A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I have a friend. She’s like a sister to me. I’ve known her since she was born, which is 6 months after me. Our moms were best friends and they were both single moms. I had no father and her parents were divorced. For years I’ve thought that she has a serious problem, but her mother didn’t want to talk about it and neither did my friend. Things got progressively worse over the years. We’re in our mid-thirties now. I’ve been asking her from time to time really gently to see a shrink, but she refuses (no time, no money, “feeling great”…).She only had one ambition in life – to find a boyfriend and later on to get married. Needless to say she’s been chronically single for most of our lives. Apart from one official relationship that ended after 10 months, she kept repeating the same recipe: ignores, in her opinion, ordinary guys, falls for rich/well known (I’m not joking, she works in show business so she gets to meet from time to time some “interesting” people) sometimes even married and then interprets their politeness and general interest as something special, personal, romantic etc. that should be leading somewhere (not that one or two weren’t interested in one night stand). She becomes ecstatic and when she realizes that it’s over (never actually that it had never been) she falls into depression.Ever since I’ve known her, she liked retelling her life, repeating the same stories over and over again, in the same order, with the same choice of words (comas and full stops!). Even as the years passed she kept the same patterns. I noticed that she always liked to know my schedule so that she could call me/come by when I’m alone and can have me, or rather my ear, to herself. After having this kind of conversations with her I feel drained. Over the years I realized that I’m not the only vent she had. There was her mother and some other friends as well (most of them ditch her after a while and she finds some new ones). Incapable of resolving inner or outer conflicts, strong emotions … she would immediately call her mom or me any time, several times in one day (sometimes even at 3 am!). As we grew older, I got a job and when I began a relationship with a man whom I’d marry a few years later, I couldn’t ignore how weird the situation had been. She was happy for me, but she hated the fact that I became less available (and that there was now someone else answering my phone at 3 am).I adored her mother, but she was always trying to make me feel responsible for her daughter, my friend. When she died, I realized she was doing the same thing to some other of her daughter’s friends. OK, she wasn’t a good mother, she couldn’t handle her, couldn’t say no, but she was well in her seventies and she still kept paying her daughter’s bills! This was also a subject we could never discuss.Anyway, now that her mother’s dead (mine died when I was 21) things got much worse. She won’t see a shrink, she keeps calling me almost every day (and paying huge bills since I moved to another country in the meantime) with the same stories (comas and full stops) about men and life. I noticed also that she started drinking (we never used to drink alcohol), taking bromazepam (“to calm down”), combining the two… I don’t know what to do. She obsesses over people and events, is mildly depressed but says she’s fine and from time to time has violent emotions and acts on them (two years ago she was angry with her mother and she grabbed her by the shoulders and shook her!) .What’s wrong with her? Is there anything I can do to make her understand how much she needs to see a shrink? I love her but I’m afraid if I continue to be her vent she’ll never seek professional help. She’s too egocentric to be suicidal, but you never know… On the other hand I can’t take it anymore. Her energy is absolutely draining me.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 May 2014): Hi, I'm the reader who suggested your friend is looking for her father in men.
I'm sorry, I didn't know that you were already having counselling, so my suggestion won't work!
Funnily enough though, I do know quite a lot about co-dependency and I was going to suggest to you to find out more about it, but I didn't want to 'project' my issue onto your situation.
I had a friend very, very similar to yours but we met when she was around 30 and then after about 15 years I just couldn't take anymore. I realise now I had been brought up caring for others both to make up for my mother's emotional inability to do so and in order to feel 'valid' myself. It had become my friendship 'style' and my real needs were totally negated all the time. I had to learn why I became co-dependent and increasingly learn to get in touch with my needs and desires and to express them to others.
With the friend I mentioned, she was also working in showbiz (!) and she sounds so similar to your friend it's unbelievable. I made friends with her at evening class and over the years, despite many problems of my own and being codependent, my life really flourished. She was in a similar situation to your friend in that her parents gave her regular handouts - not enough to become independent, but enough to stop her from having to really take responsibility for herself. She was very, very resistant to counselling and generally resistant to anything other than male attention. It was incredibly difficult to try to help her - she started drinking a lot and would have 'affairs' with male actors etc in which she was so obviously being used for sex, but she would read a whole future into the situation and scare them off. She became increasingly uptight, to the point that her tension wore off onto me every time we met - and then it increasingly turned to strange and angry behaviour towards me, She would do things like deliberately try to humiliate or undermine me in public and she had absolutely no sense at all of when it was inappropriate to discuss her problems.
I tried and tried to reason with her about her behavioiur - I got worried when I realised one day that in the 15 or so years I'd known her, her 'work' in showbiz had only amounted to a very few acting stints with very small productions and a few temping jobs working as an administrator. She'd had a job at one stage for three days a week, nice colleagues, very flexible hours and great holidays etc, but she'd given it up because she couldn't cope. I did, after several years, manage to get her to see a psycho-dynamic counsellor, only by telling her how great my own counsellor had been. She went and immediately developed a crush on him and then stalked him for several years after they'd met.
She would copy me in so many ways that it was strange. My other friends simply did not understand why we were even friends - they found her totally weird. Like you, I felt very protective of her and thought "she's more than that". But I realised that the "more than that" was actually a small child who had never grown up and was now increasingly RAGING at the world because she couldn't get her own way in things. That and I actually think she was mentally ill.
In any case I tried several times to talk to her about her behaviour and she became increasingly resistant and in denial about it. She honestly would talk about world famous actors like Brad Pitt being "available" when I pointed out she kept going for unavailable men who were only using her. And I stopped introducing her to my friends and inviting her to parties because she would very inappropriately begin the 'stalking' procedure on some of my male friends - very, very creepy.
For me, I decided to increasingly 'let her go' because it was the only way. I knew she needed psychiatric help and I knew that I was somehow enabling her, by my very presence in her life, to feel like she didn't need it. It was as if, because I was her only stable and successful friend, I 'authorised' her behaviour.
And it made me vow, for the other person's sake AND my own, to never get into a 'care-taking' role again. Sometime later I came across co-dependency as a condition described on the internet. I realised I really needed support in sorting it out so I went to get counselling to help me to do that. It's kind of an addiction to caring for people but it's actually a way to stop yourself from being hurt and rejected. I guess you know that already. I just wanted to say that I think you are on exactly the right track but, given that the "lying" about counselling to try to not scare her suggestion is not going to work out in this case, I fully agree that you need to be much more precise, even very strict with her about her behaviour and about getting psychiatric help. Boundaries are so very key to overcoming co-dependency, as is getting in touch with your own needs and stating them. When you state your needs and boundaries, she will eventually see she cannot manipulate you as before and this could help her to face up to the fact that she needs psychiatric help. Yes, you were definitely set up from a young age, no two ways about it. But it's up to you now to not keep doing that to yourself.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you all for your replies!As a female reader anonymous said, she does indeed looks for her father in her future husband, or rather tries to find someone who’ll put her dad to shame (rich, well known) and take the wheel out of her hands.I needn’t lie regarding my own counseling, since I’ve been seeing a shrink for over two years now. She knew that from the start and I’ve often talked positively about it. But, you know, it’s okay for people with problems and there’s nothing wrong with her. Or nothing that she can’t handle. The fact is, she won’t completely deny that there’s a problem, she’ll agree only superficially so that she’ll come off better and make us all leave her alone. She wants to discuss men and what is the thing she did wrong, how could she be better next time so they would stay (blunt truth: learn skills to be a better manipulator project an image and make them stay). She won’t touch the subject of her relationship with her mother. Their relationship was perfect! The last few times I saw her mom, I was devastated by how old she had suddenly grown, how frail and tired (I mean tired of the life she had). In my friend’s head: “she was full of life!”, “we talked all the time!”, “she had plans!”…I dare not tell her what her mom had been telling me…RevMick said that I had been setup from the start. Even though it sounds a bit harsh, it’s the truth. Ever since we were little I was told by her mom to take care of my friend. (has she eaten? is she wearing socks? she’s upset, please talk to her…) I’m less than a year older. On some level she realizes how weird it is and she tries to ease me into it me by boosting my ego: “I trust your judgment”, “I’ll do as you say”, “I don’t know what I would have done without you”. I love her and I feel sorry that she (subconsciously) tries to manipulate me and it scares me. And I wonder if she does the same to others. Another thing that scares me is what one anonymous reader said: “You’re in your mid-thirties, you’re not kids anymore and options are getting narrower.” I think my friend knows it, or at least feels it and it’s making her even worse, more dependent than ever.Recently, I found myself in the company of some other people who know her and their comments were spot on. This disproportion between the way she sees herself and the way other people see her, saddened me. People tend to oversimplify, she’s most of what they say, but she’s much more than that.So_Very_Confused, thank you so much for your kind words. My mom did the best she could. I’ll try to be more direct and precise with her. It’s better than uninstalling an application from my phone we used to use to talk for free. Yes. It did get to that point. I’ve been reading a lot about codependency lately, since I’ve noticed that with people I grew up with (that I sort of "inherited" like family or family friends) I tend to have boundary problems. It’s more difficult for me to say no to them than to others (new friends, or the family by marrige). But that’s another story…Thank you all once more.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (15 May 2014):
 As a woman who was VERY close to a "smother mother" and did not grow up until my mom died at 35 and my dad refused to baby me the way my mother had (MOTHERS that LOVE TOO MUCH are sometimes harder to cope with than mothers that parent properly) I see your friends problem. the only thing that made me get help was no one to do it for me... MOM was gone and dad refused....
Sadly there is not much you can do to force your needy friend to get the help she needs. She is just not ready.
I would say that the best thing to do if you guys are now Long distance friends (you said you moved to a different country) is set some phone/text guidelines with her
"you can call me between 10 am and 10 pm and I will answer the phone... anything before ten am or after 10 pm will be ignored" NOT that you will go to voice mail and I will get back to you at a later time. Just flat OUT IGNORED. then if you can, turn your phone off or on silent and ignore it for those times.
You have been more than accommodating with her but it' seems you two are wrapped in a co-dependent relationship. that is no longer meeting any of your needs (not saying you are co-dependent just that this relationship feeds her CD needs)
I also want to extend my deepest sympathy to you for losing your mom at such a young and vulnerable stage in your life. Your mother clearly left you with outstanding mental health and life skills. Kudos to both of you and your mom.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (15 May 2014): Weird, egocentric, ill… she needs help. I’m not a shrink and I can’t (nor would I like) to label anyone, but she has a huge problem.
I don’t know anything about her mother, but from the little you’ve said it seems as though she didn’t know how to control her since she was a kid (baby probably) and she tried (and succeeded) to organize the surroundings (you, family, other friends) to accommodate her daughter’s whims. Not her real needs. She needed to be guided in the right direction, not have all her wishes fulfilled.
The fact that she hasn’t changed over the years (grew more mature) is worrisome. As I understood, it got worse since she lost her primary source of financial and emotional support (her mother). Please do not take her place. Even if it sounds improbable to you, she may start seeking more than emotional support. Her obsession with finding a boyfriend/husband seems so unhealthy. Is she looking for someone to take care of her? Someone who could take on all of her problems? Someone rich (or well of at least), someone well known, because she’s not? If she found herself in financial troubles, wouldn’t she reach out to you? What then? Would you take on that responsibility too?
Our problems grow bigger as we grow older. It doesn’t surprise me that she started drinking and taking meds. Life is hard and can even be very cruel sometimes. If she’s alone as you say much of the time, obsessing over a potential mate, well no wonder she seeks some sort of relief. It’s terribly wrong and will make her feel only worse.
You’re in your mid-thirties, you’re not kids anymore and options are getting narrower. On the other hand, you’re still young and anything’s possible. If she wants kids, well there’s another big problem. I don’t even want to go there.
She’s a part of your family and you love her, but you can’t help her the way a professional would. Don’t cut her off completely, just find a good measure. If I were you I would continue advising her to go and see a shrink. I know how unpleasant it could be, but that’s the only thing you can do.
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A
male
reader, RevMick  +, writes (15 May 2014):
 Hi,
I think it's time to cut the apron strings. You've been set up all this time to be a replacement mother for your friend.
Some people don't seem to have the switch in their brain that tells them to change their behavior if they want different results.
Your friend will continue to call on you with the same nonsense until the day you die, unless you cut ties or tell her in no uncertain terms to wise up.
Why would she need to pay for a shrink, when she has one right on the end of the phone in you?
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 May 2014): It's clear your friend needs professional help.She is totally dependent on you.But the good thing is that she has and is at least trying to lead something like a normal life. It seems bad, but it could be a lot worse.She's not had the nurturing, from her mother, that she needs in order to have become a fully rounded adult. This is the core reason why she can't stand on her own two feet. There will be certain things that she needed, that we all need, as kids, which she just didn't get in emotional terms - maybe consistency, maybe clearer boundaries, things like this which are vital in a child's developmental stages and which allow them to flourish as adults.The absence of her father means that she will be also projecting an ideal onto a man who will come and fill this massive, gaping hole that she has but which is very hard for her to identify - if you've never had a loving, caring Dad you can only imagine what it must be like. So she has a very abstract idea of what it is to be loved by a Dad and is almost randomly looking for signs of this in pretty much any man that she comes across. But again, in terms of her psychology growing up, it will mean that she hasn't had the things that she needed to fully develop - a father's presence can be very reassuring, sometimes a father's discipline is needed in order to set healthy boundaries. Sometimes the father is needed to support the mother so that she can be a great parent to her kids. Without this support it's hard for any mother to be there for her children in emotional terms.Lack of boundaries, generally and in any aspect of someone's life, indicates some sort of abuse. And abuse can also happen through emotional neglect. Neglect is difficult to spot, it gets covered over. It's also something that parents may not even realise they are 'doing' to children, so it's very dangerous.In your friends case her boundaries are very blurred/non existent. It suggests to me that there has been a mix of care and neglect on her mother's part. The two can be interwoven so that, from the outside, someone might look very cared for but actually be emotionally deprived. It happens a lot with children of wealthier families but is abundant in all families to an extent. It sends a very confusing mixture of messages to the growing child about whether they are independent/dependent. This is what has happened to your friend.If you set boundaries and talk to her about seeing a counsellor she will simply resist, if it's done in a way that pressures her. She is extremely resistant because, underneath, she will be very, very frightened, but she is also out of touch with a lot of her emotions, despite probably seeming 'emotional', so she won't realise she is afraid. So I suggest that you boost her confidence about going and just make it seem normal. I'd suggest that you tell a white lie and say that you are seeing one and it's wonderful. And that you've also joined a support group for people who have problems maintaining long-term relationships, something like that. This would, I think, be better than pressuring her or making her feel even more scared. The task I think is to 'normalise' seeing a counsellor and make it seem like a wonderful thing. You are obviously a role model of some sort to her - friends like this tend to copy their friends because they don't know how to live their own lives - so, for your friends' sake, I'd say invent a wonderful counsellor and talk about how you wish you'd done it before.
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