of the friendship. The cards were layed, paths chosen, and it's time to stop looking for closure. A year's passing is closure enough.
However, I would like some final advice. There is a fairly likely chance that I will cross paths with my friend at an upcoming wedding. This wedding will occur right before he moves away permanenlty, and I've thought about what to do in the event an opportunity arises where he and I talk to each other.
I absolutely don't want to bring up old issues or rehash dead-and-buried wrongs. Neither of us will ever agree to, or even fully admit to, the other one's version of the story. What I'd like is if he and I could have a brief, positive interaction that would be a symbolic final burying of the hatchet.
I'm not hoping for any miracles, but here is what I'd like to say:
1. I'm sorry for my role in everything that happened. I was an integral part of what became a perfect storm that ended three friendships. I hate that the entire things happened, and I regret that I can't go back and change things. I know my behavior has not always been admirable, and I'm sorry I wasn't a better person through all of this.
2. For what it's worth, I continue to miss your friendship even after a year. I know neither of us can imagine going back to the way things were, but that doesn't change the fact that you and I were close friends and I appreciated your friendship. It is very regrettable to me that someone who was such a fixture during several years of my life is now someone I may never speak to or see again.
What do you guys think of this idea? All I want is for us to at least say final goodbyes on decent terms. I would consider it a wild success if we each more or less agreed to the above and then parted ways. If you were my friend and had accepted his take on the story, would you be likely to react positively to what I said? I feel like what I said was nonconfrontational and conciliatory, but I'd like to hear what others think.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (19 July 2008):
 Thank you again for the followup. Look, I'm going back to my middle long post. You need to create your own closure on this, because he is not going to participate in this in any way. He's decided what his side of the story is, and unfortunately, there's no real way to change that fact. Unless we've got some super unknown stealth memory chips that overwrite previous experience. But we don't.
I understand that his behavior pisses you off, I understand that he changed his tune once you and your girlfriend were an item.
The sad fact is that sometimes people who you thought would be your best friends forever are not in fact going to be friends forever. Something happens that changes everything.
You've had that something happen.
Look, you did wind up with your girl, right?
And he's still out there somewhere, alone and probably rather sad that his friends aren't hanging out with him like they used to.
So either engage him in the fight; but what do you have to gain or lose from that?
The best revenge is living well. And my addendum to that is living with complete and utter indifference to the man who was so two-faced to both of you.
It's not easy, it's not graceful, it's not smooth. So you need to do that girly ritual I mentioned. Serious now. Tape his picture to the toilet and piss on it if you need to. But do NOT expect him to suddenly up and apologize for his behavior, because he has drawn his own lines and will not atone for what you think is a transgression.
I know you think of that as some kind of failure on your part to make him apologize and make him see the error of his ways. He's just not going to participate in this. And you honestly do now need to let it go.
Rent that movie.
Tear up or piss on or generally destroy the pictures you have of him.
You're going to have to find your own closure; he's not in there with you. Frustrating as it may seem.
Do the ritual expunging of him from your life. I know, that sounds idiotic. But there's a reason rituals matter and why they are so compelling to so many people. They provide structure for chaos, unhappiness and uncertainty.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (19 July 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI was trying to be stereotypical with that comment - I think it's lazy to write off things men do because they let their penis dictate their decisions, and should be treated as an anachronism like the expression I used.
I don't feel like you're trying to come down on me. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, even though I'd be lying if I said your words are easy for me to hear. I understand the points you're making, though, and I see where you're coming from. Of course, there is a lot more to the story that would probably lend context and more transparency to why I feel as 'betrayed' as I seem to feel.
Your guess wasn't too far off - due to unfortunate timing, I started 'falling' for my gf just as she had started to give up hope that we'd be together. Again, I deserve a good slap in the face for not being more proactive to stem this miscommunication, but I didn't - and here we are.
As I was making moves towards starting a relationship, my friend had detected a stealth opportunity and positioned himself as a clandestine knight in shining armour. When he could see my moves towards my gf, he used his proximity to convince her that my actions were based on jealousy and not real feelings. This is all while he would bust my balls in public, asking "when I was going to make XXX my girlfriend."
When I'd get pissed or seem uncomfortable, he'd feign confusion and innocence - as if he didn't know exactly what was going on. He even later admitted to me that he had known all along why I was upset and knew it had caused a great strain in our friendship, but still never revealed the truth.
This went on for 3 months, only during the last 4-5 weeks or which did I really start piecing everything together (and start allowing myself to believe it). Once it came out, he came to me with his tail tucked between his legs, told me he loved and respected me as a friend, that he was sorry for not telling me, and that he wanted to find a way to remain friends. He went way beyond the call of duty, at least while he felt he was "ahead".
However, the tables quickly turned once my gf and I opened the lines of communication and decided to be together. His remorseful and conciliatory tone had instantly become angry, spiteful, and completely divorced from the person who'd tearfully asked for my forgiveness not two weeks prior.
His party line took such a radical turn without warning that I was totally caught off guard. Almost overnight, he'd reinvented the past 3 months, absolved himself of any culpability and accused me of being a bad friend. I'm not innocent, and even if I did "steal his fuck buddy" from him, at least I did it openly and notoriously without the scheming, lying, and manipulating he'd engaged in for 3 months.
Maybe this sheds some light on why I still feel the way I do(?).
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (19 July 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionEvery woman may be somebody's ex, but not every woman is a very recent ex (within 2 weeks of breakup) of one of your closest friends.
There is a reason I'm using this forum instead of a court of law to express myself on this issue: human relationships and emotions don't come with black letter law, and therefore require a different kind of treatment. I'm not asking for a cut-and-dry analysis of who did what wrong to whom and each party's contributory negligence. Instead I'm asking people to help me understand the complex and discreet feelings I have about a rough time in my life. Indeed, I have "sucked it up" quite a bit, and I assure you no one has said that more to me than me myself, but there is no "big league" honor in a loose sense of loyalty or a scorched-earth stance towards sex and friendships.
I can understand why you think the commission of sex is the primary act in question here. However, I disagree. Him having sex with my gf didn't kill our friendship. As I stated earlier, I was initially prepared to forgive and rebuild, but his rapid change of behavior revealed a really negative side of his character that had until then managed to remain hidden. In fact, I'm not the only person to see his actions in this way; a select few who witnessed the series of events have subsequently distanced themselves a bit and take their 'friendships' with him with a grain of salt.
You can chalk everything up to the proverbial "guys think with their dicks" excuse, but to me that's like saying a woman can't be rational because she menstruates every month. Not only are both sexes equally capable of appropriate behavior despite the plight of hormones, but I believe most people expect nothing less from those they consider friends.
I'd accept the dick-for-brains excuse if it were some dude off the street, but not from a person who crashed on my couch and took turns being DD with me. I expect a basic amount of respect from those I keep close, and my friend's active and continued deceit and manipulation simply don't meet that threshold.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 July 2008):
Okay, I've reread your last follow up post. Now I do want you to watch the whole movie. Ignore the main plot. Follow the subplot.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 July 2008):
Darn it, I hadn't read your follow up before my last two posts. So take what you can out of them. It sounds like you have moved forward in many ways.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 July 2008):
Oh, and I also wanted to add one more thing before I signed off on your question, sorry. I think that part of the anger you feel is toward your girlfriend, for being involved with him in the first place. But because she is with you and you two are good together, you can't actually acknowledge that she has a bit of responsibility for sleeping with your ex-best friend in the first place, so your anger for him is compounded or doubled. Because you don't want to admit that part of you is really really angry at your girlfriend.
Sorry, again, I meant to add that to the post.
I really do hope you make your own closure and your own peace. He is not going to be a voluntary participant in that, I'm afraid.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 July 2008):
Okay, I'm back. And I have to apologize in advance, once for pounding on you in my first post, when you were obviously upset and hurt by this and trying to find a way to deal with and resolve your feelings, and now for when I do a really idiotic comparison. Bear with me.
Did you ever see the movie 'The Wedding Date'? The one with Debra Messing and Dermot Mulroney? Well, the plot doesn't really matter here. What I'm trying to do here is to have you think about the character of guy who was the unrequited, cheating love interest of the lead actress, as well as being the illicit lover of the bride-to-be. In the last 5 minutes of the film, the wrap up of what happened to all the characters includes the line something like, XXXXX has not learned a thing from this experience.
He is a handsome, charming man, who seems to be completely normal. He's a good enough friend that he is included in the wedding party. He also has NO morals and no comprehension of what kind of damage he is doing to the people around him. And the really sad and to me anger-inducing and frustrating part of the ending, is that we learn that he has learned nothing from this experience, and he never will. Because he's basically an idiot.
So, I feel like a bit of an idiot to bring up this movie, and the end scenes in it. But, that being said, I do think that I understand your anger and frustration and hurt now, better. It just wasn't clear to me in your initial post.
Right, back to your and your need for closure.
I think at some point in life, we all encounter people who truly are amoral or indifferent to the feelings of those around them; that is, they do not feel that society's norms apply to them. From what you've described of this ex-bestfriend, he's one of them. He dated the ex-gf of one of his best friends too? Not such a smart guy, either.
Hmm. Well, I think he puts his own interests and his genitalia ahead of all other considerations, based on your post. Maybe he did have feelings for your gf, but he sounds a bit lost to me, again, based on your description.
Actually, he's kind of a man to be pitied in some ways.
But I think you are going to have to realize that you are not going to reach direct closure with him on your terms. He will avoid it, and even if you do see him, it sounds to me now that he truly will never admit that he did in some way betray you. I expect that he has come up with a rationalization in his own mind for what happened, for not being a true boyfriend to your now girlfriend, that he was never given the chance. And I really doubt that you will be able to budge him from this position.
There may be a slim chance that he told you that he was merely 'filler' and that he didn't plan on being in a true relationship with her because he realized that he had lost her to you. And that nothing that he did would bring her back. Small, slim chance, but perhaps worthy of some thought and pity for him. Because he was trying to save 'face' and keep his ego at the size that he needs it to be to get through life.
Now I'm going to suggest that you do something that I usually only suggest to women going through the painful stages of a break up. I'm doing this because you are actually still in the hurt feelings of a break up; not of lovers, but of someone you thought was a friend.
You need to work up a healthy dose of anger for your ex-friend, gather up all the mementos you have of him, pictures, what have you, have a little funeral for your friendship. Because that is what it is, the death of a friendship. You were hoping beyond hope that he would come to you and apologize for being with her first, and not being truly serious about her as you are. But after a year, I think you need to realize that he has another view of it, and it will never coincide with yours. I'm sorry. But sometimes, friendships end over incidents like this.
So you need to make your own closure. Mentally punch him in the stomach, tear up all his pictures, shred a shirt that he loaned you that you still have.
This sounds just like a girly thing, I know, I know, and I'm sure I'll hear about it from other aunts here. But I sincerely doubt that he is ever going to say the words that you would like to hear. You're going to have to create your own closure.
Rent the movie. It's mildly amusing, kind of a chick flick, but watch the ending very closely. That's where the aha! moment happens for the groom and where we learn the fate of all the characters in the film.
So as "baby duck", another excellent aunt here, would say, create your peace.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (18 July 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThe three of us were close mutual friends. They actually became friends through me, and we were in grad school together. My gf and I had had never officially "dated" at that point, but we were very close and had many of the trappings and elements of a relationship - just not in name.
My gf did not and does not get a pass. We have discussed everything and have worked hard to get where we are. I have forgiven her not only because I love her, but because I know my mixed signals and foot dragging helped push her into the arms of my "friend" who was all-too-willing to manipulate the situation to his benefit. He knew the complicated nature of the friendship between my gf and me, and he slyly played us against each other. This is the reason why I feel harmed - a person who was very close to me took advantage of a situation and used deceit and dishonesty to screw both of us, literally and figuratively.
It is very difficult to know that someone who runs in my close social circle has "carnal knowledge," to borrow the phrase, of my girlfriend. This is without question one of the most bothersome and lingering issues I have about what happened.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 July 2008):
Wow, well, that puts a whole new light on the situation. I'm going to think about this for a little bit, based on the expanded information. And thank you for your follow-up and for not jumping down my throat, as I seem to have done to you. Be back shortly.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (18 July 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you for the responses to my post so far. I appreciate the time it took to formulate and type those well thought out and thorough responses.
Tisha-1:
I appreciate your candid response. Your answer is certainly valid, and one that I have considered before. Let me start by saying, I apologize for implying I wanted to have a physical altercation with my friend. That is not the case at all. In fact, I've never thrown a first punch and have only been in one or two scuffles in my entire life. What I meant by that statement was I would have been happy with ANYTHING--even something as unthinkable and unnecessary as fighting--if it would have helped diffuse the silent stand-off between the two of us.
However, let me tell you a few more aspects of the story and I'd welcome any further response you may have. My friend and gf were never officially together, and I know for a fact he pursued other girls while in a friends-with-benefits situation with my now-gf. They never went on dates or discussed feelings, etc. When everything came to light, he said point blank to me that he never intended on being in a real relationship with her. He even admitted to a mutual friend that he knew he was merely a "filler". He went to great lengths to be chummy and friendly with me immediately after things came to light, and continued to do so until my gf had ended things with him.
So, in my opinion, he must have realized at the time that he was screwing me over. I don't believe he had feelings remotely as strong as I do for her, and I think the feelings he had for her there at the end were more the result of competitive jealousy and ego.
Also, immediately after our situation came to a resolution, my former friend began hooking up with the ex-gf of one of our mutual close friends. This mutual friend was another part of our group of 5 close guy friends, which means that my former friend entered these dangerous, backstabbing situations with 2 out of his 4 closest friends.
I am aware of my role in what happened. I am by no means innocent or an example of how someone should have gone about things. After my gf and I got together, I truly wanted to forgive my friend and try to re-establish some modicum of friendship (albeit a greatly changed one). It was the flip, cavalier, and traitorous side of his character that ended any illusions I had about rebuilding and made me evaluate his role in the whole situation the way I do now.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 July 2008):
I'm sorry, I'm going to be a bit blunt with you here. In the final analysis YOU got the girl and you expect an apology from HIM? What about an apology from your girl to HIM? Or one from you to him for not acknowledging that he might actually have had very strong feelings for her?
I mean after all, he was with her first, and I'm pretty sure that he was just in love with her as you are. Even though you told him, AFTER they were already together, they were after all together, unspoken feelings between you and the girl notwithstanding.
I actually kind of agree with your ex-best-friend, that he was wronged. He was wronged in a way, by the girl that he thought he was with, dumping him for you. And then somehow you decided that you needed the apology from him, not vice versa? He WAS with her first, wasn't he? And aren't his feelings for her as valid and important as yours are? So when you told him that you had first dibs on her, because of these previously unspoken feelings, and then she dumped him for you, he was supposed to feel GOOD about this? And frankly, I think that your girlfriend is getting off scot-free on this one. SHE is the one who was sleeping with your ex-bestfriend for 3 months. SHE knew she had feelings for you; she could have kept her distance from him, and spared his feelings.
Instead you both have treated him like his feelings don't matter at all, and that he's entirely in the wrong, and that he isn't entitled to some righteous degree of anger. And YOU'RE angry at HIM? You were ready for even a physical altercation to have some closure. He has given you closure. He has cut you out of his life, with some fair amount of good reason, but you seem to want to punish him for having ever been with your now girlfriend in the first place. Well, that is just unfair, and wrong. Sorry again for being blunt, but I am calling it as I see it.
You're going to have to let it go; you have won the girl, what's the point of stomping on his heart and his ego and his psyche again?
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A
female
reader, pashanoodle +, writes (18 July 2008):
It sounds like you have alot of insight into your feelings and the 'options' you have in this situation. It seems to me that the only way forward for you is to try and let go of your anger, and to try and forgive this guy. I'm sure you're thinking how inpossible that is - but at the end of the day you are the one being eaten up by this emotion - not him. The only way you are going to spend the rest of your life dwelling on this is if YOU let yourself. You already know that.
Sometimes friendships end - badly - and because of the closeness prior it makes it almost impossible to believe it could wind up in such an ugly way.I think most people could think of a friendship that ended negatively. You probably just can't understand his actions/lack of insight/lack of remorse etc. You expected more from him, thought you knew him, could trust him, thought he cared about you the same way.... and some part of you is not ready to let go of the guy you 'thought' he was - the one who was your best mate. That's why you keep hoping he will come to you and apologise even tho that 'head' side of you knows that it is unlikely ,you don;t want to see him as all bad...that kind of forces you to look closely at your own sense of judgment of people, maybe you sunconsciously feel like a fool for ever having been friends with a guy like him?? There are probably alot of underlying emotions, themes, reflections.
It's OK to think of the times you had together as friends fondly - that was real, he was your best friend (even if it's hard to reconcile the two different phases now)...but you have to let that side of things go too. No matter what happens that friendship is gone, changed forever - so grieve for it but accept it.
You may never feel "closure" about what happened, but you can feel better about it. You say you and your GF are truly happy - well, look at what you have in your life that is good, what you have to look forward to...rather than reuminating about the past. Whenever you start to think about the friend and the negative stuff - consciously change your thoughts to something else.
You could always try writing him a letter - that you never send...just to 'get it all out'.
At the end of the day, the only way to let it go is to make up your mind that you are going to look forward and to accept that you may never fully understand what happened but that you cannot change it. Then focus on YOU and your GF...good things in your life.
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