A
female
age
26-29,
*crystalxo
writes:I am a young 27 year old entrepreneur and my time at this point in my career is so important to me as I'll be launching my business in a few months. I am single and freshly out of a tumultuous 2 relationship with a narcissist so I have been trying to heal and spend some alone time with myself.I have a few friends who are totally solid, in their career fields, always offering advice, in healthy relationships. These are the type of people I feel i am vibrationally aligned with.On the flip side, I have a friend who Ive known for approximately 4/5 years who engages with people who in my opinion are completely toxic/enjoy to watch drama unfold and i don't know how to get passed this.I went to this friends birthday party who's boyfriend is extremely sneaky and untrustworthy, complete cheater in my opinion. She has chosen to stay with him despite advice from many close friends (along with her parents and siblings) to run for the hills. That's a choice she made, i will respect it. Her partner tried to play cupid and connect me with one of his friends who i have no interest in:1. because i am healing2. birds of a feather flock together i notified him that i am healing and have no interest in meeting anyone at this time. I am not somebody who shares my personal life with strangers, i am EXTREMELY private. After sharing that, you would think that he would back off but he kept insisting until ...another individual at the party stepped in and stated that the person he is trying to connect me with has a fiancee. I just thought that this was so disrespectful because at this age I am not looking but when i do decide to, i will be looking for substance. someone who is in it for the long run... marriage, children etc. and his excuse was "oh well who cares, his fiancee is white" I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. No remorse or apology.This friend was somewhat of an "accountability partner" when it came to working together on our separate businesses. But on multiple occasions I have driven 2hrs total to work together and once i get there, she will be too sad to work because her boyfriend did something stupid which makes her think hes cheating and will get so intoxicated that ZERO work is completed. I have been empathetic up to this point and was very honest when she flat out asked me for advice but at this point i have had enough.She constantly comes to me to "vent" about her boyfriend and also vents (but feels like smack talk) about a mutual friend (who I actually have a stronger bond with) after I've repeatedly notified her i do not want to triangulate myself and be in the middle of it, i told her to speak with our mutual friend. This mutual friend has a heart of gold and does not deserve to be talked about in the manner which she is and the reasoning: she called her saying she won't be able to make it to her birthday party because she has to work on an assignment. This mutual friend is in college/university AND is working and even offered to take her out to dinner to make up for it. Pretty much, this friend has completely changed. She's become EXTREMELY entitled, snobby, judgemental and full of drama. i can hardly recognize her. I am a very empathetic person and I am always open to helping others but this is draining me to the core. She calls multiple times throughout the day while I'm trying to work. My finances are not where i want them to be and starting a business is RISKY but i have the market and clientele ready so i need to really focus on this right now. What advice should i give to friends in toxic relationships when I KNOW they're just going to continue going back?How do i cut the cord on this relationship? Am i wrong for thinking this person is toxic?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2022): Please understand that sometimes toxic people can find their way into our lives and that is up to us to stop them.
It doesn't matter who that person is, a friend, a sister, a mother...
If I were you (and I've been in yuor position at some point in my life) I'd just slowly let the friendship die. I'd stop "feeding" her. You know best what she looks for in a friend. In my case, I just stopped taking her calls and would call her back with more and more delays. Why? Because she craves attention! She never called to see how I was, she always had something to tell me, to vent. So I stopped enabling her. The same thing for texts. And it worked. After a while.
Good luck!
A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2022): You drive two hours to spend time with this person "working"?
Has it not occurred to you that she is not mentally capable of doing this work? It's great for her if you drive all that way and then she can bend your ear for ages before you drive back home again. What a waste of time. And then you do it again?! The best way to stop someone behaving this way is to insist they come to you - they can waste their four hours travelling and their petrol, and when they arrive
you say you feel a bit urgh and are not up to work.
See how they like it when the boot is on the other foot.
You are behaving far too accommodating and nice towards her. And she takes and takes. A business survives by having paying customers/clients. If you are this accommodating to them you will starve to death. All businesses get clients/customers who try it on, they will lie if they have to. They will try to get free services, goods, steal and all sorts. If you cannot spot it with this woman how will you spot it and handle it with them?
Your non friend is not normal. A normal person arranges to work on a certain day and sticks to it unless illness gets in the way. They don't arrange it and then at the last minute say they cannot do it because they are upset or an argument or whatever. They don't allow their private life to interfere with it. How would she have been able to do that if she worked in an office 9 - 5 weekdays? Would she ring her boss and say sorry my boyfriend said such and such last night so I need the day off?! Talk about a prima donna.
She is not taking the "business" seriously and using it as an excuse to get you to go to see her so she can vent when you get there. Not only is she using you to vent at but you travel all the way to her place to make it easy peasy for her. Handing it on a plate.
I bet some of that work could be done by phone or email without the two hour drive. But why choose to do this with someone who is incapable and too emotional and selfish?
They will get nowhere in business and drag you down down them. There is nothing sensible about choosing to work with someone who is so far away. When you visit a person like that about work I am sure far less time is spent on work and most of the time is chitter chat and travelling, a bad use of time. The expense of going there and back and the time put into it never explains itself for what is achieved.
I wonder if you like the idea of dreaming about being an entrepreneur and going through the motions of some of it
but want to hold onto this woman so that you can use her as the excuse when it all comes to nothing and you have to get a job stacking shelves in Walmart?
You seem to be annoyed that this woman does not listen to your advice about her boyfriend. Why would she? You yourself got into and stayed in a bad relationship and now you are doing the same thing with her as a so called friend who is just a drain. You cannot think clearly about your own relationships. If she is supposedly on the level and capable she ought to be able to afford to consult a professional about her boyfriend and emotions, she would not have to make do with an amateur. If you have the wherewithal to set up a good business so can you. It's far cheaper to consult a professional than set up a proper business. In many ways you are doing the same as her. She vents and moans about her boyfriend, you vent and moan about her, instead of getting rid or distancing yourself.
Friendships are supposed to enhance your life. I can see how she wants you as a friend, it's great to have a victim willing to have their ear bent at every opportunity, and hard to come by. But nothing in it for you.
Unless you are so short of friends it is a case of grabbing onto anyone you can without looking at the quality of them.
You should not have to buy her friendship by putting up with a lot of time wasting and being bored to tears.
If she is unhappy with her boyfriend it is up to her to end that relationship or sit him down and sort it out with him. You say your old boyfriend was a narcissist but she sounds even worse.
You seem to think it is a compliment if she comes to you when she is angry or upset yet again. It is not. She would go to anyone who listens for as long as she wants.
And she does not care what you think or say, you are just there to listen. She knows you are not able to give her good advice but she wants what I call a verbal dustbin.
She feels better if she goes on about whatever for as long as suits her and that is all that matters to her.
If you are in the middle of work at that moment so what, she is very selfish.
If you were working for someone else and she rang you to go on and on your job would soon come to an end. No boss would put up with you being on the phone for ages whenever a friend fancied it, especially if they are paying you a guaranteed wage for that day. The fact she thinks she can do this proves she does not respect you and has no idea of how to run a business. No discipline. The fact you let her do this worries me. You cannot run a business on the basis of how you will probably do such and such today but might get distracted by the nice weather, change to get together with someone or phone calls. You have set working hours and during those hours it's work and work only. Unless it is an organised break or lunch time. One of the reasons that people who try to set up their own business fail is that they are not disciplined about working hours.
End up working less than part time hours when it should be full time.
I have people pay me for advice about setting up a business etc. The thing they fail to see is that they pay for one bit of advice and get that sorted, then a few days, weeks or maybe months later they need to do it again, and then again and then again. And really it is me running their business not them. They are just pretending to. Now imagine if I met someone like that in my social circle and she thought she could phone me for hours and see me for hours for free advice? No thanks.
Ask yourself the real reason you are still in touch with this non friend. It will tell you a lot about yourself. Consider consulting a good therapist. I think you need to. This wishy washy way you have of seeing things and being indecisive will get you nowhere in business.
You need to be as decisive and smart about who to have as a friend and how to do business first and you need to change before you can. You need professional help to do that.
Remember that many of the people who reply to you here have never had or run a successful business, so they can sympathise and say stuff but does it make sense?
I've met lots of women like your non friend. All users.
All boring. All selfish. I don't let them have my phone number or address and I would never spend time with them.
I'd rather read a good book.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2022): To be successful in business you need to be hard and make sensible decisions. You are not an entrepreneur until you have set up a business and made a success of it, right now you are a wannabee, and you may become an entrepreneur in the future. But to be honest you have to buck your ideas up.
Someone who succeeds in business is someone who plans things and is sensible. You remember that time is money, you do things in a certain way that suit you, you do not allow people to drag you down to their level. You make your own sensible decisions. If you cannot do that about a "friend" who is not really a friend and you need to ask others for advice about that I am not sure you can set up a business and make it a success. Because that is far harder.
And takes a lot longer.
Let us look at one thing you told us about. Your friend ringing you when you are working to have your listening ear.
I used to get this all of the time. The simple solution is to not answer the phone when you are busy. Simple. So simple. And if for any reason you answer it but are too busy to listen you say sorry too busy now and put the phone down, not let them go on for as long as they want. You will need to make bigger and more important decisions like this each and every day. How will you do that on your own??
Business is not just about giving yourself the fancy label of entrepreneur (untrue in this case) or earning money,
it is also about being responsible,wise and working hard.
I know loads of people who have tried and failed at it.
A
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2022): I am a well known full time professional therapist, have been for many years, like you I am empathic and understand about birds of a feather and how we get together with those we are on the same level as. Like you I want to be with people who are sorted - not hangers on, freeloaders, people who want to vent all the time is a good example - and with me it is coals to newcastle, my clients pay me to listen to their vents, so the last thing I want is more of the same during my precious time off of work!! That time is for real friends, partner, family, getting out, fun and worthwhile things not being bored to tears.
But look back to how you were in a relationship with a narc. These things do not happen by chance. Something drew you to it for quite a while. Eventually you saw the light.
Why did all this happen and why you?
I often meet women who get drawn to me because they want to be able to phone or go around to a woman "they know" who is not a friend, but where there are no boundaries and where they can take take take all of the time. That is usually then venting for hours about tiny things which other people would not even bother to remember let alone talk about.
i.e. "oh dear, I am so upset and worried, John said he would phone me at 8 pm but he did not ring till 8.21, why do you think this was?" Wanting to nit pick and analyse every breath John makes or does not make is a full time job, totally pointless anyway. And says far more about them than it does about John!
The trouble is that most people in the world are not sorted.
Most people in the world are more likely to be venters
than keep their own counsel or be sensible and grown up.
So when you are thrown into a crowd of a hundred strangers you are more likely to get the venters want to attach to you. And they want to attach to you because you can benefit them. They are desperate to find another person who will listen to hours of their venting, or lend them money or whatever.
When I meet new people I never tell them I am a well known therapist - it would be very stupid to - I would get even more of them nagging me for my phone number/address and wanting to hang onto me like leeches. But the thing is that
if they are looking for someone strong, more capable, who can give/lend them money or listen to their venting for hours they will still be drawn to you, whatever your job.
So long as (a) it is free, no charge at all financially
(b) there is no inconvenience to them.
So they will think it fine if you spend two hours travelling to them. OR they get you up at 3 am for a long venting session. All of that is fine because you are there to fulfill their needs. You must remember this will never be a two way street. They will always be selfish and self obsessed, always just looking to how it is good for them with no thought to what is fair to you.
You say about setting up a business. You really need to start to be more canny about who you mix with, who you are available to and who you give time to, otherwise that business will never get anywhere.
I get an average of a hundred women write to me through my websites every week saying they want to be an online friend.
Now think about this. None of them have met me or spoken to me. The only thing they know about me is my career/profession/job - a well known therapist.
They would not care if I was white, black, tall, thin,
hate animals, love travelling, none of that matters.
They are just after the equivalent of a free listening ear and someone to listen to their vents.
And because they want it free they are willing to grab onto anyone who seems to be able to do it well and does not charge.
I've had people like this turn up on my doorstep!
Hi, are you that therapist, I really need your help etc.
No mention of making an appointment or paying though!!!!
I learnt years ago that if someone has not got an appointment to see me I never even go to the front door when the doorbell rings.
Remember that business is business, love is another matter.
Once you tell people you own a business or are setting one up they want some of the action, so long as you put all the energy and money in. I know, I've had plenty of it.
We call such people users and losers.
If you can move away from a narc that you were in a relationship with then you do not get together with "friends" who are users and losers instead.
And don't take any notice of people who say they are setting up a business but are not sensible enough and grown up enough to make it work. They will waste a lot of your time.
AND get nowhere. 75% of the people who say they are going to set up a business get nowhere, it is all talk or they are not smart enough or not hard working enough.
Over the years I've accumulated six houses due to using my smarts and working hard. I paid for them cash and the house I live in is fantastic, a dream. I've met many who are jealous of it or ask me for money! These are not the sort of people you want in your life - not even as an acquaintance. Life is too short. And friendships that are all give do not work for the giver. I used to work till 11 pm every single night, with never a day off, so I get very annoyed when people tell me how "lucky" I was to end up with all this. They too could have been lucky if they had applied their brain and worked very long hours every single day for years.
Don't ever mix friendship with business anyway. It never works. I have staff who work for me who I like.
But I never make friends with them, it's fatal.
If I do they start to ask for more wages, favours,
where it is all take take take. The same with clients.
You need to be discerning and weigh up the pros and cons of everything and everyone. Don't think that because someone wears a nice outfit or smiles that changes it.
Remember that inadequate women who want to vent all the time only want you for that. Not you as a person.
Just as a convenience. If you were ill they would be too busy to ring to ask if you need help.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2022): Congrats that you got yourself out of that nasty relationship!
Gossipy drama queens usually only vent or hang around anybody willing to listen. They pretend to want your advice; which they'll never listen to. They just need to corner you for your attention. Don't think for one minute you're the only one she's been cornering to pour the tea with. She has been from one person to the next; and will linger around the one most willing to sit and listen to her. She won't let-go of her no-count boyfriend, because he feeds her drama; and she gets to live-out her own soap opera and live TV reality show. You're simply a captive audience; because you'll be a friend and humor her. You'll sit and listen, until your ears bleed. I've been there, and I've done that!
Make it a practice to shut people down who like to gossip. Make it abundantly clear that you don't talk about people, especially those you consider your friends; then abruptly change the subject. If you listen to gossip from a gossip-monger, just remember the same person will be talking about you behind your back! They'll even claim to the next person it's what you said, to throw anybody off who wants to know where it came from; or to make it seem as if you're in agreement with her negative-opinions about somebody else. Clear your name, and make sure you're not implicated in her gossip!
If she can't find a shoulder to cry on, or an ear to bend; she'll just keep searching until she finds somebody else...and she'll be right-back, after making her rounds! If you seem too unsympathetic; she'll just add more drama and intrigue to the story by the time it reaches her next captive victim. Her boyfriend could be a blood-thirsty terrorist; but she'll never let him go!!! Because she loves him!
Drama queens don't really want advice; they like to play the victim, and sulk about how badly they're mistreated. She's the leading lady, or damsel in distress, in her own little romance novel. Any advice to leave the loser, and the source of her "alleged" problems; and you're quickly dismissed! You'll be considered mean, or bitter, due to your own past-relationship. Never saying, but implying, that maybe you're jealous she still has a man; or maybe you don't have one, because you're not as sensitive and loving as she is. That's what she'll tell the next listener; if you tell her what she doesn't want to hear!
Girlfriend, you can give her advice until you're blue in the face. She isn't letting him go; because "she just loves the man...or, her relationship is just complicated!" You and I know it's a hot mess! She sounds so much like somebody that I used to know! You've survived a narcissist, and you're the best source of advice she could ever find! You're wasting your breath, she only wants your ears! Oh, and a lot of sympathy!
There are people who like to remain in "trauma-bonds" with people who are as broken and messed-up as they are. It's unfortunate when people remain in bad-relationships too long; because they start forming scars. They hide their pain, pretend they can handle it; and keep trying to hang-on to people who are messing-up their minds. They'll get hurt, and scarred so much; they will become embittered and deeply traumatized. Every relationship they'll have thereafter will endure all their insecurities and distrust. They will expect the same problems they had in the past to manifest; because they assume all relationships/men are alike. That's because when you remain in a bad-relationship for too long, you're also conditioning yourself to see only the worse things that can happen. You'll develop emotional wounds that run deep. You'll lose hope, and become cynical. Thank God, you're a survivor!
People sometimes think if they stick around long enough things will just change for the better; or they will discover a magic formula that will miraculously "change" their partner.
The problem with that foolish-notion is that they're now a mess, their mate is a mess, and nothing is going to change. Things will just get worse!
You can't delude yourself into thinking loving someone will change their ways. You don't stay until you're destroyed! Love can't survive in an environment full of distrust, abuse, and dysfunction. Traumatized-people are not working at full-capacity; so when they do finally get out of a bad-relationship, they might find a good-person who hasn't undergone a past full of dysfunction and drama. That poor unsuspecting person will inherit all that baggage and malfunction leftover from the ex. You are quite wise to focus on yourself. Dedicate your energies to healing, self-improvement, and building your start-up business.
You wean toxic-people off by seeing them less and less; always being "busy" or just on your way to another engagement. Maybe you're just not in the mood to talk right-now. Put them off until they get tired of trying to corner you into one of their ear-bending sessions. You can postpone their calls, or visits, until you have time for a little extra nonsense. Your lack of accessibility usually repels their intrusions and they'll slowly get the message. Sometimes an abrupt ending to the friendship will cause unnecessary drama or retaliation; when you share mutual-friends. She'll surely run to the others and try to turn them against you; so slowly back-off.
One thing that I find that often works with people who always come bearing bad-news, gossip, or something to whine about. Cut them them off by telling them all the good things happening to you; and let them know you're in a really great mood, and want to avoid anything that will kill your joy!
Misery wants company, not to hear something that will neutralize their tales of sorrows and woes. If they've come with their knife to stick in somebody's back, tell them "not today Satan!" I always tell people to take their problem to the person they have a problem with, and leave me out of it! Remain in the neutral-zone, and let them hash-out their issues.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie  + ♥, writes (9 April 2022):
Let the "friendship" run its course. Just be less and less available.
Put her number on silence or block it and if she later contacts you through other means give a low battery, gotta go excuse.
Or when you are good and ready to "dump" her as a friend do it gently. Tell her, you feel you have too much on your plate with the business and working through the last breakup to invest in her drama too.
Stick to the friends who are a positive influence on your life, people you can share things with, and whom you can trust.
The fact that she tried to set you up with a guy who is engaged is gross. Sounds like she wanted to start drama, use you as a "pawn" in some little game or she is just a cruel person.
You don't OWE her a friendship.
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A
female
reader, Youcannotbeserious  + ♥, writes (9 April 2022):
 Sticking labels such as "toxic" on your "friend" is not going to help with anything. The important things here, from what I can surmise from your post, are that:
1. Your friend drains you emotionally. This is very important and should be taken very seriously. What are you getting in exchange? I see no mention of anything in your post.
2. Your friend drags you into her personal life, asks for advice, but then ignores it and keeps making the same mistakes over and over. Why do you even bother giving her advice when you know she will ignore it? She doesn't WANT advice; she wants someone to just listen to her moaning about her self inflicted pain.
3. Your friend has paired up with someone who has no respect for others and wants to drag them down to his level. Trying to pair you up with a friend who is engaged is totally out of order.
What do you WANT to do about this woman who just parasites on your good nature? I know what I would do and I think you already know what you have to do; you are just reluctant to do it through some misguided sense of loyalty. Loyalty is a two way street. Stop being loyal to people who have no loyalty towards you.
If nothing else, you need to set some boundaries immediately, like not accepting any communication from her when you are busy working. She is selfish and has no regard for you or your work. Why are you so reluctant to end this "friendship"? If you can answer that question, perhaps you can work out how to come to terms with the fact that this relationship does not improve your life in any way; it just drags you down emotionally.
Good luck with your new business. Why not make getting rid of unsupportive friends part of your new start?
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