A
male
age
41-50,
*anInTheBox
writes:Well, I know this topic comes up a lot but here I go anyways:I'm dating this girl for the last 5 months. She has been always open about her attitude about sex, and admitted to me that she has had a lot of threesomes, hook ups and ongoing on and off open relationships in her past (until very recently before we started our thing). Now, at the beginning I thought "Hmm I'm cool with that" (and I really felt like that) but every time the conversation brings those topics up, I feel less and less comfortable. Last time, she admitted replying once a Craiglist ad from two guys that were looking for a threesome, and even meeting one of them -but nothing happened-. When I heard this I felt quite uneasy, and I found it quite questionable. I don't know. I've always thought I was open minded but these is a very heavy load for me to bear. Maybe I could be dealing with a "one-time-experimental-threesome experience"...but more than...I don't know...5-10 times?? FFM and MMF?? Damn!!I love this girl. She is smart, affectionate, honest, beautiful (inside and outside) and open-minded....but I cannot figure out if her past is a reflection of a very strong position towards taking control of her sexuality, or if she was simply a slut. I was raised very conservative and I know that is not the way to go....but I don't believe in the other extreme either...How can I get rid of these emotions and judgmental feelings?Should I get rid of them?I'm really having a hard time drawing a line between what is right and wrong here...(btw I already watch "Chasing Amy") Thanks in advance!
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male
reader, ManInTheBox +, writes (23 February 2012):
ManInTheBox is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell, I guess it is pretty clear, after the answers I've received here and the facts come to light lately, that the behaviour of my GF was more likely to be triggered by the experiences during her childhood rather than by her being open minded or slutty, word that I shouldn't have used, but I didn't have the insight to the situation that I have now. It is still difficult for me to process the information about the abortions...and I really don't know how that information will affect my feelings... I hope I can just accept and stay with her... She is such an special woman...
Thanks to everyone for your answers...
A
reader, anonymous, writes (22 February 2012): Agreed. As you age and with time and dealing and coping, you mature and get better at managing such things so the wild behaviour settles down and she has reached a point where she knows the past and her behaviours and actions no longer are doing any good. So for her, progress. Its unfortunate that this is a path many vicitms/survivors take in recovery of their body, their mind and in healing with such a trauma.They liken sexual abuse to victims of war and soliders of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as sexual abuse victims live in a constant state of adrenaline of fear of being abused so in ways; its like coming down off of drugs.She needs to get to counselling to further her resolve of letting go of her sexual escapism from rape/abuse and gain better coping tools as well as identify her triggers.I think she is doing fabulous. No one understands her better than survivors of incest/abuse as well as others and Therapists that deal with such victims.There are good books to read about what sexual abuse/trauma/rape does to children and just how psychologically severe and life lasting the horror is for said individuals. People suffer night terrors well into their 60s, 70s over such things. Some who have gone without counselling still don't realize how draining such things are on their physcial health and mental health.The term Slut does not suit the crime of what occured to this woman. She had something taken from her that could never be given back or recovered. Rape,incest, sexual abuse is often likened to Murder. The crimes committed against her will remain with her to her grave. A daily battle and struggle of her taking back her self worth, repairing her self image, rebuilding her self love, her self esteem and telling herself she DESERVES LOVE, HONOUR, RESPECT and SAFETY like any OTHER Woman that walks this Earth.So let's drop that HATE CRIME label that ignorant people like to toss about so freely; believing they are better. Bullcrap.
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female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (22 February 2012):
 "it seems that the boyfriends at that time weren't "Dad" material" (ManInTheBox)And the sensible woman knew at that time she would have been an unfit mother and would have badly damaged her own child.... What would she have done to the child, if she was in emotional pain, lacking in self-love, unable to properly take care of herself and being reckless with sex and with love?Remember the woman she was then is not the woman she is now. Promiscuous sex under those conditions is self-harm and self-abuse, just as like as drink/drug abuse, self-mutilation, suicide attempts and the many things that men and women do to block out past childhood abuse. The woman you meet now is honest, confident, brave, strong, and all them other beautiful things you said."If you cant deal with it, then do her a favor and leave her alone, the last thing she wants is for a man to judge her and make her feel like a "slut", when all she was doing was making her own choices." (anonymous 123)Do not add to her pain and I don't believe you will or you wouldn't be here. The only amendment is, she wasn't really making her own choices, she was desperately trying to escape her pain.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (22 February 2012): She was an adult and she was responsible for her own actions. Decide whether or not you want to be with her accordingly.
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male
reader, ManInTheBox +, writes (21 February 2012):
ManInTheBox is verified as being by the original poster of the questionUff....great answers, all of these...
Well, she actually was molested/abused when she was a child... which makes me understand a little better her behaviour... (Not that I feel relieved because THAT happened...It is terribly sad)
She also had two abortions being a teenager and during her mid 20's...it seems that the boyfriends at that time weren't "Dad" material... I feel quite uneasy about this last discover... I really don't know what to do...
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reader, Miamine +, writes (20 February 2012):
I like the way you put things, (except for the word slut) got no problem with how you are trying to judge things. As a conservative guy it sure sounds like your trying hard not to be judgemental. She sounds like a fun, sexually adventurous girl, and if she knew what she was doing, had fun, felt great and there was no consequences, well I'm smiling at her balls and admiring her.
But nope I couldn't act like her, I would feel bad about myself. And no I couldn't date a guy who did such things because even if it's his past, it would make me worry about his idea of risk. I like safe, boring, sensible partners who think more like me.
No she's not a slut, a word I hate because it's about insulting people and promoting hate. She's just someone who is different from me in the way she has thought about life and the way she see's things.
But that's my opinion, who knows what you may think. If she has other great qualities and your heart is involved, then you might be sad and lonely if you never see her again. That's a judgement that only you can make.
PS: Some women who act like this have been badly abused in the past, and that is a whole different issue and she will have been in pain and suffering in her sexually active past.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (20 February 2012): You've gotta love modern society's sexual rules.
You don't get called sick for doing potentially destructive things that result from psychological traumas. But you do get called sick for not wanting to be with that kind of person.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2012): "Was she ever sexually abused/molested?"Was asked before, and needs to be asked again, and again, and again. I have taken care of people who have denied that they were ever abused or molested for 40 years, till they finally break down and the whole sordid terrible traumatic mess comes out. 40 years of promiscuity, divorces, broken families, drug addiction, alcohol abuse, and treatment with multiple meds to try to control the feelings.This is where this originates, not from being a "strong position towards taking control of her sexuality"Far from it.Where does it come from?Family of origin problems, rape, molestation, abuse, neglect, fear, alcoholic fathers or mothers, severe personality disorders, bipolar disorder, drug addiction, alcoholism, etc, etc, etc.Universal, no exceptions, when you hear this...but denied adamantly by some of the purveyors and advocates...till they themselves come out of the closet and admit their past.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2012): "but I cannot figure out if her past is a reflection of a very strong position towards taking control of her sexuality, or if she was simply a slut."So in other words you just want to know what her motivation was for engaging in all those, um, activities.If her motivation was A or B, you would say it's just her taking control and being liberated and strong.But if her motivation was C or D, then you'd say she was simply a s^^ut.So the question is, what kinds of motivations do you attribute to each classification? What if her motivation was: to have fun? to "get ahead" like climbing the corporate ladder? to impress someone? because she was drunk and didn't know what was going on? because she was curious? to be FWB with someone she trusted and liked? to get back at someone? clearly, some motivations are more acceptable to you than others, so you need to articulate for yourself what it boils down to.You need to sort this out within yourself because this is going to affect the way you relate to her.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2012): Why does the word "judge" get into these things?
It is not judging someone to decide that their sexual values are just not compatible with yours. IMHO when you have lived by the same values that you want in your partner, only a "judgmental" person would say you have no right to hold out for a partner who shares them.
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reader, dougbcoll  +, writes (17 February 2012):
 more than likely you feel this way because the longer your relationship grows in love between each other the more you care for her and cant stand the thoughts of other guys touching her in a sexual way. "how can i get rid of these emotions and judgmental feelings" you have those feelings and emotions because you care for her, there is no easy way of getting rid of them in your mind. but you can extend total forgiveness toward her , and unconditional love to her. if you are able to do that, and practice it toward her, and in your heart it will make the thoughts of what you don't agree with in her past more easily forgiven. she has been open about her past, and does not mind talking about it. you are learning more and more. that would indicate she is not ashamed or regrets her past. if a woman or a ( man )has a sexual past they are ashamed of they will not openly talk about or bring it up. you need to decide if you can handle her history or will it cause you heart ache on down the road years from now. you may need to ask yourself " is she some one you could live with, or is she someone you cant live with out". if you choose to stay with her you need to look at how she treats you, is she truthful to you, would she cheat on you, can you trust her. it is your choice if you want to stay with her or not. it is up to you if you are able to put aside her past. the more she tells you of her past the more it will burn in your thoughts.
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reader, Danielepew  +, writes (17 February 2012):
 In the end, all you can do is leave her or stay with her. Choose one.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2012): Was she ever sexually abused/molested? I ask this as most young women grow into adulthood and go through a phase of 'experimentation' as they see themselves as something is wrong with themselves and they continue to destroy themselves by having such a distorted view of their bodies due to past trauma.In ways they re-inact the sex crime committed to them, to feel they have a sense of control. Its a very dark way of healing from a trauma. Which so few understand.OF course this way of dealing and healing perpetuates the cycle of self hatered and inner self mutilation. So if that is the case; she will need some therapy to help her get healthy, safe ways of coping with the past.So this is why I don't like it when Men and Women use the hate crime label of Slut so readily.I do think that because she 'acts' non chalant about sex, she is in deed trying to grapple with her view of sex and sexuality to the point it is not a big deal so she can downplay and eliminate her past abuse.Its not common that any girl, raised conservatively and not be exposed to a distorted view of sex and sexuality, be so liberal in her sexuality at such a young age.Patterns of behaviour have a basis.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2012): I'm with the anonymous female virgin poster. I am not a man whore, I don't engage in casual sex. I've never had a threesome and I don't want one. I've never had a one night stand only because I choose to pass up those opportunities. I enjoy sex as much as anyone else, it is just that I choose to enjoy it only within the confines of a monogamous relationship.I expect the same standards in a partner, so I don't date sluts. If a woman has a history of threesomes, random hookups, and open relationships then something I'd definitely never call such a woman is my girlfriend. A woman that doesn't share my values isn't a good match. What you have, OP, is retrograde jealousy. You are holding this woman accountable for her history. Initially you may have been OK with it, but as you're growing attached to her it is eating at you. I'm afraid that there's really no way to "get over" this. My experience is that you'll continue to judge her for her sordid past. You know what? If you haven't lived that way yourself, then I think your reaction is perfectly acceptable. You do have the right to dump this girl because of her history.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2012): I am a girl.. and I haven't had sex yet..
usually I would have told you.. what right do you have to judge her.. but you know what.. since you didn't sleep with the same amount of girls and didn't live your life the way she did.. (presuming) I think you have every right to judge her..
Every girl vouches for freedom of expression and sexual liberty. you know what.. f*** that.
You are an individual and you have the right to hate her / love her..
I had a problem with one of my ex because of his sexual history... I dumped him..
You do have that right..
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (17 February 2012):
 Slut is a judgment… if you did these things would you feel right being called a man whore?
She was open and honest with you about these things. The fact that she did it before you means she knows what she wants and has BTDT so it’s not like later on down the road she comes and says “I need to try this because I never have”…
I’ve done 3somes MMF and FFM I’ve dong gang bangs… I’ve been filmed… I’ve done FF and MF more times than I can count. I am not a slut and I would seriously resent and probably not speak to a man who even considered calling me that.
I am a whole healthy woman who is very in touch with my sexuality and my desires and have no regrets… and I’m betting your GF is the same way GOOD for her!
Since she did not break the law there is no right or wrong here. IF you can’t get past the judgments and the concerns then perhaps it would be best for both of you if you split up. I know that sounds harsh but in the long run, if her past is going to be such a big issue for you, it’s better to end it sooner without a fight rather than later with anger and fighting and you screaming SLUT and WHORE at her in your frustration and anger….
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reader, Anonymous 123  +, writes (17 February 2012):
 Shrodingerscat has already spoken about the Madonna-whore complex so I wont get into the details of it. But that's pretty much what its all about. Women are seen either as saints or as prostitutes. Period. There is no middle ground and the question is, why do you have to do the same?
Your G/f had multiple sex partners at the same time, she is a sexually liberated free, HONEST woman, who has not hidden anything from you. Keep in mind that "slut" is a term imposed by society to demean, subjugate and humiliate women. There is no male equivalent to the terms "slut" or "whore". So basically a man can fuck whoever he wants, as many times he wants and there's no derogatory term for him. When a woman does it, she's a slut.
OP its your choice now. Get rid of the "slut" image, she's just a woman who experimented sexually when she wasn't with you (there was no cheating involved), that was in her past (which is none of your business in any case) and that was her choice. If you cant deal with it, then do her a favor and leave her alone, the last thing she wants is for a man to judge her and make her feel like a "slut", when all she was doing was making her own choices.
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reader, Gabrielle Stoker +, writes (17 February 2012):
 "Slut" is a label, and like most labels is quite odious.
The two possibilities here are, as you rightly said, that she is a confident woman in charge of her sexuality OR someone who lacks the ability to make the right choices.
If she is open about her past relationships and sees them as her having had a good time, where she enjoyed herself sexually without feeling degraded or used in any way, its the former and that does seem to be the case.
My boyfriend is not only accepting but enthusiastic about my past and present. It's worked wonderfully well for us for a year or so now, I think I love him more each day and I think the same can be said of him.
If you can't get past it, though, it's best to end it before retroactive jealousy eats up both of you from the inside.
PS: Craigslist is not a good place to look for hook-ups. Hopefully she's learned her lesson about that.
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reader, Mariab +, writes (17 February 2012):
 In my books...3-somes and picking people up off Craigs List etc is just not the sort of thing I would want to hear from my other half. If you are uneasy about this then maybe you need to let her be with the same types of people that enjoy 3-somes and sex with strangers. It may just not be the sort of thing you are comfortable with and if you are not ok with it now...then for sure with time, you will still not be ok with it.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2012): First you need to define what it means to be a slut. then ask yourself if she fits that description. whether she's a slut or not is entirely in the eyes of the beholder, i.e. you. what standards are you using to judge her by, and would you hold men to the same standard or just women? Why do you think such standards are "right" in the first place?
And what are you afraid of, exactly? She hasn't changed in her treatment of you. Instead you have changed in your attitude toward her when she's not done anyuthing differently since you started dating.
when people judge others, it's often a reflection of their own personal insecurities. So what are you afraid of? are you now afraid that you'll feel inadequate because she has more sexual experience than you? that she'll cheat on you, or compare you unfavorably with other men she's slept with? these are valid concerns and are reasons not to get into a relationship with her, but then you should acknowledge your insecurity as being yours and yours alone rather than conveniently blaming her. Labeling her a slut goes beyond concern for your future interests instead it crosses the line into personal attack. And since she's done nothing wrong against you, it is bad character for you to be personally attacking and judging her.
You shouldn't be judgmental on other people who have done nothing wrong to you. If you simply can't be around her without getting all upset anymore, then you should break up with her so she can find a man who's less judgmental and more accepting of her and will respect her for who she is. Given her complete honesty and disclosure, she deserves someone who will not throw it back into her face by personally attacking her. If you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2012): Its always the women who get judged in these situations, men wouldn't be would they?
She has been very open about it all, not sure why, but she clearly wanted you to know and you accepted her as she was.You love her and say she is beautiful inside and out. Maybe your attitude has changed because the relationship is serious, perhaps your thinking 'Is she wife material' as opposed to a girl you date?
I know a woman who slept with literally loads of men after her divorce, had threesomes, drove in the early hours to meet strangers at their homes, had group sex and went to Swingers Clubs. She was great,good job, kids,was very discreet too...but never seemed happy, even out at weekends she would hook-up or be arranging something. Thing is she didn't want to change, loved the thrill of it all,new men and experiences so she couldn't settle for one man and her reputation was getting known locally.
Is it the fact you don't know if your girl can stay loyal, or the fact she has been so free and liberated?
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reader, shrodingerscat +, writes (17 February 2012):
 If you can't deal with her displaying the same sort of reproductive and sexual rights as all men have, then break up with her and find a more prudish "conservative" woman. The thing is with "sluts" is that we tend to have many great qualities like being sexually mature and experienced, I.E. Great In Bed, and her God-given rights to be sexually adventurous (like any man) should not be punished by people like yourself who cannot reconcile that there is no difference between a sexually open woman and a "good woman".
You've got what a lot of psychologists call a "Madonna-Whore" complex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna%E2%80%93whore_complex
It says there that it "is said to develop in the human male when he sees all women not as individuals, but as either saintly Madonnas or debased prostitute-like personalities. This dichotomy limits women's sexual expression because it offers two mutually exclusive ways to construct a sexual identity.[1] The duality implies that women must assume subservient roles, either as madonnas to be protected or as whores to be punished by men."
"Freud argued that the Madonna-whore complex is caused by oedipal castration fears which arise when a man experiences the affection he once felt for his mother with women he now sexually desires. In order to manage this anxiety, the man categorizes women into two groups: women he can admire and women he finds sexually attractive. Whereas the man loves women in the former category, he despises and devalues the latter group.[3] Psychoanalyst Richard Tuch suggests that Freud offered at least one alternative explanation for the Madonna-whore complex:"
"This earlier theory is based not on oedipal-based castration anxiety but on man's primary hatred of women, stimulated by the child’s sense that he had been made to experience intolerable frustration and/or narcissistic injury at the hands of his mother. According to this theory, in adulthood the boy-turned-man seeks to avenge these mistreatments through sadistic attacks on women who are stand-ins for mother.[3]"
"According to Freudian psychology, this complex often develops when the sufferer is raised by a cold and distant mother.[citation needed] Such a man will often court someone with qualities of his mother, hoping to fulfill a need for intimacy unmet in childhood. Often, the wife begins to be seen as mother to the husband—a "Madonna" figure—and thus not a possible object of sexual attraction.[citation needed] For this reason, in the mind of the sufferer, love and sex cannot be mixed. The man is therefore reluctant to have sexual relations with his wife for, according to his unconscious mind, this would be incest. He will reserve sexuality for "bad" or "dirty" women, and will not develop "normal" feelings of love in these sexual relationships. This introduces a dilemma where a man may feel unable to love any woman who can satisfy him sexually and is unable to be sexually satisfied by any woman whom he can love."
It is a false dichotomy, one that you can either grow past and learn from, or accept as a character flaw and end the relationship. YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE. If you stay with her, you will end up resenting her and ruining the relationship and hurting her WORSE than if you ended it now. Make your choice. Either open yourself up that her past was her past and has nothing to do with your future together and that she LEARNED AND GREW from her experiences (becoming a better partner for -you), or leave her and find someone else that has less experience.
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reader, TrancedRhythmEar  +, writes (17 February 2012):
 Hey pal!
Alrite man Im def open minded too and have problems dealing with pasts of other women so what did I do? went and made a past of mine so I dont judge. I dont encourage the same as I dealt with some unique circumstances but with this girl Id focus on the big picture. If she is wanting to continue such behavior, rather promiscuous ill add, then she isnt for you as your views on relationships dont align. If she is done with all that experimentation stuff then give her a fair shot. theres a woman on this board who will remain nameless who has a HUGE sexual past however given her personality that I like, if I was ever to end up being with her Id give her a fair chance at a relationship with me if that was her choosing. Focus on the future with her and if your views go together stay with her, if not, break up. Good luck.
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