A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:Was this girl a virgin?This may seem like an odd question, but I assure you that the answer is important to me (I won’t get into the reasons why it is important). I have my opinion of the answer, but I’m “just a guy”. I would be very grateful for any thoughts from a Cupid Auntie or female passer-by with good memories. I want you to know that I loved this girl and the answer means a lot to me, and I’m not asking because I “want” her to be a virgin.I met this girl and we were immediately attracted to each other. We were both 23 years old. I had only known her for a week and we really enjoyed each other’s company. It was probably obvious to anyone that we were falling in love. On Friday night after work we went to an “Oktoberfest” type of event with some friends. We were there several hours, danced and drank some beer, but we definitely were not drunk. We left and walked to my apartment to get my car to drive her home. It was a beautiful evening. We had our first kiss on a park bench. At my apartment, we started making out on the sofa, she did not protest my increasingly roving hands. We made out for a long long time, well over an hour, maybe even two. Then I asked her if she would go in the bedroom. She said, “Yes”, without any hesitation. Once in the bedroom, I hesitated at the foot of the bed and said, “I don’t want to get you pregnant.” She fired back, “I’ll nail the first guy who gets me pregnant!” and gave a little laugh. I sucked in my breath, shocked I guess. But she saw my reaction and quickly said, “No, I’m on the pill. The doctor gave me the pill because my periods were giving me cramps.” We undressed and made love. I rolled off her and we lay on our sides, face-to-face with our arms around each other. In a few minutes she went to sleep. I lay there not sleeping, I was so excited. It did not take too long and I caressed her and she woke up. We made-out and then made love again. We held each other for a long time. She did not spend the night, because her (female) room-mate would have known that she had spent the night with me.What is the likelihood that this girl was a virgin?How likely is it that a virgin would have sex on her first date with me?How likely would it be that in a situation like this a virgin would only show willingness and not give any indication whatsoever, neither spoken nor by body language that she had never been entered before?How likely is it that a girl who had just given her virginity would shortly fall asleep in the arms of her lover?Was this girl a virgin? Thank you very much.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (16 September 2015): *** I am the original Poster ***
Thanks to all of you for your comments. Especially CindyCares for her fine detective analysis. My verdict is that you agree with my conclusion. Thanks.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 September 2015): I can not imagine she was a virgin. I had no blood too, but the pain was pretty strong, and on a first night it didnt even happen. So, I can't imagine that she didnt show any sign of discomfort. I personally hated this process, I had no pleasure, just pain and wanted it to be over.
The fact that she fell asleep is normal.
About first date, sex being a virgin. Women loose virginity sometimes on a one night stands, so called offers to be " friends with benefits" , under so many different circumstances. Don't be surprised about that nowadays.
But I really don't think she was a virging only based on a fact that she didnt show any signs of discomfort, which in my case was significant.
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (15 September 2015):
 We can't possibly know, but I would guess at NOT a virgin. Why? Because women are usually up front about being a virgin if they are, because they're not ashamed of it like men are.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (15 September 2015):
 I'd be curious too to know why you want to know if this woman was a virgin , and what difference does it make after 7-12 years , but... I suppose I can survive if you won't tell us :)
Anyway, FWIW, no I don't think it's likely she was a virgin.
Why ? First, because she would have said something before doing stuff, wouldn't she ? I mean, true, some girls do not bleed at all at defloration- but some instead bleed somewhat, and some bleed like fountains, and before you try you never know which one you will be, so you don't want the poor guy thinking that you have some mysterious disease or making a horrible mess of his brand new silk sheets.... so you are going to give him some warning, it's instinctive I think.
Ditto for lack of experience or lack of response, you don't know if the first time you'll do what he likes or what you are supposed to do or what he expects you to do, so instead than letting him think, nice girl but lousy lay, one would normally say : This is my first time.
Second, because of lack of any verbal or non verbal indication of virginity . Again, true , it does not have to hurt like hell, often the hymen has been ruptured already, but still there's a difference from not feeling too much pain and not feeling even any little discomfort at all . Often the sensation would warrant a little yelp or a gasp or a flinch at least. If nothing else because it's a very new, weird sensation, it's rare that one can have so much self control to assist totally stonefaced to her own defloration. And it's also rare, I would think, that, even if the hymen is gone, the man can just slide in like a hot knife in a pat of butter. As relaxed and eager one may be,most probably her muscles will retain at first a teensy weensy bit of tension , which the partner can perceive .
As for the falling asleep thing, that no, I would not count it as a sign, that varies with people. Some times after a very exciting, very emotional something ( winning a competition or a game, or the night of your wedding .... )you feel so drained of physical and mental energy that you just fall asleep like a baby.
I have a comment about the condom thing. Two in fact . The first, I don't know if it would be so logical to assume that a woman who never had intercourse, also never had done other sexual acts. In fact, it is counterintuitive, seen as the "natural " progression, confirmed by tons of young DC posters, eems to be Hand Job- Blow Job- Intercourse. BJ way before than PIV . ( I am not saying it's the "right" sequence , it's just what they do, apparently ).
The second: OP, what do you mean " of course this would be seen as highly irresponsible TODAY "? All this happened when you were 23 , so 7-12 years ago only - and it was seen as highly irresponsible even then ! We are not talking about the 70's when people did not know about AIDS. We are talking about , at worst , 2003 , and everybody in the Western world was very conscious of the health risks involved. This not to point fingers at you, you were 23, age at which generally one feels immortal, and you have been no more imprudent, I bet, that tons of other people including us DearCupiders.
But, please, do not blame it on " the times " or " the culture " because they have got nothing to do with your personal choices.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 September 2015): Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. You have made a lot of good points. I know this is an unusual question. I will clarify some things as some of you have suggested.
By sex, I mean having intercourse or in Tisha’s terminology, PIV intercourse. By virgin, I mean a man or a woman who has not had PIV intercourse; they may have had plenty of kissing and/or hot & heavy petting, but had not “gone all the way”. In my time and place, giving or “losing” your virginity was kind of a special event in your life. And if a man or woman had not had intercourse, it was unlikely that they had had oral or anal sex.
The question of her virginity or her past did not enter my head at the time. We did not ask each other about things we had done in the past, this was the beginning of a love affair and the past would not have mattered to us. I was not a virgin myself, but had little sexual experience. I was not looking for a virgin to put a notch on my belt (neither then nor now). I was not sauve and debonair, and she was not desperate; we were two ordinary people falling in love. Definitely, neither one of us was drunk or under the influence, and she wasn’t any more tired than I was. Even though we had known each other for only a short period of time, we had a high degree of confidence in the integrity of each other and we did not use condoms; the trust proved to be well founded. Of course that would be viewed as highly irresponsible today.
I want to assure you as much as I can that I am not trying to be coy or ambiguous. I am not in an argument with a partner as to whether or not she was a virgin. You may well wonder why in the world I am raising this question now. I cannot get into it, except to say it is an honest question and there is a reason why I raise the question now. I realize of course that we cannot be absolutely sure but I would just like a woman’s perspective on my conclusion.
My conclusion is that this woman was probably not a virgin. I do not think that her being on the pill helps to answer the question. There was no blood or messiness following our intercourse. I reached my conclusion by taking these three clues together: (1) I think the majority of women would not offer their virginity on a first date, no matter how much love she felt for her man, (2) she gave no hint of apprehension or cautiousness at my entering her, verbal or otherwise; I think most virgins would do that, and (3) she was relaxed enough with me to sleep shortly after, whereas I would think that a woman’s first act of intercourse would generally generate enough excitement that she would not have slept for a while after.
So my conclusion now is that she was most likely not a virgin this first time we had sex. What do you think?
Thanks once again for your replies.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1  +, writes (14 September 2015):
 One other thought. why weren't condoms used? You had known each other one week, even if she had not had PIV intercourse before, and believed that you hadn't either, and she was on oral contraception as means to manage her dysmenorrhea, that didn't remove the risk of sexually transmitted infections.
Why wouldn't you or she have insisted on a condom as a means to avoid STIs? That would have been the common sense move of someone who was sexually active and responsible. How much beer had you ingested over what time? And how much did she weigh?
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A
female
reader, RubyBirtle  +, writes (14 September 2015):
You say that you were both 23 when this happened, yet your age-group is stated as 30 - 35. Why are you pondering about it all this time later?
Is this woman now your wife/long term partner and are you wondering whether she's been honest about her sexual past?
From what you post I can't see any firm indicators either way. It doesn't sound too unlike my first time - except I used a condom.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (14 September 2015):
 I couldn't ever answer definitively, but I very highly doubt it.
For most women, losing virginity is a momentous thing, and on a first date for her to head straight to being sexual as a VIRGIN is something not to be seen unless she was blackout drunk or something like that.
Think of your first time. The drive may be high, but that awkward, heart-pounding inexperience always shows. She *knew* how to move, and she was comfortable with how YOU move.
Even the virgin with the highest sex drive may know some things, but we also expect discomfort, even though some people are pleasantly surprised to have had their hymen broken by incidental things as a kid (horseback riding, incorrect tampon usage, gymnastics or other injury). To plunge headfirst into a FIRST sexual encounter is very unheard of.
Google search "First time losing virginity stories" and you'll see a common refrain. It's awkward, for most there's some pain, it can be messy because of blood, and the best experiences are planned with someone who means something to a woman.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (14 September 2015):
 It's true not all virgins bleed. Some have their hymen broken in horseback riding, or tampon usage. I never used tampon and even being sexually active for 15 years and I don't know how any girl could feel comfortable using them. I screamed in pain at childbirth. Some women don't know they are pregnant until it pops out in a public bathrooms, though very rare cases indeed. This shows the diversity of women's anatomy down there. It's very common that all virgin girls would say first time sex hurts like hell. It would be very unusual for a virgin girl to say nothing at all about her first time experience. If she's comfortable with doing it with you, she should be making remarks about how it felt, and not feel ashamed that she's a virgin at 23. She's an open person and confident too. About her reason for using birth control pill, it's for her cramps, not because she's having sex regularly. She's not having sex everyday but she has protection in case she needs it. She sounded too comfortable and too trusting that you would cum in her and not get pregnant. That doesn't sound like she is a virgin.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (14 September 2015):
What's the likelihood that this woman was a virgin? Well, she sounds comfortable enough sexually, so she could have been sexually active without having had penis-in-vagina sex before. As in, she could have done everything else but that. But as we weren't there and you apparently didn't ask at the time or know her well enough to have a good grasp on that, it's kind of guess work.
How likely is it that a virgin would have sex on her first date with you? Well, as I mentioned in the last paragraph, she could have been having sex without intercourse in the past. When you say "virgin," do you mean by that someone who has had no sexual experience (perhaps some kissing aside) or just someone who has never had penis-in-vagina sex, thought they may have had oral or anal sex?
I guess you may need to define what you mean by "virgin" and "sex" just to ensure we are all answering the same question.
Okay, back to the how likely would she be to have penis-in-vagina (PIV) intercourse with you? Well, you could have been super hot and super smooth and she was just waiting for the right moment. Or she was drunk though she hid it well. Or she was not a PIV intercourse virgin but thought, what the hell, he seems nice enough and we had a good time.
The entry thing, well, that gets back to the PIV vs other types of sex thing. She may well have had anal sex or oral sex or manual sex in the past. She may have been very turned on, she may have had a huge crush on you and didn't want to let you down, she could be someone who just was waiting for the right moment and it happened.
How likely would she be to fall asleep? Well, it could be fabulous lovemaking, or it could be the beer, or it could be the dancing, or she may not have had much sleep the night before, or it could be any combination of the above.
Was this girl a virgin? Well, she may not have had PIV sex before but she does seem comfortable sexually so perhaps she'd done other things and just relaxed enough for that PIV intercourse thing to happen. Or she could have had PIV intercourse before but only for a minute or two and it just didn't work out at the time.
Was there some unwrapping of a virginity thing going on here? Was this your first time having PIV intercourse?
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (14 September 2015): I very much doubt it is my answer.
A virgin would be very hesitant and would ask you to go slowly with her. It may even be difficult to enter her without a few attempts first.
So unless she was a very overconfident lady where nothing fazed her - I would say No she wasn't a virgin.
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