A
male
age
36-40,
*etroactive
writes:(Ps. English is not my mother tongue so I apologize for the grammar errors etc..)Hello; It's been more than a year since I started to date my girlfriend (fiancee). Unfortunately I'm in the claws of retroactive jealousy. I guess there is not a single comment left on the internet that I've not read about this problem.I was in a deep (I mean deeeep) depression for the first 3 months where I stopped functioning (I stopped going to work, hours of walking) and lived my life like an automated robot while my mind got tortured in the hell hole that I'm imprisoned.I saw three psychiatrist which are best in their fields. First one concluded that "you will get over it". Second lady acted as if I'm a woman-hater monster and the third one decided that the feeling are so deep now "I may never be able to get over it". Interestingly the drugs that they prescribed worked like a charm (Prozac'fluoxetine') to a point I thought I got over the problem. Unfortunately I noticed that anti depressants are like anesthesia which just prevents you from feeling any kind of pain but when it wears off , the pain just comes back.I'm totally convinced that RJ is a disorder of a kind. So I'll act so.My Symptoms:- Background noise: It is as if someone left the tv open and I can hear it all the time. Ex: I'm shopping groceries and I'm thinking what should I buy next. Meanwhile another sound in my brain playing a script about my girlfriends first night. (How did she felt, how did he felt, what did they talked afterwards, what did she do when she got home, what I was doing on that day etc..). This is a no ending process. It happens while driving the car , chatting with friends, walking home, having shower.. And I don't feel jealous. I just feel a deep sadness.- Hearth palpation: Sometimes my brain (without no reason) just shows me an image or thought so painful for just a second that I have inhale and contract my abdominal muscles to compress my heart. Ex. It is a nice day , I'm with my girlfriend holding hands in the car chatting.Without any reason, it just happens. (It used to be 50 times a day but now I rarely get those)- Infinite solution seeking: Like a bugged computer software that makes non-stop calculations in the background that drains CPU power, My mind tries to change her past . Like as if there is a solution to change it. This really makes me tired at the end of the day.- Fear for my future: I'm so so so afraid that this will be a lifetime struggle. I mean I'm pretty convinced that there won't be a single day that I'll not remember her past. I will always have to fight this.- Triggers.. triggers everywhere: Virgin airlines.. Virgin river.. name of the guys.. movies.. Valentines day? Oh so I should be romantic knowing that 2 years ago exactly this time my future wife was having sex with another man.. There is no escape from triggers. - Reassurance seeking: It's a sign that I'm on stage 3 (I staged my RJ betwen 0 to 4).Stage 0: Before I knew about her past. Normal me.. happy.Stage 1: I'm with her all the time with lots of sex, minor images comes to mind but I can take itStage 2: Background noise starts to work. I'm in a mood of just "constantly mildly sad".Stage 3: I just just can't stop myself. I shout myself to stop it but can't. I have to google and read (Hello Dearcupid). My brain probably thinks I'm looking for a solution and leaves me alone for a while. But after a short while comes the stage 4 (Unless I don't spend alone time my girlfriend) :Stage 4: Booom; I can't work, more reassurance seeking, I'm planning to break up with her then I start to think how awesome she is and life without her petrifies me. But I can't do it. Checking Facebook profiles of her exes, looking in to their eyes, digging to her past. Heartbeat goes faster. I can't do it. I can't live like this. This must end. I love her. She can't live without me, I just want to vanish. Stage 4 may lasts for a while and sometimes for some reason I punish myself (not eating or sleeping for a day) until I make my girlfriend cry. (I don't harm her or say anything bad at all) She just notices I'm ignoring her and avoiding eye contact and forces me to speak what is in my mind. She cries. I feel so bad for her. I feel protective. My brain suddenly decides that she is more important and shuts up. Back to stage 1.Someone please help me.. I beg of you.. for a year I'm seeking for those magic words that will heal me.Treatments I tried:Cognitive therapy: All my psychiatrists tried it.. Will never work on me. At my last breath I won't change my view on sexuality. If cognition therapy would work, I should confidently be able to say "I'm OK my future daughter can have sex before marriage as it is human nature not a big deal". I will not accept it.Exposure therapy: Never tried it yet but I don't think it will work as if I'm kinda in an exposure therapy for a year.EMDR: I'll start EMDR next week.I read some stuff that terrifies me, like this guy who is a 61 years old successful businessman who has everything a man can wish for. Still for 40 years he is living in constant pain due to RJ: -------------------------------------------------" I have struggled with my wifes past for 40 years. If you feel this pain now all I can tell you based on my own experience it will never ever go away."" That is my life. I will not go into the gory details but every time I make love to her all I can see are video playbacks of her with him."" You really have two choices. Find a woman with no baggage or live with it as I have. Both ways hurt. You have to decide which is going to hurt the least. ""After 40 years with her I still cannot get it out of my head. That does not mean I do not love her – I do with all of my heart. I could never leave her and cause her such pain as I know she loves me as much as I love her. But….the elephant remains in the room and it will never go away""The story is a lot like yours. Looking back should I have made the decision to leave her? That is the decision you now face. Sometimes I think that would have been the best course of action for me. She would have got over it. So would I. There would be some regret and remorse for sure but if I had my time again and know what I know now – the anguish and pain this has caused me – that is the decision I would have made. Do I love my wife….I always have and I always will until the day I pop off this planet. Do I wish life had dealt me different cards…every single day of my life I wonder what our wedding night would have been like if we were both “first timers”. I suppose I feel that it is far too late for me to do anything and knowing what I do now I may even have made the same decision. But I think on balance I should have left the realtionship then and looked for someone without all the mental baggage that comes with previous intimate relationships. Forty years of sheer hell and loneliness in a mental prison I created for myself was too high a price to pay."""None of your girlfriends past is your doing. It was hers. She made the decisions and those decisions have consequences. But if you make the decision to stay and continue to a long term relationship then that decision is yours and you must accept the consequences of it. If the thought of her past makes you sick to your stomach now….it will still do so 40 years from now.""Unfortunately it was I that made the decision to ask her to marry me. I thought I knew what I was getting into because I thought that I could get over these issues given enough time. Here I am 41 years later writing to strangers (now my best friends) as my only means of escape from the mental prison I built for myself.""My life has all the makings of a Shakespeare tragedy. I have everything I could materially wish for except the one thing that I wanted more than anything else in the world. The only thing I know I can never have."------------------------------------------------------------I'm an intelligent person, trust me. But "past is past" , "this is what made her the woman you love" or "you are lucky that she chose you" simply doesn't work. This is a deep mental and moral issue that I'm trying to solve with the all neurons in my brain.Do you know anyone who had such a bad case of RJ and got over it? Can you really get over it? Or should I just break her hearth in to million pieces and search for some one(most likely with lower qualities) with no baggage risking the feeling of regret for the rest of my life?I wish some of the RJ posters here from years ago would inform us regarding their current situation.please help me.
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female
reader, mintrablooms  +, writes (26 April 2016):
FYI, if your future son who has as much sex as possible and gets a girl pregnant, there can be consequences for that. Child support, going to court, or even jail if he doesn't pay it. And that's the bare minimum. If your daughter got pregnant, at least it's her body and she can make her own choices on how to handle the baby.
But on the sexual culture, if either of them stay virgins until marriage, won't they feel the same exact way you do? I don't see why you would want that for either of your kids asker.
Anyway, you can break up with your gf and make a new sexual life for yourself, or not. It's not too late.
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (25 April 2016):
 I turn to Yos’s posts on RJ. Here’s one that might serve as an appropriate followup to your post:
"What you have just said about beliefs, morality and love are very typical comments from someone in your situation. I have heard them over and over, and used to think them myself.
I have come to see that they are incorrect. They are a trap. I'll try to explain, it's a bit subtle so bear with me.
First you say that she is a regular church goer and a good and nice person. But you feel that her actions are contradictory with that.
Except that in reality they are not: the world is full of good and nice people who have experiences similar to hers, and unpleasant, manipulative, dishonest people who haven't had similar experiences.
In other words, your belief does not reflect reality. It is an irrational belief. She absolutely can be a good and nice person and have had the experience she had. There is no contradiction. The contradiction is in your head, and nowhere else.
You say it 'belittles the whole idea of love, relationships and giving yourself to someone'.
Except that it doesn't. Love, relationships and commitment are not absolutes, they are in reality messy, complex and full of trials and tribulations. What you are describing is a romanticized, in your word: idealized, version of these things that almost never happens. We don't live in a perfect world, and if you cling to that image you'll just end up having relationships that don't and can't live up to that ideal. No one is perfect, no woman is perfect, you are not perfect; so how can you reasonably expect the perfect relationship?
She is just as capable of true love, a good relationship, and strong commitment, as anyone else. As you are.
What I believe is happening to you is that your rational mind is trying to make sense of the powerful negative emotions you are suffering. You are trying to understand what is going on. And in doing so, you are grasping at straws to explain it. To label it. And through the distorting lens of jealousy you are jumping to irrational, misguided conclusions.
This is also a crisis of self-esteem. You may not be aware of this, or want to admit it, but there are unresolved insecurities somewhere what are amplifying your emotional reaction. It may just be as simple as you being a 'late starter' and your lack of experience with women. It may be more. It also possibly stems from not being an alpha-male: which is hard for us men to admit, although almost all of us are not alpha.
When these combine you get a very typical reaction: yours.
Your mind is trying to diminish her experience, and by proxy: her. You are trying to label her actions as less-than-moral, and her relationship with this guy as inconsequential and 'less-than'. You are taking the moral high ground: saying that you are 'good and moral' and she is 'bad and immoral'. By doing so you regain your self-esteem as well as gain a degree of mastery of the situation. You become the aggrieved party. She is the guilty party. You are the innocent victim.
That makes you feel better about yourself and your role in this situation. And crucially it 'justifies' your negative emotions. But it also leads you into a terrible trap: the trap of unresolvable contradictory feelings and beliefs you now find yourself in.
The reason you can't resolve this, that it's 'driving you insane' is because it's based on these irrational beliefs. It's unresolvable precisely because it doesn't make sense. Holding your beliefs the way you do will always lead you to this contradiction. Because the beliefs themselves are wrong.
The good news is that you are close to the core of what is holding you back from getting over this.
Try thinking about it from this perspective:
"I can change my beliefs and by doing so change the person I am. Having done so I can be happy with my girlfriend, and a stronger and wiser person in the world".
Do you want that? Sounds good, no?
If you do, you have only to change these beliefs. Become the person you will be if you no longer hold them.
For me this was an enormous battle. I clung onto my beliefs (very similar to yours) because I felt they had some deep moral value and partly defined who I was. I was unwilling to drop them because I was terrified of the person I'd become if I really did change. But then at the moment I actually did let those beliefs go, the sense of release and relief was enormous. At that moment I knew I was on the road to recovery. And I also became a better person as a result. Me: version 2.
We are not our beliefs. Goodness and morality come not from judgment and clinging to the past: but instead from compassion and treating everyone as an equal. As a churchgoer you are very aware of this. You can become a truly moral and good person not by judging her: but instead by showing her equal respect to yourself and showing true compassion. You can become that person by letting go of your irrational beliefs about her actions.
There is a technique for doing this. Rather than repeat it i'll give you a link, I highly recommend the process it worked well for me and I have heard similar from others:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14728-handling-irrational-beliefs/
------
That’s a full on copy/paste of Yos’s reply on this thread: http://www.dearcupid.org/question/please-help-me-to-accept-her-past.html
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (25 April 2016):
 "When you discuss with your own brain, the audience always finds you right"
This is spot on.
"So what should I do now? I missed something awesome when I was young"
Realize that you only feel this way because of the belief system you have adopted. You do not need to feel this way, you have a choice. There is no truth to what we should believe in, just like with God. We do not believe, or discredit, based on evidence. We believe based on our own conviction. You stand free to inform yourself of a different truth, one that is just as real as the current "truth" you subscribe to.
You say you are an intelligent man, then surely you are familiar with the concept of theory. When you are to analyze a case, you decide what theory you should use to enlighten the case. If you are a physicist, you can choose for example string theory, or loop quantum gravity. When you are a a political scientist, you can choose between the theory of realism, or liberalism.
The idea that you missed out on something in your past, and that you are now inferior because of it, is based on nothing else but a theory. A theory that says what you have written here before: that women decline in value over time, and that a mans value increases based on number of sexual encounters when he was younger. By this theory, your girlfriend has a low value, and someone else got a better value out of her prior to you, and you have a low value because you didn't have sexual encounters when you were young.
So, a + b = c. By this theory, you should feel robbed and jealous and angry and bitter.
I encourage you to take a look at the other theories out there, and adopt another one, one that makes your life easier and allows you to be happy. Because nothing is hard facts, it is all theory. It's feelings and emotions and opinions we are discussing here, after all. Not universal laws.
My current belief system, or theory, is what I wrote to you before. People are their own galaxies and their own worlds. When we meet them, we get a glimpse of their universe and it can enrich our own. By this theory, we have value not through actions, but through being. We are constant, not decreasing or increasing in value. Its a matter of equality and respecting all humans, really. We all have the same value, so we should all be treated with the same respect. Thus, women are equal to men, and discrimination based on gender, race or functionality is not acceptable.
Lets then look at the hypothesis of a + b = c. By this theory, you should feel at peace. You have been given the opportunity to gaze into another person world, and you like what you see there. You even described her as your soul mate, so obviously she brings you a lot of joy. She is not mean, or cruel, or treats you wrong.
You have the choice to choose what theory you want to live in accordance with. No one is forcing you, well, except for your jealousy and bitterness that loves itself, and wants to grow, just like an addiction to cigarettes. But like you said yourself, just because you can be addicted to cigarettes and give yourself excuses to smoke, doesn't mean the excuses have any truth to them, and doesn't mean you HAVE TO smoke. You CAN quit.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (25 April 2016):
Yes, he must abandon the belief system. When suffering from any OCD, you have the compulsive disorder because you believe something will go terribly wrong if you fail to do what you must do. So there again, you see a belief system that favours the illogical behviour. And when you struggle with any irrational though, whether diagnosed with a condition or not, you also face such false truths about the world. Such as the insecure girls who believe no man will love her unless she looks like a porn star, she justifies her insecurity by blaming men and them watching porn, and it is all mens fault. Rather than see that she is holding up her guard and that maybe she is too afraid to pursue a relationship, so she gives herself these excuses. It is the exact same, I believe, when a girl blames men for watching porn, and when a man blames a woman for not remaining a virgin. It is all a cop out so they will not have to face the truth: that they are the one with the problem, and not the entire rest of the world.
If you ever in life find yourself asking why the entire world is against you, or why all of either gender must have some plot against you, it is time to re-think whether you aren't the one with the problem, and not everyone else. But admitting to faults with ourselves is not easy, it is far more comfortable to blame everyone else.
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A
male
reader, retroactive +, writes (25 April 2016):
retroactive is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm an intelligent person. I can too notice that the lack of experience and "missed out" feeling is the core of my problem. But unfortunately the problem has several inter-connected links with other belief systems and moral values that I've gathered from the past. My brain simply defends itself with excuses same as it does when you try to quit smoking. Your brain wants to smoke and must create a belief system to justify the cravings. Excuse: I like the feel of the smoke in my lungs. Reality: Would you burn a paper and inhale the smoke? So your excuse is just a cover.Excuse: My hand feels empty Reality: But you wouldn't be OK holding a pen instead. So your excuse is just a cover.Excuse: I believe virginity ... (Insert 20 of my excuses that is actually very believable about morals and values)Reality: You would be OK about your girlfriend's past if you had an active sex life on your 20s right? All the reasons you stated about morals and values would vanish. So all your excuses is just a cover.*I believe I'm staring to get in to the core of my problem as we talk here. Thank you for confronting my opinions. When you discuss with your own brain, the audience always finds you right. I even hide this part from my psychiatrists.So what should I do now? I missed something awesome when I was young. I was such an asocial nerd. Now I have this huge sense of regret. So much jealousy for other people who had it. And my girlfriend constantly reminds me what I have lost.The only good side is , I turned my sexual frustration in to motivation to work. (I used to think that only way to have a beautiful girl is to become rich and powerful. I was such a fool). I literally spend my all 20s working hard in business life to impress very pretty girls (seriously that was almost my single goal). And funny part is , I became an (almost) millionaire thanks to this weird never ending motivation. I bought a super fancy sport car and this awesome house. And guess what? Girls didn't give a fuck about it. I was still alone.Having a network of friends , having social hobbies, being a nice and romantic guy. This is what I had to do. I learned it from my current relationship. I matured with her. I was such an idiot in the past *sigh.I'm coming to a realization of my problem but yet I couldn't find a solution. Breaking up with her and dating many other woman would be the best course of action to my RJ problem. But then I would lose her and also I'm kind of person who can only date a girl if I can see a future together.This is so messed up.Any ideas?Do you know that I saw all this coming.. many years ago I googled : "sexual frustration and it's effect on human psychology".
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (25 April 2016):
Ah, I see, chigirl, it’s part of the pathology of the OCD disorder. So the comment about his imaginary future son and imaginary future daughter’s sex lives is more about the disorder than the morality? The OP uses the “morality” of premarital sex as way to cope with the obsessive compulsive thought processes he’s experiencing?
So if the OCD is treated and the belief system is challenged then there might be some peace for the OP. I hope that he can find relief. He’s in his 30s and having treatment for only 9 months. Perhaps it can happen if he is willing to abandon the belief system that sustains the OCD?
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (24 April 2016):
BTW, to Tisha, I believe he is only repeating these lines/lies because they are what builds up his belief system. Without these beliefs, his jealousy will die, as it needs these lies to live. Like with an OCD or like with any obsession.
Feeling jealous, feeling that anger underneath your surface, feels good. It feels comforting. It feeds itself, it wants to grow. When I was working on my anger, I often described my anger as a fire. It was hot and strong, and wanted to consume everything around it. It justified itself through telling lies about life and lies about society. Such as "they had it coming" or "if they didn't want me to be angry they shouldn't have done this or that as they obviously knew it would upset me". The anger would feed itself and I would tell myself all sorts of lies in order to feel that my anger was justified. That I was not a bad person for feeling the way I did, because there was a "good reason" for feeling that way.
Jealousy, or any irrational and destructive thought, works the same way. It feels good! The mind get a sort of addiction to the feeling. It protects you. Rather than being vulnerable, and admit that you have failed, you can blame someone else.
The truth is hard to face, it is something so humiliating that telling yourself lies, and then feel entitled, becomes the solution for many.
The thing I feared the most, and which was the cause of my entitled anger, was this: That if I let myself be vulnerable, I would be laughed at and used. That I would be told I was gullible, and that no one would actually love me for just being me.
The thing I am guessing the OP fears... I am hesitating to write this, because it is touching a sensitive topic for him. But OP, bear in mind that I am just a stranger online that can not hurt you in any manner, nor do I wish to. So I will say what I believe is your biggest fear, and I am sorry if this offends you. I believe the OP's biggest fear is similar to my fear: That if he admits to having missed out on opportunities, that the fault is entirely his own, that he will be laughed at and pointed at, that no one will respect him, and that he will be pitied.
It is just so much easier to blame women for not holding on to their virginities, and say that a future girlfriend should have known he was out there and that it is her fault for not waiting, than it is to admit that he failed at pursuing women in his younger days. Because he is so ashamed of it.
But OP, I will tell you this. When I let go of trying to control everything, and opened up to being taken advantage of, opened up to letting people kick me where it hurts... I did not experience being hurt. I experienced being respected. And loved. And when, one time, a man tried to hurt me because I had let him close, and tried to take advantage of me, I left him. Because I respect myself, and I know that if people do not respect me, I do not have to be with them.
So, if someone were to ever laugh at you, or pity you... You can remove them from your life. Because you do not need them. And when you respect yourself, and accept yourself with all your flaws, you will finally be ready to let someone in to love you for who you actually are, and not someone you pretend to be while you keep all your defenses up.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (24 April 2016):
Hi again OP, thanks for following up.
Women and men are not different, mentally. Only physically. Women remember, and attach as much emphasis, on sex as any man. Part of fighting for equality for women has in a large degree also been about fighting for the right to own our sexuality, the right to have one. For ages men have said that women do not enjoy sex, or are wired differently from men when it comes to sex.
Truth is, we are not different. Recent fights for equality shows this, and as equality in the society grows, new science related to this emerges. Women have the same desire for sex, and the same needs for sex, as men do.
When you are told a lie repeatedly, you start to believe it, and it becomes your truth. You have been told that the first time for a woman is somehow different from the first time for a man. This is a lie. It is made up. The concept of virginity is from men, not from women. Only women were valued or not valued as virgins, back when women were still considered property, and not considered individuals, or equal humans.
A womans virginity matters to her the same way a mans virginity matters to him. She does not attach more emphasis to it than a man does, and it is not more spectacular or special than it is for a man.
Try to remember this: that men and women are the same. Our souls are the same, our spirits are the same, our thoughts are the same. Whatever difference is imposed by society.
"He is probably having sex too right now with another woman". Well somehow I feel like I'm cheated from the past?! I mean she knew I was out there, but she did it anyway. Weirdly it feels like cheating. Maybe she didn't know my name or how I look perhaps but she knew I was out there"
If she knew you were out there, she was a psychic. Do you believe in that sort of stuff? Besides, her ex was right. You WERE IN FACT sleeping with someone else too.
What is EMDR?
I think breaking up with her might be the right choice. I had to end things with my boyfriends too, after being violent. It was not possible to work on myself, and un-do what I had already done. It takes many years to work on yourself and become closer to who you want to be. Being in a relationship where you are constantly confronted with your bad side will only make it more difficult.
The bright side is, that if you after 2-3 years still have feelings for her, and you have worked and improved in the meantime, a new relationship can be formed that will be much stronger, healthier and happier than it is now.
But speaking from my own experience, after a little while of not being in a relationship, feelings fade. And you end up falling in love with someone else. But, if it is meant to be, if you believe in such a thing as soulmates, then you and her will find your way back together.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (24 April 2016):
I just read your followup: "I want my son to have as much as sex possible while my daughter to stay virgin until marriage. The reason? I wish I had known. It's most likely about sexual conduct of society. Throughout history, woman who were virgin assumed as pure and noble while virgin guys made fun of. Or to have sex 20 times, a woman should only open her legs and say "yes" 20 times while a guy should really invest so much resources and time for it. If today I wanted to work as a male escort, I would die of starvation. Why? I believe it is a long topic that to be discussed in my opinion regarding sex , men and women are not equal and can’t be compared equally.”
So this isn’t really about RJ, it’s another post by a guy who is annoyed because he believes he was denied access to casual sex by women.
*Sigh*
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (24 April 2016):
Another post from Yos:
A male reader, Yos Netherlands +, writes (5 August 2010):
Yos agony auntI'm writing this as someone who has experienced crippling retroactive jealousy at one stage of my life, and over time overcome it. Noting that having done so, it's not a permanent guarantee of being free of it, but rather a place where some ongoing effort is required not to fall back. But I am thankfully free of the obsession, the jealousy, and the agony.
It was the most painful experience of my life, and coming through it changed my personality and identity deeply.
I also post frequently here about it, and have read countless accounts, as well as had direct correspondence with numerous men who are suffering from this.
I'll state my overall feelings on this surprisingly common and often horribly crippling and painful condition. In other words, this post is a statement of opinion only, without focussing much on the justification:
- This is different for men and women. Mostly due to the different nature of male and female jealousy, but also for other reasons. This makes empathy about it, and communication about it particularly difficult between the sexes. Neither is 'right', but we are different, and that creates misunderstanding. This misunderstanding can quickly destroy relationships, as well as leading to nasty arguments between men and women on the subject in places such as this site. It also means the majority of women "don't get it" when it comes to understanding why men get so extremely tortured by this. No ones fault, that's just how it is. Men also suffer from this much more than women.
- It's not about how many past partners someone had, or what they did. I've seen this caused by a single kiss. And frequently men in their thirties are in agony over their wives having had perhaps one or two partners before them, which by almost any standard is very few.
- I believe this condition is essentially a form of obsessive compulsive disorder. The victim becomes compulsively obsessed with visualising their partners past sexual activities. These visualised images trigger jealousy and all the standard attendant jealous behaviours: intrusive questioning, distrust, paranoia, imagining things that didn't happen, and discounting positive information whilst over-weighting negative information. As well as mental anguish. The OCD keeps the condition continuous, triggering the jealous emotions and behaviour over and over in a vicious circle. It can also make it very hard to communicate to someone about, as when they are in their obsessive jealous state they are not generally open to much meaningful input; instead being caught up in their own inner turmoil.
- It happens mostly in loving relationships. Jealousy is shadow of love: the more we love, the more powerful the jealousy. It is often triggered at a point when a relationship becomes more committed. This makes the condition particularly tragic: since it is usually damaging what are loving and intimate relationships. ie, the good ones.
- It's not rational. The most common mistake is to blame the person experiencing this. We must understand it's not a choice on the part of the victim, and that the OCD and jealousy lead the rationalising of the situation. The person experiencing this is not choosing to have these feelings and thoughts, no more than the schizophrenic is choosing to become insane, or the narcissist is choosing their delusions. Blame is often flung at the retroactively jealous person, which is the wrong thing to do.
Because it's not rational, 'thinking your way out of it' is not possible. All the thinking does is feed the OCD, it is counter-productive. Each thought just triggers more obsessive visualisation, and more jealousy. This makes talking about it dangerous, since conversation requires thought, and those thoughts can trigger another attack.
- It's nothing to do with morality. As part of an attempt to grapple with their emotions, men frequently resort to 'moral judgements' and labels. Whore, slut, impure, etc. These are an attempt to make sense of their feelings, and to justify the illusions their jealousy is creating. Clutching at straws. But morality is essentially a complex set of rational rules, and as I have said, retroactive jealousy has nothing to do with rationality.
Personally I try to be highly sympathetic when helping men with this condition, but when it comes to moral judgements I will be very direct and intolerant of this specific part of their behaviour. Why? Because at the core of all morality, no matter it's particular flavour, lies empathy, compassion, forgiveness, and a letting go of judgment. Truly seeing the others point of view. Walking in their shoes. It's essential that anyone suffering from this condition understands this, and does not use morality as a weapon to judge, belittle and hurt, which is sadly usually the case.
- As a fusion of OCD and jealousy, this condition is biological in it's root causes, not cultural. Discussions about this often get caught up in cultural trends, double standards, modern society, feminism, etc. These are all dead ends.
In terms of practical advice, I generally believe these things:
- It's best not to go there. Don't ask questions, don't dig into the past. The more that is known, the more mental material there is to obsess over. Each additional piece of information is another log on the fire of the obsessive jealousy. However there are some exceptions: I do believe understanding someones emotional history is valuable in overcoming this, but this precludes the type of factual interrogation that retroactive jealousy seems to almost always lead to.
- Breaking up generally doesn't help. It may stop the immediate pain, but the condition is an inner one, and will return in future relationships, unless that person finds someone they consider 'pure'. Which admittedly does happen sometimes. For this reason I usually try to coach the victim to try to overcome it: it's a life condition and they may as well deal with it right away. On top of that, they're usually in love with the person they're jealous of, and love is precious, rare and worth saving.
- As for the solution, most helpful is activity that teaches us to let go of obsessive thoughts and free our minds. Personally I found tai chi extremely valuable, but similar things like meditation and yoga etc are also very worth considering. There are many other tips and tricks that can help in this vein, such as mantras, visualisations and personal rituals. The aim is to refocus the mind away from the obsessive loop it is trapped in, and onto another path.
Since this is essentially a form of OCD, the standard treatments for OCD are also worth considering. This can include use of anti-depressants. The problem with the standard treatments for OCD is that, like regular treating OCD, they are often not particularly effective. OCD is a powerful disability, and required deep therapy to really beat. It takes time, a great therapist, and great determination. Unfortunately a relationship can often be irreversibly damaged in the mean time.
This is why I believe approaches in the category of meditation and tai chi are better: they can have a more immediate effect which can be felt relatively quickly and bring optimism and hope instead of the state of despair sufferers are usually in. But also this kind of approach is good for another reason:
I believe that in the end, to beat retroactive jealousy, it is necessary to change oneself a deep level. To let go of the embedded beliefs that are fuelling the obsession and jealousy. The (usually childhood-based) baggage that gives us the insecurities and patterns that make us vulnerable to retroactive jealousy. But to literally change who we are is possibly the most scary thing any of us ever have to undertake in our lives. We cling to our identity as the one true constant in our lives. When we realise that we must change, our lives become a sea of confusion and disorientation. We pull back from that cliff and retreat to our comfortable pattern: in this case retroactive jealousy.
This is something therapists often talk about: that the true barrier to being 'cured' is our own desire not to change. We cling to ourselves.
This is why meditation, tai chi, yoga, and the like can be effective. Because at their core they focus on the realisation that there is no 'I'. That our identities are an illusion and that by letting go of that illusion we can set ourselves free. We can free ourselves from the painful cycles of life, from 'samsara' as the Buddhists call it, and become at peace with ourselves. This is the prime objective of meditation.
The way out of retroactive jealousy requires a conscious choice: to choose to become someone who does not care about our partners past. But to make that choice means that we must become a different person: namely the person we would be if we did not care. It’s that fear of change that is the true barrier.
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Okay, enough copy/pasting. Hope this helps you find some kind of personal peace. Best wishes!
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reader, retroactive +, writes (24 April 2016):
retroactive is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDear CindyCares; I want my son to have as much as sex possible while my daughter to stay virgin until marriage. The reason? I wish I had known. It's most likely about sexual conduct of society. Throughout history, woman who were virgin assumed as pure and noble while virgin guys made fun of. Or to have sex 20 times, a woman should only open her legs and say "yes" 20 times while a guy should really invest so much resources and time for it. If today I wanted to work as a male escort, I would die of starvation. Why? I believe it is a long topic that to be discussed in my opinion regarding sex , men and women are not equal and can't be compared equally.
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (24 April 2016):
The magic words that will heal you. Oh dear. I think that like many who suffer these intrusive, unwanted and uncontrollable images and thoughts, this won’t be solved by a few words from a stranger on the internet.
First of all, I’ld suggest you read all the posts by this uncle: http://www.dearcupid.org/people/yos
I would examine your belief system, actually, I would dismantle it and start from scratch.
And I do agree that RJ is a disorder. It does sound as though it’s been quite crippling for you. You are in your 30s and dating for one year, so perhaps let this one go. Recognize that you might find other triggers even in a woman with no active sexual past. Who was her first kiss? Her first crush? The first time she saw a man’s penis on screen or in a magazine?
I would focus on why you, as a young man, felt asking women out or dating was outside your comfort zone. Why in your teens and 20s it was difficult for you to ask a woman out on a date.
Back to Yos’ advice column, I found this one on an old thread:
"3) The images and pictures of her having sex with other guys"
This needs the same approach as dealing with the lying. I myself had a very hard time with this... for at least 6 months I'd have incredibly strong images of my girlfriend with other men. I'd see them in our bedroom, I'd see them in our house. Sometimes a whole crowd of men just watching me and even laughing at me. I'd have to get up out of bed and run from the room. So I know how vivid and intrusive these images can be.
You have to teach yourself to not be effected by the images. You can do this by teaching yourself to remain calm and balanced when they appear in your mind. When they do appear, you need to be able to turn on an inner voice that tells you to not react to them, don't look at them, turn away. It's like tuning out the noise of the street through an open window when you're trying to read, or ignoring the buzzing of a fly in your room. It's something you can teach yourself to do. And like anything someone can learn to do, if you practice you can get very good at it.
This is probably not the answer you want. For over a year I would accept only one answer: that I could forever be rid of these images, thoughts and feelings. I would only accept that the world had to be as if none of this had ever happened. I'd have read what i'm saying now and said 'no thats not good enough for me'.
But that is impossible. Your wife did have those one night stands, and that can never be changed. The only thing you can change is your reaction to that thought. The thought itself will never ever go away, it will always be there. So will those images. They are permanent, and as indelible as your wife's past.
The only thing you can control is yourself. Focus on not reacting to these thoughts and feelings and you'll learn that they don't have to hurt as much as they do. Once you realize that, then it's a long but steady road of gradually diminishing their effect as you become more and more able to tune them out and ignore them. There is no magic bullet, or shortcut. Just the long gradual journey out.
Do take comfort in the fact that there are two guys, myself and troubledtoomuch, who have both been in your situation and have come through it. It is possible, and in the end you'll have a better relationship that ever, and be very glad you did what you did.
If you struggle with quieting your mind I suggest you consider something like meditation, tai chi or yoga classes. I have found tai chi invaluable in helping me learn to focus my awareness away from these negative thoughts. These 3 disciplines, and others similar, are excellent for training the mind to do this.
I also have two exercises I've used that I found help.
The first was to wait until I had a moment when I was feeling very warm and loving towards my girlfriend, and then to come up with a mantra. In my case it was 'She loves me, she will always love me, and always be faithful to me'. Then, when I found the negative feelings and thoughts returning, I'd recite that to myself over and over. It gave me something to cling to and was very helpful. It's a way to both distract yourself and remind yourself of your connection to your wife.
The other exercise was a bit different. It's more of a thought related to the idea of permanence and the past:
People are not things like rocks, or cars, or permanent things. Solid objects that are unchanging. We are more like patterns: like a whirlpool or a sand-dune in the desert, or a river. Whilst our form remains the same, every part of us is always changing and being replaced. Like the whirlpool, that whilst it is always 'the same thing', is made every moment of different molecules of water. Every cell in our body is new, every moment we are not quite the person we were before. Every thought and feeling is new, replacing the thoughts and feelings that came before, like water moving downriver and into the sea.
Because of this, our past is not engraved in us permanently like a carving in a rock. Rather, our past is like ripples on a the surface of a pool, actions are like cutting the surface of a river with a sword. Memories are old ripples that have bounced across this surface over and over, until they are lost amongst the noise. There is no permanent mark your wife's past has made on her, she is as clean and pure and virtuous now as the surface of a lake... the old ripples caused by her past have faded. She is a different person now, made of different stuff. The past is only as real as an echo. We can remake ourselves anew every day.
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reader, retroactive +, writes (24 April 2016):
retroactive is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHello Chigirl; Thank you for your long input which was very valuable for me.I know the problem I'm having as you stated actually injected to my belief system from an early age from outside. But when something planted in your brain while you are young is so hard to change. It becomes your personality. Also I somehow add so much value to virginity since I believe it is one of the most important moment of a girls life. The feelings are something that she will never ever forget. I'm pretty sure she won't remember the details of our first night together.I just have a feeling that I missed so much. I missed the innocence, the hearth palpation, she was most likely felt like she is having a heart attack.The blushing , exploring a feeling that she never felt before (the first time feeling something inside). How much ego boost the guy had since he knew he engraved his name to her memories forever.This guy will recall those memories whenever he hears something about virginity. I will do the same. He will have a "those were great days my friend" feeling while I feel raped on the other hand.Funny part is , she didn't want to do it, she knew she would never marry him and asked him what her future husband would think about her not being a virgin.The guy explained her that "Don't worry , he won't mind. He is probably having sex too right now with another woman". Well somehow I feel like I'm cheated from the past?! I mean she knew I was out there, but she did it anyway. Weirdly it feels like cheating. Maybe she didn't know my name or how I look perhaps but she knew I was out there. I may have felt better if she really thought they were gonna end up married. Also same boyfriend (from high school) dumped her later just because she felt bad about having sex that early.So it's obvious that he just wanted a conquest. I can't stop imagining this guy out there happy, got "what would it like to be with a virgin" question out of his system.I will try my best with EMDR and counseling with my psychiatrist. But if I can't have a permanent solution, unfortunately I will break up with her (This is the first time I can say it out loud). She will be devastated sooooo much but after a while , she will continue her life. I really don't think we will ever forget about each other since we are really soulmates. But she will have a chance to start a new life where she doesn't need to avoid triggers, checking if I'm going in to depression again etc.. Pure acceptance. Meanwhile I'll miss her dearly till the day I die, I will accept that I have a psychiatric disorder that is extremely hard to solve and needs lifetime struggle. Only solution would be to seek out a girl without a past that I can accept. if not, simply live a life alone.I can't go on like this, I won't go on like this. It's like living a life a chronic disease or a constant pain. I'm pretty sure that if I got to find a virgin girl my reaction after the first night will be "Was that it?". It is like wanting to be rich and famous. People tell you it doesn't bring happiness. But you will only realize it after you become rich and famous yourself.Maybe everyone have weak points on their ego and it is sometimes wiser to construct your life far from those spots. Losing your love would hurt like 2-3 years? RJ is till the day you die (If you can't solve it)I hope EMDR works.
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reader, CindyCares  +, writes (24 April 2016):
 If I got it right, no amount of therapy could convince you , for isntance , to say that's OK for a daughter of yours to have sex before marriage. You won't accept that becaus it goes against your values; you feel that having premarital sex is a bad, bad thing.
... Then why YOU are having premarital sex with this Gf ?! And with that other woman before her ?
If you feel it's an immoral negative thing for other people,... then it must be an immoral negative thing for you too , I suppose ?
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reader, Serpico +, writes (24 April 2016):
retroactive -Please read my post below.For starters, there is one thing I want to emphasize to you that you need to accept if you are going to get better. It is that there is absolutely nothing "wrong" with you. You have no illness, self-esteem issue, or irrational insecurity. Again, this is simply an inconvenient byproduct of male evolution, and with that being hard on yourself over it makes no more sense than beating yourself up over having facial hair. Once I realized this myself, it became much easier to move forward.Next, despite their best intentions, I would very much warn you about taking a woman's advice on this. While there is no malintent, its just simply a matter of standing. Ie, it would be like a man giving a woman advice on PMS. Sure, we can sympathize with it, but is there a single man who really understands it?Again, please read my post below. Your mental salvation lies in taking one of those two choices. Again, I wish you the best of luck, and feel free to PM me if you have any further questions.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (24 April 2016):
Ah, sorry, wrote my looong reply, and see your follow-up now only after already posting.
In response to your follow-up. Your frustrations are legitimized through the ideas you list up. Ideas of a womans value being higher when young and, as a result of being young, somehow she much be prettier (although that is highly subjective).
So the initial false logic makes for a false logical response. I say false, because honestly, this is not some objective truth, and the way you choose to see the world is a choice. So claiming that things must be this and that way, is a lie. The truth is that each individual choose how they will see the world. I choose to see young women and men as a waste, where you choose to see them as of higher value. I see it as a waste, simply because all this frolicking about without responsibilities only cause heart ache and does not really amount to anything. It's like doing the dishes without soap, you only end up having to do them over again afterwards. And sure, you got some experience in how to do the dished from the first time around, but you didn't get it right then, and needed to do it again anyways. So twice the work, and all you end up with is the same knowledge of how to do the dishes as you would have had from getting it right the first time.
But, that is my view.
Yes, I do believe your lack of experience is part of the problem for you. Or, actually I believe it is the false things people say to you that is the biggest problem. If no one had told you anything before about having sex, or about virginity, or about what virginity supposedly means, then you wouldn't be in this situation either. I mean, there is no such thing as "virginity" really. It's not a physical thing you can tap on a jar, or box up. It's abstract. And you wouldn't have known to care about it, if it wasn't for someone telling you that you should care about it. It doesn't mean anything to you. Your life, your experience, would be NO DIFFERENT whether she was a "virgin" or not. Everything that is supposedly different, is imaginary. Her pussy wouldn't have felt differently, and your cock wouldn't have changed colours, haha. My point is, nothing would have been different for you. So the only difference you experience is an imagined one.
I believe someone has been telling you things. Maybe you read it online, or maybe some friends have been bragging about their sex lives. Or whoever fed you the idea that women have value that decline as they grow older. People who feed you such thoughts, they are also the ones who fed you the thought that there is such a thing as virginity.
Virginity is actually just a lack of experience. So lets take the made up word "virginity" out of our vocabulary for a bit. Lets exchange it with "experience". You feel inadequate because she has more experience than you. So you compare yourself with her, compete I guess, on who has most experience. You do this because you blame yourself. As you said, you regret not having experienced more as a younger man. So lets separate the girlfriend from this, because your problem roots with you not being pleased with your own efforts at an earlier age, and is therefor not relevant to your girlfriend. She is not the cause of your problems. And, lets be honest, you probably would have felt regret for sitting behind your computer in your younger years, whether you had a girlfriend now or not. You probably would have felt regret even if you had a different girlfriend, a girlfriend who was not more experienced than you were. But if she was equally inexperienced, at least you'd not feel alone. You'd feel that you had BOTH missed out, and somehow, when we humans feel like shit, it makes us feel better knowing that we're not the only ones.
But you can take comfort in knowing that there are others out there who sat behind a computer in their youth and who also regrets it, if that helps. Even if that person isn't your girlfriend.
So, how about we switch things. Instead of being a negative person, we become a positive person. Instead of feeling grumpy that our partner has experienced something we didn't, we are happy for them? Lets say the experience isn't a sexual one, just for this thought experiment. Lets say you always wanted to go to Disney land. And when you had the chance as a younger man, you didn't go, and now feel like you missed that chance of experiencing Disney land as a young man. Never mind the fact that you can go there now, you are miserable because you didn't go when you were younger. You imagine that Disney land would have felt different and maybe better, and maybe have made you a better person later on, had you gone there when you were young. Well, that sucks, we all make decisions we look back upon and wish we had done differently. That's how we learn.
But then you find a girlfriend and discover that she went to Disney land as a younger person! And you get jealous. Maybe you feel she has advanced you? Become a better person than you because she went at a younger age? But why not be happy for her? She went and did what you did not do, well, good for her, right? Or else she might have been miserable about it like you are now. And it does not make life easier or better for you to be in a relationship with a miserable girlfriend who has regrets in life.
She went to Disney land. Enjoy the good stories she has to tell. And then, go yourself. Even if you are older, because the rides are still fun. And there is luckily no age limit. Everyone is allowed to enter! And maybe it is even more fun now, because some rides you can't take until you are this old and so and so tall.
Same goes for sex. There are some rides you can't go on when you are too young.
And last, but not least. Every experience is just as valuable. Having gone to Disney land is an experience that does not incline or decline in value dependent on when in life you go.
Lets return to our dish washing. So you washed with soap the first time around. Maybe because your girlfriend already did the washing without soap, and now knows to use soap. So she taught you how to use soap right away, and you got the dishes done on first try. Your dishes are just as clean as hers, then. Not worse, not better. Just as clean. And you didn't have to learn the hard way.
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reader, mintrablooms +, writes (24 April 2016):
This is what I mean. You say in your update you've only been with one other woman. I'm being serious, get some more partners for yourself and these feelings will vanish. I think your version is a little extreme, but in general I think it's totally normal for anyone to feel jealous when their partner has had way more people than them. I don't this is even a guy thing.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (24 April 2016):
Im going to start writing my answer without a reply from you, but it would be helpful if you answered how many partners you have been with yourself and if this is a problem you have had all your life or if it just started with your current girlfriend.
First I would like to say thank you for your post, I find it to be one of the best written questions on retroactive jealousy and shows good self knowledge and insight. You also show clearly a genuine desire and will of mind to change this. You don't want to feel the way you do, you feel it ruins your life/relationship, and you are worried it will continue for life like the man in the post you quoted.
Maybe it can help you to hear what the world looks like from my perspective, and how I believe you can come to the same understanding as I have.
My father is mentally ill. I believe, like you, that your problems with jealousy comes from mental illness as well. My father is also extremely possessive, jealous, and tried to kill my mother after she met a new man (and this was over a decade after my father and mother had ended things). So, I am not a professional therapist, but I do have experience with this thought pattern. Growing up with a father like this, I was taught how to think like he does. I feel it right underneath the surface, and I know how easy it could be for me to lose control and become obsessive as well. When I am tired, or feeling down, I can come to think the same pattern you describe. And I know where it comes from: it is my heritage from my father, because this is the logic of a mentally ill man.
That said, the mind is amazing. If you are healthy, not diagnosed with an illness, and don't have anything physically wrong in your brain/body that impacts your thinking, then you can control this. But this is where it's important to know whether you've had this problem all your life or not.
I believe that all the people you have spoken to so far also experience jealousy. Which is why they fail to give you a good answer on how to "get over it", as they say. Because they have no idea how to do it. It bothers them too, and their way of dealing with it is to try not to think about it, or they tell themselves to "get over it". The way these suggestions are worded proves that they have this problem themselves, because the advice recognizes that you have an actual problem. You need to "get over it" = that there is actually something you need to get over.
Here is the difference between those people, and me. I do not have jealousy in any form. There is nothing to "get over", because the problem simply isn't there. And THIS is what should be your goal. Your goal should not be to find a way to live with the problem, your goal should be to NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM. Do you understand the difference?
Saying "get over it" or "get used to it" is like telling an alcoholic that he can't have 20 beers a day, just one, and he needs to get used to always feeling like he needs more and never have it. Instead, Im telling you to not drink at all. Don't try to find a way to live with jealousy. Remove jealousy from your life all-together.
In order to do this, you don't need medicine. You need meditation and time to think. And you need to accept that this process will take years.
I am an aggressive and abusive person who can become physically violent. I am not at all proud of this, this is my baggage, this is how I was raised. With a mentally ill mans logic in my head and grew up with his fists and his anger, of course I grew up to be just like him. And I hate it. But this isn't who I AM, really, it is something that has been forced on me, a routine, a way of reaction that I was forced into, without concent. Just like you didn't get a choice between whether to be jealous or not. It was forced upon you. Your life would be so much easier if you did not have this pattern of reaction, if you did not have these negative feelings. Why would you ever have chosen that yourself? You didn't!
But you can change it. Through meditation and going deep into yourself. Therapy can help with this, but what really worked for me was to ask myself who I wanted to be. Who do you want to be? Think, close your eyes, and imagine yourself as you want to be. Find your goal. Picture that version of yourself. Hold on to that image. Every day. Every second. Every time you open your mouth to speak. Think of that version of you who you want to be.
Every day, every minute, every time you speak, and with every move you make. You make a choice. You decide who you want to be. It is most difficult at first, because you're not used to having to imagine an ideal version of yourself first. We humans are so used to just accepting who we are at this very moment, only a handful of us understand that we can evolve and become someone else, a better version of ourselves. Which is again why you have only received crappy advice so far, people do not understand, do not know, that we can change who we are.
When I first started this process, my anger/violence level was very high. I was at the stage where I would belittle, trash talk, hit and punish, do silent treatment and say the meanest things only to crush a persons self worth. Yes, I was a real bitch. I am not over-estimating. Lets call this level 10. You have already written levels for yourself as well, which to me shows that you have already started on the path that I am now describing. I also had to start with describing my own levels. I was at such a high level, that I feared what I would do next. Then I began the mental game of imagining my ideal version of myself. Who I wanted to be. I imagined a balanced person who was in the middle of an argument, but who spoke softly. Who would smile. Who would disagree, but be able to end the argument with a hug. Who would be able to admit to her mistakes and be vulnerable.
It didn't happen over night, but I slowly got myself down to level 9. Which was not being physically violent. No throwing glasses, no hitting. Then level 8, no slamming doors. Level 7, no saying hurtful things just for the pleasure of hurting someone. Level 6, not shouting. Level 5, allowing your "opponent" to speak without interrupting. Level 4, respecting your opponent. Level 3... Talking calmly and not storming out of the room. Level 2, admitting to my own mistakes and apologizing. Level 1, having an adult discussion without allowing it to escalate into an argument.
Right now I move around between level 1 and level 4. I am extremely proud of that! This has resulted in me being able to end a relationship and still be friends, and have no hard feelings, for example. As opposed to my father who tried to kill my mother... It's a long journey.
You need to list up your levels as well, imagine your ideal version at level 1 (or 0). Use as many levels as you feel is useful.
That was the "mental practice" part. Which is how you will come to the state of mind where I am, as far as jealousy goes. I never was a jealous person, and I don't feel jealousy towards a past ex of someone. Or a past sexual history. So what I am going to describe to you now is something that might be useful to you when you try to imagine your ideal version of yourself.
For me, a person is an individual. A secret world. Each and every person is a galaxy of their own. They invite you as a guest into their world. You are a guest, always, never a permanent resident. Time is an imagined construction. Time does not exist, you can not bottle it up, you can not see it, you can not control it. Time does not exist. What happened in a persons past is as real as a fantasy story of unicorns. It delights me to hear these stories, of unicorns, or of past experiences. It is a way to see with their eyes, a way to discover their world. Like when you play a video game and explore the fantasy universe. It's exiting!
Some stories they tell are sad. Some are amusing. But they are all stories, none the less. This crap about a person past making them into who they are today isn't true, in my opinion. Individuals are like galaxies, they evolve by their own nature, not through the guests that have come to visit. The sun does not change just because humans flew to the moon. The moon did not change it's orbit around the earth. All that happened is that the humans got to see the earth from a new angle, which is what these visits can do. They can help you see things from a new angle. Visiting other worlds/talking to other humans can give us new perspective. But it doesn't change us, we change ourselves through our own choice.
Visiting another persons galaxy is a privilege. Not all are allowed to enter. Your exploration of the new galaxy is not dependent on whether someone else has been allowed to enter before you. Because, again, the galaxy of each person is not changed as a result of a visit. But more likely, the hidden world you discover within each person, is different from when someone else visited, because humans show a different person different sides of themselves. We also evolve by our own choice, and often for the better, so a new visitor is more likely than not to see an even more beautiful world than a previous visitor. Family and close friends are often allowed deeper into our worlds than anyone else, have seen things a romantic interest has not seen. In return, a romantic interest will be allowed to see parts that friends and family have not see.
Each time you talk to another human, you get a glimpse of their galaxy. Sometimes you are allowed to visit deep into their worlds, and then you never see them again. But the meeting can hold just as much meaning as a visit lasting several years. So each person you meet should be treated with respect and curiosity, because no matter of brief a time you have with them, they can show you something unique.
This all relates to how you treat other humans. How you respect other humans. A girlfriend is no different from a random stranger on the bus. We are each as valuable. And you are not allowed more with a girlfriend, than with the stranger on the bus. All you are allowed, is a visit, no matter what. You are never to set up camp, claim land, build a permanent house. You're only a back packer traveling through their lands, and you always have to return to yourself and your own galaxy.
So, jealousy does not belong here. Are you jealous of the stranger on the bus? I am sure he/she has seen many galaxies, walked through many lands, and seen things you have never seen. Are you jealous of that? Of course not, because you never thought to claim land on a strangers imaginary world. But the thought of jealousy is the thought that you are supposed to claim land, claim ownership, and that someone else has already claimed it before you, so if you don't hurry up and do it first, someone else will beat you to it.
But truth is, a jealous person is chasing a false claim. No one can ever claim land in anothers galaxy. Each individual owns their own galaxy, and it can not be bought, claimed, or inhabited by someone else. Not you, not an ex, not family, not anyone. All you will end up doing is trying to claim land that belongs to the individual themselves. Imagine if someone tried to claim your thoughts as theirs to own. You wouldn't like it. You'd push that person away and not allow them to enter your galaxy again. Who wants visitors like that? Who wants a visitor who enters your home and then tries to steal your couch?
So, lets leave the imaginary couch in the living room where it belongs, rather than wear ourselves tired trying to carry it with us and claim ownership over it. Sit in it when you are visiting, enjoy it and love it, but leave it behind when you go. Because it does not belong to you. And you need not worry, nobody else will be able to steal that couch away, you wont come visit one day and then the couch is gone. The couch that you love will be there for you to sit in as long as you are invited to come visit.
Your girlfriends "first night" as you say, and the emphasis you attach to the imagined thing called "virginity" is that couch. You wanted to be the first to sit there and carry it with you, because then you think it would belong to you. Or, at least that is what jealousy is telling you. That now someone else has stolen that couch and taken it with them, and you are left sitting on the floor.
But the couch is there. Because it never belonged to an ex, it was never possible to take it. It belongs to your girlfriend, and whenever you come visit, you can sit in it. So no need to plant a flag there, it is useless. You are only a visitor.
Good luck to you!
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male
reader, retroactive +, writes (24 April 2016):
retroactive is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHello chigirl; I've been only with one woman other than my current fiancee but my relationship was very brief.I'm 100% sure that lack of sexual experience in early years of my life is the main contributor of RJ (Interestingly I see this pattern in almost all RJ sufferers). Your mind somehow over values the sex.To be honest I believe RJ is also has something to do with the regret. I mean I was a typical nerd in my early twenties who fantasized about girls but yet too shy to get out of my comfort zone. Somehow over years for reason that I can't explain (Some men matures in much lower speeds I guess?) I turned in to this handsome, confident, very wealthy and successful guy. Now looking back, I see that I missed my teenage years behind a computer while everyone was having meaningless fun relationships with no responsibilities attached. I actually saw this coming, so I thought I should find someone with no past at all so we would even the play-field. I wouldn't need to feel regret of any kind since my partner has no past either.I also kinda feel I got the short end of the stick. I mean how can I feel like a winner knowing that my girlfriend's EX got to experience her no different than a husband suppose to ; when she was younger, prettier, without him having any financial or legal responsibilities or dealing with parental issues and so on. Sometimes I can't stop myself feeling like she had all the fun and got it out of her system and now she gets older and she wants to settle with "marriage material guy". I know you will hate me for saying this as this is too much objectifying the woman (I'm working on it) but this is how I feel. When women have the highest value when they are younger (more people hitting on them) and their value starts depreciate when they start to age (less people are hitting on them). If somehow you know that someone got to experience her while she was on top of her value for free without any obligation. Why should I invest rest of my life and 50% of my all resources, take care of her parents in the future while she keeps losing her value (again less people hitting on her) every coming year. Why would I pay the ultimate price (marriage for guys) for something that other got for free. If you marry a girl with no past, her value will be what you think she worth. If you believe she worth more than world itself, that is her value now. There would be no one (or sound in your brain) saying you made a bad deal as she was never on the market for the first place.This valuation system is interestingly different in men since women has different valuation criteria for men and the age is not even in top 3.Please don't hate me for my feelings. I have no control over them. Even I hate myself for thinking like this.I just didn't want to fake my feelings here and be honest. (No wonder my woman psychiatrist hated me).
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 April 2016): It seems as if you are living in her past relationship and not living in the relationship you have with her now.
I'm not sure how much of he past relationship she has shared with you, and this is exactly why in most relationships, we don't talk about the past. We just focus on the present and future. Regardless, I think you have created in your mind a beautiful image of her past relationship. You keep imagining how wonderful it was for her and her ex when they did this and when they did that. It's all just an imagination and mind game. You have to keep reminding yourself that it wasn't all that wonderful and all that great... you know why? Cuz she broke up with him. She hates him and how he has treated her. She was miserable! They argued, they are fed up with each other. They broke up! Do you imagine those scenes too? The scenes where they argue and where she has decided she no longer wants to be with this guy?
Maybe if you can add some reality into your fantasy it will all balance out. Just remember, with all the good memories you imagine of them, there are also just as much if not more bad memories. It doesn't matter to her how many good memories they've had. She hates him and wants nothing to do with him anymore. She's moved on and is happy with you now. YOU are her choice. So what if they shared memories, so what if they had good times. She is DONE with him and all that. She wants to be with YOU now. He lost. You won.
I suggest that you can try to fight your RJ this way. Every time an image or good memory of her past surfaces in your mind, balance it out with the image and memory of something bad. Maybe it will cause you to realize their relationship wasn't all that great or as wonderful as you have magnified it to be. She can also help strengthen your relationship by showing you that she no longer keeps in contact with him.
Good Luck! Remember its all a mind game and an imagination.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 April 2016): I feel very sorry for your girlfriend, and to an extent you. She has done nothing wrong at all, yet you are punishing her for living her life before she met you. If you can't get over this ridiculous obsession she may well leave you. I think you need to stop looking at her exs face books, and distract yourself. Or leave her. I don't think you will ever find a women with no past, how about if you do meet a virgin-are you going to get jealous over her first kiss or her holding hands with someone, when will it end.
Also, you must have a past-does she use it against you?
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (24 April 2016):
Can you tell me first, how many women have you been with? And is this the first time you experience jealousy?
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male
reader, Serpico +, writes (24 April 2016):
For starters - I have your same affliction so I can sympathize. I have the following for you.First, your condition is real and based very deeply in a male's evolution. It doesnt make you a misogynist or weak or less of a man. In a way, its existence in you signifies that you are even more masculine.Next, and this is going to sting a bit but I need to be honest if Im going to help you. No, if often doesnt go away, even with the passage of decades. Sometimes it does get better, but there is no guarantee. Again, this condition is hardwired into many men, so its pretty difficult to change it.With the above in mind, IMO a lifetime of misery is just not worth the risk. You get only one life - dont waste it being miserable over something you had nothing to do with. With that you have two and only two choices.The first is only be with a woman whos past you can handle. This is the way I went I am all the better for it. I cant tell you the relief not needing to see the movie play in my head every hour on the hour. Im sure you know exactly what I speak of. I have no movie to play now other than my own. The one caveat I would add here is to make damn sure you get the real story. Many women know high value men wont invest in a women with a sordid past, so do what you need to do to get to the truth, because you deserve the truth.The second thing you can do is go with it. One thing I have found about this affliction is it only starts to sting you when you begin to emotionally invest in a woman. Hence - dont do that. If a woman has had a large number of partners before you, clearly she is ok with that so just go with it. Sleep with her, be respectful to her, but do not invest in her in any way, either emotionally or financially. By doing so, you are simply continuing the game she already started long before you, so there is really no harm no foul here. Really, to be free from this you have to choose one path or the other. I do wish you all the luck in the world.
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female
reader, GeeGee255 +, writes (24 April 2016):
 Dear OP I feel bad that you are suffering so much but in this day and age most people you meet will have had a past that includes a few ex lovers. You never really explained what she did or what you learned about past or how you found out, and i would like to hear more about, but that really doesn't matter given you're current state of mind. Based solely on the comments you have made here I can only suggest that you end the relationship because she deserves better than to be married to you for the rest of her life. Someone who claimed to love her but seems to be overly obsessive about someone she was with before she ever even met you. Sorry but I see no future for her or you together. You need a pure as snow virgin, good luck finding one who loves you as much as she did.
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female
reader, mintrablooms +, writes (23 April 2016):
I think you should not see her until you get more of your own partners. Then you won't be jealous anymore.
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