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*omWales
writes:Been married for 28 years - have two teenage children. My wife has said she has no feelings for me any longer and wants to separate. I am so hurt and upset. She has admitted the separation is purely selfish on her part but does not want to think of anyone but herself - time to look after number one. She has been feeling like this since her sibling died a few years ago. I need help and tips on what to do to make her love me again as much as I love her. Reply to this Question
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (13 June 2014):
Hello Tom. I am glad that things have calmed down.Based on the way that your wife changes her mind so much, perhaps it would not be a good idea to agree to sell the house. You might have agreed, based on the renting together idea, only to find she changed her mind about that as well and was demanding her cash instead. Very tricky, but in any event you luckily didn't go there.The only time you would have to sell is if she served divorce papers on you, but even then there would be no rush. It is interesting that she hasn't done that don't you think!?For now all you can do is bide your time and see what happens, which can't be easy and seems less than you deserve.Being transparent over the Paypal is probably a good idea, although it must be disappointing for her to have built up the legend of your double life, to find it untrue.Quite often those sorts of accusations are deflection. She is trying to make you seem the unreasonable one.You are bound to be affected over time by her by her treatment of you and the lack of trust. All you can do is protect yourself as best you can, which will entail some emotional distancing.I hope that you get to France for some time with your kids. Perhaps you could go with them initially, then swap with her. The reason being "work" or something like that. I bet she won't enjoy herself as much without you. We already know that you won't enjoy yourself as much without her, but at least there is good French wine to perk you up. Onwards and upwards.
A
male
reader, TomWales +, writes (12 June 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - things have calmed down in the last few days. She still thinks I live a double life even after telling her where they money had gone. She thinks I have hundreds if not thousands in my Paypal account. She told me from now on I'm to show her my paypal account on a regular basis. I feel as if I'm 7yrs old!! I only sell my 'junk' on ebay. Not hers, not the kids' stuff only things I have collected over the years. Our lofft is full of old records,books, magazines etc etc and as you know people will buy anything on ebay - and they do. She decide last weekend she wanted to sell the house and rent a place TOGETHER so we could get rid of a few of the debts and do the house up in France this summer!I went along with this saying I'd think about it. At times like this I find I can't sleep as I am worried about making a mistake and selling the lovely Georgian house we have. The houses for rent in this area would only save us a £100 a month. I wasn't sure what to do. But on her return from work on Monday she told me that she'd changed her mind AGAIN and that there was no point in renting. This is exactly what messes up my head. I hope that it's not her little game. Due to this I have become more distant towards her but I don't want to be. The last couple of days I have not made her the usual cuppa on her return from work. To be honest - I'm not happy with this as that was the ONLY time we sat down and talked. So I don't know how long it will last.This weekend will be interesting as it's Father's Day. She'd never organize anything for me on that day anyway - If I got a card I'd be lucky. She'd always say - "You didn't want a present did you?". This year for the first year of being a Father(15yrs) I have booked a table for us 4 in a restaurant. I was expecting her to object - but no - when I told her she only asked where the restaurant was!I have been getting on with my life this week - busy with an up and coming project and a trip to the theatre with a friend.It's just strange not having her sat next to me at the theatre.You mentioned dating....at the moment I have no interest in dating. Even if I were - remember I'm now in my 50's and have not been on the dating scene since I was 18 - I don't think anyone would be interested in me!! I should start getting myself in shape for the future - but at the moment it's the future that frightens me so I try not to think of it.
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A
female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (6 June 2014):
Yes, show her where the money has been spent and ask for an apology. In a way I am pleased that you have become a bit more irritated yourself. I am sure if she had simply asked, you would have provided the answers. It was rather unforgivable. In these circumstances I like to use the word "disappointed". Why not tell her that her behaviour as an intelligent woman is "disappointing"; you had thought better of her than the current situation indicates you should. Another useful phrase is, "You can say that if you like, but saying it does not make it true".I told you that our family has a house in France? Well we have continued using it. My parents bought it 30 years ago and from my twenties we have regularly gone back. Your kids may still use it too, it will provide a cost effective option for them once the party spots of Europe wear thin. I know that your wife's attitude is difficult and there is no solution for now. I am naughty, wondering what she would think if you asked if you are free to date should you meet someone! Oh dear, please ignore me, it is just sometimes temping to stick a pin in, but it rarely does any good!All you can do is be determined about making your own plans, taking pleasure from things you plan and demonstrating your growing independence. Give up showing her that you are trying to hang on. Agree with her that this is tiresome and tell her you don't want to be with her any more in these circumstances. You are eager to get it over with. Be firm. Even if she seems glad about that, you won't lose the chance for her to turn. Don't lose your nerve. Anything would be better than living like this. One day everything will be very good for you. I know it. Keep the news coming, but enjoy your weekend.
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A
male
reader, TomWales +, writes (6 June 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - No, the children know nothing and won't know anything until we decide 100% to separate. My eldest has exams at the moment. My wife asked the other day what the situation was. I answered and said if she was intent on separation that we'd have to wait till we could both get a mortgage(April 2015) and I was not prepared to waste money on rent for the next year. Her answer was "OK - as long as you don't think of another excuse for not separating next April!" But she then showed her true colours as she elaborated by saying that she wanted to separate and sell our home so that she could spend some money on the house in France this summer so that she could enjoy the house with the kids.She thinks that in a few years time the kids will not want to go on holiday to the house in France as they will be holidaying with their friends in more lively European resorts as most young people do. The house in a quiet remote village would not be their cup of tea really. I don't think she's thinking straight - a quick separation just to furnish our second home in France? After being together for 34years and married for 28....our relationship and friendship comes second to bricks and mortar overseas? Money is still the issue that makes us argue. This - in my mind - is definitely the main reason she want's to separate. She has accused me this evening of leading a double life. (The one I have is complicated enough as it stands!!) She has accused me of hiding £1000 this month from my sales on eBay.She's been looking at our savings account - where the eBay money is kept and says that a grand has left the account. When I told her she was being stupid she went mad! She asked me where the money had gone and where am I keeping it? Now I've had time to reflect and think about where it's gone I can vouch for 90% of the money...I've not hidden anything from her. Things like £200 for the dentist...£350 for the weekend away with the kids....food on the table for the last month....the kids dinner and school bus money...and to be honest it's not far off a £1000. But what made me angry was her accusing me of living a double life and her thinking I'm stashing money away from her...I think she's been watching to many late night TV dramas! As I've told you before - at the moment we are not well off. My wife's wages pays the mortgage and bills etc while my money pays for things like the weekly shopping, extras like school trips and clothes etc for the kids. My biggest luxury these days is meeting friends for the occasional latte in the local coffee house - I think if I were leading a secret life I could stretch to more than a bloody latte!!But this evening it hurt when she insisted I was lying. She has since gone to bed - should I email her at work a list of my expenditure over the last month for her to see I don't have a stash of money under the mattress? Or confront her with it when she get's home from work tomorrow? It upsets me to think that she knows the one and only thing to make me see red is when I'm accused of something I know I'm not guilty of.By accusing me of lying etc she made me angry and I did shout at her tonight - the first time really since she's asked for a separation. I am now angry with myself for letting her get to me. Oh well - tomorrow is another day.....
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A
female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (31 May 2014):
Well how horrible and how deluded. The fact that she is paying the mortgage now, does not negate the fact that this has been a partnership. She can not simply kick you out or sell the house without your permission. However you get the advice, do it, even if it costs some money. I mentioned the mediation, which used to be an almost free service. Perhaps you could suggest this to her as a way forward. If it still exists. You would usually attend together. I hope some work comes your way soon. I guess it would help quite a lot.
She isn't likely to stop paying the mortgage, but I wish for your sake that you could have some input there. It must be quite humiliating. Worrying too, considering you hope for a mortgage. Can you really have one with no income?
It isn't going to be easy to replicate your home.
Telling you that you have NO rights -what does that mean? Have you asked her? It really does sound as though she is losing patience big time.
Keep bring firm, tell her to stop being nasty, stand your ground. She must be like another person, you may start wanting to get away from her as much as she wants to get away from you. What an awful situation. Do the children know yet?
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A
male
reader, TomWales +, writes (31 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - What she said to begin with was that she didn't want to think of others any longer and she wanted to put herself first. Mainly I think now that the 'others' was me. She changes her mind about things every day.She has since stated that the one thing she's not looking forward to when we separate is the fact that the kids will be living with me for half the week. She has said she doesn't know how she's going to cope with not being there for them before they go to school and when they come home etc etc.This evening I have put my foot down firmly as when I got in from work she'd tidied my office/study. When I asked her why she'd done this she told me it would look better when people came to look at the house. I told her I wasn't moving anywhere right now and that I've been doing some research into renting 3 bedroom house in the kids school catchment area.On average rental is about £200 a month more expensive that a mortgage.If we are to separate I'd rather stick it out until next April when the Building Society WILL give us a mortgage each so we could each by a property. Tonight she told me I have no choice and as it was her paying our mortgage at the moment I would have to do what she says. I think maybe I'll have to look for some 'free' or cheap legal advice.I know she can't do this. But she is now getting frustrated with the situation and has told me more than once that I have NO rights.I know that I do have rights but I need to know exactly what they are.
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A
female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (30 May 2014):
Tom, you can go to mediate or to a solicitor. Mediation first would be useful because it will describe both of your positions in an open, balanced way. Either way make sure you get advice and do not fall on your sword. Remember that you will have the kids, she said she didn't want the responsibility, don't let her forget.
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A
male
reader, CMMP  +, writes (30 May 2014):
I agree that this limbo is now way to live. I know you wanted this year to "fix" things, but it's clear that she is not interested in that right now, and being close to you is pushing her away.
All hope is not lost however. Being truly separated will help both of you. She'll regain some sanity, as will you, you'll start to get over her and realize you actually CAN live without her, and she may even realize that she still loves you and it's worth giving things another shot.
A lot of that has to do with how well you work with her on this. Don't be a pushover, but don't resist change just because you have a broken heart.
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A
female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (30 May 2014):
You can't do anything that isn't part of divorce proceedings. Who will the children live with? You, she doesn't want the responsibility of them any more remember. In which case you get most of the money. How can you have a mortgage with so little income? You won't get one. How will you pay rent? Her plan is just not doable. Your sums will show what you can do, selling your French House etc? To be honest I think you might take the lead now, in bringing these things to a head. Start the proper talks, you keep the kids. On that basis tell her you are ready to start proceedings. But not as she directs, as the law says. Honestly, it is time. I am really sorry. You don't deserve this but you probably need to start the fight. It will be time to tell the kids too, so make her state the timetable. They need to know now. Draw a line. Get in your corner with your £ gloves on. This stagnant pond is no place to be. Time to set her free to the consequences?
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A
male
reader, TomWales +, writes (29 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - I mentioned before that every day when my wife comes home from work I expect the worse.I never know what she's going to say next. Most times it's just a 'normal' chat over a cup of coffee. But today was one of those chats I was dreading. She has decided that the best option now would be not to wait a year to sell the house so we could get a mortgage but to sell now and rent a house each until we are both able to get our mortgages sorted. I do not agree with this as in my opinion renting is a waste of money and also moving house is stressful enough without having to go through it all again in a year or so.Not only would it be stressful for my wife and I but I'm also thinking about the kids. This has been their home since the day they were born. They are really happy here. It's going to upset them moving from here but moving to rented accommodation in my mind is not a good option.Why does my wife change her mind about everything? A few weeks ago it was settled that we'd stay here for at least a year and then move on. Now it's changed. She said to begin with she wanted us to go on family outings and holidays together.She has changed her mind on that issue. She didn't want to come with me to concerts etc...but the last two and one in June which we booked a while back...she'd decided to come with me. Is she messing with my head? It's hard enough knowing that she want's to separate but every now and again she changes the goal posts so to speak. I'm finding this really hard to cope with.
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A
female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (28 May 2014):
Hi there. I am really chuffed that you enjoyed your trip and yes, it is really nice that you were all being thought of. Wonderful memories to share with your kids. The counsellor is probably just answering the needs expressed by your wife and tying to help her based on what she has said. Your wife is looking for freedom. She hasn't worked out where it is yet. Freedom is where you find it. IE: it exists in flying full pelt down a hill on your bicycle. It isn't about living on your own in a house, or being free from having to think of anyone else (and go to the pub for a drink with your work "mates"). It isn't about being ruthless or selfish, or about counselling.I reckon the more a person remembers how to be a child the more free they are. This is what your wife has forgotten. As you do these things with your kids and enjoy them I think you will find what she is looking for in herself! What do you think of that idea? Have a nice time, as I am sure you will, while she is at the BBQ.
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A
male
reader, TomWales +, writes (27 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - I'm glad to say the weekend went well. The kids and I had a great time and they both loved our little trip. I wasn't going to contact my wife at all during the weekend but as we were driving to our destination she texted to ask when we were going and when we'd be arriving etc. I didn't answer until later in the day. She also texted that evening to see how our day was going and also they morning after. It seemed to me that even in the company of her parents and family she was thinking of us away on our little jaunt.The nicest thing about the weekend is that I had a lovely time with my children.
It did get a little strange when my eldest asked me if I was going to a friends BBQ this evening. I knew nothing about it but the friend had invited my wife and the kids but not me. This is understandable as this so called friend (female) is one of my wife's closest friends. The cousellor I mentioned before. She has done this before and I don't mind my wife and kids having a good time it's just that I feel this 'friend' is not helping the situation but just helping my wife to separate from me.She has lent my wife a book on how to get what she wants out of life and not to let anyone or anything get in the way of her goals. Charming.My wife hasn't arrived home yet from her parents - and no - her parents don't know anything as yet as they are quite old and a little frail. I wonder what kind of mood she'll be in when she arrives. She hasn't mentioned the BBQ yet. But I've arranged to go out anyway - a friend and I are off to the theatre. No point staying in the house feeling sorry for myself.
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A
female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (24 May 2014):
Oh Tom, so sorry to hear your sadness. You are doing the right thing though. It may take a long time for her to come around. She has a lot to test out first. My husband tries to do a lot for me as well, to the point where it makes me feel incompetent! So I rebel and go on driving holidays with just a girlfriend. So often a man dies first and because he has taken charge with driving, his wife has no confidence. I expect our wife will feel empowered by doing this drive alone and actually it is a good thing.Telling other people, I think, comes after the children know. Has she told her parents? If so, it is an important thing. I am sure they will be sad and hope she reconsiders.In many ways I wish she would do it and just go, at least for a month or so. A trial away from home would be a good idea. I know you don't want that but there is no progress made in this place where you both just wait and sit. I feel that she will have to be much farther away from you before she wanted to come back. I may be wrong.The best I wish for you is to enjoy your weekend. In the frame of mind she is in I don't think she would notice or care much. So get a bit feisty on your own behalf? Sod her! One thing I know for absolute sure. In two years time you will be much happier, either with her or in a new start. One way or another your life is going to get better. I am not so sure I think the same about hers.
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A
male
reader, TomWales +, writes (24 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThe evening at the concert went well - tho' a few songs did bring a tear to my eyes.But I took your advice and sat there with her as if I was out with a friend rather than the wife I've loved for so long.
Maybe the hardest thing to accept is that she acts as though she doesn't want to save the marriage and I do. Over the last few days she has become cold and distant. She went out with her 'work' friends last night and got in about 4am - but when I asked her this morning over coffee in a pleasant tone how the evening had gone she didn't want to respond. But then went on to ask me about my day and my evening.I'd met a female friend for lunch. We've been friends for over 30 years. Every time I meet up with a friend my wife's first question is "Did you tell her/him about us?". When I answer "no I didn't because we talked about other things" she looks a little disappointed.At the moment I don't want all my friends to know my business - that is why I've chosen only to tell my two closest friends.My good friend yesterday talked for the first half our of our conversation about people we know who have recently separated. I just couldn't tell her about my wife and I - knowing full well that by that evening we'd also be one of those couples in her topic of the day!!
We will be apart for the next couple of days - I hope this will be good for the both of us. Little things I know worry my wife. She has to drive nearly 200 miles on her own to see her parents. She doesn't like driving alone. She doesn't like filling the car with petrol. Nine times out of ten it's me that does it for her. When she left this morning I usually help her pack the car and when she leaves I'm stood at the door waving her goodbye and reminding her to call once she's arrived at her parents place so that I know she's ok. Today I did none of that. I'll be honest - It was very hard not to. When she called 'Bye' from the door - neither of the kids answered as they were busy on their computers and I did respond by saying 'bye' as if she was just popping down the shops and not going away for the weekend without her 'family'. I hope this was the right thing to do. What do you think?
Although I'm off with the kids for the weekend I can't help but feel a little down that she'll be with her family (parents and sisters) - the family I've been a part of and very close to since I was 18. Not being a part of that family makes me really sad.I wonder, tho' she doesn't show it, if somewhere deep inside she will miss me this weekend? I know I'll miss her.
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A
female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (22 May 2014):
Sorry I made you repeat some details, I'm afraid my attention to detail is a bit erratic for various good reasons. Please bear with me.After exchanging all of the words and ideas as we have, it does seem to come back to your original posting and the bereavement. You have obviously had a very successful marriage and a great partnership. One to be envied. Nothing bad to compare it against, so less perception of what could be lost?I can see that you are trying to support her and prevent, as far as possible, her from doing something that she will regret. But, at the same time, you are having to adapt your own life in case the worst happens. She will miss your family trip, just make sure that you have a really nice time.Fingers crossed for some work, but I can't see much validity in that being raised as a grievance, based on all your past support for her.You may as well continue to expect whatever you do to be wrong at the moment. But try not to take it to heart.
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (22 May 2014):
As usual I do like CMMP's answer.
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male
reader, TomWales +, writes (22 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYes I do think she feels she is carrying me financially. But that is now - in the last few years. I'd say out of our 28yr marriage for about 18yrs I was earning more than her.Last year we earned roughly the same but the few years prior to last year and this year - I made much less than I usually do.But it all boils down to when her sibling died (three years ago) and she began to think about her own life. This is understandable. We only have one shot at it - so why not make it a good shot. But I find it cruel that after 28yrs of marriage and 34yrs of being together she has decided to look after number one.As I mentioned before - for a period of four/five years my wife decided to go back to University to study for a degree.She was in her mid 30's. It was me that paid all her Uni tuition fees and paid for the mortgage, bills,food etc etc and also a nice holiday every year. But of course that means nothing now.Re work....if I could work everyday of the week I would.I love my job. It's not that I'm lazy. And yes while I'm not working I'm a house husband...cleaning,washing the dishes, making the beds, cooking the meals, the weekly supermarket shop...Along with promoting myself and my line of work on a daily basis.As stated before I have an occasional part time job which keeps me going and I have looked for other part time jobs...but you know - not many people want to employ a guy in his 50's! But the mad thing about my situation is that next week I could get a job that could make me the main bread winner in the house this year. I also sell stuff on ebay...mainly things I have collected over the years...but stuff sells and it's money from ebay that's paying for my weekend away with the kids.Re the emotion CMMP - it was so hard to see her sat at the kitchen table -crying. We have been so very close over the years it was just a natural thing for me to do. But I take on board what you both say - and next time I'll be strong and keep my distance but tell her that I'm there if she wants to talk.We are going to that concert together tomorrow night - an international singer that we both admire. It'll be odd but neither of us really want to waste the tickets. Then, she is off to visit her parents while I take the boys away for the weekend - so I won't see her at all for almost five days.I doubt if she'll text either as the kids have mobile phones themselves these days.So her mood on Tuesday evening will be interesting. I know she'll miss the boys like hell but as this is the first time I've been away on my own with them will she also miss the 'family' weekend break?
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A
male
reader, CMMP +, writes (21 May 2014):
I would have been there for her verbally, but obviously intimacy with you at this point is not on her wish list, so you should avoid it. Right now it's more likely to push her away then bring her back.
If it's appropriate again you will probably have no doubt because she'll be happy with you. Not just for a day or two, but for a week or two, probably more.
Next time just tell her that if there's anything you can do for her to help her feel better let you know. And leave it at that.
I really think you need to force yourself to give her more space. I know it seems counter intuitive, but I've seen it both ways before and that's what worked.
At this point you should be a great dad and great roommate. Also be the guy she fell in love with MINUS any intimacy, loving words, romance, etc.
And if money is the problem, work your ass of trying to find people that will pay you money!
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A
female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (21 May 2014):
I see, she feels she is carrying you financially. So does she think you are being lazy then? Being honest, are you picking up the housework or is she doing that as well? Hope you don't mind me asking, but speaking personally, I know it can be a source of trouble! I presume in the past it has been the other way around with you earning more? Remember the amount that you have contributed is the sum of its parts, not what has happened in the last year or so.Does she think that you could be looking for more work and resents perhaps what she perceives as a lack of effort on that front?It may be time to start looking for because with her or without her you are going to need a decent wage. There must be something stopping you from doing this already. Do you know what it is? I remember you mentioning a job she wanted you to take, which you said was too badly paid. Would it have been possible to negotiate the rate? I believe she wants you to show willing. One thing I know is that one job leads to another. Would you have taken the work if it might have improved her feeling for you? Because I think it might have helped...what do you think?If you have a trade it is much easier to promote these days thanks to social media and the internet. I, for example, have started selling French vintage stuff on eBay. It's great. We have a family home in France too, so I buy stuff, bring it back and sell it.No, I would not be cuddling her. I am getting a picture. She wants to be free to do all of the things she dreams of. But, despite working hard she feels that the rewards she is entitled to, are being sabotaged by heavy passengers who are not contributing. The children can be forgiven, but she can't forgive you!Do you think so too?
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A
male
reader, TomWales +, writes (21 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - I think that one of the main reasons - if not the main reason -for my wife wanting to separate is due to the fact that I am not earning enough. She was not happy this week when A) I had to pay for dental treatment. She didn't understand why I had to have the treatment. But as my crown had fallen off to reveal a rotten tooth underneath I was advised by my dentist to remove the rotten tooth and fit a new crown. This is what I did. I have an occasional part time job - and the money from this job paid for the treatment. She was livid. and B) I had to buy a new tyre for the car as the other had 'split' and wasn't safe to drive with. As I'm going away next weekend with the kids I didn't want anything going wrong when I'm driving along the motorway. This was also paid from the wages of my part time job. Again - she wasn't happy. So yesterday she went to the bank to change our account from a joint to separate accounts. I was a bit angry that she'd done this without telling me but I let it go and said nothing when she told me the bank had refused her as her credit rating wasn't all it should be.I felt sorry for her to be honest. She'd also had a bad day at work and tears were shed over our daily cuppa and chat. But when I went to hold her - to console her - I could feel the tension in her body telling me to leave her alone. This is so hard for me. I hate seeing anyone being upset but when it's my wife it's hard not to react in a loving way - even though we are going through domestic hell at the moment. Should I have just left her to cry? Walked away?
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A
female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (19 May 2014):
Of course it is OK. You all need use of the French house to save money, so she will have to cooperate over dates. I suppose she isn't planning to hog it for the whole summer?! (Apologies for sounding miffed when I don't even know her).This situation is not logical, in any way, is it? She sounds really angry and I just can not believe that is fair to direct it at you like this. Would you forgive me saying that it comes across as almost petulant? I wouldn't treat a friend as she is treating you, changing my mind, causing doubt and confusion. This situation is unsettling enough. Can you ask her to start being clear and to stop changing her mind when you have agreed things? Can you remind her that, as her friend, you need to have clear and unchanging plans for the summer holidays. I know that she wants to "get out", but is it necessary to be cruel to you? Ask her why she is angry with you. You can't help existing. It would be better if you could cooperate pleasantly.
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male
reader, TomWales +, writes (19 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - my concern at the moment is that she says one thing one week then changes her mind the next.I mentioned the concert we intend attending this week. I asked her two weeks ago what her intention was and her answer was "As we're still friends I don't see why we can't go together". Now it's "Can't you find someone else to go with you?". Bit late as the concert is on Thursday night and I've paid £70 each for the tickets. Two weeks ago when I asked I could have sold the tickets on ebay or arranged something else. The only way I could go with someone else is to give the other ticket away - I couldn't expect someone to pay £70 at this short notice.The same with France. To begin with she said we could still go on holidays as a family of four but now she's telling me to take the kids on holiday on my own (and not to the house in France). To be honest if I could afford it I would. But the house in France is the only option as flights are cheap and no accommodation costs.As we can't sell our house for another 12 months - and she's not happy about that - could this be her way of retaliating and showing me how pissed off she is with the situation? At the moment it's so hard to read her mind. When I prepare food for the family - this weekend - she has said "I'll make my own lunch" but then yesterday afternoon, due to the lovey weather, I prepared some bowls of strawberries and cream for me and the kids to eat in the garden. "where's mine?" she asked!! I offered to prepare her a bowl as well but then she went off in a huff. I can't win! I don't want to be a lapdog but I don't want her to take advantage of me either.I also hope that this tough period I'm going through at the moment will get better and do hope that maybe she'll see the light. Re the bed situation - if we had a spare bedroom I think she would have moved into it by now. As we don't - the only other option is the couch!I have told my two closest friends but don't want to tell anyone else as it's such a small-ish community here word would get out and tongues would start wagging etc etc. She's told about 6 of her friends and she gets advice I'm sure from one of them who happens to be a counselor. My two friends are both good 'counselors' as you are Cattycakes - and I appreciate your words so much ( as I do CMMP as well). I juts feel that the anonymity here helps as well and helps me to get things off my chest. I hope this is ok?
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (19 May 2014):
Good news about the phone. I would have thought there would be something there if that guy was making moves. Since she has been honest, perhaps there is just some peripheral flirting there and nothing more. Hope so.
There is a whole lot of difference between taking a weekend away, thereby allowing both of you some space, and banning you from the family summer holiday. I can't tell whether that she said is a reaction to your plan to take your kids away by yourself, or not. It would be very unfair to punish you for taking the initiative.
What does she want your children to know? I believe they will notice you not being together for the summer....just a bit. She can not tell you that you can't go! There are also exams to consider.
There is a whole lot to discuss with her and the boundaries need to be clear. You need to be able to add your own wishes to this, it can't be totally led by her. If she wants to be by herself she could go to your French house for a couple of weeks and you could bring the kids, and stay there. There are many potential compromises. Until she is more up front how can you even suggest them.
I get the sense that you are needing to second guess, are trying to make small moves and she is making things really difficult. It certainly does not feel logical. I do not have a clue why you are still in the same bed. Is it to avoid alerting the kids or a hangover to old times.... stumped if I know.
I am getting a bit concerned because it seems that each time you make a small move in a good direction, she retaliates. I makes me feel concerned for you and out of my depth.
Would she see someone with you, to make this process easier on both of you and get some sort of plans straight!? Call it separation counselling. I still do think, by the way, that there is a good chance you will reunite. I suspect though, that there is quite a lot to go through before you will know. Are you keeping this from your friends or have you managed to discuss it with anyone else?
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reader, TomWales +, writes (18 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes....yes, this guy has been a kind of Camilla Parker Bowles in our relationship. One lovely thing about my wife was that she was ALWAYS honest and would tell me everything. It was she that told me one evening when I was away working the guy called for a coffee. They used to meet for coffee when I was around - it didn't bother me as I often meet up with female friends for coffee. But this evening when I was away he called round and tried it on with her buy putting her hand on his crotch. She instantly pulled away and he replied by saying "Come on - no one will know" This from the guy who I played football with!!! Since that evening - about 15yrs ago - I have asked her not to have anything to do with him. She has refused. I've asked her to put herself in my situation. What if one of my female friends had tried it on with me - would she be happy that I met them for coffee or went for a drink or a meal with them? I doubt if she'd be happy with that. One of my female friends is very beautiful but we have been mates for years and years and we are more like brother and sister and she's always been there for me and supported me as a friend. My wife is very jealous of her and if she had placed my hand down her jumper she'd have good reason to be. But I can assure you NOTHING like that would ever happen. And yes - I tell my wife everything...where I am...who I'm with. There is no point in not being truthful.I have not asked her about this guy this weekend and I've taken CMMP's advice. But alas - I have checked her mobile phone. Nothing on there - not one dodgy text. She may be clever and has deleted the texts she doesn't want me to see. But to be honest she has a code on her phone...and she has no idea that I know the code. (Out of the mouth of babes....)Today has been strange. I had about 3 hours sleep last night...couldn't sleep - just thinking about her and the other guy.Wondering if there was anything going on.I mentioned to her that there was a gig I'd like to see at a festival in the summer. It was at this festival we met 34 years ago!! She goes every year with the kids - camping. I'm not a huge fan of the tent and have not been going often. I couldn't last year due to work. Anyway - she's not happy that I'm thinking of going this year and has said that I can't sleep in the tent with her and the kids on the evening of the gig!(Although we are still sleeping in the same bed at home!)She has also said she doesn't want me to come with them to our house in France in August either.This is a shock as she told me a few weeks ago that she wanted us to carry on having family holidays together till the kids have left home.I couldn't afford any other kind of holiday this year and I told her that I was going to the house in France those same two weeks as it's the only holiday I'll have with my children. Is her head as mixed up as mine?
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (18 May 2014):
I sent a fuller answer which doesn't seem to have been published. Anyway, your instinct has prickled you. It isn't the same as guessing or overthinking. It is a moment when a penny drops, or a block of cold lead falls into the stomach. Those intuitive feelings need to be respected. I am not saying that you are right, but whenever I have had those insights, they did prove to be important. It is possible to get skewed on the detail, but the overall message probably warrants consideration.There are still a lot of "ifs". I hope that your wife is not having an affair with that man or anyone else. I hope that you have the truth. Anyway if you ask she will deny and be alerted and hide things better etc. It is not worth confronting without undeniable evidence. Plus, remember what you want to achieve before you do that. In my case I would want to know and if there was foul play, bring it all out into the open and face the ramifications. Others would not want to do that and would wait for the storm to pass.
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (18 May 2014):
CMMP's reply is very realistic, again. Whereas my instinct is to want to know and therefor investigate, his is to wait it out and simply tell her your expectations.
I don't envy you, how very painful and difficult this must be.
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (18 May 2014):
This is your instinct speaking. Pay it some respect. The previous lies justify your feelings totally. Of course it all needs handling with care and you must not mention it at all if you want to carefully follow it up. Is this who she sees on Wednesdays when out with people from work?I know how hard it is when you suspect but feel disloyal in checking things out.Can you see differences in your arrangements in going for a drink with your female friends? Do you tell your wife where and if she turned up would she be welcome? I bet she would be and she knows where you are.I smell something like a rat, but perhaps it is just me. Having been in this situation myself and been correct about my instincts, I may not be the best person to advise. My view is tainted. I expect that you will follow this up. If you do, go carefully. I really hope it is not true.
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reader, CMMP +, writes (18 May 2014):
I think at this stage your judgment is probably clouded, so it's hard to say if there was anything going on. I know that when things were rough between my wife and I every time her phone twitched I got paranoid.
One thing you need to realize is that you can't stop someone from cheating by "being there". She needs space, she wanted to talk to someone away from you and you took that away from her. It's no surprise she walked away whether the conversation was inappropriate or not. And it's also perfectly possible that they're close friends.
The more you look over her shoulder the more she will resent you. If she really wants this guy there's nothing you can do about it unfortunately.
If I was you I'd have a talk with her about your expectations. Tell her that as long as the two of you are married you expected to be faithful, whether she is happy with you or not. And after all the years we've been together that's the least you (she) can do.
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reader, TomWales +, writes (18 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes...we both went to a 'gig' last night in our local pub. All was well until a guy from my wife's work turned up. He's been in our lives for years - married guy with kids himself - but it's obvious he's always fancied my wife. He always calls round when I'm away with work - never when I'm at home. They met when they worked together about 25years ago. My wife left that job after about two years and has had a few jobs since. But alas who got a job in the same place as my wife about two years ago - HIM!He and his wife also moved house not far from ours about a year ago!! This friendship has made me a little paranoid as there have been occasions over the years when my wife has lied to me about her whereabouts e.g she tells me she's out with someone and I smell a rat and turn up in another pub and find her there with this guy and his mates. Her reasoning is that if she told me she was going for a drink with HIM I'd go mad. She tells me that it's just a friendship - the same as my friendship with a few female friends I have.But last night during the gig my wife and I were stood by the bar and she suddenly left and went to the beer garden. There is a ladies toilet there as well and I was under the impression that's where she was heading - until I saw HIM acting odd and sheepish as he walked past me and went to the beer garden. I gave it a beat then went out as well. My wife wasn't in the loo but talking with HIM in the beer garden. I joined them. Within 60 seconds she decided to go back into the pub. Am I being paranoid or could there be something going on? I didn't ask her about it today knowing she'd go mad as she always does when I ask about HIM.It's been hard today as I think here am I trying to save our marriage hoping that she's not making a fool of me.
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (15 May 2014):
Well done! I am so happy that you got your time away booked. Interesting that he got angry about you going to the cinema don't you think? I certainly do. Asking how you can afford/take the time is just her way of showing a slight miff. She will really not like being excluded and this feeling may emerge in other ways as the holiday date draws near. It would do no harm to encourage her to go away herself. I know you will miss her but the psychology behind it is interesting. She will wonder why, despite herself, that you would encourage her to leave your side. Many congrats, keep up the good stuff, you are doing great. Not taking the badly paid job sounds sensible as you may get a better offer. What do you do?
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reader, TomWales +, writes (14 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes....once again I have taken your advice and booked a short break for just me and the kids.The kids are quite excited about it. Although my wife is kind of happy I'm 'doing' something with the kids she keeps asking questions like ' how can you afford it?'. To be honest it's not costing much as there was a special deal on the internet. This will be the first time for me to go away with the children - just us three. She has been on many occasions as being self employed I have to take the work when it comes.(I missed three years of holidays due to work coming in at the last moment) Since the horrible weekend we have been getting on fine and I have been cooking and doing jobs round the house etc. This makes her happy and to be honest I enjoy cooking. The only thing that makes her angry - and tho she hasn't reacted in a bad way she has reacted to the fact that I went to the cinema this afternoon with a friend. As she works all day she doesn't see it fair that I can just drop tools and do whatever I like.I have friends who are not honest with their wives and wouldn't dream of telling them they'd been to the cinema during the day - I'm not like that and never have been. I've always been open and honest. But she has said that we are 'not together' any longer but she still gets angry when I'm doing things without her. Also a job was up for grabs but for peanuts - I decided as the money was next to nothing not to try for the job. Her reaction is that 'peanuts' is better than nothing. Don't get me wrong - I'm not afraid of hard work and have done many a job for peanuts - but after over 30yrs of doing what I do - self-respect is important to me and the job on offer was the kind of job any amateur could do. She wasn't happy tho'.Tea time routine is still the same as ever - she comes home from work and over a coffee tells me about her day - but then it's up to the bedroom to read until it's time to eat and then she has a bath and bed. So it's only about half an hour every day we now speak to each other.I'm feeling better with myself and don't get so upset these days but how long will it last? I'm trying to get on with my life as much as possible. The only thing is in the cinema this afternoon I was wishing my wife would have been with me and not my friend!!
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (12 May 2014):
Not wanting you to see her naked is not odd seeing as she wants to separate.... not sure why you think it is? Mind, sleeping in bed together still is, so combined rather a bag of mixed messages. Her shopping list is child like. Aspirational activities but why add them to a list for you to see? To make you ask about them, then tell you off? She could just go ahead and do them. Where is the drama, or why make it dramatic? If you had the money would you go away? I say that because there is always a way, stay with friends, camp, whatever. You might consider this sometime. I just think that thing may move your way more quickly if you made a move of one sort. A liberating move for her. In the meantime things will probably plod on. I hope you are managing to enjoy the sunshine, perfect camping weather. Take the kids and leave her behind with an excuse to suit you both. Don't take her with you for G's sake. She wants the time so make her have it. She will wish she came, if you give her the chance, but if you take her it will be just like the concert.
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reader, TomWales +, writes (11 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - yes so do I. Thank you CMMP. This weekend has been a strange one. She has been ratty on occasions and other times has been fine.Out of the blue last night - while watching TV - she said it was 'that time of the month'for her. Was this a kind of apology? Why did I need to know otherwise? This weekend she has also taken to changing her clothes in the bathroom. I have seen her naked body on a daily basis since we were in our late teens. But since the talk of separation she obviously doesn't want me to see her naked. I find this odd. I did the weekly shop - as usual - today. She'd made a list of things she wanted from the supermarket. Also on the list were words like 'going for a ride', 'sofa', 'going out'. When I asked what they meant and who she was 'going for a ride' with (as she doesn't want to do anything with me) she went mad again telling me that I was talking like a detective and those were there for her and not for me!! But why write them on the shopping list she was giving to me? It seems this weekend I can't win. I only wish my financial situation was better and maybe as you suggest I could go away on my own for a weekend to give her some space.
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (11 May 2014):
PPS I really like CMMP's answer. Shame one of you can't do VSO or something.
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (11 May 2014):
If you are both truly stuck, stay pleasant but start living your life and as some of the others say, give her a load of space. Be friendly but not a loving husband, not intimate.
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (11 May 2014):
With hindsight do you think sticking to your concert plan would have been best? I suspect maybe. I also think her explosion was about feeling cross with herself for caving in. Then cross with you. Old habits and comforts die hard!
I suspect you will get better at it during the next year... You won't get anywhere in prickling at her deepest needs by being so transparent. She is not going to even start feeling the loss of your company. When there's cookies in the jar who wants cookies!?
If anything she could well become more impatient with you. You might think the delay is good...not sure I agree, in the slightest. It may make things worse. Your goes at being tough aren't really working are they?!
Doesn't she have a friend she could go to for a while?
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reader, CMMP +, writes (10 May 2014):
That situation is both good and bad. At least being away from each other could give her time to miss and appreciate you. Without a little space she may start resenting you. So I'd definitely give her room.
My wife and I went through a similar situation. We were on the verge of a divorce and had we not been stuck in our house she may have left. She had a lot of stress in her life at that time so it made our issues even worse.
Coincidentally she had prearranged a trip to Switzerland to be with her sister when she gave birth. That month apart was very important and worked miracles in helping us appreciate each other again. We would speak on the phone and simply enjoy the conversation without any other pressure. I think we both remembered how much we like each other.
So my advice is to maybe wait a little to turn on the charm. Give her some space. Let her initiate relationship conversations and occasionally do something nice for her without any expectations.
Good luck.
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reader, TomWales +, writes (10 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - the situation has changed a little since last time. We have been told that as we have missed one mortgage payment last month - we have to wait for 12 months before either of us would be able to get another mortgage. This means that we're stuck here for at least 12 months. You can imagine I was happy with that as it gives me more time to sort out the situation be it proving to my wife that love can be rekindled - or just to sort out my life and finances before the actual separation.Last night we were supposed to be going to a concert with different friends. She decided not to go as she wasn't feeling up to it....so I suggested I'd cook us all a nice meal and I wouldn't go with my friends either. At first she told me to go to the concert but then suggested by text that a meal would be nice and then we could watch a film on TV maybe with a bottle of wine. This is what happened and it was a nice evening.But - and there's always a but somewhere - this morning she is in a hell of a mood and when I asked 'what's wrong?' she just exploded and said 'What's wrong? what do you think?' I will have to play it cool for the next 12 months. I don't want to be her lap-dog either. How do you think I should react? Carry on as normal? Carry on being a loving husband? Doing the things she wants? Living my own life? Oh dear!
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reader, TomWales +, writes (7 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - that was me earlier...out and about and it did not register that the message was from me!Cattycakes - once again I must thank you for getting back to me. I took your advice re the book - but alas couldn't get past the first few pages as it harps on about Christianity. As an atheist this means nothing to me. People are people - it doesn't matter if they believe in a 'god' or not. A shame really as I was looking forward to reading the book. The latest situation here is that my wife has made arrangements for a financial adviser to call round this week to see how much we could afford on a house each. I have told her I won't be there as I do not want to sell. I have also had some advice telling me if I refused to sell we'd have to take it to court and the court eventually could insist I have to sell. But on the other hand - due to our individual financial situations - she may have to contribute to my mortgage every month. She doesn't know this. Neither does she know that her pension will have to be divided between us even though she's 7 years away from being able to claim her pension. This all sounds horrible - but as you said I have to become a little tougher. I so wish I hated her as it would be easier. But I don't. She is hurting me daily - mentally not physically - but I still love her so much.
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reader, TomWales +, writes (7 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - once again I must thank you for getting back to me. I took your advice re the book - but alas couldnt get past the first few pages as it harps on about Christianity. As an atheist this means nothing to me. People are people - it doesn't matter if they believe in a 'god' or not. A shame really as I was looking foreward to reading the book. The latest situation here is that my wife has made arrangements for a financial advisor to call round this week to see how much we could afford on a house each. I have told her I won't be there as I do not want to sell. I have also had some advice telling me if I refused to sell we'd have to take it to court and the court eventually could insist I have to sell. But on the other hand - due to our individual financial situations - she may have to contribute to my mortgage every month. She doesn't know this. Neither does she know that her pension will have to be divided between us even though she's 7 years away from being able to claim her pension. This all sounds horrible - but as you said I have to become a little tougher. I so wish I hated her as it would be easier. But I don't. She is hurting me daily - mentally not physically - but I still love her so much.
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (7 May 2014):
Sounds as though you are doing really well. I know what you mean about the Christian angle to that book. I admit I used it myself, but I had to overlook the religious side and filtered the common sense bits. I liked the way it invited a person to respond in a way that they would not normally, the element of surprise. Neither do I have religious streak. I just parcel all religions into a hope that there is more to this life and into a wish that humanity may sometimes be wise, caring and humane. Shame the opposite is often true!
Let us know how you go.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 May 2014): Cattycakes - once again I must thank you for getting back to me. I took your advice re the book - but alas couldnt get past the first few pages as it harps on about Christianity. As an atheist this means nothing to me. People are people - it doesn't matter if they believe in a 'god' or not. A shame really as I was looking foreward to reading the book. The latest situation here is that my wife has made arrangements for a financial advisor to call round this week to see how much we could afford on a house each. I have told her I won't be there as I do not want to sell. I have also had some advice telling me if I refused to sell we'd have to take it to court and the court eventualy could insist I have to sell. But on the other hand - due to our individual financial situations - she may have to contribute to my mortgage every month. She doesn't know this. Neither does she know that her pension will have to be devided between us even though she's 7 years away from being able to claim her pension. This all sounds horrible - but as you said I have to become a little tougher. I so wish I hated her as it would be easier. But I don't. She is hurting me daily - mentalt not physically - but I still love her so much.
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (7 May 2014):
Not that I think you will need those other ladies, I hope you save your marriage.
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reader, cattycakes +, writes (7 May 2014):
I do think walking from the room is the correct idea because it shows that there are consequences for talking to you as she has. Not nasty, but your feelings are affected. The thing I do not understand is how she will take her independence and above herself of responsibility for the children, yet still live in the same house as them with you elsewhere. The grudge about the holiday makes no sense at all. She is just angry.It seems that there is a great sense of never having been able to be herself in her life. Always having to sacrifice for others but not fulfilling some part of herself and this feels really important, probably because of her age.Yet when you press her she gets angry, probably because she is scared. Also, she doesn't perhaps know what it is that he wants to achieve? You know that book I recommended, I did that for serious reasons, please consider getting it.There is no clear way forward. I really think that the sooner she can start living her free life, the sooner sh e may see that being part of a family and having your children, has helped her achieve a great deal in life that he would never have without. Being loved and loving is part of it. There needs to be a plan because things need to move forward. I think some joint counselling and some that is for you separately would be very helpful. Sell it to her that you are going to stop trying to make her change her mind and now this plan needs to move forward. But please get the book first as it will help you much better than me, in preventing you from slipping up and providing you with the guts to see it through. All with the best intention, which is to bring her back alongside if that is possible. The best means that you have of saving things, is actually starting to toughen up. Ironic though that sounds. The question that you need answered is, "what next"? You can not possibly live in this limbo for long, it is cruel and bad for your health. She needs to take this story by the reins and contribute more than tears now. She needs to start being much more practical and explain the steps and timescales. I repeat do not agree to move out or give anything up. Tell her that you do not intend to move out and will be taking advice, although you hope to help her separate from you as much as possible. There is no point in forcing and she will be shocked to hear you say that you do not want to be with someone who does not love you. The fact that you wish things were otherwise is neither here nor there. You have to work with the facts as she gives you them. There is no way you will see this at the moment, but there are many loving and wonderful ladies out there who would die with happiness to be with someone as kind an caring as you and you have a happy future ahead of you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 May 2014): I don't know if this will work, but here is an idea.
You could say to your wife, that before she makes her final decision about the separation, you want her to spend two weeks loving you, and allowing you to love her, with all your hearts. Tell her if she can do that, for two weeks with you, then you will discuss separation with her if it is what she still wants.
If she agrees, then you have to put your MARRIAGE FIRST for those two weeks. Try to get away for a week, get some time off work, have your wife take time off work. Remove all stresses and commitments from your life that you can. Then love her. Do not watch or count or think about how she is loving you. Do not keep score on whether or not she is 'trying', YOU do 100% of the loving. I am not telling you to be a door mat, I am suggesting you love her with your eyes, your words, your touch, your mood, your temper. Hopefully rekindle some of the feelings that are still there, just buried so deep deep down.
I give you this suggestion, because there came a point in my life of me leaving my husband. I couldn't tell him for two weeks (for specific reasons), and had to carry on as normal for two weeks. In that time, knowing I would be telling him it is all over in two weeks time, I loved him with my words, actions, patience, kindness, gentleness. By the end of the two weeks, I was so in love with him again, and he felt his love for me again too..... long story but I will end mine there.
I have read other literature that supports this idea. Up to you if you think it might be worthwhile.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 May 2014): Dude - you just got a get out of jail free card - you should be celebrating. You are done having children, and now should be in your prime net-worth years. Get rid of the wife, get to the gym, and enjoy your new 30-something girlfriend! Congrats!
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reader, TomWales +, writes (4 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - No you didn't introduce the idea. But I have talked about the 'separation' with her today. But she got angry when I asked her to explain exactly what was her reasoning. Again the main reason is she wants to put herself first and not me and the kids. She blamed me for not being able to go on holiday a year last summer - and this is one of her reasons. We were broke. We couldn't afford to go. But she insists I didn't WANT to go. And that is so for from the truth. If I had the cash I'd be away on holidays all the time. She said if she had to look after her own money she would have been able to go that year. So it boils down to the fact she now resents the fact we have a joint account. She seems to forget that when she decided to go back to Uni for 4 years as a mature student that it was me that paid her Uni fees for 4 years (she didn't get a grant)and also paid the mortgage and bills etc etc. Ok we didn't have children then but all the same...I told her as well that since having children (eldest is 15) we have not had time off together. Most friends with kids have been for weekends - some for longer - without the children. Not us. I think this would have been good for us.After asking she has told me that there is NOT another man involved. It's just that she's had enough of our life together. She is adamant that our relationship is over I still think we could make something of it. After the conversation I left the room calmly and noticed she had tears in her eyes. This is not like my wife at all. These are the first tears I have seen coming from her since she broke the news.I wanted so much to hug her - but I left the room and sat on my own for a while. I'm still finding the situation very hard to cope with and I'm being positive about it all. Do you think this is the right way to be?
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (2 May 2014):
Just going out on Wednesdays is not much of a sign. I am sorry if I introduced the idea. I have been cheated on obadly in the past which probably caused me to refer to it. Not now thankfully. In the past I would have been checking things. I try not to be like that now. I once set my phone to silent, wrapped it in a few pairs of socks and hid it in my husband's car in the space where the spare wheel goes. I wanted to follow it using an online tracking service. I forgot about the "vibrate" setting when someone kept trying to call me. Lucky for me my husband thought it was very funny since I really don't do that sort of thing as a rule. It was one of those occasions when 2+2=20. Lucky he understands me. I do not think your wife would be very happy. I hope you know where she goes and who with but if you don't know it might be a bit difficult to ask without getting her hackles up. I am sorry I caused a doubt, you know her best.
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male
reader, CMMP +, writes (1 May 2014):
I wouldn't start wondering about cheating. So many people keep their phones close by at all times. It's only a sign of cheating when you're looking for that kind of thing. And going out with her friends on Wednesday sounds reasonable for a woman who wants some freedom. If she had a boyfriend there would be more signs and more irregularity.
I can't stress this enough, if you need to cry, don't do it in front of her! You don't win woman back with sympathy, you just lose their respect.
You'll get through this, no matter what. I know you want to keep the peace as much as possible but you do have your rights, regardless. If I was you instead of delaying potential bad news because you don't want to face it, I'd have a talk with her about her plans. If she really wants to move out then work on how to achieve that. Anything else is delaying the inevitable and preventing you from moving on with your life.
You guys have been together for so long that this kind of thing isn't really that surprising. If you keep your head together and don't make things worse, I'd be surprised if she didn't come back to you and want to try again in a few months.
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male
reader, TomWales +, writes (1 May 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCattycakes - once again I appreciate your advice. Once my finances are in order I have thought about going away for the weekend.But at the moment we have to tighten out belts a little and I feel guilty about this as most of my wife's earnings goes to pay the mortgage, loans and bills etc.The other worry at the moment is the lack of talk about separation. We haven't spoken about it at all for a while - not even when on holiday.(I broke down once in front of her (not the kids) on holiday and she told me not to spoil things as we were having such a nice holiday) We are civil towards each other - which I think is good, but it's as if I'm still waiting for the bomb to go off. The only time we spend together during the week (apart from sleeping in the same bed) is when we have a cuppa together after she get's home from work where she tells me all about her day etc. The rest of the evening she's in the bedroom reading or taking a bath.I have an important evening tonight related to my line of work. It's possible the 'party' could bring more work my way. Alas I will be going to this event alone - and normally we would attend together. I will have left the house before she gets home from work so will not see her - and as of yet she has not wished me well.I'd be kidding myself if I said that this didn't hurt a little as she's always been there to support me over the years.I have also started to become a little paranoid! Maybe there is someone else in her life. I've noticed she keeps her mobile with her at all times - even when she goes to the toilet or for a bath.She goes out most Wednesday nights with 'work friends' - this has only happened since she mentioned she wanted to separate.Maybe I should ask her about this - but I know she'll explode either because I'm right or even because I'm wrong! I believed her when she said to begin with she wanted to be alone and think of nobody but herself for a change - but I have started to think maybe she either didn't want to upset me more or didn't have the guts to tell me.As you can see - my head is in a mess - but I'm trying my best to get on with life as normal as possible.
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (30 April 2014):
It would do you no harm to start looking outside the home for some activities. You might insider going on a short break by yourself, doing activity that you always wanted to do. It might be a wrench but it would be healthy. For you, it would be a good break from the obvious pressures and would provide a first foot in to the outside world. It would be useful for her to see you taking the initiative. I know that you love her. A friend I knew who was in the same situation bought a book called something like "Love must be tough". She seemed to find it useful although her husband was seeing someone else. I have been presuming that your wife hasn't, but some of the principles apply. I suppose the key to dealing with this is moving away from a focus on her, to a focus that is more about you, because you need shoring up and a sharpened instinct for self preservation.
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male
reader, TomWales +, writes (29 April 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks Cattycakes. I appreciate your advice. She knows that my money situation is not good at the moment. Last year was a very good year for me work wise - but as all people who are self -employed know things can change quickly. She has mellowed a little since the initial "I don't love you any longer and I want us to separate". Where she suggested that I buy a one bedroomed flat for myself. It would be like living as a student all over again!! She understands now that the only way is to have similar houses. She couldn't understand to begin with why I wanted a 3 bedroomed house as she herself wants. When I mentioned the children she said "When they stay with you they can share a room". I wasn't happy with that as I know my kids and they'd hate sharing a room - so they wouldn't want to stay with me often, if at all. But as I said she now understands my reasoning behind wanting a 3 bedroomed house. This is if we do separate and move from this lovely family home we have been in for many a year.
Since she has told me she wants to separate I have been very upset and hurt and lonely. She has been my best friend since we were 18 and if I had a problem I would always turn to her first.This is now not the case. And as of my close friends I have only told one and apart from checking if I'm ok every now and again I have not been given any advice from him.
I sometimes think it would be better if I hated my wife but this is not the case. Even though the hurt and pain I still love her so much.
At the moment things are as 'normal' as possible. She goes to work. I'm at home being a house-husband. I cook for her and the kids. But as for relaxing together - she stays in our bedroom reading while I'm watching TV in the lounge. It just feels so odd but the main thing is we are not shouting at each other. But one day she will want to start talking about the separation in depth - but as you state I think she knows she just can't demand I leave this house because I couldn't afford to pay the mortgage on another property and by splitting the equity of this house I'd only be able to buy a small house in a rough area in the city - and that's not for me.
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (29 April 2014):
I can never be sure whether my responses go due to our awful internet access. Hence repetition. Apologies!
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (29 April 2014):
As the main breadwinner she would have to pay the montage if you stayed to look after the kids. Do not fall on your sword, she is taking you for granted. See a professional and find out. Start to protect your position and do not be a yes man. She has no concept of what she will lose and never will if you hand it to her on a plate. I do not mean to sound sharp but there is no way she will respect you if you submit to all of this. Holidays together!? Tell her only if future partners are happy with that. She won't like to hear you say things like that. I have a sense of her supreme confidence of your place as ever compliant lap dog in her new life as she sees it. I do not mean that you should be difficult, but please, she does not for a minute seem to have respect. She seems to think that you will comply with everything. Foot rubs!? You are not a servant to be dominated? Unless you grow some, I can see you going on holiday with her new boyfriend and you will be carrying their cases.
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (29 April 2014):
She may have to continue paying the montage if you stay and look after the kids. That is why you need advice. She is the main wage earner, so is in the position that men usually are. Please do not fall on your sword. She needs to understand the reality of the loss of your family unit. Home, holidays, foot rubs and all. I would be tempted to suggests that you tell her you are both free to date! Rather childish, do ignore. I suspect she won't like it. She is taking a lot for granted. Wake up call wanted. She is supremely confident that you will be a lap dog for life. I see little respect and recommend that you do your best to toughen up. Like setting her free, it is equally important that you do this if the relationship is going to have a hope. You sound such a lovely man. Make her wake up by saying the odd "NO". If she suggests those shared holidays say it will depend on how any partner felt about it.
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (29 April 2014):
Another thing to stress. If she wants to separate it must be her that goes. Do not leave your family home. You have every right to stay there and continue to care for your children. She needs to be clear how this separation will be achieved. If you move out and she becomes main carer she will have a strong position in terms of your property. Get some advice from a solicitor.
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male
reader, TomWales +, writes (29 April 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks llifton for your answer. I have read in articles and books and have been told by friends that the death of a close relative triggers something in ones head to think of life as a whole. This happened to me when I lost my mother. My wife had been going on about buying a house in France. I wasn't keen on the idea as I am self-employed and thinking we had to look after all our pennies just in case of times like now when there's hardly any work about for me. But when my mother passed away I did think about life and how short it can be - so decided to go along with buying a house in France.We co-own this house now. She wants to buy me out but this is my pension in a way - when the house is done up we had intended to rent it out to holiday makers etc to create an income in our old age. So I have put my foot down here and said I do NOT want to sell my half of the house to her. She has taken that on board and she - at the moment - is fine with the idea.Cattycakes - thank you also for your advice. I agree about the home situation and it upsets me to think I will have to leave the house that has been the family home since 1990.If she leaves I wont be able to afford the mortgage repayments on my own. She has even mentioned the idea of buying smaller houses - one each - in the same street or area of the city where we live now. She wants to carry on going on family holidays together - all four of us. I am just confused with her way of thinking at the moment. I purchased two tickets to see a singer she likes this coming weekend. She went mad and told me we can't do things as a couple any longer. Yet while on holiday last week, while we were relaxing in the apartment she asked me to give her a foot massage! So I did. I just don't understand what's going on in her head.I love her so much and would love to talk about it with her but I know she will get angry if I asked questions about what she is really thinking and why she wants to be on her own.So at the moment I am avoiding any conflict and trying to get on with daily life as best as possible. It's hard and on occasions I break down when I'm on my own.
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (28 April 2014):
Another thing to stress. If she wants to separate it must be her that goes. Do not leave your family home. You have every right to stay there and continue to care for your children. She needs to be clear how this separation will be achieved. If you move out and she becomes main carer she will have a strong position in terms of your property. Get some advice from a solicitor.
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female
reader, llifton +, writes (27 April 2014):
 I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this.
The death of her sibling may have something to do with this, however, I don't think it's the main cause. Nor the money issue directly. I think it was her siblings death that INDIRECTLY caused this. It sounds like what she's saying is that the death made her open up her eyes and realize you only have one life to live and that she wants to ultimately be happy. And I think she's decided that overall, she's apparently not happy anymore.
Best thing you can do is as everyone else has said - give her her space like she's asked for. I know it's hard, but it has to be done. It's your best shot at getting her back. As has been mentioned, perhaps some time away will rejuvinate your relationship and give it that spark back that it needs.
I know this is hard. Incredibly hard. This is the woman who has helped raise your children and whom you've spent your entire adult life with. One day at a time. But do give her what she's asking for. She may just come back.
Best of luck to you. Keep your head up.
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male
reader, TomWales +, writes (27 April 2014):
TomWales is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThe whole situation is more complicated than in my first statement. I have loved my wife since we met at 18yrs of age. We are now both in our 50's. One main reason for her wanting to seperate is as I noted - after the death of her sibling she has been thinking about her life. And what she wants to do with her life.She is the main money earner at the moment as I am - and always have been - self-employed. At this stage in our lives my work does not bring in loads of money and she resents this. Though a few years back I was earning double what she did and paid for our lovely house and four years of fees for her to go back to University for her degree. Swings and rounderbouts - that's what a relationship should be. So now I am down on my luck she decides that this is not for her and she wants to keep all her money to herself. I just find it hard to understand it all. We have just had a great holiday together with the children. At times just like the old times. But the money issue cropped up during the holiday. (Though it was me that paid for the majority of it) I dread the next few days/weeks and what's going to happen. The children know nothing. The eldest has exams soon!! It's all a mess in my head and I'm loosing sleep worrying about it all.
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female
reader, cattycakes +, writes (27 April 2014):
Get yourself someone 10years younger? Pity's sake CMMP! I can see you love her. Real love can be hard to find. It involves comparability, not just age, or hair colour or anything else. You also have a shared history, which creates a very strong bond. However, the rest of the advice is correct. The only choice you have is to set her free, nothing will make her run further or faster than a tightened grip. If she sees that she could, in effect live with a lot of freedom and be by your side, it may change her thought that to be free she needs to be away from you. The easier you make this for her the more quickly she will get it. It does not mean that you will stay together, but it provides the best chance of that.During this process you may find reason to thank her, your life may open up and you may meet someone else or get to do things you would not have dreamed of. I am really sorry that you are going through this pain as it will be with you for a while yet. However the chances of life turning out well one way or another are very good.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 April 2014): How can you make YOU love her enough to let her have some thinking space. As hard as this is for you the kindest thing you can do for YOU, is leave her alone and who knows, she may just realise she still loves you and misses you. The more you cling the more she'll push you away.
Hold sand in your palm and it stays but hold too tight onto the sand and watch the grains slip out through your fingers....try it.
Please be strong and don't fear change this can be a renewal of something that has stagnated and needs change.
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male
reader, CMMP +, writes (26 April 2014):
The more you try to force things at this point, the more likely it is she'll never want to hear from you again. Be a man and go along with the separation 110%.
Enjoy your freedom. There's a possibility that seeing this will cause her to second guess her decision. At that point the two of you can begin dating again. This time don't take her for granted. Treat her like you first met her.
If you beg, pester, talk, etc, she'll lose all respect she has for you and you'll make both of you miserable.
The honest truth is you don't love her as much as it feels like you do right now. It's the rejection that makes your feeling so strong. Also, the habit of having her around. Get yourself a girl ten years younger and see how you feel.
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male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (26 April 2014):
 Sorry, Tom... but you can't "MAKE her love you".... any more than you can MAKE her like Cocoa Puffs.....
I suggest that YOU pay attention to YOU.... your goings-on, your wants, needs and desires.... Let HER go on her way... as she has asked.... and - sometime in the future - she may want to re-constitute things with you....
IF she doesn't (want to get back together), then reconcile that your marriage is now over and you have to move on.
IF she DOES (want to get back together), then make that the "opener" whereupon you and she sit down, determine what a marriage (YOUR marriage) is, and how to proceed with it....
Good luck....
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reader, anonymous, writes (26 April 2014): You can't make anyone feel anything. You could ask her if she'd like to go for lunch wherever she wants though. That is NOT a date or a way for you to try to make her love you again; it's just to be nice.
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female
reader, Brokenv  +, writes (26 April 2014):
So sorry to hear this Tom. You can't make someone love you.....but you can be her friend. Give her the time and space she needs. She just may come back.Good Luck
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