A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I went on a first date with a guy I met, we connected and I really liked him, but then he was ok with me paying for my dinner. I offered to pay before he reached for the bill and he said "sure, if you want to." So he told the waiter to split it. He would pay for his dinner, drink and the appetizer and I would pay for mine. I offered because I was trying to be nice, I'm old-fashioned and I feel like the man should pay on the first date, but I would gladly pay for a few things on other dates later on. This really turned me off that he took me up on my offer. What should I tell him? Reply to this Question
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2015): I agree with Cindy, it's not about money. I am sure OP was not in a financial ditch after splitting the check. But the whole feel of a date was gone. She was just a buddy, someone who he had dinner with. There was nothing special in his offer for a date, it was just a dinner between 2 strangers. And everyone paid their share.
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (13 April 2015):
 I agree with the " modern " responders ...and I also disagree at the same time.
Meaning, yes, of course in 2015 a woman can pay her way, no great shakes. And yes, at times I did just like You Wish, I picked up the check for both, and without making a major production of it. But I also get, I think, what the OP is trying to say : he wasn't smooth;he was clumsy.
Most of you ladies call it " games ". To me it's not games , it's more like a " code " . Or dance steps. Dating IS a courting and mating dance . And the smoother ,and lighter on your feet you are, the better you look.
It's like , say, a minuet, - of course one can say
" Bleah, what 's that stupid courtseying and bowing about ? Let's get rid of it, let's just pass straight to grinding ". Yeah, but... then it's all another thing, simpler but with no grace and no elegance . Or, even better dancing example, think that you are dancing a nice Austrian waltz and twirling around for all the length of a huge dance hall from one end to the other. Of course, if your intent is going from one end of the hall to the other , you might as well just walk side by side, rather than twirl around- it would be faster , in fact. But then- you would not be waltzing ; you'd be just walking . Of course walking is fine too , but ,...not if you are in Wien at a New'Year's ball, you know what I mean ?
First date is on the guy, if he did the asking out, I found out this to be pretty transversal, regardless of location, culture and each person's income. It's a way to signal " Potentially, I'd be romantically into you. I am attracted to you, this is a date-date ; I am not just sharing a meal with you to kill time,or because you look like a fun type who'd make a great opponent in a farting game. I am making an effort here, with time AND money ".
And she needs to say something, " let's split the bill " or " let me take care of the wine "... to confirm " I am not an entitled princess who thinks she is doing you a favour to eat with you. I am potentially interested too. I am not a moocher who will dine with everybody as long as it's free ".
On turn then, he's not supposed to say , or act, " Great idea ! Pfeeew, I thought I was going to be out of 80 bucks by the end of the night, instead it will only be 40. Yesssss! ( fist pump ) ". What he could, and should , have said , and with a smile , was " Oh no no, I'll get this. You can buy us coffee if you want " or " Oh no no ; you'll pay next time " or something to this effect.
Complicated ? Superfluos ? Stupid ?... Maybe. But, to me, no more than meeting your neighbour next door and telling him : " Hallo Mr .Smith, it looks like it's gonna rain ". Maybe his sincerest, truest, and most logical answer should be " So what , as if with all the things I have got in my mind I am worried about the rain " . But , he will say : Eh yeah, rainy spring we are having ". It's not about the whether, it's about confirming the kind of mutual terms you are in, reassuring each other of mutual cooperation, or non belligerance at least, and so on.
We live in a universe of signs and symbols, and every social situation is a speech in a language of signs. It's not forbidden if people adopt a different one from yours, or from the most prevalent one which most people knows , it's not BAD per se, - or WRONG. But obviously people feel more comfortable if they can use the language they are accostumed to - and when the other person does not, it may be a bit of a let down, or generate a communication shortcircuit.
I think this is what the OP felt.
Now, how much this bothered her- maybe too much, it's a bit drastic to decide that the guy is a cad or a jerk just because he was not mastering a ( widely known ) language. But that she may have noticed and felt uncomfortable, yes, I get that.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (13 April 2015):
 I think you need to look at WHY you offered to pay if you think a man who doesn't pay on the first date is not dating material.
If he asked to split the check without you offering, that's one thing, but YOU offered and you WANTED him to say NO... but he didn't. So now you are stuck... now what?
Personally, I think you slit your own throat with the offer and you need to now figure out what to do.... I would give him a few more chances since YOU are the one who set him up to fail.
If he asks you out again, say yes... do NOT offer to pay and see what happens...
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (13 April 2015):
 I don't believe that it's because a woman is a victim of gender inequality that she should have a guy pay for dates.
Along that line of thinking, our foremothers would have cited a man's ability to vote, a woman's place in the home as chattel, a woman's bouts of "hysteria" and an inability to exist in a man's world.
I must point out that in 2015, a woman has the ability to make her own way, to start, buy, and own businesses. She can be just as innovative, and her gender doesn't impede on those abilities. A woman can aspire to do what she wants, to learn what she wants, and the sky is the limit in matters of earning. Any time a woman starts measuring her worth based on comparisons to men is limiting and short-sighted, and I think we can be free of that thinking.
Men don't give birth, true, but they can feed babies as long as formula is created (a godsend to widowers out there), and a woman can provide for her child if need be. I have seen families where the woman earns and the man stays home to care for and nurture their child. There are times when that's a necessity (in the recession, families did what they had to), and there are times when natural gifts and talents lend themselves to carving out family roles that aren't congruent with society-assigned gender roles.
My point was the idea of not playing games or misrepresenting themselves. I don't have a problem with people who date and don't follow the "Man pays always" rule. When I was dating (quite a while back), there were a couple of guys I asked out, and I paid! That's not a popular idea, but I figured since I did the asking out, I'd back it with my pocketbook. I only had to pay once...the other couple of times, I was about to pay, and my date insisted on doing it himself, which I let him!
As for grooming money being a reason for a guy to pay, I've seen that go both ways as well. Some women don't go all out with the makeup or beauty products, and some men go crazy and spend an hour on their hair and buy lots of jewelry and the best designer clothes, and they weren't gay!
I think whatever the values, be they old-fashioned or progressive, be true to them, and be no one's victim, and don't waste time comparing to men in anything, income or otherwise. The one commodity that is worth far more than money is time. Men and women have it in equal amounts, and it's never to be wasted, especially on pining for guys or feeling sorry for oneself.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2015): In 2015 women still make 25% less money than men, in 2015 women still spend tons of money to groom themselves for a man when going on a date, while men just has to take a shower and brush his teeth. So there will be never any equality in that regard. Also, men don't give birth, breast feed and stay home with babies. I think instinctively every woman is looking for a good provider for their children. First date is a start, that eventually can lead to a family. As funny as it sounds. Every women needs to have this feeling, doesn't matter how much money she makes, when the time comes and she will have to not work and raise her child, her man will be there to provide and protect. Splitting a bill like this even indicating how much his part is petty. He could have said, just leave a tip or refused to take money from you all together. Wasn't it embarrassing to him in front of the waitress also?In a situations like these man needs to take charge. He didnt know how to react? Well, too bad for him. He should have known. He didnt have to be a mind reader to have a common sense. He could have figure out that you are offering it to be polite. With that said, I agree with others who said, don't play games. To offer to pay even if you want to be just polite is not a good idea. Now you are wondering, if you didnt offer to pay you wouldn't wonder, and you would have a much nicer impression of a guy. I went on dates when guys told me to split a check, though they picked a place. That was mypast date with them. So, I understand how you feel,but next time don't offer any money. And give him one more chance and see how it goes. But this time don't offer to pay
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (12 April 2015):
I'm with Honeypie 1000% on this one. Why the hell would you play games like this?? Not only did he accept YOUR offer, but you put him on the spot when you did it, because for him, it's a trap. How does he know you wouldn't have been turned off by his REJECTING the offer? How would you know that you would have turned him off and/or made him feel emasculated by offering in the first place???
Game playing in dates is crap. If you wanted the date to go traditional, then don't offer in the first place!
The other thing is - you say that you're old-fashioned, yet you felt "nice", so you offered to split the bill? Isn't that you lying and misrepresenting you you are to him? Why would you do that if you're old-fashioned? Don't ever "test" dates in this way. It's dishonest and it's not the way to establish and build intimacy. If dates (especially the first ones) are about "getting to know" a person, then the last thing you should be doing is both acting contrary to who you are AND hiding your true intentions in some sort of sick "test" to see if he'll "step up", because no matter what, anything he'd do at this point would be wrong. You trapped him. Had he refused, you would have felt like he ignored your wishes. Had he been indecisive, you would have found it a turn off that he was unsure of himself. Had he been a rare evolved man who saw past your game/test, you would have thought him arrogant and pompous for calling you out, gently or otherwise.
In the future, don't take your eye off what dating really is about. If you're traditional and old-fashioned, don't offer. Instead, order frugally and concentrate on getting to know him, and then let him pay.
If you'd gladly pay down the line, then all you'd have to do is....that!
I actually feel bad for the guy. That was the Kobayashi Maru of dating scenarios.
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A
male
reader, Xearo  +, writes (12 April 2015):
You might be old fashioned but he is not old fashioned. That is not wrong on his part and it is not wrong on your part either. But it does not deserve the reaction you are giving it.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2015): I am not agreeing with everyone else here. For me this is a deal breaker. Even though you offered he shouldn't take it but because you still don't know if he really wasn't sure how to react give it another chance you will find out soon! Yes it is 2015 but I don't know whay some people don't get the point. The point is not about money at all it's about the feeling. I like to have a man and if you call it old fashion that's the way it should be. I would make up always in another ways. I rather buy him an IPhone as a gift to split $20 bill!!
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A
female
reader, mystiquek + ♥, writes (12 April 2015):
 I'm sorry OP but I can't back you up on this one. If you didn't want to pay and it was going to upset you then you shouldn't have offered..plain and simple. I wouldn't automatically assume that the man was a cheapskate! Perhaps he was not quite sure how to handle things and thought that he might offend you or insult you since you had offered? Look at from his point of view. You two don't know each other yet and as another aunt said..he can't read your mind! Sorry to sound harsh but I agree..don't play games. If you don't want to do something, then don't.
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A
female
reader, Questing for Love +, writes (12 April 2015):
 I'm sorry but I agree with HoneyPie. You can't say one thing and then expect him to know you didn't really mean it. He is not a mind reader and it isn't fair to place him at fault for not playing into your reverse psychology. And I also agree that he was probably doing it out of respect for you as an equal because many fights are started upon "who's going to pay the bill?"
In my opinion it is definitely not worth getting angry about. You offered and he took you up on that offer the way any normal person would. You say you would have willingly paid in the future, why not simply pay this one and wait for him to offer in the future?
Don't make a big deal out of nothing. Like the others said, this IS 2015...
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A
male
reader, Garbo +, writes (12 April 2015):
 You should tell him to explain how frugal is he with his money? Ask him if he saves? Is he a good money manager?
These are all qualities of a good man and a good husband, who cares for his nest and not to show off.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (11 April 2015):
 You YOU gave HIM an empty offer and then gets PISSED when he didn't READ your mind and told you no, I got this?
It's 2015. You can definitely PAY your own way.
My advice? IF you don't WANT to pay, then DO not offer.
He probably felt like NOT talking you up on your offer would offend the feminist in you. He was TRYING to show you that he can SEE you as an equal.
I can't really see what this guy did wrong.
Don't play games.
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A
female
reader, jls022  +, writes (11 April 2015):
Being honest, I have no idea why women still expect men to pay in this day and age. Presumably you also work, so why shouldn't you pick up your share of the bill? I know lots of people disagree with my opinion on this, but I think it's an unfair and outdated double standard.
However, if you (like many others) feel this is a dealbreaker, then just say you don't think it's going to work out between you. I think telling him you were annoyed after offering to pay might make you look like a bit of a game player so I wouldn't mention that at all.
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