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Dear Cupid > Forums > Site Feedback > Ch-ch-changes why are we so scared of them?

Ch-ch-changes why are we so scared of them?

, posted over a year ago

I personally would like to see this site lifted out of the gutter of yet another chatty desperately-seeking-mates forum and into the realms of being the google of relationships.

Seems to me that would make this site less Stupid and more Cupid?

Suggest:

1-Compulsary registration for everyone. All users are "anon" whether they choose to register or not.

2-Bin the current ratings system. All that proves is how many pals we can invent. The current No1 Top Aunty is a couple who very rarely post on here. Do-little-get-rewarded. Wrong message to the more hard-working regulars.

3-Reward results. If an auntie gets a result ie; actually solves a problem, then we can rate them, but openly. Let's see who who is rating who and why.

Posted on 27 May 2008 @ 21:15 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

That seems to make sense waz, i like the idea of rating openly, that's kind of what the rated by question asker bit is right?

But how come all users would be anonymous whether they are registered or not?

Posted on 27 May 2008 @ 21:24 (London time) - permalink
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Tisha-1, posted over a year ago

Waz, you raise some very valid points. I've often thought there should be a 'degree of difficulty' assigned to the questions. Some simple, often asked questions, like 'am I pregnant?' where the only correct answer is 'take a test and see your doctor' should be considered ' easy', the more complicated questions deserve a higher rating for a sensible, well-thought out answer.

More thoughts later. The dryer buzzed.

Posted on 27 May 2008 @ 21:39 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

You and I are "anon" Hope. We can only be ID'd by our user names yeah? We don't know who each other really are unless we are offline buddies.

Then there is the other "anon" y'know the type, the ones who hide behind even their regular username because they lack any courage of their convictions. It is the removal of them I think that will bring in a refreshing wind of crebility to the site I reckon.

Those who fear such changes have the most to fear right? :^)

Posted on 27 May 2008 @ 21:46 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

Ohhhh i see what you mean now!! Sorry bit slow there hey :P

Hehe yep I guess that they do! I think that that's quite a good idea actually :) xx

Posted on 27 May 2008 @ 22:24 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

Yeah I also agree with Tisha I think question difficulty is quite a good idea! xx

Posted on 27 May 2008 @ 22:25 (London time) - permalink
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Susan Strict, posted over a year ago

No. I don't think I agree with most of that.

I think that compulsory registration would lose a lot of the question askers who most need help, and in particular those who are the most nervous and most vulnerable. It doesn't matter to them that their information isn't made "public". It only matters to them that they have to give it - and many of them wouldn't bother. True, it would cut down the trolls and the time-wasters, but at what cost? In any case, it's really not a major problem for the determined disruptors to register with one e-mail address after another. In fact, it makes it more of a challenge for them - a better "game" for those with that sort of warped mind. As you know, there is already a system in place that helps the site administrator identify and warn of some serial offenders.

Similarly, the Aunties need names and need to be known. Firstly it makes it more personal, and secondly it helps people to focus in onto the replies that they know will be on their own wavelength. The help, the genuine help, that this site gives to so many people is not just to the asker of a particular question. It's to dozens or even hundreds of others who also read the question. As the system stands, they can focus on the replies from particular Aunties they know and like, and who they feel are sympathetic in terms of ideas, sentiments and emotions as they are themselves.

Open ratings? Maybe. I'm not convinced it will make much difference. In fact, it may make it worse. Yes I know that some of us probably have one or more "stalkers" who consistently rate everything we write as "poor" and drive down the ratings regardless of whether we write something useful or not, but does it really matter? One "thank you" from a question asker is more than enough reward for many hours of considering and writing. More than enough for me anyway, even if I do sometimes moan and gripe when it's obvious that someone is playing silly beggars with my ratings or anyone else's.

Also, and on a slightly different track, the last thing this site needs is to have a load of Aunties who are only writing what the question asker wants to hear or what the rest of the "voting public" wants to hear - and that's what you risk if you make public the who and the why of the ratings. The whole point is that we can reply with our honest opinion - and on the rare occasions that we know it's going to be highly controversial, we do have the option of replying anonymously, which I admit I have done on five or six occasions so far (as if I wasn't controversial enough!!).

I don't have a problem with change. I only question if it is really needed, and what that change should be. I can't see any real benefit in what you are suggesting (sorry, Waz), but I can see a number of potential pitfalls.

And, sorry to say, I don't have any more constructive suggestions. I'll think about it, and see if I can come up with something. I think it's most definitely a subject that needs discussion and further ideas.

Posted on 27 May 2008 @ 22:37 (London time) - permalink
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Tisha-1, posted over a year ago

Part of the evolution of an auntie is finding his/her voice and having the courage to express the opinion, whether it is 'popular' or not. One of the things most of us experience as aunties here is the initial boost of confidence when the first tentative, at least for me, answers are met with high marks. Then there is the inevitable fall from those high marks, when someone finds an auntie somehow offensive and diligently tries to drive the numbers down.

My biggest fear with this is that some very promising advice offerers get disillusioned and leave the site at this point. And they shouldn't, because they have some very good points and offer some much needed perspective on the more difficult answers. Those of us with thick skins or a genuine interest in helping despite the slump in rating stick around; those with thinner skins might lose interest because their answers seem to garner no 'reward.' How do we keep those aunties here? How do we help them develop their voice?

I think that the question askers should be able to be completely anonymous, the answerers maybe should be registered, at least as long as there is a fair rating system in play. And this is the sticky question really...

Maybe rating an auntie should be a numbers game too, only one rating per user per day. This would discourage negative feedback without foundation, and also prevent number boosting without foundation. You'd have to pick and choose which auntie gets your vote. Not a perfect solution, I think, reading that last paragraph back.

I think that there should be a system in place to protect the 'newbies' from the trolls and time-wasters, to give them a chance to develop their voice and give them positive feedback without worrying about the numbers. Maybe the initial rating of aunties needs to happen after more answers? I don't know, I'm just brainstorming here.

This site is successful because of the diverse points of view and the willingness of volunteer auntes to take the time to think about a question and respond with their ideas/experiences/what have you....

Dang! Dryer buzz again!

Posted on 27 May 2008 @ 23:9 (London time) - permalink
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Collaroy, posted over a year ago

Hi,

On the surface I can see what you are saying Waz. The thing that irks me is there are way too many fake posts for my liking, and far too many young girls lusting for their teachers and getting the worst advice from other young girls writing in anonymously. These are the things that concern me the most.

However, in my time here I have had several people pm me with desperate problems they need help with. Most of them posted their original question anonymously, I would hate to think that the people who need our help the most are discourgaged from writing in because they don't have the courage to register. They are the most vulnerable and god knows what's going through their heads so I just hate to think that we would scare them away.

So sorry mate, while I agree with you in some respects I think we will lose far too much and gain little. Sure we can ditch these dumb fake posts and the like, but you are going to get people taking the piss no matter how much you try and weed them out.

Sorry mate, you do make very valid points, and there is definitely some merit in your suggestion to not allow answers from anonymous posters , but I just don't think the alternatives you suggested would make a lot of difference.

cheers.

Posted on 28 May 2008 @ 0:39 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

I have to agree whole heartedly with Waz on all points. I have had some people also who have come across as having a desperatly serious question and some nitwit have given a very flippant answer. And i have say that some people have used it to gain a whole army of friends and it has spoilt it for me. I love the way certain people have backed me when things have gone wrong for me, but that should be kept to private pm and not a whole section of the 'Lounge' taken up with, something that is maybe close to just that person. I was very very grateful for the support and love that i got when i went through my bad times, but i have to say that looking back, i do see just what Waz means, and that should certainly be kept from our more serious aunting duties. And i do see my role on this site as a Aunty duty, because i WANT to help people, and i am passionate about it.

Well done Waz for bringing this matter up, i certainly think you have it spot on.

take carexx

Posted on 28 May 2008 @ 8:22 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

AND!!!!!

Dont get me on the subject of the RATINGS!!!!! I have been on about them for quite some time now! I get fantastic mail from people who i have given honest and truthful answers to and they have thanked me for this, yet, i have never been about 32 on this poxy ratings pole! I have mailed Andrew about this to no avail! YET!!! People have appeared right at the very top who i havent heard of, never seen answer, so what the hell is going on!! Yes, you got me on one! The whole thing should be scrapped and either left out altogether or a new system devised but this is ridiculous. Who votes on them? Stalin, Hitler, Shakespeare, Tolstoy???????

Have a nice day, take care xx (and dont take sweets from strangers!)

Posted on 28 May 2008 @ 8:42 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

Good responses so far.

Waterloo obviously I will agree with you about the ratings gig. I often wonder if it is the Curse Of Waz whereas the aunties who get a Wiz five-star vote subsequently see their ratings drop downwards faster than a prostitute's knickers when offered double money.

That's always the case here for those who believe that the content and honesty of the advice given is far more significant than who our mates are.

Waz

Posted on 28 May 2008 @ 13:34 (London time) - permalink
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LazyGuy, posted over a year ago

Forcing registration won't stop trolls but will stop some people from posting genuine questions. Bad idea. I rather have 10 fake questions then miss 1 real one. The same goes for the moderation system, if one year ago a woman had posted that she was being held captive for years in a dungeon by her father and forced to bear his children would the mods have let it through? Yet it happened. Something no writer would have dared to pen down turned out to be very real indeed.

As for the rating system. Good luck. The eurovision song-festival has a long history of certain countries voting for each other for historical reasons. Accept that any rating system of answers on a website is going to have its abuses. Poster who dislike the answer they get who mod down every other post by the user. People who vote for each other no matter what because they are friends. People who work around the login system to vote for themselves. The abuses are endless and common to all websites with a degree of anonymity (for instance, nobody here knowns for certain that I am now WizardOfWaz or that the real WoW did not post all the replies above)

I fear that if you put to much emphasis on the rating system you get what is known on another site as a "karma-troll". On slashdot (geek site) they use a moderation system that gives karma points if you are modded up and takes them away if you are modded down.

It is trivially easy to get modded up, just post what the hive-mind wants to hear and see your rating soar up.

I know this because years ago my task was to work on a rating system. We did tests with existing sites, like slashdot but also social sites. For one we used a feminist site. We posted several replies, some pro-female stories that were complete crap that got modded up but also some real anti-female sounding stuff that was actually pro-female. The moderation showed exactly what we feared, that any system in which their was no vetting of the moderators to see if they did their work correctly was not to be trusted.

The idea behind the test was to create a system by which users of mobile phones could rate user reviews of their phones. The idea was that since the phone company knows what phone a user has they could then use this to make sure the ratings of reviews were sound. WRONG.

Users would constantly moderate ACCURATE but unflattering reviews down. After all agreeing with a negative review of your phone means admitting you bought the wrong one. This is a no-no. To translate it to this site. If you are with a partner everyone tells you is bad, it means admitting you picked someone who was wrong.

The is also known as the Apple effect. Buyers of for instance iPods MUST defend their purchase, explain that their iPod with limited codec support, no radio, limited controls etc etc is worth the far higher price compared to more feature rich products.

To make a long story short, if you want accurate ratings you need to KNOW who is voting and from what background. This is true for any survey. I asked 100 people today whether they thought bus lanes were a good idea, 99 agreed. Hidden detail? I asked at a bus-station.

As for rewards, it would be trivial to post create an account, post an answer on another account and then mod that answer up.

Take your rewards from the replies of those seeking help. Sure a heart behind your name is nice but I am bit reminded of a rating in an online game that went up if you didn't die in combat. It could also mean that you ran a way a lot. Heroes don't have stars...

If you are never modded down by an angry poster, then it could also mean you never say anything meaningful. I am sure someone posting nothing more then "strength, I pray for you, hugs" would get pretty high ratings but is that what this site is about?

Posted on 28 May 2008 @ 17:48 (London time) - permalink
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Tisha-1, posted over a year ago

Have a peek at this thread:

http://www.dearcupid.org/question/my-boyfriend-has-gotten-abusive.html

I know that I'm thrilled for the poster and happy for the aunts/uncles who helped her with their support.

And I'm grateful for the update by the OP. Makes it all seem worthwhile, doesn't it?

Posted on 28 May 2008 @ 20:19 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

OK, I have only read a few of the posts so far, but I have thought about this many times before and I will give my opinion.

To combine Waz's and Susan's thoughts, I think that all of the answers should be non-anon. The most obnoxious and insulting answers are mostly by anon people who don't have the courage to let people know who they are. After all, our screen names are faceless, unless we want to add our actual piccy. The questions could be anonymous because of possible embarrassment.

I think that the rating system should be abandoned. It just makes some or many people give answers that they know will gain them points instead of being honest. Being honest about your answers is much more important than some rating. I belong to many forums on many subjects (at least a dozen) and this is the only one that has a rating system. Abandoning the rating system would make many of the answers more honest and would prevent someone from giving someone else bad ratings just because they don't like them.

Posted on 29 May 2008 @ 2:13 (London time) - permalink
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pepper27, posted over a year ago

I agree with you mate, And dont do what I did and invite a friend to join as it turned out a bloody nightmare as you no, Hence the name change, but i kept my work there so it will still hopefully help others...I dont want to be on the raitings page again...I think I told you this hunny, Im happy being me but staying annon e mouse behind the curtains so to speak...I always speak the truth im just me what you see is what you get, I dont have to think its all babbled and the way I feel about a persons problem as I take it very seriously...yes this part is for fun and sharing so thats cool to escape as waz did say this is supposed to be the fun side...I was very gratefull to tisha for helping me out when I fell ill as my main concern was letting people down as Ive got alot of good friends...And with luck and love quite a few have found me again...So Ill always be gratfull for that tisha thankyou love, I would be happy to answer peoples questions and just be me who cares who's at the top middle or bottom everyone has something to offer to help...Thats all Im interested in Im just so thankfull that I sorted all that crap out and was able to continue and keep intouch with those close to me. As that is the most important thing...Helping people and frienships

Posted on 31 May 2008 @ 2:33 (London time) - permalink
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Aunt Audrey, posted over a year ago

Personally, having been on and off this site for some time now I couldn't give two hoots about the ratings. We all have a different take on situations, and I just give my honest opinion, I know that the questioner will not always like my opinion especially when they do not hear what they were hoping to. If they down rate me so what! I say what I feel whether they like it or not. If I help one person with a problem and get a pm to say so it makes my day...

I think it's great us aunts and uncles are not all anon, I know no one on a personal level, but there are many aunts and uncles on here that give such great advice and so much help and support to people that I sometimes wish I did indeed have such friends in life. I always read their posts whether I am answering the same question or not. xx

Posted on 31 May 2008 @ 18:56 (London time) - permalink
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DearCupid, posted over a year ago

Just noticed this thread going to read and respond tomorrow :-)

Andrew

Posted on 31 May 2008 @ 22:10 (London time) - permalink
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DearCupid, posted over a year ago

Just one quick note while I have 5 minutes. The concept of someone "rating down" (or up) an aunt is a myth. The ratings system doesn't count such votes and it is very, very hard to game.

For every 1 aunt who is displeased because their rating is "wrong", 10 will be happy. That doesn't mean I don't try and improve the ratings algorithm though. It is not a simple matter of counting all votes and averaging them; the system looks for patterns in the votes to remove people spamming/gaming and strips these out before doing further processing.

The current top user is an anomoly because they've contributed mostly to one question and one topic (age-gap relationships). People have responded well and voted highly, but I see that the top aunts list would maybe benefit from requring over x questions to be answered before you can appear. So I'll make that change.

The ratings system will stay though. It is important for the site to encourage good advice by recognising those people and to discourage bad advisors who get dejected and move on.

Waterloo - you make a point that you think you should be rated higher because you get good feedback from people. If you are getting good feedback I would take pleasure from that and not worry so much over your rating. Your votes are counted in exactly the same way as everyone else's.

Andrew

Posted on 1 June 2008 @ 9:42 (London time) - permalink
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DearCupid, posted over a year ago

One more note about anon answers. The site will always allow anonymous answers because often users have valuable input on sensitive topics but want to remain anonymous on these subjects.

I have however noticed that there is a problem with low quality anonymous answers being added to older questions on the site, often from people who arrive here from a search engine. I'm going to make a change so that older, "stale" (non-active) questions require users to be registered before answering to improve this situation.

Great little thread, keep the feedback coming :-)

PS. one other note, I've been super busy recently with other stuff and am aware I've been neglecting DearCupid and the aunts so I'm going to try and put more time in over the next few months! Thanks to everyone who contributes!

Andrew

Posted on 1 June 2008 @ 9:46 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

I don't think peoples personal concerns about their own ratings are all that important. It is more about the ratings usefulness to the users in general and people with problems in particular.

Any positive adjustment in the system would be welcomed so thanks for that. Also that's a good idea to request registration for some of the anons searching out the more older, and often more perverse, stuff from the archives.

Can see the point in allowing users to conceal their profiles when commenting on controversial subjects. But the anon answers system is still open to abuse. Perhaps that, and other concerns, can be adressed by having a closed Moderators Forum, whereas Mods can exchange information and work as a team rather than as individuals where currently one has no means of getting an update on what problems the others have recently been dealing with?

Thanks again for responding positively to our whining.

Waz

Posted on 1 June 2008 @ 12:45 (London time) - permalink
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DearCupid, posted over a year ago

Ok I've made the changes discussed

- Requires over a certain amount of questions answered before user appears in top aunts lists (used to just be a check on number of answers). Check the aunts list tomorrow after it has re-generated overnight.

- Questions older than a certain number of days that are also inactive (i.e. no new answers) require users to register before posting their answer. This should cut down on stupid one-line answers to older questions that reduce quality on the site.

Please keep the feedback coming PM me or post in forum anytime.

Thanks

Andrew

Posted on 1 June 2008 @ 18:14 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

Waz, the closed moderator forum is an excellent idea! That idea has been brought up in the past and I totally agree. The efforts and work of the mods is the backbone of keeping this site running, efficiently, so a private forum is needed, for the mods to interact, exchange ideas and opinions, as Waz has said. It will help us mods to form a more united front, in monitoring and policing some of the jumk that slips onto the site. This alone will keep the quality high. Good idea!

Posted on 1 June 2008 @ 19:11 (London time) - permalink
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DearCupid, posted over a year ago

I hear you on the private mods forum. This has been on my todo list for... ever!

I'll see if I can cobble something together for it next week.

Andrew

Posted on 1 June 2008 @ 19:20 (London time) - permalink
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, posted over a year ago

Great, Andrew! Thanks! :)

Posted on 1 June 2008 @ 19:24 (London time) - permalink
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Tisha-1, posted over a year ago

Thank you, Andrew, for making the changes. Sounds like good ways to improve the quality of the site.

I'd love to have the private moderator forum as well; so I appreciate you working on that one as well!

Posted on 1 June 2008 @ 23:33 (London time) - permalink
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