A
female
age
30-35,
*oony10
writes:i was just having a discussion with someone and i was wondering what you guys think of these 2 situations. my question is regarding the females of these situations. Scenario A: a couple (Tom and Lisa) has been together for 1.5 month. the girl, Lisa, gets really drunk and engages in oral sex with someone. the next, day she feels horrible about what she's done and tells the boyfriend, Tom, about what happens. boyfriend is obviously upset but decides to keep the relationship going. for a week, the girl talks to the guy that she had oral sex with, then realizes there's no way that her relationship can work. Girlfriend calls boyfriend and tells him they should end the relationship. Bf(tom) agrees and is now single. Girl, Lisa, is dating boy she cheated on with and they are now getting married. Scenario B: a couple (Frank and Kathy) have been together for 4 years. boyfriend, frank, cheats on girlfriend. next day, feels horrible, tells her about it. girlfriend is upset but decides to stay in the relationship. 2 years later, this girlfriend, kathy, gets drunk and gets a ride from a friend. the 2 end up sleeping together. the next day, girl feels horrible but does not tell her bf about it as not to upset him. girlfriend, kathy, continues to talk to the man she cheated with and has a relationship, sexual and otherwise, simultaneously, for about 2-6 months. all the while, her original boyfriend, frank, is unaware of their interaction or even the cheating happened. few months later, girlfriend breaks up with original boyfriend. everything is well, however a few months after that, original boyfriend, frank, gets proof his ex-gf, kathy, had been cheating on him and is upset and hurt. now gf, kathy, and man she cheated with are getting married. are these females of the same moral fiber? is GF#1, lisa, better than the other simply because she confessed and ended the relationship so her boyfriend could at least move on? or is gf#2, kathy, better than the other because she spared her boyfriend the agony of knowing of the affair although she was deceptive to him??
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (28 April 2013):
 Cheating is a choice, I agree 100% with Fatherly Advice
People who DECIDE to cheat knows full well what they are about to do and they CHOOSE to ignore the consequences, most likely because they think/hope they won't get caught. Or the "it only happened once, so it is not that bad or big of a deal".
A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (28 April 2013):
 Loony,
You are very good at catching me. Yes you did not bring up the idea of premeditated cheating. Which is certainly worse than cheating due to irresponsibility. Or the doubt-able accidental infidelity.
So we have a very solid idea here now. You believe that the betrayed partner should have all the information so he or she can make the decision open eyed whether to pursue reconciliation, or to leave the relationship. The first thing I have to say about that is that the betrayed partner has that choice whether or not the cheating partner volunteers the confession. Just as the cheating partner has the choice to cheat, continue to cheat, or turn away from cheating. The confession is not a gift to the betrayed partner. It is going to hurt them. But, it is the only way towards reconciliation.
So if the confession is offered as a path to reconciliation, as Lisa originally offered it, Then it has that redeeming factor of offering hope. If on the other hand the confession is offered in order to set the betrayed partner free, then it is only the duty of honesty.
Once again I have offered a third scenario. Lisa accidentally cheats on Tom. She realizes that Tom will be so hurt by this that the relationship can not continue. She confesses and refuses any offer of reconciliation.
Now, how do you think Tom will feel about that?
FA
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A
female
reader, loony10 +, writes (27 April 2013):
loony10 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYou misunderstood what I said. I never meant that contemplating cheating is somewhat excusable because then at least the partner can be free. I just meant if someone makes the mistake to cheat, pre-meditated or not, i think it's fair for the partner to have the choice to decide if he wants to stay and work or be free to find happiness with someone else. A cheater can or can not think their man is better off alone, but I think one should at least give them the chance to decide that for themselves.
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (27 April 2013):
Ah, Looney,
You caught me redirecting the conversation. I know that you said that Kathy was a successful (non caught) cheater. I thought that was overly optimistic and twisted the scenario to show the more likely outcome or mechanism of exposure.
That doesn't change my answer, I'll stick with Tom for the reason stated.
As for my other redirect. If you are concerned about which male would be less hurt, then obviously the ending for the men is also important. Many people contemplating cheating think that freeing the about to be betrayed partner to seek happiness elsewhere is some sort of kindness. What they are ignoring is that the betrayed partner already was pursuing happiness and indeed thought that they had found it. The idea that the man should be happy to be free is quite insulting. If you really think that we are better off alone then you should stop dating us.
I hope you can understand what I am trying to say here. you are looking at this problem in only one dimension. There is much more to look at.
FA
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A
female
reader, loony10 +, writes (26 April 2013):
loony10 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSVC, in the 2nd scenario, the bf didn't leave. He was dumped and then found out by chance that his ex was not as innocent as she put on. Also, not all partners who are told about cheating leave. That being said, the bf from the 1st scene didn't leave either, Lisa broke it off. My question was specifically, in this case would you rather be Tom or Frank. Fatherly advice, just to clarify Frank and Kathy were on good terms after the break up. They were most likely going to get back together. However, he found the proof of the affair when he used an internet browser that his ex hadn't logged her messages out of. So if that never happened, Kathy would have gotten off without any damage to her repuation. She never had any intention to share or come clean. That's also why I think Kathy can't even be compared to Lisa at all. The reason I asked you guys which bf you would prefer to be, is to make the point that their actions, do indeed matter. Tom, aside from that week, could then move on with his life. Frank was bamboozled into wasting a few months while under the impression that everything was great. To answer your follow up question, we don't know if the betrayed partner got a happy ending, but that's not the point of this post. I wanted to discuss the cheaters. At least they both are now free to find happiness.
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (26 April 2013):
Loony 10,
Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you that a person who changes their behavior is more trustworthy than one who continues from one treachery to the next. It could be argued that in both of your scenarios the women went on to become faithful partners and indeed entered into marriage commitments. But that is not your point. Your point is that both did irreparable damage to the relationship and one cut ties sooner.
Your follow up question is much harder, especially as you have ruled out the obviously correct answer. In scenario A, Tom opens the way to reconciliation after he has been hurt, only to have it thrown back in his face after one week. Then to his horror he watches as Lisa builds a better relationship with a guy she met as a drunken mistake. He is probably going to spend a lot of time in the future wondering what he did wrong.
In scenario B, Frank goes blissfully along for 6 months as Kathy becomes more cold and distant. Then one day she packs up and leaves. Like Tom he is wondering what he did wrong. Then mysteriously Kathy moves in with a new guy the same week she leaves Frank. Suddenly it is all clear to Frank. Now on top of feeling upset and hurt, he feels stupid. He will go on wondering if Kathy had been lying to him for the whole 4 years.
Both are devastating ego breaking situations, but if I had to choose, and in the real world no one gets to choose, I would rather be Tom. It is easier to deal with a the loss of a seven week relationship than with the loss of a 216 week relationship. I would still feel that Lisa had acted duplicitously in accepting the offer to reconcile.
To answer the underlying question. I would rather hear the confession early, than have to figure it out later. As Lisa discovered the confession may not heal the relationship.
Now a return follow up question. Why did the cheating partners in both scenarios get happy endings, while the betrayed partners end up alone or hurt?
FA
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (26 April 2013):
 the question is which boyfriend would you rather be
the one who leaves after finding out right away about the cheating or the one who leaves after finding out about long term cheating?
See if a partner will not tolerate cheating, it does not matter which boyfriend you are if you are leaving as soon as you find out about the cheating.
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A
female
reader, loony10 +, writes (26 April 2013):
loony10 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionthanks a lot for all the answers! some of are exactly on the same wavelength I am, i could have written the responses my self. that being said, i disagree that cheating is cheating. obviously, neither of these women are going to get the best gf of the year award or any award in ethics however, i certainly don't think they are on the same level. Cheating is bad but I think you can take a mistake like that and either learn from it or not. I feel that a man who cheats on his wife, tells her, goes to therapy, genuinely wants to change, and is not unfaithful to her after that one incident is NOT the same as a man who has a mistress on the side for 10 years. One of them was repentant and took the steps necessary to better himself and his relationship. The other did nothing of the sort. Yes they both cheated, they both committed the same act, but their behavior following it is significant to me. There is a difference in intent and behavior.I don't think saying that someone who cheated and confessed is the same as someone who cheated and hid it. That's like saying 2 arsonists who have both burnt a building down are the same, even though one set fire to one building, stopped, and never did it again but the other one keeps burning buildings down every chance he gets. 2 criminals on parole, based on their behavior after the crime, are treated differently. Change your ways, you can live life. Don't, you're going back to jail. To all the people with the opinion that it doesn't matter and cheating is cheating, which one of the boyfriends would you rather be? and don't say, neither, if you had to pick one, which one would you rather be??
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (25 April 2013): Let's say a house realtor rips you off, and you discover all sorts of hidden problems with the house a week after you buy it. Once that happens, do you go back and thank him for lying and allowing you to spend a week in blissful ignorance thinking you bought a good house?
"Lying to shield someone from the truth" is bullshit.
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A
female
reader, Caring Aunty A  +, writes (25 April 2013):
 FACT: Our hypothetical Lisa, Frank and Kathy have all cheated = neither has moral fibre, period!
Question: Who is least deceitful? Answer: Tom
Question: Who is most deceitful? Answer: Kathy!
IMO; the relationship period is immaterial. Yet hiding or delaying the truth; being deceptive as to depriving the other person from making a decision for their own happiness and possibly jeopardise their health in the meantime is criminal!
Thanks for the scenarios – CAA :)
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (25 April 2013):
Cheating is cheating no matter the package and the morals of said package.
I don't think you can really compare it in a way that either scenarios is "better" then the other. Yes, lying on top of cheating is just wrong.
Being drunk is no excuse. It's not like she fell and landed with her face in his crotch. And obviously she wasn't so drunk that she couldn't remember it or the guy as she kept talking to the dude and ended up leaving her BF for him.
She might have owned up to her BF, not for HIS sake, but because SHE didn't want to carry around the guilt.
Again, I don't think there is a right/wrong but a wrong/wrong scenario here.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (25 April 2013):
Female A cheats but then tells the truth. She still cheated
Female B cheats and lies.
Are women that cheat of the same moral fiber? Maybe. Is one cheater BETTER than another? NO. Cheating is cheating in my opinion.
To be honest I define cheating as ANYTHING you can’t won’t or don’t tell your partner. It does not matter if it’s sexual, financial, emotional, or mental. If you keep ANYTHING that affects a person from them (such as you spent the rent money at the track) that’s cheating. By lying to the person you are partnered with you are cheating them out of a truthful relationship.
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (25 April 2013):
Hi loony 10,
Interesting question even if it is hypothetical. So often we get real questions posing as hypothetical. In this case the answers have caused me more serious reflection than the question. Back to that in a minute.
Some have interpreted you question to mean, Does confessing your misdeeds make them better or worse? I disagree with the majority opinion (in my experience) that the misdeed is yours and it is unfair to burden your partner with it. I believe that secrets poison a relationship and will cause its dissolution anyway. (as happened in your examples) So the emotional pillow for the betrayed partner becomes a tapestry of further deceit.
On to my other thoughts. Sexual cheating has more relationship breaking consequences than other forms of dishonesty. Many couples will not recover from sexual cheating. Because of the serious results of sexual cheating I am worried about some of the current thinking that cheating is inevitable and sometimes even recommended.
I agree with you that moral fiber is the ability to do the right thing and, to avoid situations where you might do the wrong thing under the influence. Both women in your examples showed a lack of moral fiber by continuing the affairs, even if it was just talking.
A lot of current thinking says that if you are thinking about cheating break up first. That doesn't mean take an affair break. Be honest. An affair break has most of the same effects as cheating.
No one goes into a relationship thinking "let's try this until we get bored" or , "until a better prospect comes along". For a relationship to be what we want it has to last. Lasting means you work at it. It also means you make sacrifices. The most important one being holding yourself to rules that keep you out of situations like you have described here. Be in it for the long haul, don't plan for cheating.
FA
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A
female
reader, raiders +, writes (25 April 2013):
 Cheating is cheating, this just describe the character of the person, if the relationship was in trouble they should have called it quits before the cheating started. It really doesn't matter if this was a long time affair or a 10 minute parking lot affair. The affair is what defines the person, now coming clean or not after being unfaithful is just an side effect to the cheating.
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A
female
reader, R1  +, writes (24 April 2013):
 Cheating doesn't make you a bad person it's just evidence that a relationship isn't working and there is often fault on both sides. Women rarely cheat for sex it is normally because they are not happy in there current relationship.
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A
female
reader, queenadelaide +, writes (24 April 2013):
I don't think Lisa's actions were all that bad.Yes, cheating was awful. We all agree on that. But it was a sympton of a broken relationship not a cause. She confessed straight away presumably to ask for forgiveness and work on their struggling relationship. Which I think shows strength of character and integrity. Owning up to screwing things up is not easy!When she realised that she had feelings for the other guy she made a call to end things with her bf because she realised she couldn't give him what he needed. So she did right by him. Whereas Kathy lived a lie, wasn't strong enough to confess and showed complete disrespect for her bf.On a scale of screwing up, where 10 is seriously f***ing things up. I'd give Kathy a 10 and I'd give Lisa an 8.
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A
male
reader, Serpico +, writes (24 April 2013):
You have two moral issues here, one is fidelity, the other is honesty.I would say Lisa had a moderate breach of fidelity (1.5 months is really not that long of a "relationship"), and had no breach of honesty because she was honest about it.Kathy I would say had a severe breach of fidelity (6 year relationship, continues cheating night after night) and a severe breach of honesty because she continuously covered it up. I do not think Frank's transgression is relevant here. He was honest about it, she accepted it, and her's was a full two years down the road. If she didn't want to accept it, she had her chance to leave when she found out. I don't see them as linked, but if Kathy does that would speak even more to her lack of moral fiber.Ergo, I would say Kathy's transgressions are much more morally corrupt.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 April 2013): The one that had the continuous affair stringing the partner along I'd rather someone just tell me they had cheated so I could make a decision to stay or leave rather than be used and betrayed. It's more planned when its a affair because they set it all up
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A
female
reader, loony10 +, writes (24 April 2013):
loony10 is verified as being by the original poster of the questioni'm asking for arguments sake. i personally think it's different as one person was upfront with their partner so their partner could move on with their life and try and find someone else. the other one just kept it so the other partner didn't even have the chance to make a decision.
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A
female
reader, person12345 +, writes (24 April 2013):
 Why does it matter? Yes one person is more honest than the other, but they both behaved badly enough to end the relationship so in the end, it doesn't matter and both hurt their partners.
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