A
male
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:I've been married 10 years. On Thursday evenings my wife drops off our 7-year old son at football training and I drive from work to collect him.A few times there has been a last minute change and my wife has texted me but I don't think I've ever got the text as early as she intended (is it a standard feature that texts from wives to husbands are delayed !! ? why has this never been useful to me ?!!)I've frequently asked my wife not to rely on texting but to speak with me, or check for a reply from me, if there's a change of plan.Last night I left work a little late, and then I drove faster than I was really comfortable with to make up some time.I got to the football training about 5 minutes late. Only a few people were still there. My son wasn't (of course - my wife hadn't taken him). I looked for him and spoke to a coach who thought he had seen him (!!!) and so then I got worried. It's a new club, we don't yet really know anyone there, and no-one there lives in the village as us - I couldn't imagine who he would have gone off with. I got a bit panicky as I looked everywhere for him, then I called my wife to tell her, thinking the next call would be the police. And my wife told me she hadn't taken him to the training. She said it as though I should know... I asked my wife whether she had tried to call me, and she said no - she had texted. I got angry and shouted "I've been scared at not being able to find him, and now I'm just really angry you didn't call." And I rang off. That's all I said but I'd shouted so loud that my throat hurt all evening. Right on cue, the text that my wife had sent an hour earlier arrived just then!When I got home I went to see my wife, but she wouldn't talk to me because I had shouted at her on the phone. I talked anyway, standing in the doorway so she wouldn't just walk off. I told her that I had been really worried that our son had gone off with someone we didn't know - that although I knew he was almost certainly okay, I was still scared at the 'what if'. My wife repeated that she texted me. I got cross, didn't shout but my voice was louder and deeper than normal, as I reminded her of previous occasions when texting hadn't worked, and told her she really MUST phone in future.My wife got upset and angry, and then rushed at me in a rage with a hot iron held high. I pushed her one way and then the other, to keep her facing away from me at all times so she couldn't hit me with the iron. I was pretty scared, but in the end neither of us got hurt in the slightest.After putting the iron down my wife came up to me and stood very close and insulted me in a number of ways. As though trying to provoke a physical response? She didn't get one... I did point out that she seemed to want to provoke me, but why - so she could be the victim? And she stopped.My questions really centre on my behaviour: Whilst endeavouring to talk about this with my wife to try to resolve it, am I right to consider my behaviour reasonable. Or not ? I've been angry before, of course (not excessively !!), and my wife has always argued that angry is unproductive and wrong - as a man could scare a woman. (My wife of course is never angry - she will tell me she came at me with the iron because she was "upset" rather than 'angry'...) I stood my ground last night too.... but what if she had managed to provoke me (perish the thought, I'm not a violent person, and in the cold light of day I can say I will never ever hit a woman and probably never hit a man either - but she was saying the things she knows hurts, and it would only take a tiny moment of madness.... should I have walked away rather than stand there nose to nose?)I need to know what some other people think, but I'm not sure I want to tell any friends all of this, so if you can help me understand the grey areas, please do :-)
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (1 February 2010): From the OP:
Thank you everyone
We had the conversation. It went surprisingly well, and I think that's because the replies on here had helped me realise how much I had to apologise for and had humbled me sufficiently to be more open and forgiving than I would otherwise have been.
We are going to go back to counselling. Been there before, after a run of bad luck brought out the worst in us a few years ago. (I think though we learned to be kind, but didn't quite get back in love as much as before - some residual hurt and fear?) It's time to go back. A friend has agreed to babysit and also reminded me that last year she babysat so I could take my wife out for a surprise on our wedding anniversary, so we've booked that up again as well. With friends like that, who needs diaries ;-)
I suggested we go to anger management class as well (me and my wife, not the friend !), but although we both said we would do this, I'm not sure either of us will .... it's a hard thing to admit you need. Does anyone have any tips for courses (we're in the UK) or books or DVDs about anger management?
Miamine, thanks for coming back to this, that made me feel pretty special - we're friends now :-) !
Now my wife will stay hurt, angry, upset for some days or maybe weeks. I bounce back very quickly, I feel I can conquer the world the day after we've talked things through! I have to stay patient and kind, and not take offence, for long enough, and allow my wife to get there too.... not something I'm naturally good at. I'm a bit impatient.... but that must be for another thread .... !
Thank you everyone
xx
A
reader, anonymous, writes (1 February 2010): You may have problems with your wife that need to be addressed.But more than the current events I am seriously worried about your wife being around your child.We all have different ways of handling anger.Coming at you with hot iron is definitely not normal or right in my books.Sometimes we don't recognize certain signs early and end up paying dearly for it.
You also need to remember that yelling at her,cornering her so that she cannot walk away is akin to abuse as well.Love is a strange factor.It can make everything work.With the right counseling and analyzing things can get on the right track.I understand you were worried about your child.Anger accomplishes nothing in life.Soon it starts to be a habit.I think there are lots of communication issues as well.Most of the time communication problems start when things are not right in the sex department.Before going to a therapist Please take down a paper and write what is bothering you about your wife?Are you happy with her in every way possible?
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (31 January 2010): I think your wife was being unreasonable. Never the less. this is a minor issue, no need to divorce or anything. (:
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (29 January 2010):
 Knock it on the head Q1605, he checked, she aint got no personality disorder. OK, she tried to kill him, but, well....... yea, I'm still interested to find out why she would do that!!!
I like this tone a lot better Mr Husband. Your in a better state of mind, and are now having fun with us and our suggestions. Guess you was angry when you wrote your original post and that anger came out in your writing.
Good luck with the talk-talk thing tonight. Don't really think you believe that anything is wrong with your marriage, but it's strange for women to want to physically damage you. When they get to that point, it usually means you have to talk.
For me, again, stuff don't add up, can't understand why this whole situation blew up like this. I'm going for she's angry about the way you communicate with her, your a very clever man, and you have a way of (dare I say it) patronizing. Probably not intentional, but, hey, in the wrong situation it can inflame.
Once again, thanks for getting back to us, and good luck on the marriage communication thing.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2010): From the OP:
For Steve: "I think the real story is that you have regularly been late (not a few times!) to collect your son. "
No, this is in fact the first time I've been late. The other changes to collecting him have been when my wife has decided not to take my son. Perhaps it's true that I'm a little fed up with the number of changes...
"I think your actions in most other respects are frequently antagonistic and dominating.
You both have deep seated problems here - it appears you are a bit of a control freak and your wife is simply not buying it." OK, you've painted a picture of our whole relationship and me as a person from a summary of one incident....
Relate - UK marriage counselling service - is a good idea.
Thanks :-}
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male
reader, called Steve +, writes (29 January 2010):
 Lets dissect your post:A few times there has been a last minute change...I've frequently asked my wife not to text but speak to me...OK - little conflict going on here! I think the real story is that you have regularly been late (not a few times!) to collect your son. Consequently your wife has lost it and forced the issue!Whilst you are well within your rights to defend yourself I think your actions in most other respects are frequently antagonistic and dominating.You both have deep seated problems here - it appears you are a bit of a control freak and your wife is simply not buying it.Relate should be your next port of call...Steve
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2010): From the OP:
Reply to Female, anon.:
"standing in front of the door as to keep her trapped is provoking as well, didn't you think of that? And you're shouting or talking in an angry voice, that is provoking as well.
Also, your child was at home, and heard all of this. What do you think he thinks?"
Thankfully our son was asleep: my wife had put him to bed rather than take him to football. I checked him afterwards and he was sound asleep, I'm glad to say.
I accept your other points in full and as per my response below I accept that my behaviour needs to improve. Thank you for your answer too :-)
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2010): Well standing in front of the door as to keep her trapped is provoking as well, didn't you think of that? And you're shouting or talking in an angry voice, that is provoking as well.
Also, your child was at home, and heard all of this. What do you think he thinks?
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2010): From the OP:Thanks q1605, there's no time like the present so I've googled this. I'm in the UK so I got this from: http://www.psychnet-uk.com/clinical_psychology/criteria_personality_borderline.htmIt lists possible defining characteristics of Borderline Personality (which is "A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity") and suggests 5 is enough to give a positive diagnosis. I'm no pyschotherapist so take this for what it's worth but I have lived with my wife for long enough to know her well. So I've subdivided the characteristics into how true I think they are for her, and come up with this:Yes, these I believe to be true for my wife:(Y1) A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluationThis is true of certain friendships and possibly of her feelings for me too(Y2) Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).I think so, she stays very - intensely- anxious and very angry for a few days at a time, but don't women stay angry etc for longer than men, aren't women more likely to be anxious, am I an old-fashioned chauvinist ???!(Y3) Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).Maybe these are true, maybe they're not(M1) Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonmentRecurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior. One threat/gesture about a year ago, and I think one early on in our relationship, but I’m hazy on that.Unsure whether these are true, possibly due to not being sure I understand them(U1) Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of selfI don't really know what that would look like, but I don't think so(U2) Chronic feelings of emptiness.I think only the person themselves could answer this, but my wife hasn't told me that she feels this.(U3) Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.I'm pretty sure not, but I wouldn't really know it if I walked past it in the street :-/And the last section: this does not describe my wife:(N1) Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Not in those areas, but she’s impulsive in, mostly, good ways. She doesn’t like forward planning, whereas I do. That’s one of the things that I found attractive – she was up for doing anything at short notice !So I've got 3 perhaps 4, and would need 5 to think there was an issue.... to me it seems probably not. But then again, I've just looked through them considering one of my best friends - the one I probably know the best - and I could only give him a 1, possibly a 2 if I'm very harsh. Thanks for the input, I know more now than I did (much more than if I had discussed this issue with a friend) I think if this is an issue it'll need to be picked up by a counsellor but I'll bear it in mind.OP:-)
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2010): thank you for the really useful replies. This has exceeded any expectation I had, it’s been really helpful and I’ve found it’s really challenged me.
Thank you ‘Fatherly Advice’ and ‘K c 100’ for two caring and thoughtful answers that have kindly but firmly shown me that I’m more wrong than I thought. I certainly have things to apologise for and improve in my conduct.
But ‘Miamine’ – wow, you are just sooooo cynical ! ‘Woohoo’ (do you like trains or something!) I’ll google “Marriage Fitness” and see if I think it might help. And ‘Tigerlily’, I think you’re right about counseling….
q1605, I think your reply was a bit deep for me, but perhaps the counseling will tackle this if there’s an issue there. And ‘sarcy24’, I think your reply was astute and true and again a reason for agreeing that the counseling is necessary.
‘male reader’ – I’m going to think about this depending on what is said tonight, but I think I probably won’t phone the police because I think that would escalate matters and I don’t know if anything further might happen - children/social services? My wife is entirely safe with the kids.
Thank you all very much. Keep your fingers crossed for us this evening. I had a night out with a friend planned for tonight, having understood that I was significantly in the wrong I’m going to cancel; I think we both have some serious talking to do.
:-)
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2010): You are a victim of domestic violence. Call the police and report her so it is at least on record that she has done this.
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female
reader, sarcy24 +, writes (29 January 2010):
 There appears to be a lot of pent up anger and fury in your wife. The desire to provoke you to physical action suggests that she is feeling decidedly frustrated. Are you getting along generally, are you affectionate and loving with each other or are you just existing.
Does she always communicate with you by text or is it a recent thing? Does she not want to hear your voice or is she looking at a chance that you might not receive a text so it gives her the opportunity to have a go at you. Of Course you are in the right with regard to your child and being worried but I do not think this is about this. She is clearly not at all happy and I think you need to think why this is and what you can do to change things.
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A
female
reader, Tigerlily  +, writes (29 January 2010):
Clearly you two have some communication issues. The fact that they are escalating to screaming and pushing and threats with hot irons means they have reached dangerous levels, and may point to some deeper issues as well. I think you two need to go to marriage counseling.... like immediately. You both need to find a way to communicate more effectively with each other.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (29 January 2010):
Why do I feel that this is a suckers bet... find the queen when there are only jacks in the pack.
Controlled and measured language, you did nothing wrong, you only raised your voice once because you were worried, and after that you just spoke in a deep calm voice... ppffff... who the hell talks like that when they are panicing, angry and worried.
And your wife, she must be wrong, she doesn't follow instructions, she gets things wrong, she made you worry because she texted instead of calling, she was trying to provoke calm non-violent you and when that didn't work she turned into a mad woman and tried to kill you..
There are always two sides to the story, and right now I'd be might interested to hear from your wife why she attracted you. She was the one who was swearing and rude, you were polite, non-aggressive and calm, but she attacks you, not the other way around? Very, very interesting.
Have you ever heard of passive-aggression, that's what I think you did to your wife, and that's what I think your doing now. Why dose it matter what we say or think, why are you trying to make your wife appear to be a monster and your the saint who has to put up with this.
Things are never as black as they are painted, they are usually different shades of mud grey.
Who was right, who was wrong.. well I don't like to gamble, especially when I feel the deck is stacked against me. I wasn't there, so I don't know what really happened, and I haven't heard what your wife has to say. Right now, this is something that has blown out of all proportion, and no matter what me or anyone else has to say, I'm not your wife and I'm not living with you, and I don't know why she would suddenly go crazy and try to damage you.
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (29 January 2010):
 Original poster asks: "My questions really centre on my behaviour: Whilst endeavouring to talk about this with my wife to try to resolve it, am I right to consider my behaviour reasonable."
If you are like me you will eventually come to the conclusion that any thing you did in the heat of anger was not completely reasonable. Lets look at you actions one by one.
One, you shouted. This was an outburst as a result of your worry, bordering on terror. While it was unproductive and mean it is a very hard thing to control ones emotions, in very tense situations.
Two, you rang off. By doing this you cut off communication to avoid the reply you had just earned. This is the same tactic that you disapprove of in your wife IE. walking off to avoid a difficult conversation. You may have thought you were sparing her your anger but in effect you shut her out, and insured you got the last word.
Third you cornered her in a room and forced a conversation / lecture. This is a passive aggressive action. The emergency was over, you had already communicated your frustration to her. She was punishing you for your shouting and you were asserting your right to rule. We aren't discussing her actions just yours. You would have been better off to wait her out.
Fourth, you protected yourself from assault using restrained force. We have to accept this action as the right of anyone.
Fifth, you resisted responding to her verbal attack. This is again appropriate. You were in no danger and had the assault continued you could have escaped easily. There was no reason to respond or to force her.
Now a word about motivations and what to do next. Often as men or as humans we tend to confuse righteous anger with pride. Some will tell you that righteous anger doesn't exist, I will say that it is very rare. Often we are just trying to prove that we have the "right to rule". Don't let your pride get in the way of your happiness.
Your relationship still has an open, festering wound. You have to do something about it. Being a man requires you to use your strength to heal as well as to protect. When you next talk to your wife about this you need to start by apologizing. I don't think there is any question that some of the things you did were wrong, or hurtful. By starting with an apology you will take her off the offensive and you can open the doors to communicate again. When you are communicating (two way) not lecturing (one way), then make sure you tell her specifically what you want her to do, and express confidence that she will do it. You are at the age that control of your anger should be achieved. You need to work on that. Tell her that you will. Don't think of this as a wimp's way out. These are things that take real strength.
FA
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2010): It is acceptable to use physical force against women in some circumstances.
Those being self defence or defence of another person or animal from harm by that woman.
Many people have a misconception that it is never okay to hit a woman and while the reasons for believing that are just (frankly too much violence is perpetrated against women) it is simply not that simple.
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A
female
reader, k_c100 +, writes (29 January 2010):
 I think your behaviour was reasonable - she came at you with a hot iron and that could have cause some serious harm to you if she had hit you with it, so of course it is only natural to protect yourself in this sort of situation.
I can understand why your wife got upset - not many people react well to being shouted at, especially women, and shouting is not a productive way to discuss the problems you are facing. However she had no right to act in the way she did - it was a violent, unprovoked outburst that could have physically harmed you if you had not pushed her away.
The problem is that you were both upset - you had a valid reason for being angry as she ignored your former requests and led you to be worried about your child. But where you went wrong was to shout - shouting does not solve anything. At that point rather than shouting you should have said something like this "ok, I've spoke to you about this before and it seems we still have a problem. I need to talk to you about this when I get home please". That would have given you time to collect your thoughts, calm down and then when you got home you could sit down with your wife to discuss the situation.
The behaviour that will have led to your wife's outburst is first of all the very loud shouting, then standing and blocking a doorway (this is a strong physical stance almost trapping her where she was - body language in these situations is just as important as what you say) and then talking to her in a raised voice for the rest of the discussion. What she did was wrong, but your handling of the situation prior to her coming at you with the iron was also wrong and not conducive to solving the issue.
It seems to me that your wife may have some anger issues that need to be dealt with, and you seem to have some communication problems. All I can suggest is that you both start counselling - both couples counselling and individual counselling for your wife would be a good idea.
Aside from that, if you leave the situation as it is then you are going to continue to shout at your wife when a problem occurs rather than talking to her in a calm and sensible manner, so she is going to react defensively and her anger problems will re-surface.
I hope this helps and good luck!
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2010): From the OP:
thank you for your replies, I appreciate it.
CG: the 'was I okay to push her' title wasn't my choice, and I agree that I don't see what else I could have done at that point.
ABB: "I think your outburst on the phone was normal" - thank you, I was doubting myself a bit.
"Try and keep calm, apologise for your outburst..." okay, so it was normal but not perhaps ideal, and well... just apologise anyway... that's fine, we've all done it, I just want to understand.
And you both agree that my wife and I need to talk about the iron incident, and what's behind it, because although I had been cross - that was too much.
Thank you :-)
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A
female
reader, Honeygirl  +, writes (29 January 2010):
 Hun, your wife has serious anger issues.. these need to be addressed as her behaviour is not conducive to a healthy relationship.
Marriage counselling is strongly recommended.
Honeygirl
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2010): First of all it was extremely stupid of your wife to rely on texting when she knows from past experience that txts cant be relied on. Very stupid. Especially when it concerned your childs safety. Why she didnt call you is beyond me. Secondly, you were still running on pure adrenaline when you got home. Who wouldnt be after thinking their child may have been snatched! But confronting your wife and blocking the doorway, probably wasnt the wisest thing to do. You may have made her feel trapped and threatened. Hence coming at you brandishing a hot iron. It was an unfortunate evening but may have highlighted some issues within your marriage. You sound frustrated by your wifes `buttoned up` approach to verbal conflict and i hazard a guess thats not all you are unhappy with. You need to speak to her about couples counselling x
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A
female
reader, Aunty BimBim  +, writes (29 January 2010):
 I am female, mother of three, grandmother, and I know the feeling when your child is not where you expect them to be.
I think your outburst on the phone was normal. Hers may be guilt because you have asked her previously to phone or make sure you have received her texts, and she has ignored that request.
The hot iron is a bit of a worry, maybe your thoughts that she was looking for you to make her a victim are correct, but if that was so I would think there were other issues in the marriage already.
Try and keep calm, apologise for your outburst, explain you were frightened when you couldnt find your boy, ask her again to phone rather than text, and take it from there
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A
male
reader, CaringGuy +, writes (29 January 2010):
You were right to push her since she was coming at you with an iron. She actually has anger problems, and they need to be addressed. To come at you with an iron shows she has a lot of problems, and you need to talk to her about it.
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