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anonymous
writes: I have read so many questions and responses on DC. The most common response or feedback is IF HE OR SHE HAS CHEATED ON HIS/HER GIRLFRIEND/BOYFRIEND OR WIFE/HUSBAND BEFORE, YOU SHOULD NOT BE WITH HIM/HER BECAUSE HE/SHE WOULD DO THE SAME TO YOU!So, it looks like if you have cheated before, you are not worthy of any future relationships.Cheaters are 'red flags'. So, cheaters, best not to get involve with anyone. Just have fun because you have been labelled and generalised as worthless to be significant in anyone's lives. My question is, who made you the judge and juror of cheaters, abusers, player etc? Why the need to impose YOUR values and principles on others?Such generalisation that people never change is the reason why addicts, criminals, cheaters, abusers, players, etc. never do because NO ONE BELIEVES THEY WOULD. BELIEFS like this that communities have for these people are a powerful tool for them. How would anyone survive or change if no one believes in them?No one likes or even condone cheaters, abusers, players etc. But is it not better to view issues in other perspectives? Edward DeBono's thinking skills should be aptly used in most of the issues here, in my opinion. If you have been a cheater, abuser, player, only you understand why you did what you have done. Get help, find answers and be proactive in making changes in your life. No one can do that for you. But I do know that all of us are WORTHY of love, no matter what we have done. We are after all only humans that are bound to err. God does forgive us when we change our ways.Many people may disagree or agree with me. So please feel free to comment. I would love to hear your provoking thought processes.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 July 2013): I think that if someone has cheated in the past, it doesn't automatically disqualify them from a future relationship IF they have suffered greatly and enough from their past bad choices that they have reformed.however, I do not believe that the person who got betrayed should be expected to give the cheater a second chance just because they apologize and say they wont' do it again. It's great if the cheater has learned their mistake and changed for the better, but that qualifies them for a NEW relationship with someone new whom they haven't already scarred. also there's karma. if you've betrayed someone in the past, you have the same coming to you in the future. Sure you are 'allowed' to have relationships, but don't be surprised if you find yourself getting cheated on. as advice-givers to people who are hurting and confused, it only makes sense to warn them against a cheater. as the saying goes "the best predictor of future behavior, is past behavior." Sure it's possible that the cheater has changed, but why would anyone recommend that an innocent and/or hurting person open themselves up to a higher probability of getting hurt? Abusers: abuse is always a pattern, never just a one-off or anomaly. behavior patterns are ingrained, most often through learned experiences that shaped the way the abuser thinks and reacts. lack of emotion regulation, lack of self control, deep seated insecurities, also contribute to this abusive pattern. Learned experience that doing abusive behaviors pays off because the victim ends up doing what the abuser wants - this further ingrains the abusive habits. It is not easy for an abuser to change. in fact, statistics show that the majority of abusers don't change, or not significantly. Why would any sane person recommend that someone asking for advice open themselves up to getting hurt? Abuse is a cycle and it gets passed down from generation to generation through imprinting of thinking/behavior patterns that warps the victims' minds. Some victims go on to become abusers themselves and now perpetuate abuse on others and warp others the way they themselves were once warped. Other victims stay forever victims and become vulnerable to more abuse from other people besides just the original abuser, in fact these victims even become "abuser magnets" e.g. going from one abusive relationship to another. The cycle of abuse has to stop. And one effective way is to deny the abuser the opportunity to wreck their damage, that's why we caution people to stay away or walk away from abusers. The cycle has to stop before more people get hurt and warped, and in most cases you cannot count on the abuser stopping themselves so the victim has to be the one to put an end to it by cutting loose from the abuser or simply not becoming a victim in the first place.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 July 2013): well, two cheaters could get together, then neither of them has the right to cast judgment on the other
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reader, pinktopaz  +, writes (24 July 2013):
YouWish, no offense taken!
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (23 July 2013):
 No matter how good a Christian/human/person you think you are (or you are) (general you, not YOU specifically). WE ALL JUDGE other people. I judge, you judge, they judge.
So I suggest you get off your high horse, and accept that is part of the human experience. Some keep their opinions to themselves, others "share" and again others OVER-SHARE. (as in they are more busy judging others then looking in the mirror.) It's a part survival mechanism, part social mechanism.
If you have been cheated on (again using a GENERAL YOU)- that is something you don't want to experience again. Just like getting stabbed or sitting on an anthill - not that I am saying these 3 examples are the same, they obviously aren't, but in their own way they are all painful. So WHY would a person who has been cheated on NOT judge and TRY to avoid that situation again? Does it mean they think cheaters are less "worthy" of love? Not necessarily, but they KNOW from experience that cheaters can cause pain.
I think it's hypocritical to say don't judge - that is only for GOD. Maybe at the end the FINAL judgement of how YOU lived YOUR life is for a god to judge, but judging other, gauging them, reading them - call it whatever you feel comfortable with, is part of HOW we survive.
So in MY non-Christian beliefs I think it's pretty NATURAL to judge, but I ALSO think that there are times to give people benefit of the doubt.
Here is the thing though. You can be a tolerant person and still JUDGE. I am. Does it mean that every person I meet I judge them from head to toe? I don't. I don't care what you chose to wear, how you have your hair, but I DO (at least internally) judge you for what comes out of your mouth and for your actions. I judge myself all the time. I try and think before I speak and think before I act. I TRY to be a good person, good friend, good mother, good wife, good daughter, sister...... Not because I worry about being JUDGED at the end of my life, but because that is who I am.
People who cheat once, regret and never re-offend learned a lesson. They HAD a choice (like we all do in that) and they CHOOSE to cheat.
A LOT of the people dealing with cheaters who come here to DC to ask for advice, are NOT dealing with a one-time cheater, they are usually dealing with a "serial" one.
Aunties and uncles on here - give advice based on their life experience, on common sense and some on a more spiritual level. That is why you see different answers. They READ the question and they "pass personal judgement" - does it mean that the poster HAS to follow the advice, they can just take it in, ignore it, think on it, mull on it. I don't think there is a black and white answer to these questions. Just different people's thoughts.
Take it or leave it, it's up to you (general you still)
*steps of her soapbox*
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reader, YouWish +, writes (23 July 2013):
 Right. There's forgiveness and then there's intelligence.
To the cheater, there will always be a justification for cheating. It's the one they use to the person they're cheating with, and it's the one they use for themselves.
With respect to pinktopaz, I don't judge you. Everyone's story is different, so I don't mean to offend you by this list:
Justifications for cheating that sound noble (and the reason why it's not a good justification):
1. We haven't had sex in months/years. (Ever hear of talking, counseling, or breaking up before getting involved with someone else?)
2. She/He hates me and doesn't care about me. (have they said that, or are you just believing that so you can go have an affair? If it's true, then why not leave them first?)
3. He/she is verbally/emotionally abusive. (Do you think cheating won't exacerbate that fact? Leave him/her!)
4. We've grown apart. (So do the mature thing and end the relationship honorably)
5. I would feel guilty leaving them as they would not be able to survive without my caring for them. (I bet they would do a lot better than having your affection alienated. Again, talk to them about how you feel and the result may surprise you)
6. He/she is physically abusive. (and them finding out about you sleeping around will be like gasoline on a fire. Get your friends, family, police, and run)
7. He/she was there when I was emotionally vulnerable. (Unless you were chained naked to a bed, you still have the ability to control yourself. Emotionally vulnerable to a point where you have no control over decision making means you need professional help).
8. I was blackout drunk and didn't know what I was doing (unless you're a 19 year old and it's your first time dealing with alcohol, you're as responsible for cheating as you would be for a drunk driving death or a murder or an assault).
9. He/she came on to me and wouldn't take no for an answer. (You couldn't tell your partner about unwanted attention? This is either you wanted it, or it's rape. Having sex twice a week in the back of a car for two months sorta rules rape out, and if it was rape, telling your partner and calling the police is the way to handle it, not more secret sex.)
10. My ex and I never got over each other (then you should never have gotten involved with someone else in the first place. Emotions not nurtured can be starved. You didn't get over him/her because you didn't want to.)
11. My partner isn't the person I thought they were (Again, divorce or breakup before bringing in someone else)
12. I am a sex addict with low self-esteem and need help. (doesn't make it any less wrong. You may need help, but not a pass in doing what you want with loving understanding. Child porn users don't get to use that excuse. Get help or be alone)
I could go on and on, but no matter what excuse or justification, cheating is an emotional assault and devastation against a partner. That is why people have such strong reaction to it. It's a betrayal and a traumatic event in any relationship. Breaking up and divorce may be painful and humiliating, but it's honorable. And kids oftentimes are the innocent victims of the trauma that messes them up and causes them to grow up before their time and feel the tearing in their hearts that is a tragedy.
That's why I don't date cheaters. Like I said, I think there are second chances, and I can never say never, but every time I think about it, I think of the innocent family and children destroyed and abandoned.
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 July 2013): I knew several people in my life who cheated and talked about it, I also suspect that many people who I know did cheat at least once and never talked about it.
I strongly believe that monogamy is not in our genes. I believe we created morals to survive as humans, so we can stay with one partner and avoid unwanted babies and diseases.
There are several kind of cheaters. You are generalizing, but there are so many varieties where some who cheat once never cheat again, and some who know they will cheat no matter what. Sometimes it takes an ugly form form like swinging(forgive me, swingers out there), I could never understand this concept, or going to hookers. This you can classified as some form of addiction. But most cheaters, I think especially women just become infatuated with someone for different reasons, some out of boredom, some because they fell in love, or missing something with their partner. This kind more likely do it once, or may be couple more times in their life and be done with it.
Those who I described as sort of addicts basically are impossible to recover and become a different person. Sex is very powerfull as much if not more as drugs. Plus you cant really die from sex, if you use precautions as from other substances like drugs or alcohol.
It's seems really harmless in physical aspect. It brings you pleasure and no harm to your health. That's why it was only recently classified as a form of addiction. Married men went to prostitutes since this became a profession. Insome cultures it's a stop from work on a way home, and very much acceptable by society.
I wouldn't put too much hope in someone who cheated or someone who never cheated that they will never do it. Sex is not cocain. If you never tried cocain you would never know what it does to you. Sex all of us experience without exclusion, it's a natural state of your body function, that's how nature intended. That's why so called recovery is basically impossible. But then again it's my theory along with many others.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (23 July 2013):
 Worthy? who defines worthy? who sits at a big desk making judgements about what people do and do not deserve?
does an abusive drunk deserve to be allowed to drink and abuse people?
I do not believe that ONCE a cheater ALWAYS a cheater.
HOWEVER a PATTERN of cheating/lying is NOT to be ignored.
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 July 2013): I am the original poster.
Thanks so much for all of your comments and feedback on my post.
I agree with all of your view points as all you have looked at it from many different perspectives, some based on own experience.
YouWish, this is not a rant!!! Am too old to easily rant on issues like this. Just wanted to voice my opinion. And YOU are not judgemental, you have your own values and principles that you adhere too, based on your rationale.
pinktopaz, I hear you and empathize what you have been through.
AuntyEm, I love your insightful feedback.
highmaintanance101, ha ha ha. Thanks for taking your time for a lengthy reply. Can't help laughing at how you explain with some sarcastic undertones. You are definitely right in some points.
largentsgirl89, thank you so much for the link, a great read.
iAmHereToHelpYou, wow, you get it all wrong about my ending. You are basically just reading what I wrote, but you are unable to 'hear' me. I AM really trying to understand how most of the uncles and aunts here think. If you found that sarcastic, well, that is your perspective, and I have to accept that. Well, I did PROVOKE you I guess...
Anyway, I respect all of your thoughts. Ultimately, it would be on the OPs' shoulder to think through all the DC aunts/uncles advice and choose the best for themselves.
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reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (23 July 2013):
 I agree with you lumping the cheaters in with the addicts. I'm somewhat skeptical of the worthy of love theory. Current theory says that cheating is addictive. I've seen enough evidence to agree with that.
Now to the worthy of love / christian forgiveness idea. I do believe in Forgiving people, I do believe that people can and do change. But I still believe in protecting the innocent. In other words I will forgive a person but I am not going to put them, or leave them in a situation where they will be able to easily slide back into their abandoned problem. Self protection has a higher priority than right to be trusted.
That is why we warn against cheaters. There is one other thing. So often here we are warning the person who foolishly enters a relationship with a previously committed person. In effect becoming their partner in cheating, fully expecting that the cheater will suddenly be faithful to them as soon as the divorce is signed. Now even you should see the folly in that line of thinking.
FA
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reader, largentsgirl89 +, writes (23 July 2013):
 Most people who are continual cheaters generally don't change their behavior, whether it's a psychological disorder or a character flaw. But there are a few people, who if they really want to change and don't want to cheat, then they won't and they will remain faithful.
Depends on the person and the circumstances. There are exceptions for everything but very few. Most cheaters/abusers don't change their behavior patterns.
Check out this awesome article by Psychology Today.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/surprised-love/201201/once-cheater-always-cheater-maybe-not
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reader, chigirl  +, writes (23 July 2013):
 Give me a break, cheaters and abusers dont change because of generalization? BS. They dont change because they dont want to. If they wanted to change they would. To have a will of your own is crucial, and to blame a lack of will on others is nothing but an excuse.
Sure they can have relationships again, if they've worken on themselves and changed. Despite them being a "risk", there are still tons of naive and gullible people out there who are willing to take such a risk. So cheaters, abusers etc get dusins of chances to prove how they have changed. Its just that most do not change over night. It can take years, or never happen.
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 July 2013): To answer your question:
Who made you the judge and juror of cheaters, abusers, player etc? Why the need to impose YOUR values and principles on others?
Well number 1:
People come her for advise.
So they are asking for opinions.
They are asking for help.
These are people who are lost, probably, they have no one to talk to, so they go online to pour out their heart and looking for somebody whom they could talk with sense.
Somebody who have experienced the same things they are experiencing.
People from here are sharing information about how they find out that they had been cheated.
After being cheated, how they were able to recover from it.
Its not like passing your own values or principles to others. Its more like a help.
Because at the end of the day, The decision is for the question asker to make. Whether to take it or just ignore it.
Your right, no one is allowed to judge, (Only the Good Lord above) I do believe that everyone deserves a second chance.
However, lets face it, We are human beings. Born to Make Mistake, Its hard hard for a cheater or a player to change.
Have you ever experienced someone made you pregnant and then after he learned about it he just left and then you found out his womanizing the next day? When you talk to him he said I don't care about you, I don't want that child.
I hate drama. I'm done with you.
Not only that, Have you ever experience getting engaged with your bf and then you found out he made someone pregnant during your relationship. you still forgive him he said he would change then after a few months you caught him womanizing again. On top of that, he made the girl pregnant, AGAIN.
Have you ever experience fighting with your husband on and on and on because he wont change womanizing, he keep on promising but he still do the same thing after every 3 months and he have passed on std to you because he keeps cheating?
What would you advise to those people who have this kind of problems?
O.k just go with it and wait until he change? wait until you get a.i.d.s?wait until you get crazy?
Duh.Of course not. If you have a daughter or a son who undergo the same problem, what would you do? what would you say?
I believe in love and second chances but not the one that will put my life in danger because of stress for hoping and hoping for nothing.
I'm sure God will not approve for you to get STD, A.I.D.S or other kinds of sexual diseases.
If cheaters, players, criminals would really want to change, they need to do it seriously.
Because its easier said than done.
Its like a habit, an addiction, once your used to it, it would be hard for you to change.
What players and cheaters don't understand is that Cheating is a serious thing. It will not only affect a person, mentally but It will also affect your health. Most of all your spirituality.
BTW people from here does have different issues, some about confidence, insecurities, and so on and so forth.
So depending on issues they have is what we focus on.
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reader, AuntyEm  +, writes (23 July 2013):
 All but a few Aunts here on DEAR CUPID are not professionally qualified to give legal relationship guidance, but we are all human beings...
When you see a human being in pain, you are going to tell them to step away!!...we are, as fellow humans, qualified to do that.
Advice given on DC is often topical,it's mainly a tool to get someone to stop and think about the situation they are in. Of course there are a million variable factors that affect any relationship but cheating causes pain and so it is good advice to tell someone who is suffering, to get away from the cheat!
Some cheats are forgiven, do go on to have other relationships and learn from their mistakes...others don't.
Is cheating a red flag?...Most definitely...why?...because it causes pain.
We don't tend to hear from the multitude of people happily living with a previous cheater, because they are happy and do not ask for help. We only hear from the ones who are hurt and in distress so what are we going to say?
'Put up with it dear'
'Maybe he/she won't do it again dear'
Of course, everyone has the capasity to change and forgive, but there is sometimes a definitive need for the 'voice of reason' and asking someone to step away from pain and hurt is primal and necessary.
That is my opinion.
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reader, YouWish +, writes (23 July 2013):
Is this a question, or is this a rant??
Sorry, call me judgmental, but I don't date cheaters. There may be the possible exception to that rule, but I think someone who is a cheater, and especially a SERIAL cheater is a red flag.
I *especially* would have nothing whatsoever to do with the following:
1. Someone married or committed actively hitting on me. That's disgusting in my opinion.
2. Someone who is married or committed to a FRIEND or loved one of mine, or had cheated *on* them and had since split. I wouldn't date them if they were the last person on earth.
3. I would consider if the cheating had been done in wild college years before maturity had finally stuck. However, someone who abandoned their kids (i.e. spends no time or financial support) to go cheat with someone else is a total deal breaker to me. Go be a dad first.
4. Someone who lies about their marital or commitment status. What the hell ELSE would they lie about? I wouldn't date someone who had a history of lying about being single, being a dad, because I know I'd be the one they'd do that to.
I know some people would disagree with me, and I do believe in second chances. But it would take a lot to make an exception, because it's like being friends with someone who likes to break confidences -- if they talk about people to you behind their back, you can believe they'll talk about you behind yours. Same with cheating. The vast majority develop a taste for it. There are exceptions, but as a rule, I do not date them.
I want someone who would never treat someone they profess to love in such a horrific way.
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 July 2013): Why do people say that? Because as history suggests that those who cheat are more likely to reoffend. The same way an addict will fall off the wagon at times. DC commentors can only base their opinions on probabilities and past experienceIt would be remiss for someone to recommend that you get involve with a cheater knowing that the behaviour is more likely to occur.Alternatively if the advice was to stay or go it would be foolish to recommend that they stay knowing the probability of reoffence is higher and the pain that the other person would go through to forgive.I am not saying that the cheat is a pariah and should never be trusted, but let someone else do the trusting. History doesnt always repeat but it often rhymes.
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reader, pinktopaz +, writes (23 July 2013):
I don't always believe the whole "once a cheater always a cheater" deal." Why? Because I've been a cheater before and I haven't cheated in any other relationships after that. While, I do think there are some people that are serial cheaters and will always cheat just because they can, there are some people that are in certain circumstances that do end up cheating but wouldn't normally do so.
Some may say that there's no "excuse" for it and that you should just end the relationship and move on out of "respect." This may be true depending on the relationship, but sometimes when someone feels trapped in a very unhealthy/unhappy relationship, they're not really sure what to do. In my case, I knew I needed out, but because I was used to his emotional/verbal abuse and basically convincing me that I won't find anyone better, I was afraid to leave him first in case he was right. Turns out he was wrong and I never felt bad about cheating on him or looked back. It was a learning experience and now I know if I somehow wind up with someone like him again, it's best to just get out. Not necessarily out of respect for them (for me the respect was gone by then anyway), but because there's no point in wasting my time; they're not going to change.
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 July 2013): Honestly, I've never been one to believe "Once a cheater always a cheater". That's like saying once you make a mistake you can never be forgiven of it. I do however believe that if you have cheated in the past, and honestly do not plan on doing it again. You may have to work a little harder at gaining peoples trust, ( and if you are sincere about not cheating again, it shouldn't be a problem). Say some of your friend has invited someone into their homes, and each person says that the person they have invited into their home has stolen something from them. And now that person wants to stay with you and claims that they have changed and its just apart of their past. Well, of course you are naturally going to be skeptical although it was a part of their past, and most times you can tell when someone is genuine about it. Same with cheating. Once something has been done to break that trust, its always harder to believe what one says. Everyone is worthy of love, but you have to find the right one who is willing to overlook your past. I don't think that trust should just be given out regardless of the person, that's the quickest way to heartbreak. Trust should be something that's earned.We've all made mistakes, no one is perfect, the past should stay in the past. I believe that cheaters can one day be faithful, drug addicts could one day stay clean, and that abusers can find other ways to deal with their emotions but Not to the point where I set myself up for disappointment. YOu can never be 100% about those things, But I do believe that if someone is trying and changing who are you to characterize them as the same person. At the end of the day people will feel they way they want, its all about perspective and experience, but no one has the right to judge another, except for the big man upstairs!
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