A
female
age
51-59,
*anya2018
writes:Ok, so this is a bit complicated. We are two cross cultural couples- my husband and I are Asian while the other couple is European. We used to live in the same country but we returned to our own after a couple of years. During our time there, we became friends with this couple because they were my husband's work colleagues and we have had some family dinners together. Eventually, we meet them by turns whenever work takes us back to that city. We are always invited by this couple- let us call them Ron and Maria- and shown a lot of hospitality and warmth. It's all very wholesome and family fun kind of thing. Except that Ron , I feel, has always had a bit of a crush on me. I know this now, that I think of recent events- he's always been over enthusiastic when he sees me, laughing a lot in my presence and obviously delighted to see me.There was one dinner, just before we left, when all four of us were at the table but he kept touching my hand lightly everytime he spoke until it became just a bit too obvious to our spouses. He's a handsome Italian man, so I can't say I wasn't flattered. :) Anyway, other than these twice a year meetings I don't have any contact with Ron or Maria in any other way-no email or What's App, Sometime last year however, unexpectedly, Ron became my husband's boss. That didn't change anything in his behaviour towards me or my husband however- we were still friends like before. In the past year, I have been to that city more often- thrice in fact, alone without my husband as I have gone on my own work. And each time I have had dinner with them, we all laugh and talk and Ron drops em back at night. That's the drill. When I met them last summer, I found myself wishing he'd come alone to pick me up without his wife. I take extra care about how I look for these meetings with them. The next time was before Christmas. It was a bit of a surprise and Ron changed his schedule to accommodate a weeknight pizza dinner. He was visibly delighted to see me. Even his wife commented in good humour about how he never comes home before 8.30 p.m. but was here an hour earlier that day! Then my third trip was last month. This time, we had a Sunday lunch. Ron came to pick me up. (They have to do this each time because they stay away from the city.) When I stepped out of the door of my building and looked at the street, I saw him standing outside his car, looking awfully handsome with the sun on his face and smiling at me. I thought it was the kind of smile you give someone you are really fond of and happy to lay your eyes on. On my part I was delighted too that he had come and he was alone. We spoke about normal things, kids, our respective lives of the past few months etc. Lunch was fine, we all took a walk, he clicked some pics of me and Maria in the picturesque village they live in. And then it was time to go. He brought along his young teen daughter, who sat behind while I sat in front.(I wasn't quite sure why he asked her to come along, considering they were not going anywhere else.) Anyway, we exchanged photos on our respective phones on What's App. He sent me the ones he clicked of his wife and me and wrote "Beauties of the world" and put the emoticon of a winking face blowing a kiss. I responded saying something about "handsome Italian men" and then felt it might be too much and quickly added something about my handsome husband not being there..what a pity it was. He responded correctly by saying "Oh I'm sure we'll all get together soon." Later that night, I'm not sure why, I asked him his sun sign. Next morning he told me what it was (Leo). Then all day I was at work, so was he. But in the evening I responded saying "Ah no wonder we get along easily. Many of my friends are Leo."Somehow that opened up an entire conversation that lasted three hours, past midnight. It began with him asking me my sun sign, then quoting from some web site on sun sign personalities, to something about foreign languages and how he got to learn three of them and then to his childhood and how difficult it was to study because his parents were not very rich and from a small town, to how good he was at University, with many "meant- to- impress"- sort of instances about his past thrown in. And fairly deeply personal stories about how his parents struggled, how he lost faith in God and found it back...etc. etc. There was nothing inappropriate. It was all very kosher. I quickly found that he was really keen on telling me his story, not so keen to listen to mine. I felt he was showcasing his achievements and I said all the right things and made appropriate comments about how wonderful it all was. I had to leave for home the next morning. So when we wound up, he asked me how I was going to reach the airport. I told him my precarious plan of catching public transport and then some other shared vehicle. He looked up Google Map and told me exactly where to go etc. He ended with "Good night dear___" (add my name). I kept thinking about this new development in our friendship that night. the question I grappled with was why he chose to share all this stuff with me. The next morning an hour before I was to leave, he texted me saying he would come and drop me to a certain point so that I didn't have to drag my suitcases by public transport. Somehow I knew that text would come. I said no for politeness but when he asked again, I agreed, because it would doubtless be of help. He had messaged me bright and early and I found that he had brought his young son along. He said he had to buy shoes for him so he was anyway planning to come to town. Later when I thought about it I realized, if that had been a plan, how come he did not mention it the previous night? The only explanation that fitted was that he got up in the morning and decided to drop me. But coming into town just for that would be hard to explain to his wife. So he retrofitted this bit about buying shoes to give it an air of respectability. He waited till my transport arrived, helped me arrange my luggage and when it was time for the final goodbye, instead of the customary cheek touching, I gave him a quick hug on either side, in a bid to show more warmth rather than fulfill a formality. As I did that, he rubbed the top of my back, in an affectionate way. It was all over in 4 seconds but I remember he did that. And then I messaged him before boarding and he replied saying he had been worried (because there was some issue with the driver) and was relieved that I reached properly. When i came back home, I half told my husband about the meeting..avoiding the duration, time and details of the Whats App conversation but showing photos etc and telling him everything else. I spent two days in some sort of hangover. staring at his social media photos and desperately reading up about Leo men and reliving the whole meeting and rereading the texts....I even exchanged a joke on Italians with him, ten days later. He was polite and friendly and said "Bye" after a couple of messages and I did the same. I'm extra careful because he's my husband's boss, all said and done! But what I want to know is, how should I read these developments? Am I reading too much into it? Was he just being friendly or is he sort of wanting a deeper friendship with me, realizing that we seem to connect easily? Is he just crushing on me and not able to hold back his affections? I must add that he is a responsible family man, Catholic and loyal to his wife. I am a responsible family woman too, never cheated on my husband though I have had crushes post marriage. But neither of us is the kind who will rock the family boat. So what do you think?
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (28 May 2018):
 Maybe Code Warrior DOES have a point with showing your husband. If you feel you can't talk to him, showing him the question to start a conversation might be a start, it might not.
Sure, we can all pat you on the head and tell you "it's OK" and so forth, but you wouldn't have written in if everything was OK.
And people WILL judge you for your words and actions when you lay them out to people. Isn't that why you came here? To have other people's point of view? Or did you just want confirmation that you should continue to play your little games? That it's somehow harmless?
The thing with advice here on DC is such, you will get a whole RANGE of answers. Some can perhaps help you, others might not, some might offend YOU but also point something out that you otherwise have ignored. And some might be "useless". What YOU have to do is read the answers and find what can perhaps help you.
Everyone who answers here on DC have their own personal experiences and answers according to that, to their values, morals and ethics, which means... you might not LIKE any or all answers.
What I DO want to suggest is that you CONSIDER transferring all that "chasing after romance" to your husband. Not other women's husbands, not other men. I am guessing you are looking to get that "honeymoon high" from the beginning of your relationship/marriage with your husband. But the things is... relationships and marriages mature, change over time. For most people the "romantic" side becomes not really LESS important but on the backburner, so to say, while couples start building their lives and future together.
If you are MISSING romance in your day to day and that is why you "play games" (yeah, I get it you don't like being told that you are doing that but... sorry, OP that is how your post reads - as you can see by SEVERAL people's answers they see the same - so maybe there something to that?) but IF you are missing romance, then you NEED to communicate with your husband. HE is the one you are committed to, made vows to and who SHOULD be the one providing you with this, NOT other men. Certainly NOT other MARRIED men. Why do I say that? Because YOUR actions and games can have CONSEQUENCES in their marriages. You might only want to bet the buzz from a man wanting you... but you can't control how HE would feel with these kind of games. And let's not forget HOW would you feel if your husband was doing what YOU are doing? Would you think it was OK?
You do need to look at yourself a bit deeper. Look at your own actions.
Maybe that is why you lash out at Code Warrior? Because he held up a mirror and you saw something you didn't like?
Now none of us here at DC knows you. So ALL we can go by is personal experience, reading between the lines and trying to give you OUR viewpoint. Not to placate you or pat you on your head. That would be "useless" advice. But that also means you will hear things you might not have considered or things you don't WANT to hear or don't AGREE with.
Think about it. Or not. That is YOUR choice.
A
female
reader, Tanya2018 +, writes (28 May 2018):
Tanya2018 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCode warrior : Why would I show my husband? It s because we are not able to is why we are on this forum. See any thread.. It is people in a situation that they don t know what to do about and they can t speak to anyone about, least of all their partners! Why would they need DC then? Also everyone posting questions knows that their behavior is "appalling" and "bad". Those are judgements. Far worse than what I ve done is happening on other threads.Idea is to help them understand what to do and why this is happening. Just saying "you re an awful person" helps no one. It s not an agony aunt's job to do that.
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female
reader, Tanya2018 +, writes (27 May 2018):
Tanya2018 is verified as being by the original poster of the question think Code Warrior should learn from WiseOwl how to be articulate. So one is baring their soul on DC and writing deeply honest personal things. And in réponse there s always harsh judgment or swearing. If you feel like saying "Jesus Fucking Christ" say it to yourself. But what you write here should be more helpful and useful. And this does not say anything except that you disaaprove. Not good enuff. I could say my story to any random acquaintance or friend and get a similar reaction. But an agony aunt is supposed to make you understand why. And what you can do about it.
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female
reader, Tanya2018 +, writes (26 May 2018):
Tanya2018 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWise Owl! Thanks. Big time respect. This is the most clear and persuasive argument for fidelity I have seen! The thing about putting up your shield is making sense to me. Too often we lower them (well, I do) not because you are seeking sex. But only to experience a temporary thrill. To experience what it is like to feel attractive to the opposite sex again. For romance, (which in a 20 year old marriage with kids can really take a backseat.) To feel young one last time, before sagging body parts and thickening waistlines settle down forever. Just that pre marriage- date high feeling. Where you re excited to see someone. You dress up a little. Your eyes shine. You smile and laugh charmingly. It's hard to feel all that with your spouse of 20 years!
I love that feeling. That's the reason my shields are not up. Reading that post I understand it is self indulgent, though. But I never can see myself actually sleeping with someone other than my husband. My big kick is to push it to the point where I ve created a flutter in the other man's heart, revel in all the feelings I have written above and then stop there.
An old colleague became a very close friend, basically through texting. Over many years off and on. It was tinged with romance and delicious ambiguity. (But never about our spouses or anything controversial.). About a decade later he wanted more-an affair. It was discomfiting, though I should have seen it coming. It came very close once, when he said he realized he had fallen in love with me over time and wanted to now express it.It was hard, but I said no. Not because I did not want to. But because it wouldn't have been right on our respective spouses. For many months we were silent. And now we are still friends though the equation has changed and there's no trace of "romance". Just asexual normal friendship.
But when it rains and the grass turns green and the music is right I do think of not him, but that time when I was attracted to him. The time when I felt beautiful.
So, I seem to be serially addicted to romance for its own sake. Not to take it to the next level.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2018): Marriage is an institution which closes-off a couple from promiscuity, outside romantic-pursuits, and any expression of sexual-intimacy with people outside their marital-commitment. To seal the deal, you take vows to honor and be faithful to each other. These aren't empty-words or rhetorical-suggestions at an over-priced ceremony; where the money could have been better invested, I can add.
This isn't a slam or attack on you personally. It's a wake-up call for all of us. You're an American, and you can see that our nation is going to hell in a hand-basket sideways!
Look at the examples set by our own leadership! It's utterly atrocious!
You promised you would remain faithful; even after disagreement, sickness, the unfair challenges of life, and the changes brought on by time itself. You promised to face it all TOGETHER! All this 21st-century disrespect for love and commitment, is off the charts; and dragging us into the pits. Read DC, and it will break your heart viewing all the stories of those betrayed; or lonely people who want to be loved. Some who are full-grown adults whom have never experienced what it's like to be in-love with another person. All these cool people giving advice and comfort know what we're talking about! Been there and done that!
Then the stories of people blessed with love; who mess around, cheat, and toy with it. Breaking hearts of people who love and trust them. Worst of all, making lame excuses and defying any judgement about it. Seriously?!!
Now let me get into this thing called fidelity. It doesn't mean you are inhuman and suddenly get the Vulcan powers of indifference, frozen-emotion, and stoicism. That's unrealistic, and anyone who expects that from their partner is crazy...even stupid! If you have eyesight, you can see anything visible. Marriage doesn't make other people invisible. You have eyelids and the muscles that turn the eyes in other directions. I think God had a purpose for that.
You have feelings, you are human, you don't go deaf or blind because you're committed; and you remain attracted to other human beings. So you promised your lover and partner that you will exercise self-control and restraint in protection of your commitment. We validate our romantic-commitment by fighting temptation; because you value what you already have! Sometimes it may happen more than once, as it did for me. Sometimes it might happen but once in a lifetime.
You must earn and maintain trust within your relationship by practicing every possible action that will protect, preserve, and sustain your loving-commitment; and to keep trust as the fuel that keeps it going and intact. I know it's possible; because I've done it before, and I do it now!
I get hit-on all the time. It's a constant challenge! Somebody trusts, loves, and depends on me; and I'm not letting them down!
Marriage is about demonstrating a loyalty and commitment above anything you can offer another soul unrelated by blood. So when temptation comes a-calling; you put up your shields like you do when you don't want to hear what your spouse has to say in an argument. If you can put up defenses against the people who love you when you're angry, or disappointed in them; then you can use the same principles and tactics when outsiders try to infiltrate your union.
Funny how stubbornness is used so selectively. Until it has a good use; meaning when it is needed as a tool of enforcement for something good. There's an endless supply of it for anything not good!
I don't dismiss sloppy or naughty behavior in committed or married-people; because people are getting far too nonchalant and lackadaisical about honoring commitment. Too flippant about trust, fidelity, and proving what it means to love somebody. Oh, but when the shoe is on the other foot!!!
We sometimes feel taken for granted, miss being single, crave attention, and we sometimes have roving-eyes. Love means having the ability to catch yourself before these slips and mistakes manifest into behavior that will betray the trust of your spouse or partner. No matter how small.
I said "stop it," in my last post. I've been tempted dozens of times before. I've also been blessed with love that I never could image would happen to me; and sometimes wonder how I could possibly deserve it? I don't have a lot of horror-stories or tales of woe about love; because I've been blessed. If there is anything my parents and grandparents have ever set the best example of; that is being faithful and demonstrating my love in return for what I receive from another person. Someone who took a risk and gave-up a chunk of their life, just to offer it to me. Willingly!
Value what you have. You won't realize it until it's gone!
That's all I'm saying, my dear! Someone I dearly cherished died of cancer; now I've found myself another. This was written to help you; and anybody else who took the time to read it.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2018): Actually you have answered your post in the last paragraph of your post 'he is a responsible family man, Catholic and loyal to his wife.' However as all married men are, he is a little bored with the repetativeness and familiarity of the married life and deep down would like to catch that feeling of excitement of the chase again and the rush of heart beats and anticipation for being with a different lover and yes he does feel that with you but he will never jeopardise the lives of his family for you. As for accompanying his kids whenever there is a chance of being alone with you, that is because he is afraid of his wife or afraid of what the neighbors and friends say if they see together. Please see him only as a friend and the boss of your husband and cool off.
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reader, Tanya2018 +, writes (25 May 2018):
Tanya2018 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks everyone who has responded. You have given much needed direction and clarity and sort of brought me back to earth from the little cloud I was floating in. I have been sobered by your replies and see things for what they are instead of what I want them to be. Just to clarify: I have a great husband and growing children so I am not looking for other men or to have an affair with anyone!All of us have thoughts. We see attractive people, we many fantasise about them for a while. We may have a crush on them, like I do on Ron (yes, I admit it, I see your point!). However, my thoughts are my own-between my heart and mind. So even if I do have a crush on Ron it's in my head. One of the answers ticks me off for finding him handsome and daydreaming about him. But how do we know what Ron is thinking? How do we know he did not find me pretty in the evening light? So point is -having thoughts can't be something you damn me on!:)Now, ACTING on those thoughts is something else altogether. That is behaviour. And as far as behaviour goes , there are only two things I admit I slipped on:1. Asking his sun sign on What's App and saying i get along well with Leo2. Sending him a joke 10 days after I returnedNow, we don't know Ron's thoughts of course. But in terms of ACTION, here's WHAT ALL he has done, which you can see if you read my original letter with less judgement:1. Sending an emoticon of a winking face blowing a kiss with photos of him and his wife and captioning it"beautiful women"2. Extending the What's App conversation for three hours (I swear I was bored in parts!) and telling me PERSONAL stuff-one after the other. His STRUGGLES, his ACHIEVEMENTS, his grappling with GOD's existence, his DISAPPOINTMENTS...It was completely one sided. He went on and on. And when someone you know is opening up his life to you and sharing stories about his childhood etc. it would be impolite to break off. So I kept saying the right things- "Oh, really?" "Wonderful!" etc. etc. I didn't tell him anything about my life, my struggles, my personal ups and downs..(he wasn't even asking of course, only talking.).Maybe I am mistaken but it looked show -offy..like look at me, I ve done all this stuff". The question I was left with was "Why did he tell me all this?"Second is I did not ask him to come in teh morning. He texted me that he would. I even politely declined but he said again that it was no trouble and he could.Then, about him bringing along his kids as "protection from me" each time. Er..I am not exactly releasing pheromones and touching him every chance I get or pouting or making eyes at him :) I am in my late 40s (all of us in this episode are) and though I may sound like a giddy headed teen, I behave properly. :) I have never found excuses to touch him except for hello and goodbye. I most certainly haven't given the vibe that I am going to pounce on him the minute we are alone!! So is it possible that he brought along his daughter the first time just to appear kosher at home? And even more so when he brought his son the morning after the What's App conversation? Repeat: I never called him. HE volunteered to drop me. So imagine how he would explain this to Maria, his wife. He can't get up in the morning and declare "I am leaving to drop Tanya." His wife will be like "Really? but you never planned this.." So, the only way to do it respectably is to say "I am taking son to buy shoes. I 'll also help Tanya get to the station since she has no proper way to go." Doesn't that make sense?Presence of a third person will also ensure there's no awkwardness after half the night of telling me his childhood stories, isn't it? Neither of us can even mention it.I do get your point that he's being decent and to ensure that things stay that way, he brought his kids. But it is not because I am a vixen flirting with him and he has realized I am attracted to him!! If it was so obvious, his wife would not have me over for dinner each time. So, could there be a teeny possibility that he brought his kids to quieten his own conscience?I felt a little pushed against the wall after I read your answers-as if I m the ONLY person to blame.Because it 's very easy to see the woman as the EVIL ONE, but sometimes one needs to see beyond that, if one is an agony aunt. Net net: I totally get what you guys are saying : That getting close to this man is disastrous for everyone concerned, no matter who is crushing on whom. It would indeed be like "playing with fire" It is best to avoid alone time and put a lid on it. If it is a crush, ensure it remains no more than that. I get all this. Thanks so much for making it clear
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2018): Stop it! Even if it is a crush, let it remain so.
Go attend to your own marriage. If you need more attention, YOUR husband should be the first to know!
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (24 May 2018):
I think you are both playing with fire.
If he is having a crush on you, then it's because you have encouraged it. And perhaps because you also are having a small crush on him as well, whether you want to admit it or not.
Think about it, would you be OK with your husband acting this way towards HIS wife?
If I were you I'd avoid too much "alone time" with him. If you are thinking there is something akin to "romantic" feelings you need to NOT be available for it.
He brought his teenage daughter to AVOID being alone with you. So consider that HE might see you as being somewhat interest in him and HE doesn't want to go down that path.
Italians are KNOWN for being tactile. They touch and gesture a lot. So again, I think you are reading MORE into his gestures because you are HOPING to see reciprocity.
Before you get too caught up in what HE might feel, consider your own actions first. Are you really being appropriate?
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A
female
reader, aunt honesty  +, writes (24 May 2018):
 What do I think? Well from reading your post I think he is being friendly and caring and thinks highly of both you and your husband. However I think that you want something more to happen with him and that you are going down a dangerous path. I am sure he can tell that you are flirting with him, and maybe you feel he is flirting with you but it could just be his Italian charm. From what you have wrote it sounds like you are doing the chasing with him and he is setting up boundaries. I think you are reading way to much into what he is thinking about. If he wanted to see you alone he had so many opportunities but he didn't he involved his family because I think he sees you as a friend and nothing more. You need to be careful not to get carried away here as he is your husbands boss and a family friend. It could all blow up in your face. My advice is to spend quality time with your husband and try and remember why you married him.
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