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Why can't she just wake up and see life away from this idiot?

Tagged as: Breaking up, Health, Troubled relationships<< Previous question   Next question >>
Question - (9 April 2014) 15 Answers - (Newest, 13 April 2014)
A age 51-59, anonymous writes:

Why do people stay with abusers? Especially alcoholics who get nasty when they drink? I have a friend in this situation, she is married but they have no children and it would be straightforward for her to leave but all she does is complain and get upset and then he is nice and sober for a few days and then she is happy and then the same old cycle goes on and one. She is in her early fifties, I wonder if she only stays because she thinks she won't find anyone else, but she's really pretty.

She's been with him for over 6 years, she knew he drank quite heavily when she met him but he kept the serious stuff back until the ring was on her finger.

I don't understand how you can stay around someone you are afraid of and when they get really drunk, you have to leave the house. This happens at least 2 or 3 times a month too. I've tried to make her see she could have a better life but she gets upset with me for telling her she's with an abuser.

I realise it's co-dependency and she is just as mentally ill as he is, but why can't she just wake up and see life away from this idiot?

View related questions: alcoholic, drunk

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A female reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2014):

Hi

Things are not always as clear cut as we would believe or like to think, no matter what the book say's.

My Great Grandfather(alcoholic)dropped dead in the street. Also Grandfather was an alcoholic and My Father was an Alcoholic. Who knows, maybe genetics involved) however none of us offspring have addiction problems.

What I dislike about situations like this, is people automaticly pull the page of a book out and say 'this is the page you belong too'. This is not always the case.

Why is this friend Mentally Ill?

My mother had years of hell and is the strongest Lady I will ever know (not a broken woman but certainly close at times) I could challenge anyone to assume she must have been mentally Ill and I would say no, because she had choice and her choice was to stay with the man she married. BECAUSE of what she endured she learnt to overcome everything and so did my father who recovered completely. Totally accept and agree Stockhold syndrom exists in some abusive relationships, a very interesting take on things.

Their pain was our pain and taught us 4 children to not fear life and it's hard times and knowing that we have the ability to heal and also choose what we are prepared to experience and know the dark does not always win.

I hate labels and assumptions, our 'page' history would suggest we naturally would be affected by our fathers alcoholism, yes I agree but not how the book say's or the genetics.

Do we stay to 'SOS' our loved one, is there Martydom involved, is it fear of surviving alone,is it love? for what reason can we put ourselves through pain when it is so easy to turn and walk away?

In some cases I agree this is the best or only thing to do, but it's just not as cut and dry as you say.

Who really cares, it's life, and we have to get on with it, make our own happiness our own mistakes. Break, mend,

choose to be loved or unloved, it's experiences that we choose to walk away from or go through them and come out the other side.

You are projecting experiences onto your friend that don't belong to her(even though you mean well). Not always the same story and endingS, we all have unique lives and paths to follow. Leave her to make or break while you get on with your life and relationships and mistakes and hope nobody assumes they know the outcome of your life experiences.

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A female reader, llifton United States +, writes (13 April 2014):

llifton agony auntI have known a lot of addicts in my life, and I believe it comes from a couple of factors that all play in together to create the ultimate outcome.

A good many of the addicts I have known have had poor coping skills. This may develop from an upbringing where you aren't shown the proper way to handle/manage stress healthily, or you learn by following in your parents unhealthy footsteps. Either way, many addicts don't know how to cope with life's many problems and stressors in a healthy manner. Many of them use in order to deal/cope. When they're stressed or anxious they drink or use whatever substance is their drug of choice. And that's what sets up the downfall.

So throw this inability to cope in a healthy manner in with something tragic occurring in their lives, and watch the spiral begin. If you already don't have a healthy way of dealing with stress, you're going to be in a lot of trouble when something bad happens in your life.

One of my dearest friends is an alcoholic. I picked him up from a different state in January after he drank himself nearly to death. Lost his job, house - everything. He was living in a hotel that was about to kick him out on the street. I picked him up and checked him into rehab. he just got out after 3 months and is doing amazing! But the catalyst for his initial drinking years and years ago was his brother and father both passing away in the same month. He began to drink to cope with it and then it became a necessity that spiraled out of control.

I have other friends with very similar stories. My roommate is the same way. Never learned proper coping skills and followed in her parents footsteps. she coped with stress with narcotics. She always self-medicated with them, but when her father passed away last May, she spiraled out of control and became way worse.

So I very much do think that for many, there is an underlying reason/pain that has not been dealt with. It starts with the fundamentals of not knowing how to handle life's stresses and so when something truly bad happens, you fall back on the one way you've ever learned to cope - drugs. And it's all downhill from there.

I suppose this may not be true for all, but I believe that most could benefit from learning to cope healthily and receiving counselling for what it was that triggered them to spiral in the first place.

For my friend, he realized that despite these deaths being many years back, he'd never dealt with them because he'd just been drunk. So he started counselling to learn how to cope with stress in general, as well as to work through the loss finally.

Anyway, just my two cents.

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A female reader, So_Very_Confused United States +, writes (13 April 2014):

So_Very_Confused agony auntI am not sure if it's the pain that has to be addressed or not... how they cope with their demons is what needs to be addressed partially.

I have several close friends who are ACOA... one has never touched drugs or alcohol and it is her choice. Her husband is a huge beer drinker but not to excess.

My other friend is married to a functional alcoholic and he drinks about a case of beer each day... she drinks beer on occasion when she goes out.

NEITHER of them has ever smoked which i find interesting... THEY do not feed their genetic addictions but they are well aware of them and both watch it very carefully.

TO me you do not HAVE to live what your genes plan for you BUT it's always a concern for BOTH of them... they are aware of the problems.

My older friend had a younger brother who could not handle his genetic demons and in his mid 20s committed suicide rather than cope with his genetic predisposition.

Yes the whole Nature vs Nurture thing comes into play and perhaps the children of active alcoholics/addicts have it different than those who's parents were able to control their genetic predisposition prior to the kids being born or old enough to be aware.

My husband's genetic side is NOT the side that raised him... his father died when he was very young and at 15 his grandparents took custody of him... he still battles his past both emotional nurture (or lack thereof) and genetic.

No it's not all genetics but it's not all choice either.

It's a combination of the two.

I just hate it when folks who have addictions are BLAMED for making the CHOICE to be an active addict when I have seen from all sides that those in the throes of their addictions would much rather be able to JUST SAY NO and we can't. I include myself in this... I've had surgery to help with my out of control eating... and it does. My choice of Weight Loss Surgery while NOT fixing my food addictions has helped me find ways to control it so that I can function as a healthy normal person.

Other people (like my ex husband and next door neighbor) did not use the gift of their tool and have both gone back to obese sizes by choosing to feed their addictions.

It's the same for some addicts or alcoholics... they try to fix it but they can't.

As for those of us who love them, I can't speak as to why all of them stay.. I'm sure some do out of their own addictions and co-dependency. I can say that I stay primarily because my husband even in his current state is AWARE of his issue and is MAKING progress in battling it.

It's NOT fast progress... in fact to those far outside my life it's NOT progress... but the intimate circle sees growth and improvement and baby steps are all I ask.

I wish I could explain it better to help you all understand why those of us that are healthy and functional (although like I said I am co-dependent and an addictive personality myself) choose to stay with those that are not yet living a life that society approves of.

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A reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2014):

This is verified as being by the original poster of the question

I know a couple of alcoholics, some drug abusers and users, some binge drinkers. The ONE thing they ALL have in common is some neglect or abuse or serious unhappiness in their formative years, ranging from serious parental abuse, to being brought up in an alcoholic co-dependent family, being brought up by a narcissist or multiples thereof. There's always pain behind the drinking because the drinking is used to cope with life, otherwise life is too painful.

Until that pain is addressed, the addiction will continue to serve to cover it up and push it down. I don't believe people are born addicts, although there is some scientific research I think into a genetic component, but if that's the case, I think there's be a lot more alcoholics out there.

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A female reader, So_Very_Confused United States +, writes (12 April 2014):

So_Very_Confused agony auntTo the last poster who asked for my take on "why they are alcoholics" I disagree that there is a set reason for people. I guess for your ex he needs to come up with rationale as to why he does what he does.

I talked to a friend about this last night (btw hubby had a drunk night last night) while we were out and she said:

"If you have never battled an addiction you can't begin to understand what goes into it" and I agree.

As an addictive personality, I get that, it's so easy to fall in to abuse from the use stage...

My husband had a lousy upbringing but that does not excuse or explain his alcoholism. He is to this day totally 100% estranged from his mother by his choice. He does not care if his friends like him or not... he does not drink to be social or be liked. in fact, he prefers to be home alone with his bottles.

do we create this? oh hell no. he was this way before I got him.

it's like being gay... my darling brother once said to me 'don't you think if I could I would have chosen the wife, the white picket fence, the station wagon, a dog and 2.5 kids?"

don't you think if my husband was able and ready to be sober he would chose that? I would.

our insurance provides ONE lifetime 28 day in patient rehab per person.. HE knows this and we have agreed NOT TO WASTE it till HE is BEGGING Me to let him go... otherwise it's as waste... addicts have to be ready and willing to be clean and they have to do if for themselves.

I am co-dependent. I am ADHD. I have my own issues but god help me I want my husband happy healthy and sober. I am not in any way shape or form trying to keep him this way...

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A female reader, anonymous, writes (11 April 2014):

Hello

So Very Confused I read your post in response to the OP's post. I was somewhere inbetween her friend's situation and your own - stayed 18 years with a binge drinker.

I am sure you are very, very much more qualified than I am to understand your husband's behaviour so I wouldn't dream of 'advising' you! And also you haven't asked for advice either! BUT I just wanted to ask you, I suppose, when you say that your husband is 'battling demons that others can't understand', whether there is a possibility that this 'mystery' surrounding alcoholism may contribute to perpetuating it...I only ask because one day recently I had a light bulb moment and it helped both me and my now ex partner. For nearly two decades I'd read so much about alcoholism and psychology and still couldn't really find any answer and the longer that the /mystery went on the worse it felt - as if my partner had some deep, unfathomable reason for being an alcoholic. It added to the enormous weight. Then after I'd left him I was reading about co-dependency and ADD and narcissism and I thought "There's no mystery to this at ALL, he simply is co-dependent, has narcissism and ADD and he drinks in order to socialise because he fears, more than anything else in the world, being emotionally abandoned". I did not mention this to my ex at all because I was trying to break free from co-dependency and 'mending' him. But about a month later, when we spent a particularly nice day together (we still meet up sometimes) he of his own accord said that he felt he binge drinks because he feels like, if he doesn't, all the people that he drinks with will realise he is really boring and no-one will want to associate with him. I simply asked him if he thought that fear of people leaving him emotionally was deeper and maybe from earlier on, and he began to identify that maybe it was not so much about the people leaving him but about one person - his mother - never validating his emotional needs as a child. He is almost on the point of beginning, of his own accord, to go to counselling. I'm not pushing it, trying to stay detached. Never the less it was a really positive feeling for both of us.

So I suppose I am just asking you if you feel that the 'demons' in a way can be of the alcoholic's own making, or even of a couple's making, without them realising it - that they become the 'mystery' that surrounds the real issue and that these clouds of mystery are, without realising it, brought into place, in order to really stop them from looking at a single extremely painful issue, an unmet need, that causes the tendency to drink? I'd really like to know your opinion. And I wonder if it might help the OP to understand her friend's partner.

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A female reader, So_Very_Confused United States +, writes (10 April 2014):

So_Very_Confused agony auntOh Thank you for the follow up OP. I can see that this is very hard for you and that your friend is in a way worse place with her situation than I am. Clearly she’s not ready to even admit his role in this or her role in enabling him. I DO NOT enable my husband. IF he wants to be a drunk and call in to work, that’s on him. If he wants to do stupid things that’s ON HIM.

I had him arrested once for attacking me. The courts held him accountable and it was a light bulb moment for him. IF she enables him by looking the other way, then she is in need of the drama too. I don’t want the drama so I refuse to enable him by calling in to work for him or lying for him or pretending to our friends or doctors that all is well. ALL IS NOT WELL.

How incredibly brave of YOU to say NO to someone you loved. Thankfully for us the good times outweigh the bad and my husband is VERY functional. He works, he is honest, he never lies, he does not steal and he’s never a sloppy drunk. OCD and alcoholism are an interesting mix to say the least.

And the fact that you are long distance from this friend has to be incredibly hard on you. I am now very mad at your friend for abusing you on the phone. She just wants someone to listen to her whine and complain and say “oh poor baby” but she won’t hold him accountable. She’s enabling him. IF My husband got fired due to drinking or stole money from me or pawned my things to get money, my husband would NOT be my husband as those things ARE not acceptable.

And you are correct she lashed out at YOU because she won’t fight with him because she won’t hold him accountable probably because she is afraid that if she does he will leave. Seems to me that her situation is a bit different from mine in that she’s as heavily entrenched in his addiction as he is but she manifests it as care-taking.

IN your case I hope you told her “when you are abusive to me I can’t be there for you, call me when you are ready to behave like a mature adult and ready to apologize to me” Then HANG UP! You need to HOLD her ACCOUNTABLE for her bad behavior towards you. She can stay with him all she wants but she can also learn what she can and cannot get away with concerning her support system. She is cutting off her nose to spite her face so to speak and as such is clearly setting up a situation whereby she has NO support and is all alone so she can feed her own self-fulfilling prophecy of “see it’s so bad with him and it’s not my fault” when clearly her behavior towards you is hurting herself.

“I can’t leave he owes me money” is a crock. It’s her excuse. IF she stays he will continue to owe her money… that’s just her thin excuse for “I’m staying for my own reasons” In your friend’s case, I would suspect that there was dysfunction in her family growing up so this is what she’s comfortable with.

I’m sorry she abused you. I hope you feel strong enough to hold her accountable for her bad behavior. To be honest, as painful as that might be for both of you, it would be the RIGHT and GOOD FRIEND thing to do… letting her abuse you is bad for YOU and HER…

Thanks again for reading my post and supporting me.

Oh Thank you for the follow up OP.

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A reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2014):

This is verified as being by the original poster of the question

It looks as if part of my post got chopped off. I think I've said it all though! She basically said as he owes her money she can't leave him and reeled off a whole load of reasons why she shouldn't hold him accountable for ruining her week and I am an uncaring bitch.

So I think I will prove her right! No more listening to her complain! She can find another fool!

[Mod note: the previous followup was put through in its entirety. Please add the remainder if necessary.]

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A reader, anonymous, writes (10 April 2014):

This is verified as being by the original poster of the question

Thank you SVC for your long and interesting perspective. You were incredibly brave to marry someone when you knew they were an alcoholic, I can only take my hat off to you, I could not have done it, no matter how I felt about that person.

I know from personal experience how hard it can be though, when you really do love someone and hope that your love will be big enough to change them. I watched my Mum hope for that with my Dad. She's still hoping and has been for over 50 years. She saw him drink heavily and he also had a terrible wandering eye before they married, but she still chose to marry him. And the abuse goes on, although with not very much alcohol now as he has to take medication and it would mess with it. So he chose to stop drinking as much.

I also was involved with a cocaine and gambling addict, I loved him very much, but he took my money to keep his addictions going. He was great when he was clean for a few weeks and I do still love him, there was so much that was great about him, we were perfect together in many ways, but I couldn't see a life stuck with abuse, money draining and drugging one week and a "normal" life the next, never knowing stability. He also drank heavily but was a silly drunk, but I got tired of the drinking mixed with drugs and the vomiting and late nights sitting alone while he got hammered. We were engaged and I chose to break it off. Years down the line he still tries to call and emails me but I know how awful my life would have been had I gone through with the wedding.

So I do understand it. I would very much like to be the go to person physically for my friend, but she lives in Italy and I'm in the UK so she can't exactly come to me when she pleases. Until this morning I would have said, sure, had I lived closer, my door would also be open. That's changed though. She was actually extremely verbally abusive with me this morning. She basically battered me verbally, shouting and screaming. Her husband went on a 3-day bender, drank a couple of bottles of whisky and brandy and a load of beer and didn't go into work. He has done this quite a lot, the sad thing is he has just been promoted as well. He took her last 20 Euros and he was so nasty to her she had to stay with her brother. I told her to pack his bag and put it outside of the door when she gets home, of course she gets home and he is all sober and nice and can't see why she is upset. So she lost it with me? She was extremely nasty.

I've decided there must be some part of her wants the drama and enjoys being some kind of martyr and better than him somehow. She is just as bad as he is and I won't be helping her again.

But instead of getting upset with him, she's lashed out at me and said I'm uncaring and she can't do that, she can't leave him, he owes her money and a whole load of other reasons and

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A female reader, So_Very_Confused United States +, writes (9 April 2014):

So_Very_Confused agony auntSorry this is so long but if folks don't live this life I find it very weird that they think they can speak about what goes on in our heads.

You just described MY life I had to check your country flag and make sure you are not one of my friends posting about me….. so I guess I’ll talk about ME since I know why I stay with my husband.

I am 54. My husband is 40. We met in 2010. We married in 2012 and I knew he was an active alcoholic then. (an active alcoholic is one that is currently drinking as opposed to a recovering alcoholic who is sober.

Once we married he really lets his hair down when he’s drinking. I have learned to tell him “you are correct I do not want to be with you when you are drunk.” If it’s an angry drunk night (when he gets mad at me for things in his head) all bets are off and I leave our home and go to one of my safe places. Occasionally I just go to a different part of the house and wait him out by avoiding him totally.

We are open and honest with our doctors about his addiction and what safety plans are in place for me. My safety plan includes videotaping him when he starts getting abusive and leaving as needed. I also the next day hold him very accountable for his behavior. This has helped us in that he is now at the admitting he has a problem stage. He may never get past this stage but until they admit they drink too much there is no helping them at all. AT least now he’s owing his behavior.

I am blessed to have a large group of supportive friends who understand that I love this man and he loves me and his alcoholism is an illness. They understand that when we are having a bad patch that I need to vent more. I have one friend who gave me a key to her home and said “come at any time”

My husband’s father was an alcoholic as was his grandfather. My husband is a genetic, functional alcoholic

I’m no prize… I have my issues. Severe ADHD primarily…. But my broken fits his crazy as we like to say. I will also add that in addition to having many years of therapy on the patient side of the desk, I have a degree in Psychology.

WiseOwle likes to mention “STOCKHOLM Syndrome” as an excuse for one reason. But that is more about captors NOT spouses and not co-dependency. I do not for one minute think that Stockholm Syndrome applies here at all. WE are NOT being held captive. We stay by choice. Those of us who choose to stay with our abusers, don’t stay because we are being forced to.

He then says “more often women who stay with abusive men are afraid they can't take care of themselves. They don't know independence and feel they need a man in their lives in order to survive.” Perhaps some do. I do not.

I own our home. I have owned it for 24 years by myself. I work and earn 37k MORE than my husband. I DO NOT NEED HIM to take care of me. I am a very attractive, intelligent, articulate, popular, middle aged woman. I am way too good for him and I could “do better” as folks like to say.

I do not stay with him out of fear or obligation or any of the other things that folks who pretend to understand think we stay for. I stay out of love. I made a commitment to him and I plan to stick it out. Trust me I believe in divorce, I’ve had three of them. I am not terrified of being alone. I would prefer it at this point. I could easily say “leave” if I wanted to.

My husband, when sober does not threaten me. There are no children in this union (my children are grown and living on their own and they like my husband) When drunk and angry he can threaten me. He can be over the top. He never threatens anyone else. I am not being held emotionally hostage in any way shape or form. If he threatened to kill himself I would laugh at him. No guilt here when he’s self-harming.

Yes I love a week or two when he’s sober or sober enough.. And a beer or wine drunk is manageable. It’s NOT my fault he’s a drunk. It’s not my fault he has bad behavior. I do LOVE my husband and find the use of “love” by WiseOwlE to be insulting at minimum.

My husband has been known to say “sorry” for being lousy on a drunken night.. but he’s NEVER sweet… and he’s rarely apologetic. I don’t feel sorry for him for being abusive. I don’t make excuses for him and I don’t hide his addiction. There are no tears, there is no drama the next day. There is no emotional and dramatic apology. There is NO PROMISE to never do it again.

IN fact, there is the promise that it WILL happen again. We are very open and honest with each other, our medical providers and our friends that my husband is battling demons that others can’t understand. Perhaps we are way outside the norm. I don’t know I can’t speak about OTHERS that I know nothing of. I can only advise you based on my own personal experience.

If being her sounding board is not working for you, and you don’t want to be her safety plan, let her know she needs to make other arrangements. I have ONE friend who bears 90% of the burden of my safety plan because it’s HER choice.Of course she’s as codependent as I am so helping me is part of HER illness.

FWIW, I don’t drink by choice. I am not an alcoholic but I do have an addictive personality and my “drug” of choice is food…..

This is very very long and I’m sorry… but the reasons people choose to be married to and stay with others are personal and NOT always what they seem.

I have a GF who is with a man who is not an alcoholic but he’s abusive in very subtle Svengali like ways. He’s SO good at it she doesn’t even see she’s being abused. One of he signs he's abusive is actually the fact that he's very fast to accuse others of being abusive.

She can’t see it and as a group our mutual friends (and I) have agreed to say NOTHING to her about him till she is ready to hear it. Once she is ready I will be there for her 100%, detaching from him is going to be way harder for her than my leaving my husband. Her BF btw tried to tell me after meeting me 3 times and my husband twice, that I was an abused woman with NO SELF-ESTEEM. I showed my husband that message and we laughed. My husband said "are you kidding, SVC is one of the most secure women I know."

The BF then came on to me telling me HOW GORGEOUS I was and how HOT I looked etc etc etc. IN FRONT OF MY HUSBAND… He then tried to tell me how I was suffering much like WiseOwlE is saying.. but he’s very far off the mark.

He was practically threatening me to try to get me to leave my husband. I had to block him totally on social media. I told my friend I love her and will be with her at girl events but when she’s with him, I will not see her. I have other friends that will NOT spend time with my husband for the same reason. And that’s FINE. That is their choice and I totally respect it. OTOH when I am invited to an event that is co-ed and my spouse is specifically excluded because he is not liked, I choose to decline the invitation. NOT that he forces me... it's MY CHOICE.

IF you are NOT in my marriage, If you are NOT in my head, you have no clue what’s going on 24/7. I had a very bad patch with him this winter. I had some weeks I had to leave our home 2 or more times in one week… other times I can go for MONTHS not having to leave…..

When my husband is sober we have discussed this plan. He is aware of it. He is HAPPY we have it in place and while it’s occurring he’s madder than hell and screaming about… I just have learned to ignore him and walk away. I get in my car and I leave. Then I’m not being abused or harmed.

Yes it's a pain and yes I hate bothering my friends... but I've asked them clearly if they want me to stop and all of them say "I Am HERE FOR YOU WHEN YOU NEED ME"

IF you can't do it for your friend, or don't want to, that's PERFECTLY fine. You have every right to take care of yourself and say "I can't handle this I'm sorry"

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A female reader, llifton United States +, writes (9 April 2014):

llifton agony aunt"I realise it's co-dependency and she is just as mentally ill as he is, but why can't she just wake up and see life away from this idiot?"

You answered your own question. Except that neither of them are mentally ill. It's not mental illness. Just more like addiction.

But it is copendenency. The cycle is that tension starts to build in their relationship for a while, so she starts walking on eggshells trying to please him. He eventually blows up on her - becoming either physically or emotionally abusive, or both. He then comes back after he starts to panic about losing her, and apologizes profusely and will do and say ANYTHING it takes to get her back. He sucks up and is the perfect man she always wanted him to be for a while in order to gain her trust. So she convinces herself that she should give him another chance because she loves him.

It's a cycle of insanity; doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

The reason many women (and men) feel they can't leave is deeply rooted and psychological. But among a few of the reasons are because they've usually been so isolated for so long without a close knit group of friends or family to support them, that they feel alone and incapable of leaving. Also, the codependency thing you mentioned plays a key factor, as well as they have been abused for so long, they often times have no self esteem left. So yes, the feeling of not being able to find someone else in a way is a part of it.

Try not to get frustrated at her. I know it's hard because it's hard to see someone you love treated in this manner. just keep in mind she is stuck in a viscious cycle and it's incredibly hard to get out of. Some women have to escape to shelters in order to finally break the cycle of abuse.

Anyway, I hope your friend can finally find some happiness. Good luck.

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A reader, anonymous, writes (9 April 2014):

This is verified as being by the original poster of the question

Thanks everyone. I just forwarded her the link from Tish (thank you) and she emailed back: "Thanks for that, everything's ok now though, I don't need help, he's only terrible when he's drunk, it will be fine". It was only a few days ago at the weekend she was calling me at 2 am for advice as he was verbally abusive because she came home half an hour late and he had packed his bags to leave (lol.. perhaps she should have opened the door). He does that a lot to freak her out from the sounds of things. It's a control move I reckon. And then the next day she's posting loved up photos of him on Facebook like nothing has happened. They say every picture tells a tale.. his face looks like a pickled old lump of sauerkraut!

Cerberus you are right. By listening to her I am enabling her in a way. She drops all her bad emotions on me when she calls "for a chat to see how I am" and I speak about me for 5 minutes if I'm lucky to get a word in edgeways and then the next 2 hours or so are him and her. If I don't listen to her, she will have to find somebody else. I guess I was only doing it because I cared, because on a couple of occasions he was throwing stuff around and slamming the doors and I thought he might hit her. He pushed her down once and I got really concerned.

She's old enough to take care of herself and I can't MAKE her see she's settling for an abusive drunk. And I know she drinks too.... Cerberus you said maybe I don't know the whole story.. you could have a point. I drink rarely, if I do it's 1/2 wines or beers and that's it. I've noticed in the past she has become quite verbose and a little bit aggressive when she has had alcohol, so it could be a case of like attracting like.

Whatever is going on, it's time to stop being her personal counsellor and look after myself. If the phone rings later I'll be screening my calls!

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A female reader, Tisha-1 United States +, writes (9 April 2014):

Tisha-1 agony aunthttp://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-violence-articles.asp?section=00010001002200410001&itemid=1296#5 Funny, I was just referring this website to another user here.

Here's the text from the link I just gave you:

"t’s understandable that you’re in a very frustrating situation. Unfortunately, unless your friend chooses to take some action and remove herself from this situation there’s little that you can do to make her. She’s only likely to leave and not return if the decision is her own and she doesn’t feel that she’s being pushed into doing things she doesn’t want to do. It seems that you’re doing everything that you can by being a friend and by being there for her. Remember that you can’t change the situation for her and that you must also look after yourself.

Try to understand the reasons that your friend may have for staying in the relationship. She may still love him and believe that he’ll change. Although it’s possible for abusive people to change their behaviour, this takes a lot of effort and full acknowledgement that the abuse is their responsibility. Professional help would normally be required in order for a person to realise why they are abusive and to address their own issues. What normally happens is that the abuse increases in frequency and severity over time. Perhaps you could discuss this with your friend, but remember that you can’t force her to realise this. At the moment it seems that she’s hoping that he will change. It’s quite normal for a woman to attempt to leave an abusive relationship several times before making the final break.

She may feel that she couldn’t cope on her own. As a result of the abuse her self-esteem is likely to be very low. Often an abusive person will tell the other person that the abuse is their fault. If somebody is constantly telling you something, eventually you start to believe it. Domestic Violence is always the responsibility of the abuser. There’s nothing that your friend could do to make it acceptable for him to abuse her.

Talk to her about these things and try to understand if she’s not ready to leave the relationship just yet. Encourage her to get in touch with a local domestic violence service. This could take some of the pressure off you, as she would then have external help and support and someone else to talk to. She may find it easier to talk to someone that she doesn’t know. Hopefully through getting support and realising that she’s not alone she will begin to build confidence in herself and then she will be more likely to be able to end the relationship."

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I think a lot of women in this situation cling to the hope that their love will fix the problem, that love will conquer it and change the man for the better. It may seem obvious from the outside but if you hold that belief, it's really hard to leave because then you've given up. And what if he DID change? She'd have missed it after dedicating all that time, attention and love and sacrificing in order to help the man she sees as fixable.

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A reader, anonymous, writes (9 April 2014):

OP with all due respect you don't have an inside view as to what their relationship is like, only what she says and in terms of abuse 2 or 3 times a month is not high on the scale, nor does it seem like he physically abuses her.

OP you say she's as mentally ill as him, for all you know she could be worse than him. She could be an absolute demon to him and the only time he responds to that is when he's drunk.

As for why she doesn't leave, there can be many reasons. It doesn't happen that often, it's not as bad as she makes out when she complains, she's just as bad as him, the good outweigh the bad and she's able tolerate the shit he is while drunk by just avoiding him, she may feel trapped, perhaps she's broken, maybe she's settling, maybe having you as her emotional crutch enables her to stay with him because you're propping her up.

Either way, OP, what business is it of yours? You think that just because she goes to you to complain about him you have some kind of right "make her see" how better her life would be? Not a chance, OP, you can't say that at all. She's too old to not know that if life is shit in some way you change it, she's too old to put up abuse so bad she can't tolerate it so if you ask me she can tolerate it and is willing to avoid him the once or twice a month he becomes like that.

OP separate yourself from her relationship emotionally, who cares why she stays, it's her life let her make her own mistakes.

In your position my response to any moaning about her situation would be resolute and uncompromising, "change it or shut up about it". You see, OP, I won't be someone's emotional crutch, I won't enable them to keep holding on to a situation that's harming them by being their outlet so they can recharge and go straight back in.

It sounds to me you're more of an enabler of this than actually helping, so next time she starts to moan make your position known one final time and then tell her you're not going to keep repeating yourself and you simply are not interested in listening to her complain over and over about the same thing.

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A reader, anonymous, writes (9 April 2014):

Extensive research and studies have been done to try and figure that out. One of the terms I've heard referred to it, is Stockholm Syndrome. The hostage becomes sympathetic to their captor. Sometimes even protective.

More often, women who stay with abusive men are afraid they can't take care of themselves. They don't know independence and feel they need a man in their lives in order to survive.

They are terrified of being alone and having to fend for themselves. I've read it might be an inherent instinct that dates back to primitive man. When the primitive female felt she was not strong enough to live unprotected and exposed to the wild; she'd rather remain with a stronger male to protect her.

Most of the time, it is because she is under threat from the abuser. He threatens to do her harm, her children, or someone she loves. He uses manipulation and her fear to hold her emotional-hostage. Some abusers even threaten to kill themselves; knowing she wouldn't want that on her conscience, or the memory haunting her eternally.

They do wake-up and see eventually. Often because of wonderful protective and caring friends like you, who stand by them and let them know they have support.

They can't see clearly. Their fear is stronger than their common-sense. They know they need out, but they can't get past the fear. You can't tell a grown woman what to do.

Many women and men in abusive relationships return, even after a lot of counseling; even under the threat of very severe and traumatic conditions! They're actually concerned about the well-being of their abusers!

If you've read many of the posts here; you read how they say they "love" these people. They are fixated on the repetitive cycle where he abuses her, then he's sweet and apologetic; and she feels sorry for him and returns. She even takes blame for his bad behavior. They are so taken by these emotional and dramatic apologies. The crocodile tears, pleading, and promises never to do it again. They return after years of this same crap, over and over.

One day, they just get fed-up. Usually after he has nearly beat their brains out. Or, if family and friends intervene and simply don't allow them to go back. They literally have to restraint these women. Like rebellious teenagers they will sneak out of a window, and run buck naked in the street back to these assh*les. Then complain and whine about how they're treated.

Don't give up on advising her. Just don't feel responsible for what she's going through.

If it starts to effect your mental state, cause you depression, and bring you too much grief; leave her to her chosen situation. She is there, because she wants to be.

You don't have to burden your life with her problems. You deserve to live a drama-free life; if you're doing what you know is right. Remove yourself but stay connected. That's the best you can do. Be on the peripheral to keep an eye on her, but don't become too deeply involved. It's already starting to get to you.

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