A
female
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:I work in a male dominated industry. There are a number of subcontractors we work with on a regular basis.Last week one of our subcontractors sent a couple of guys out to work on a project. I'm familiar with them all as they come several times a week, but certainly not to the point where I'd consider any of them friends. One of the guys headed into the shop and solicited a hug from me. Fine, whatever, hugs are cool. But instead of a casual hug, he grabbed me and squished my boobs up against his chest to the point where it was downright painful. He then commented that it was probably way better for him than it was for me, then asked whether I had kids. I said yes. He said "I would've guessed no, because you know, firm." Obviously referring to my boobs. I didn't know what to say, so I joked along. The more I thought about it though, the more upset I became. He clearly wanted the hug just to cop a feel. And who does that? He's not even some young guy, he is a fully grown man. I told my boss about it. He was shocked and upset and told me to call our subcontractor and tell her (female owned business) what happened and never to send him back to our shop. So I did. She was surprised and said that she has never received any complaints. I stressed that I was not trying to get anyone fired but that he needed to know that was not ok. Here's the rub - I've felt guilty ever since. Why??? I did nothing to encourage this fellow. I was blindsided by the hug request and agreed to it, but in no way was that an invitation to cop a feel or comment on my tits. I have always had problems standing up for myself. But I can't figure out why I feel so horrible that I told his boss. Did I do something wrong?
View related questions:
boobs, my boss Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (16 May 2016):
 :::Putting on my Boss hat:::
I'm in the construction industry.
I see nothing wrong with the way you handled this. Almost exactly by the book. Well done!
:::putting on Dad Hat::::
As for hugs my personal opinion is Capital H Hugs (side by side) are for co workers and strangers. Capital A hugs (leaning in, face to face) are for Family and close friends. Capital I hugs (face to face , full body)are for intimate partners.
A
female
reader, Ciar  + ♥, writes (16 May 2016):
 You did nothing wrong.
When you flex a muscle you seldom use, it can be uncomfortable for days afterward. Same thing applies here.
What you can do is think of a way to deal with these kinds of boundary violations in a way that you get your point across without creating an undignified scene that will haunt you later.
For example:
Him: I bet that hug was better for me than for you
You: I suspect so (deadpan, no smiles)
Him: I would've guessed no, because you know, firm
You: Pardon?
OR
You: Firm?
Him: Yeah, you know you're....
You: My what? (again, deadpan the whole time)
You obviously know fine well what he means, but by playing dumb, not the giggling airhead dumb, but the mature professional 'dumb' that is unaccustomed to being spoken to so rudely that you think he MUST mean something else, kind of dumb. We've all felt a bit silly when we've had to explain a joke to someone we've wanted to impress or in front of a crowd when we were a bit shy. Playing deadpan dumb does the same to him.
...............................
A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (16 May 2016):
 Cindy, I have unfortunately been in the situation of being forced into things I didn't want to, and I can tell you that even if you, when looking back, or hearing the story from someone else, think that it would be such an easy thing to just say no... When you are in the midst of an assault, or a milder offense, you can't just do what you "should" have done. A very common reaction is to try and laugh it away, or just freeze up. It's not logical, but it's instinctual. You try to normalize the situation because you can't, at that very moment, see it for what it actually is. The realization that this wasn't okay, comes later.
Yes, when a guy once dragged me by force into his bedroom, I didn't smile at him, and I fought back and got myself out of his grip. But I didn't storm out of the house. I didn't understand that this is what I "should" have done. Instead I called a friend to come pick me up and didn't mention the episode to anyone, because I had no idea what had happened. It took me several days to realize that this wasn't okay behaviour!
And, when I one time at a party was locked into a bedroom, and then pinned down on the bed with a man holding my hands down and sat on top of me, I didn't scream for help. I tried to laugh it off and pretended that I was game, just so I would get him off me and then ran out of the room. Yet, with several people outside that very room, I didn't scream for help, I didn't even tell anyone what he had just done! Because it took me, again, several days to understand what had actually happened.
So no, to me it is no surprise that it took the OP some time to understand that this wasn't okay, and that she at first tried to laugh it off. Because it's such a bizarre experience that you never wanted to find yourself in, and your brain is trying desperately to see it as something unharmful and friendly, rather than see it for what it actually is. The brain does not want to be a victim. It's humiliating to be a victim. And then when you talk to people about it, you get the victim-shaming.
Like, when a guy I thought was my friend once bit me on my upper thigh, without warning, and bit me so hard I had marks of his teeth and a large bruise, even though I wore jeans at the time! I reported it to the police, and what do you know... the guy at the desk asked me if I was sure he wasn't just in love with me and flirting...!!! And can you imagine, this guy, after he had bit me... I didn't kick him out. Because again, I didn't understand what had just happened. I let him stay the night on the couch! When he tried to enter my bedroom, I screamed at him to get out. But the next day I gave him a hug good-bye. Yes, looking back I knew I "should" have kicked him out right after he bit me, and then I should have gotten myself to the emergency room and report it right away. But again.. it takes time to grasp what has just happened. And you naturally play it down, because you know what people will say "oh, he probably just liked you" or "you shouldn't have ever invited him home" or "you didn't kick him out right away, so that means you probably wanted it".
I know you mean well, Cindy, but this is not about me being a strong viking woman. I am. But when under attack, assaulted, or objectified in other ways, you rely on your instincts and not your logic. Playing it down is a very common way to react, same as freezing. During social experiments, when people are put in uncomfortable situations, I think it was 90% of the people will start to laugh and make jokes about it. And a mere 40% will stand up for themselves, and this only happens when being pushed to their very limits even. Read up on the Milgram experiment, it gives good insight into stress-responses of humans when placed in uncomfortable and distressing situations.
...............................
A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (16 May 2016):
Its two different things to give away a hug, and have your breasts felt up! She agreed to a hug, not to have her breasts squeezed up against him and then have her breasts commented on and judged on firmness!
I also agree to hugs from people I don't know or even particularly like, just to not have the whole debate on "why not" or make a scene. Yes, we girls are raised to not object when men want to touch us up. I hate it, but that's the reality of things. It starts when we're kids and being forced to hug every random family member, even those we don't like. So blame parents word-wide for this.
Agreeing to a hug is NOT agreeing to being felt up. Saying that the OP is responsible herself, to me would be the same as saying a victim of rape is responsible for inviting her to-be rapist home. Inviting home in this case, does NOT equal wanting to have sex. Agreeing to a hug in the OP's case, does not mean agreeing to be felt up and have her tits commented on as a result.
I also left my camera with that colleague. Everyone understands that just because I left the camera with him, doesn't mean I wanted to see his butt. And in every other NORMAL hug, being felt up and have your tits squeezed, and then commented on, is not part of the deal.
...............................
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (16 May 2016):
 Sorry, I beg to differ . The other ladies are reporting occurrences that are like oranges and apples to the OP's case. The anon lady was , basically, assaulted, she never saw it coming. And Chigirl could never possibly have imagined that her colleague was going to take butt selfies with her camera !
But the OP was NOT taken by surprise and she saw it coming. She says that one of the guys solicited a hug. Now, I even checked my thesaurus to make sure this was not some language barrier thing, but it confirmed what I knew, i. e. that to solicit means to ask, beg, require , beseech.
I take it the guy told her " Come on, give me a hug " or similar words . The problem here is not being taken by surprise , the problem is that the OP feels somehow that anybody who asks is entitled to touch her just because they want it , although they have no title for taking these liberties, not being a relative , close friend, lover or anybody who would have a reason to think hugging her is normal.
Her subcontractor's worker who is there JUST to do his job, and not to pay a courtesy visit, has no reason to assume that it's OK to hug her , same as , again, the mail man, bus driver, dry cleaner, gardener and so on and so forth, anybody who is there as a service provider. If they ask for a hug they KNOW they are being cheeky and inappropriate, and way overstepping their boundaries. If they try nonetheless, it's not our job to make it easier for them. And it is not remotely as difficult as you make it to nip this stuff in the bud, as long as one has a sense of personal and social boundaries in place.
Oh just so that there aren't any possible misunderstandings- when I talk about social boundaries, I am not saying that I am a lady to the manor born and I won't be hugged by the butler the chaffeur and the scullery maid.
It's exactly the same with anybody whom I would not be in hugging terms with normally . My dentist does not get to hug me , nor my lawyer nor the CEO of the bank I bank with. Because our relationship is a business and professional one , and does not warrant for public, or private ,displays of affection.
Of course you can say no to an unwanted hug , you SHOULD say no ! It's YOUR body, you get to decide who can touch it , how and when, and if they think you are being prissy or rude or stuck up or whatnot, too bad, tell them to sue you.
One can choose to use humour, a la SVC, to defuse the situation : " No no, keep those hugs for your girlfriend ! ". Personally , I would not bother being so " nice ". These people are tryng to , well, said very elegantly, piss on your head, and I would not let them ( and I never did in similar occasions ). A dry " thanks but no thanks " should do, but I am not against an even dryer " No, don't " or maybe a " Let me first call your boss and see what he thinks about it ".
As for laughing along with the " firm boobs " jokes, ....
Chigirl, you are breaking my heart :) ! " Of course she laughed along, what was she supposed to do " ?? Chigirl, is that really you talking ? ... I would understand if this had came out from the mouth of the OP , who by her own admission always had a problem standing up for herself, and sounds quite endearingly naive ( said with affection, OP, I swear ), at least about why men want to hug women they aren't particularly friendly with, but you Chigirl ? A proud strong fierce independent young Scandinavian ? You are our Viking warrior, Chigirl ! , tell me that you really mean that if some idiot gets to squeeze your boobs, then it's just natural to laugh about it like a good sport and not rock the boat (but changing your mind later on and reporting him ) , tell me that... and I'll have to go and get drunk tonight to drown the shock in alcohol !
Now , just to be thorough, let's suppose instead that the hug was " solicited " but not verbally. Maybe just by body posture, coming forward with his open arms or something,... well, although IMO, that's not
" out of the blue " ( like instead the anon lady and her coworker who pinned her to the wall ) it's a non-verbal warning, but, let's not be finicky, I do agree that it may have taken just two seconds to take the OP by surprise, only...- it also just takes the same two seconds to say, or YELL, " Stop it ! " or " WTF do you think you are doing !".....
This is not being always on guard, this is just Personal Boundaries 101, just the basics, then you build up from there only if needed , naturally there's no need to shoot at flies with a cannon.
Of course there are many women who have a problem with being assertive, or with saying no ,or with knowing in their own mind what it is acceptable and what they won't, I am not saying that it's their fault, whether it comes from their upbringing or their personality.
But, since anything that makes a problem in our life can be worked on, improved, changed, at least partially, tbh I do not understand why ,when people gain 15 pounds they will tear the world asunder to get back in shape, but when they see they have a problem with standing up for themselves and getting respect, they'll just sit there and do nothing to correct it...
...............................
A
female
reader, Anonymous 123 +, writes (16 May 2016):
 You shouldnt have agreed to the hug request. You had the option of saying no but you didnt because you probably didnt know how to handle the situation.
Here's the thing. There's no shame in saying a big, firm NO. If a man who you dont know well enough or dont feel comfortable with asks you for a hug, you say "no". If he tries to force himself on you, that is dead serious stuff and he can go behind bars.
In your case, you allowed him to hug you. What did you think he wanted? Brotherly affection? You werent wrong in reporting him because now he'll know for sure what not to do but henceforth, stop being nice to strangers.
...............................
A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (16 May 2016):
I think you feel guilty because this is yoru first time standing up for yourself and saying "no". You are unsure of the consequences and you want to be a nice person, and you are worried that this will make you seem like you are not a nice person. You feel guilty because you wonder if you encouraged him, despite knowing you didn't. You feel guilty because you told on him, despite him being old enough to know his behaviour was inappropriate.
I felt guilty too, when I once reported a male colleague. This colleague of mine had taken pictures off his naked butt with my camera when I wasn't looking, as a "surprise" for me when I would go through my pictures later on. It nearly got him fired, actually. But you know what.. it wasn't my fault for reporting it, it was his fault for not using his common sense. Same with you. It's not your fault if this man gets fired or whatever. His behaviour is on HIM. If his behaviour was poor enough to maybe get him fired over it, then THANK YOU for telling someone, because this is not a person who should be walking around free to do these things to others.
And of course you just laughed along, what were you supposed to do? Standing up to a group of men who were there, and standing up to him when he surprised you with this "hug", is not something that comes natural to anyone except someone who's already experienced it several times and is always on guard.
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (16 May 2016):
 I had to think about this.... I suck at being negative with people (no you may not hug me) I do better with verbal sparing.
In this case, while YOU made the bad choice to let him hug you (and yes i get why you did it) HE was wrong to take advantage of you.
The best way to cope with this if you don't want to be confrontation is with "humor"
If a man at work that I was not close to (or even a neighbor or a stranger to be honest) I would deflect in this way:
You feel guilty because you are mad at yourself for not knowing how to deflect this bad behavior.
He took advantage of your kindness and youth as a way to cop a feel. HE was inappropriate and reporting it was FINE.
This is how I would have done it:
Inappropriate male: "Hi it's been a while can I have a hug to say hello"
Me: (with a huge smile) "I'd love to but I have to check with my hubby first, I'll get back to you" (turn and walk away)
you could invent a boyfriend if you don't have a hubby... or a girlfriend if you prefer to really shake the idiots up.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 May 2016): You learned your lesson. And you did well to report him. I can't stand people who take advantage of others when they sense weakness (sorry, I am not saying this to offend you, I too have problems setting boundaries).You felt guilty not because you reporting him was wrong, I suspect, but because you didn't react on time when he asked for a hug. Remember that we are all different! We all have different experiences. Some women learn early on how to get rid of unwanted attention. Some guys try to justify their behavior by saying that when they want to hug you/feel you up it's a compliment! They wouldn't hug/feel up just anybody!I was 18 at university when my professor friendly "patted my back" (we were on a bus going on a trip) I instinctively knew that he was checking out if I was wearing a bra. But, I told myself that I am stupid for thinking such a thing! He's my professor, he would never do a thing like that! Long story short, over time he continued to touch me and I couldn't pretend that it wasn't happening. Looking from the outside nothing was wrong, he was just being nice. Funny thing is he was this "nice" only to girls and only to us who wanted to please everybody, had self-esteem issues and were to afraid to react. He would never approach like that any of the popular, self-confident girls. It took all the courage I had to tell him once when he tried to put his hand on my shoulder (it usually slid down from there) that even though I knew that he meant nothing by it (I lied off course), I was not comfortable with him touching me. He was surprised but never ever did it again and kept his distance. I wish I did it sooner but I waited util he was not our prosessor anymore and I knew that he wouldn't be able to "punish" me. Later on I heard stories of him sleeping with students and I could tell that he was literally feeling up the territory looking for potential candidates in each generation. I wasn't flattered. I was disgusted.It's a good thing that you reported the whole thing. I live in a society where, unless there was some violence (a and sometimes event then!), the authorities wouldn't react. There was no one I could talk to that would stand up for me. I have told only some of my close friends who supported me in my decision to tell him in a nice way to leave me alone.Don't doubt yourself! NExt time when somebody asks you something PAUSE before saying yes...
...............................
A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (16 May 2016):
 I'm fully with Cindy.
I think you need to learn to set boundaries. There was no reason to "indulge" him in a hug in the first place.
I would have told him off right away, actually I would have told him no thanks on the hugs - but since the hug happened I would have told him; "way to overstep my boundaries" right away.
HE did take advantage of you being a people pleaser (am I right there?) Someone who doesn't want to offend, so you plaster on a smile and go about business...
And I think telling his boss is OK. But this was a situation that could have been 100% avoided. I'm NOT blaming you here. I understand that you just didn't know what on Earth you should do, that you were stunned by his ornery behavior.
Hopefully this guy will know in the future that he needs to show a little respect for the females he work with and work for in the future. It was a TOTALLY slimy move. (of his).
And that you learn from now on, to nip things in the bud before they go further than you want them to. *hugs* are not cool when they leave you feel VIOLATED.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 May 2016): No you shouldn't feel guilty as he was the one in the wrong. He took advantage of you and you didn't see it coming. He knew what he was doing and deserves everything he gets. What happened to you will have taken seconds and as it wasn't overly aggressive you couldn't be expected to instantly react.'I once had a job in a pub. I went in mentally armoured up to expect to be groped occasionally and would act accordingly. I would swear and be very aggressive with anyone that came near me even slapping a man that drunkenly touched me one day.However when l got a job in an office everything changed. I didn't go into work expecting inappropriate behaviour so was shocked and froze when a colleague pushed me up against the wall. I was rendered speechless and although l pushed him away l didn't do anything until about it until the next day. My mind was all over the place.I'm betting he's done things like this to other women at work and got away with it so good on you for reporting him. No 21st century workplace tolerates this kind of behaviour.
...............................
A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (16 May 2016):
Sorry, but IMO , yes !
He is a guy who , as you say yourself, is not a close friend of yours, or even a social acquaintance, I mean, it's not even like he is one of the regulars at the bar or coffee shop you both patronize. Basically you are in no relatiosnhip whatsoever BUT occasionally a business one, and btw one where you are the boss and he is the employee, or you the client and he the provider of services.
Now, sure he had some cheek asking you for a hug, but...in which books " hugs are cool " indiscriminately, to all and sundry ??!! Do you hug your mailman or the bus driver , even if you see them every day ?.. I would think not. Because it is a business relationship where certain boundaries are not supposed to be overstepped.
Now, ok, HE started first and should not have ( and my guess is that if he had that cheek it's because your friendly demeanour in the past has been a tad too casual and too friendly and let him think that he could totally get away with this stuff ) but just because he does not know or recognize boundaries it does not mean you have to go along with it.
OF COURSE he wanted to cop a feel, what else !? Do you think he felt such a deep, warm,brotherly affection for you that he needed to express it physically ?
Now, you haven't done wrong in reporting him to his boss for inappropriate behaviour, because it WAS inappropriate and if he gets a good stern scolding next time he'll know better than hitting on a client - but, in all fairness, he'd be authorized to think " UH ? WTF ? ". You let him hug you, you let him grab you and hold you , he comments about your boobs and you joke along... he must have thought you enjoyed his attention !
Be sure of your boundaries and do not let semistrangers cross them. Not even to be " nice ". Nice does not mean that any Tom Dick and Harry can come physically close to you .
...............................
|
