A
female
age
36-40,
*orn-In-Two
writes:I've had a boyfriend for almost 6 years now. He's a great guy, and I'm in love with him, and can see our future life together as being a beautiful thing. He's had a tough life though. His dad died when he was 16, and his grandfather only a few months later. He never went to therapy, and it has affected his entire life. He still doesn't drive at 27 years old. This actually doesn't bother me a huge amount, but it embarrasses him, but he cannot afford to get into a car accident right now, which is a fear of his. I can understand that fear, because his family is really in a dire financial situation. He is not ambitious, partly because his father was so much so that he never really got to spend time with family. I find myself thinking I'm lucky to have a man who is more concerned with staying with me than working all the time. He has not gone to college, nor does he really want to. This is also ok with me as college isn't for everyone. He is ridiculously smart, but works at Publix. Has for almost 7 years now. He is extremely set in his routines, as all of the changes in his life have been awful. Getting him to agree to anything is harder than pulling teeth from him. I have tried to be patient, because I love him so much, and because I can never imagine how much those deaths have affected him. My family has always raised me to be ambitious, deadlines, measurable results quickly, etc. My sisters love him, but think he needs to step up and do more things for me. My parents don't think he is worthy of me. I love him. But his routine is so intense and strict that he resists when I ask him to come over once a week to have dinner with me. I live 3 minutes away. He has things to do. What would he do over at my place? He'd be bored, according to him. Because his things aren't all over there yet. I love him. What should I do? My patience is running out. I have a crossroads coming up. Do I begin giving him an ultimatum when I know that might backfire on me? Do I ignore my family and stay with him and try to keep myself at his pace? I'm so lost...
View related questions:
ambition Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, Torn-In-Two +, writes (18 April 2011):
Torn-In-Two is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHi folks, I haven't been on here in quite some time. Things are looking up for me and my boyfriend. He is coming over more, and he has spent the night. We had a serious talk (not that easy) where I basically said that he wasn't giving me what I needed, and if that was the case, I implied that I couldn't be in a relationship with him. He was upset, but you know what? I said I refused to leave his house until something was resolved, or it would have been like any other conversation we'd had. I almost broke up with him, but he told me that he would sleep over my place the next evening, and he followed through! Since then, he's been over to dinner several times, and I am much happier. He is also making progress with his friends - and in response to his more outgoing nature, he's being invited more places and doing things more spontaneously. He and I are doing better. We still have work to do, but I am hopeful. :) Do you think these are good signs too?
A
female
reader, pixiegirls +, writes (3 December 2010):
 Trying to decide whether you should give him more time, yet knowing the end result will be the same is a very difficult, but honest thing to say out loud. There just isn’t a set answer to give you. Trying to come to a definite action will be very tough, and you will feel guilty, but when you have made a choice, you will feel and know what the right one is. It may help to think instead of the amount of guilt you will feel to leave and move on, you may be giving him a special gift….one where he “must” face unpleasant things, but must also cope with it. You will decide on the best way to handle things….in your own time.
I don’t think I would ask your boyfriend to talk to your parents at this time. It would almost be setting him up to fail. As “lowly” as he thinks they feel about him, he does not have the confidence or experience to defend himself and might become too afraid to even walk away. It is not the best situation to have him face. It is extremely difficult for even very confident people to face a woman’s parents…and 99% of the time, parents will want to instill some level of fear in the guy…..sort of put them in their place and know that their point came across very clear, lol. Confrontations can be traumatic as it is, but something most of us have to face and learn from at some moment in our lives. That kind of interaction might be way too much for your boyfriend to deal with.
Try to think through things yourself first before you start worrying about the fall out. Either way, it will be a difficult choice to make, and even harder to go through with. Realizing that to go is the best way for you also does not mean that you care any less for him. You would be making a big sacrifice for his benefit.
...............................
A
female
reader, Torn-In-Two +, writes (3 December 2010):
Torn-In-Two is verified as being by the original poster of the questionPart of me wants to give him more time. The other part thinks no matter how much time I give him, it will not happen. Not until he is 40 or older. We kind of consider ourselves basically married already, just because of the duration of the relationship and what we've gone through. How can I leave him and actually move on, if I'm consumed by guilt at the very thought?
You have a point actually. He does not really fight. Sure, he does talk with me about how much he loves me and wants to be with me. He does not actually defend our relationship himself to my parents, though in his defense they are extremely aggressive and they are hard to disagree with. I never really thought about that, surprisingly enough. I was always the only one defending us. He never did, not once to them. He knows they think little of him and thus does not want any sort of contact with them.
Should I ask him to talk to them, to defend our relationship to my folks? What should I think or do if he says no? I can't picture him agreeing. He doesn't think they will ever approve of him, even if he does get his license, get higher education, etc. He thinks they would just find something else wrong with him to complain about. Again, the helpless feeling with him.
...............................
A
female
reader, pixiegirls +, writes (3 December 2010):
I mention learning disabilities or difficulties he may have had in junior or senior high school since LD’s are fairly common in people who have a chronic type of depression, or other disorder that can create a hiccup in their learning process. Difficulties can be very mild to very severe. He may also have severe anxiety relating to driving, even getting panic attacks. Drug and/or alcohol use are more likely to happen, not because of a need or want to get high, but to self-medicate and attempt to control the never ending “noise” in their brain, to numb any unfamiliar emotions or feelings that may be emerging, and simply, it might make them feel better. Typically, someone may only start to consider “self-medicating” when they get to a point where they are just unable to cope. The additional information you posted follows more symptoms related to Dependent Personality Disorder rather than Agoraphobia. There are a few similar symptoms between the two, but DPD also will include fear of abandonment in relationships or one that will end. The most common symptoms of DPD are:• has difficulty making everyday decisions without an excessive amount of advice and reassurance from others.• needs others to assume responsibility for most major areas of his or her life• has difficulty expressing disagreement with others because of fear of loss of support or approval. Note: Do not include realistic fears of retribution.• has difficulty initiating projects or doing things on his or her own (because of a lack of self-confidence in judgment or abilities rather than a lack of motivation or energy).• goes to excessive lengths to obtain nurturance and support from others, to the point of volunteering to do things that are unpleasant.• feels uncomfortable or helpless when alone because of exaggerated fears of being unable to care for himself or herself.• urgently seeks another relationship as a source of care and support when a close relationship ends.• is unrealistically preoccupied with fears of being left to take care of himself or herself.Are any of these behavior patterns apparent in your boyfriend?I think whenever we care about someone and become truly concerned about how they will progress through life. The guilt though is your own. You either let the guilt eat at you and prevent you from making healthy decisions, or accept the fact that you have a limited ability to help him get through a lot of issues. What will best help him is to be evaluated and diagnosed by a professional. They may be able to prescribe medication to reduce some of the symptoms, but more importantly, counseling will help him learn how to cope with loss, his fears, and his self-esteem issues, therefore avoiding any major damage to his thought processes you are fearful of.Your parents are understandably concerned that you may get further into a situation that is not healthy, but also they would hate to see you put forth so much effort into helping your boyfriend, but would hate to see your pain and frustration when things don’t work out as you might have hoped. I do believe many things, people, and relationships are definitely worth fighting for and worth keeping. I also believe in having an even playing field. It isn’t fighting for something when you are already 30 points behind. There will always be something that we can never conquer. Disability, cancer, and accidents…..all things we are not in control of nor can ever repair. I would try to take some time by yourself to really think about the possibilities…..both a failing situation and a successful one. Try to think of all the tiny details that you may have to endure as well. But be honest with yourself. Can you handle a stressful situation and consistent failures and refusal to even try? Your heart already knows the answer….your head may just not want to acknowledge it.
...............................
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (3 December 2010):
 I think Jmtmj raises an excellent point. I'd also like to point out your argument "Isn't something worth fighting for, worth keeping?" really applies more to him than to you. He's not really fighting, now, is he. He's left that to you to do.
Whatever is going on with him, it's not going to resolve by itself. Unless you are prepared for a lifetime of things going exactly as they are now, with him stuck inside in dead-end thinking, it's time to recognize the limits of your ability to "help."
He has to show up at the fight too. Doesn't sound to me as though he can manage it. Sorry.
...............................
A
male
reader, Jmtmj  +, writes (3 December 2010):
 Its all very well speculating about OCD, depression... even BPD (curious as to why that was suggested), but he needs to ACTUALLY be diagnosed by a professional. He hasn't actually been "diagnosed" with OCD has he?
Book an appointment with a doctor, pick him up an hour early, no excuses- drag him there if you have to. If he refuses then that may be ultimatum time, you want to help him, he should want to help himself and that sounds like a totally reasonable request.
...............................
A
female
reader, Torn-In-Two +, writes (3 December 2010):
Torn-In-Two is verified as being by the original poster of the questionPixigirls,He is actually incredibly smart, and has never had any learning difficulties. He can read and write easily, just not fast. He has told me he has difficulty reading signs because the car is simply moving too fast. He does have his permit, but they did not into traffic, just around the parking lot, so the issue wasn't addressed then. He is paranoid that I will leave him, and is always making me promise to stay. My folks are trying to get me to move back into their house in another state 9 hrs away. He's so worried that I will leave. He himself does not think he really is worthy of me, but considers himself only half a person without me. He has never had a drinking/smoking/drug problem, and indeed only rarely drinks, if ever, and never the latter 2. His mother and step-dad think he might be slightly agoraphobic, and that would make sense to me. He resists going to new places, or even taking walks because other people might look at him. He doesn't like being far from his house, and according to them, he has never even really been out of the city. How can I avoid feeling guilty here? I would feel guilty endlessly if I left him, because I can't fathom the damage it would do to him. Few people would have the patience to work with him, and I used to think I did...now I'm not sure. I have been with him so long, and been through so much, that I don't know anything. Isn't something worth fighting for, worth keeping?
...............................
A
female
reader, pixiegirls +, writes (3 December 2010):
There ya go! The OCD, depression, and whatever else is probably going on not only explains most of his habits, behavior, and other areas he may be lacking in, but also explains his emotional state. The driving issue can sometimes be related to OCD. Instead of assuming, has he specifically told you he he has difficulty with vision making it impossible him to drive? Or could his disorder, medications, and fear make him ineligible to even apply for a Learner's Permit? If it truly was a problem in "reading" road signs....stop and think. Does he have the ability to read and write in an advanced level? Has he always had problems in school learning and retaining information?
Now that you are aware of his OCD, depression, and possibly one or more other issues, you can never guess or assume anything anymore. Both OCD and depression can cause a multitude of irrational thoughts, unpredicted behavior, and random outburts. While your perception of the problems may be realistic from identifying some disorders, his perceptions remain the same. By the same I mean, the words and emotions you may use in trying to reach him, are only defined by what his head is telling him....and may be off track. OCD alone can cause a high level of paranoia. So though what you say may be appropriate, his reception of the words may mean something completely different. Expressing how much you care or try to explain your feelings really is just telling it back to yourself. Without ever feeling empathy, he has no clue what you are really tring to say. When he is unsure of what you are trying to say, he will basically use whatever phrase from his memory he can find to fill in he blanks. For a number of reasons, a lot of these phrases or definitions will be negative, and about him. None of this is coming from you, but a habit he has been using for a very long time.
You need to actually take some time, and real;ize, that there is nothing "you" can really ever do to "fix" things for him. He is being very honest with you in stating he really does not have the "ability" as you do to even attempt change. It would really be beneficial for you to read and/or reasearch the disorders that are stopping him from "changing" or feeing normal. You just don't have the ability to fix or change a brain abnormality. Physicians do not even have that gift.
I will tell you with all honesty, I know your intentions are sincere, but....and I'm sorry this will be a painful but...there is nothing, in any way, shape, or form that you can ever do to change this man, his conditions, nor his thought processes. It is something that is not within your reach to understand, let alone try to fix. You will never be able to "push" him to any type of progression. The disorder will always be a dysfunction, and add the depression and possibly BPD, you will only be trying to argue with yourself. He may be able to overcome the intensity of the disorders with proper therapy and medication, but no therapist or psychiatrist can ever guarantee a specific level of adapting or to ever make them feel normal.
The most important thing you can do, is for yourself. Do not blame progress failure on you, or anything you may have tried. Do not try to encourage him to drive, seek therapy (unless he is already seeing someone which he should be), explain why you may be angry, or basically try to justify why it is abnormal for him to make any type of effort. This will get you nowhere. He literally does not have the ability to understand what you are trying to express. It's unfortunate, but true. Know too, that these disorders will also prevent the ability to want, need, or feel any type of physical intimacy. In this area, many people will never be able to appreciate or ever really know.
Try not to take any of this as a rejection, refusal, or a type of deceit. The negative qualities are also something that your boyfriend may just not have the ability to do.
Since he is 27, chances are that he has already had some problems with alcohol in trying to self medicate. No wonder his mother is fearful of a drinking issue starting.
I think you are aware already that the problems in your relationship are ones that you will never be able to work through. This is absolutely no fault of yours, or his... It just happens to be a condition(s) that is easily helped, and far out of the realm that continuing to stay will make any difference. The outcome if you left would probably fall back into a familiar path.....one which he becomes reliant again on his mother. She does have the longest history in caring for him and trying to protect him.
...............................
A
female
reader, Torn-In-Two +, writes (3 December 2010):
Torn-In-Two is verified as being by the original poster of the questionTisha,
You hit the nail on the head. I think he needs to see someone, but he doesn't. Yet, I tell him that his routines are deeply hurting me. It doesn't seem to be enough to make him change. He wants to, but not THAT much, or he can't overcome it. I'm pretty sure I need to see someone too about certain issues, some caused by him, others simply inflamed by him. I am a stress-eater, so my health is becoming in jeopardy because I'm getting more and more stressed. He doesn't eat healthy by any means either, and he refuses to change his eating habits, despite my telling him that it is the only way I will be able to stick to a diet. He has agreed to exercise with me, but only after I really got after him about it. Shouldn't he want to do it for me, so I don't have a heart attack or something?
I know he loves me, and I'm his world, but he has trouble showing it the way I need it to be shown. In one of your links, it said catering to those OCD urges can be harmful as well. This is one reason that my increased pleas for his more frequent visits over to my apartment have met with resistance - I've never asked quite so much before. He says that it is actually making him not want to come over. My reaction is, he's not coming over anyway, and I have to tell you how I feel.
He reacts badly anytime I have a serious talk with him about what I want and need from him. He actually is scared, or acts like it anyway. He unintentionally makes me feel guilty about talking about it to him. He gets very defensive and upset. Part of that is he has a lot of trouble conveying what he is thinking to speech - his brain moves faster than his mouth, and it frustrates him. He absolutely hates reflecting upon himself, perhaps its because he knows he won't like what he sees. He seems to accept that there isn't anything he can do about the OCD, so why try?
...............................
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (2 December 2010):
Your guy has OCD and it has hit the point where it interferes with his daily life. He's stuck in depression and he's stuck in his rituals. Unless he acknowledges he has a problem and takes steps to deal with it, he's not going to get better. This is not something he's capable of managing by himself, from what you've written.
We all have losses in life, most of us experience them when we are older, it is an inevitable fact of life that people die. It's not nice, it's not pleasant, but that is the fact. Living means that we will suffer setbacks and pain and hurt. We also get to experience love and joy and happiness if we let them in.
Your guy needs to get to a professional and tackle the OCD and depression PRONTO. He's subsisting, he's not thriving. You will not live a vibrant and rich life if you are stuck in the midst of his rituals. Those rituals that rule his life are a flawed way to deal with anxiety. He basically has a chemical imbalance, I think, and needs to see a highly qualified medical mental health professional, like, tomorrow.
There are therapies and medications for people in his situation. BUT, the big BUT, is that he has to go get the help. He HAS to help himself. The problem of course is that the anxiety and depression is keeping him from helping himself.
I think your giving, and sticking to, an ultimatum isn't such a terrible idea. It may be the thing that gets him out of his 'safe' haven (which is more of a prison) and out into help. If he threatens or tries to harm himself, it may be the catalyst to get him seen by qualified professionals, awful as though that might seem at the moment. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I would encourage you to decide what works for YOU, and if he isn't part of that picture, sadly, then he's not the guy for you. I'm sorry for his situation, but I don't see what purpose it serves to have you stuck in the same limbo his OCD has trapped him in. That just means there are two victims, not just one. What's the point in that? You can go on and live your life, and maybe that will be enough to get him to help.
I have some links for you to read and perhaps you can find a local professional for him to see.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/anxiety-disorders/obsessive-compulsive-disorder.shtml
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/anxiety-disorders/how-to-get-help-for-anxiety-disorders.shtml
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/when-unwanted-thoughts-take-over-obsessive-compulsive-disorder/index.shtml
http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/tc/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd-topic-overview
http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/how-family-members-can-cope-with-ocd
Good luck to you and remember that you are trying to help him. But you do have to remember that in an emergency, the oxygen mask goes on YOU first, before you can help anyone else, okay? It's okay to take care of YOURSELF too.
Good luck.
...............................
A
female
reader, Torn-In-Two +, writes (2 December 2010):
Torn-In-Two is verified as being by the original poster of the questionPixigirls,
Thanks for your reply. He does have OCD, and acknowledges it. With the driving, he does have vision issues that might mean he can't read road signs while driving - something that may or may not prevent his being able to drive.
You had good insight, as he is also depressed. He has been feeling pressure from me to do more, and translating that (I think, from what he tells me) into my telling him what a horrible failure he is. I tell him it is because I care so deeply about him, and don't want to lose him, and I know that he wants to change. Trouble is, he doesn't want to go through the hardships and uncomfortableness that changing will entail.
Whenever I'm nervous, embarrassed, or afraid of doing something, it can paralyze me. However, after a time, I turn that fear into determination to get whatever it is that is bugging me out of the way. He tells me he does not have this ability. How can I help him do that? If he could do this, I think it would help a great deal.
I just don't know how to push him to progress the right way. We are starting to fight more about it. I'm nagging him to drive, and come over for just a lunch or dinner. He says he's too busy decorating. I don't know if he can understand my point of view because he has been such a loner for so long that he doesn't often actually NEED me physically with him, so long as he can talk to me. He told me that last night.
I just don't know what to do. I'm scared of what he will do if I have to leave him. He's so dependent on his routine, which I have become a big part of. His mom has told me that she's afraid he'll start drinking and perhaps do something unthinkable. I hate to think of that as the only reason why I'm staying though, since I am very aware that that is really unhealthy. I don't know if that's part of the reason or not...I just don't know.
...............................
A
female
reader, pixiegirls +, writes (2 December 2010):
Your post shows that you undoubtedly have a great sense of love and concern for your boyfriend, and extremely supportive. I do think though, that you may not perceive what the real reasons behind the issues may be. Most of the time we don’t want to really see because we become afraid of what the outcome will be.
Just re-think some of the things you have already mentioned, but try to take a step back and see it from an outside view. The reasoning’s just don’t seem to quite fit the issues.
At 16, to have your father pass away, and a grandfather shortly after would undoubtedly leave an impact upon a child. However, the majority of teenagers will be able to heal and keep fond memories of both their father and grandfather. Therapy is not a common need for people when a family member has died. Could there be another reason why he had a tough life other than deaths in his family? I would think that not driving at 27 as well, has a much deeper issue behind it other than being afraid of getting into an accident. Most boys at 16 at least, want to learn how to drive. Is there a possibility that he cannot drive for another reason? His lack of ambition is probably not from his father working too much when he was alive (although I’m sure that his father’s absence affected him); but that he may be in a perpetual depressive mode and not feel he would be able to meet higher expectations. The college education, most likely his high school education, the job he insists staying at, might not be an easy accomplishment for him. His set routines, that he has such difficulty in adjusting, along with him probably being adamant about changing, sound like symptoms of OCD, and possibly one or another disorder. People with such disorders are unable to be spontaneous, nor are ever comfortable unless they are following “their own” set routine. They become lost without their set patterns. They often have trouble in relationships as well when their obsessions or thought disorder take priority over the common needs in a relationship. This will make the relationship very hard on you, because you will not be able to just “fix” any issue, but have to work with and around the extenuating circumstances. Just consider the above scenarios and see if they make more sense to you than what you have been assuming the issues were. Researching some of the information may also be helpful to you just to become more aware of why he is the way he is.
It is impossible to say whether or not he might be able to progress and accomplish more as well as gain self-esteem, depending on if he does have a physiological process going on. If it turns out there is more behind his behavior and set routines, you can either try to learn to adapt to the situation, or decide that you might not be able to meet the demands it might take to stay. It will never be easy, and cause a lot of frustration. But try and figure/find out what may really be causing this stress before you make any decisions. Good Luck!
...............................
A
male
reader, Jmtmj +, writes (2 December 2010):
"The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result."
Whilst he may be content to do the same things over and over, you're at breaking point and seem to be staying with him largely because of the potential that you see in him.
He's not going to change unless he changes for himself so I doubt he'll take your ultimatum all that seriously. But by the sounds of things, that may be your only hope here... I hate ultimatums, but you've done all you can, have borne the weight of two people in this relationship for way too long.
All I can say is make your ultimatum VERY specific, deadline specific- (down to the date, day, hour) and ACHIEVABLE for him.
Good-luck
...............................
|
