A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:I don't know what to do anymore, I'm stuck . I've been putting up with liking girls for years and years and years and etc... I really hope that I'm not just being ignored? First it was a girl I liked for 8 years, saved my virginity, didn't date anyone, didn't want to. Now the same for a girl after 14 years... I'm getting so fed up, feeling like I'm just around enough stuck in whatever the friendship zone is enough for girls to hate me. I didn't expect a repeat from high school, I'm starting to feel like I'll never kiss, hold hands, know what it's like do nice things for a girl, what it's like to protect them from jerks, get them things for the holidays. Instead I get beer poured onto me just for asking girls out, then having to explain why I smell like liquor to the police, and frankly they don't know how to think. So I could care less now, it's no matter what, girls just hate the fact of trying to approach them. I don't know if it's my issue, or the girls perception of a jaded point of view. I don't know, I'm starting to get the impression that the girls I've met, in general I don't want anything to do girls if I'm just invisible to them. I get the impression they would rather rant about "hot guys" then torts her haves conscious, if they were guys I would say they were talking with the other head. So idk if love, lust, romance exists other in movies, books, etc... Reply to this Question
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (24 May 2014):
 Yeah, OP, but will it work ?... Probably not. It's not a matter of doing it MORE, it's a matter of doing it right.
It's like you are toothless and you are saying " Oh I always had so little to eat, now I am going to really focus on food , I am going to have 6 meals a day and double portions of everything ". Yeah, but.. you still are toothless, you still will have trouble chewing,it's not doubling the food you'll get better results. First, you'd have to get yourself a set of dentures.
A
male
reader, Mark1978  +, writes (24 May 2014):
 Hi OP
We are giving you relationship/love/dating advice but before you can dive into the world of love and relationships you need to sort out the problems you have with approaching women and reading their signals. Im sorry but we cannot give you any special tip, trick or secret to doing that. The only way for that to happen is for you to aske a medical professional for advise. We are suggesting a sensible course of action in order to help you.
"Everyone's happy as long as I'm not in love, it isn't anything new to me."
OP its not that nobody wants you not be in love, far from it. Its a case of you not being ready for love until you have got on top of the problems you have in dealing with people.
As for seeing a "shrink", many, many of us who use this site have used, or continue to use, health professionals for our well being and to help us through difficult times. I fully appreciate that having someone, especially someone you dont know, ask you to go and be checked for Aspergers/Autism, etc is not a nice experience, but im afraid its the only sensible solution.
Surely its better to have a test for those conditions and, if neccissary, have the relevant treatment so you CAN read peoples signals, enjoy your life more and find the love that you want?
Mark
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female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (24 May 2014):
Op, our dating /relationship advice works ( at least, at times we are told it works... ) when the person who receives it has the cognitive / social / emotional tools to apply it. In other words, when they already have reached a minimal level of functional social/ interpersonal communication. If unluckily, and for no fault of theirs obviously, they haven't , FIRST they have to develop these tools, rearrange their thought patterns, master basic coping skills, etc. etc, and they can do that only with the help of a specialized professional. Yes a shrink. If you need it, you need it - there's nothing to be angry or disappointed or cranky about. If you have a bad toothache, you see a dentist, not a podologist.
The approach to Asperger's or other conditions on the Autism spectrum is only in part based on medications, and anyway it's for the specialist to assess what medications would interfere or not with what you are already taking, and they are qualified for doing just that. The other part is based on non pharmaceutical tools,
like cognitive - behavioural therapy, courses to teach you social skills and strategies in different situations, and other stuff, there are even apps to teach you the meaning of different facial expressions which you may be not too good at decoding yet. There's plenty of stuff to do , but you probably will need to do it BEFORE any of us can tell you anything about relationships that you could apply in your life , or that would make sense to you.
I suggest you to get proactive about it, to not just wallow in self - pity and .. let it ride. Why ? Not only because so you can markedly improve your current situation and your level of personal satisfaction, but also because it is dangerous for you if you keep going about things the way you are.
The accident with the flaky girl and her new boyfriend ?... OP, you have been lucky, if all your approach got you so far is dirty looks and some beer thrown at you. Acting all pissy and confrontational, and going busting a girl's chops when she is with a date, it would eventually get you a big wallop in your teeth even in peaceloving , easygoing Italy (where people posture and scream but very rarely come to blows ). Imagine in Usa where physical confrontations are a bit more usual.
Look, it's simple,- there's something you need to fix, go fix it, if it's a shrink or a barber or a gas pump attendant, what do you care ? As long as they can help you, and make your life easier , it's all good.
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionUnjust going to do what I can, I'll see him, then I'll join dating websites then I'll do 20 dates in 20 minutes. I don't have any plans whatsoever at being still single by the time im30. I'll just focus more on it now since I was denied already so much.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (24 May 2014):
 And based on your question and the followups? It is your issue. Not the girls. Sorry.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (24 May 2014):
You want a different outcome? Then you'll have to change something. Liking the same girl for 8 years then another girl for 14 years got you nowhere in the 'in love' situation.
We have no stake in your relationship with your mental health provider. If you continue seeing him it will not change our lives. If you don't tell him you think you may be an Aspie it will not change our lives.
If you want a change in your circumstances you will have to change something. My vote would be to see if you are an Aspie. Our amateur and unqualified analysis suggests you may be.
If you are and you get the support to help you develop satisfying relationships, well, that's a good thing, no? If you are not, well, you have lost nothing but time.
That's my dating/relationship advice specific to your situation.
Good luck.
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionNever mind, guessing came in for dating/relationship advice. Now I'm being advised to talk to a shrink more... Everyone's happy as long as I'm not in love, it isn't anything new to me.
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A
male
reader, Mark1978 +, writes (23 May 2014):
By a rubber ruler do you mean that the you feel goal posts keep moving?
If other people, other than those on this site, have also suggested you have Aspergers then yes you really need to bring it up with your doctor or psychiatrist. It may be that the medication you are on doesn't suit you or that you have been misdiagnosed in the past. OP the human mind is extremely complex and getting to the bottom of any issue or diagnosing any condition can take time. It also needs the effort to be two way.
I suggest you read up on the links Tisha has given you and then let us know what you think having read them.
Mark
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (23 May 2014):
I'm sorry, I didn't understand the last part of your answer.
So the term has come up before regarding you?
Talk to your psychiatrist about it, on your very next visit.
Did you happen to read any of the links I provided? Not seeing that you did.
What are you talking about in the last part of your answer? Were you threatening self-harm? Because if you were, there are some very specific regulations that medical people have to follow. Don't blame them.
A lot of info here too: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/asperger/detail_asperger.htm#259173080
We've gone from you being in the friendzone with girls to something about 'rubber rulers'--I'm not really sure what you are here for just now?
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI've been suspected of having Aspies, just found out about it when a friends mom (social worker) brought it up to one of my old friends. They both agreed, but lacked to tell mom or me for years years later because of how protective mom is of me. I'll bring it up to the Pyschiatrist, but it may take some convincing for him since it might throw off the whole medication now, meaning idk how it's going to interact. The last thing he asked me two months ago was what was upsetting me and I shared my concerns. But he's just an MD, I hope he's in tune enough to get into detail about non-drug items. It's just more and more screwed up now with medicine crap. Before your barber,dentist, surgeon were the same person. It's sad how if your not a "specialist" giving advice then OH shit your in trouble! But if person x says "screw life I'm done!" Then they will lock you inside a padded room and then person x wishes they were dead? It just seems like a rubber ruler to me
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A
male
reader, Mark1978 +, writes (23 May 2014):
Hello,
Op having read your original post, and your follow ups, I would respectfully recommend for your own well being that you get your self tested for Aspergers or a similar condition.
Many people suffer from this common condition and with the correct treatment and support you could be in a much better situation than you are right now.
Nobody wants to be told that they may have a problem or condition, that I appreciate, but we are trying to help you and offer constructive, fair advice to help you. You clearly lack social skills, misunderstand peoples signals and take things others have said too literally and these are classic symptoms of, for example, Aspergers or Autism.
I have worked with people who have both Autism and Aspergers and, with the right support, these intelligent, proud people were able to demonstrate how good they could be at work, social situations and so on.
To get yourself into a happier situation you really need to be tested and, if an issue is found, given the support and guidance that you are entitled to.
Your methods so far have not only been unsuccessful but have left others angry, hurt and evasive. You need to accept that, for the most part, your actions are causing these issues. The way you have been approaching women and perceiving others has been wrong. Its got you in trouble and left you disappointed and hurt. The reason women are not wanting a relationship with you is not because you are a virgin and never had a girlfriend, its because of the way you express yourself and the way you misunderstand peoples signals.
Its up to you now to take the bull by the horns and speak to your Doctor and explain that you may need to be tested for Autism or Aspergers Syndrome.
I say again, this is not us getting at you, or as you put it judging you just because of "some definition in some psychologists manual". Its about us offering sound, honest advice and you making the right changes to your life.
Mark
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (23 May 2014):
Just found this really interesting read: http://www.aspecialgrace.com/resources/Dude-im-an-aspie-book.pdf
This one seems to have some good info:
http://www.lifeonthespectrum.net/blog/?page_id=1001
If you start googling, there is a lot of information out there to support Aspies: http://www.aane.org/about_asperger_syndrome/asperger_syndrome_diagnosis_adults.html
Do you find any personal resonance with the Aspie characteristics as described by these and other websites?
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (23 May 2014):
Hi, I'm a little late to the conversation but I want to bring it back to something Honeypie asked you and you basically didn't answer. Have you been identified as having Asperger's? We ask, not to label or categorize you, but so we can point you in the direction of getting really good help.
Your posts suggest that you might need some help in basic soclal skills. You ask how to read body language or if a girl might be interested in you, as if this were a simple task. It's not. Human interaction is layer upon layer of verbal communication, non-verbal communication and personal expectations, background, culture, context and stage of life.
As one example, if a girl strokes her hair when she's talking to you, it may mean she has something else on her mind, or it may mean she's flirting or it may mean, as in the case of a friend of mine, that she has a tic that causes her to twirl and pull on her hair. In the latter case, obviously, she is expressing nothing more than the tic.
You need that magic decoder ring? The one that miraculously tells you what people are thinking? There is no such thing. Some people are naturally intuitive and empathetic, others learn as they go through life, and some, perhaps like you, have something keeping them from entering into the fullness of social interaction in a personally fulfilling way.
If I were desperately unhappy at my social situation, at your age, I would take the logical step of finding out if I indeed was on the Autism spectrum, with Aspergers. Why would I do that? Because if my goal was to have a mutually satisfactory romantic and sexual relationship with someone else, I would use all means at my disposal to figure out why I was not in the 'norm.'
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Asperger_syndrome_and_adults
There are lots of resources for people with Aspergers and you might find that you will recognize some of your characteristics and traits as you read more about it.
The point of this post is that there is help, but only if you take the time and put in the effort to find out.
Otherwise, you will wind up back here in another year or two or three, spinning your wheels, wondering why you can't seem to connect to someone in a romantic/sexual sort of way....
What you've been doing hasn't been working. Time to change up the approach.
Go see if you are an Aspie and then, if you are, take the steps to help you deal with the world in a fulfilling and satisfactory way.
And I just want to point out that Autism and the syndromes on the spectrum are very much in the public eye right now. I would hesitate to call them 'hip' but it's almost boring to be a neural normal, if that makes any sense to anyone.... ;)
Go forth. Be brave. Get tested. Then reassess.
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDo I just ignore the mainstream and the opinions that would say "if a girl meets a guy with no career, no dating experience, etc.. Too old, etc...?" Because not everyone had a chance at a 4 year school and when I'm honest talking about it to a girl(s) it's like the biggest upset to them? And I have NEVER have been able to read girls reactions or anything how do I legitimately tell from body language a girl likes me, what are some key giveaways? Like when she strokes her hair gently looking away, or what lol only advice I would get "don't flirt with girls with wedding rings, girls who aren't are ok so talk to them! Who cares if she has a bf!!" And of course I've ignored this advice since it was coming from the mouth of a man on his death bed who stopped caring about the things he said to people 4-5 years before he died, him and my uncle kinda convinced themselves that because I've always been single then = I guess I'm a "effing faggot" or so I've heard, and I'm just scared since I haven't seen the rest of my family for awhile so idk if they think that of me too? I just wish that girls weren't so eagerly deadest on settling down, that's all I seem to hear, and honestly I can never date a pregnant girl, girl with a newborn baby, or an older child BECAUSE I understand some people would, but I would rather get to know the girl, get to experience all those parts of life with her, not meeting her halfway when she'll prob be embittered by the last guy, and after the years I would be sad if the child grows up hating my guts because I'm not the real dad. My friends gf explained that it's happening more and more and kids will be used to it? I thought that was stupid! Kids may be used to it now, but they are not supposed to be. If they want to start families from scratch then we need to listen to older generations about how to raise families.
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A
female
reader, Euphoric29  +, writes (22 May 2014):
Dear OP,
Thank you for clarifying about the beer incident.
I can understand that you are very hurt. And it's hard, feeling outside the norm. Very hard. I can relate to that.
But if you act out your anger on other people and if it gets you bitter, you will lessen your chances at finding happiness.
Women aren't really raised to directly communicate things like "I don't want to date you anymore". Because amongst each other, women read between the lines. More than two excuses for not being able to meet.. we ladies generally know what's up. We understand we're not important and we should just move on. That woman you chased, she gave you every possible sign she is not interested in you, at all. And that adopted sister incident sounds really weird, I don't know what to make of it. Maybe she wanted to revenge her sister, who told all kinds of things about you (because she felt stalked? threatened?). After all your text messages were passive-aggressive and far from romantic.
My advice is to please stop hating other people. See this situation in your life as a big challenge: Yes, you're in your late twenties, you feel lonely etc. But focus on what you really want: LOVE. You want a girlfriend, right? Instead of denying your wish and telling yourself all girls are the same, etc.. really focus on that goal. Improve your people skills, go out more, do more therapy.. do whatever it takes. And take responsibility for your actions. Assume that it's your task to make social interactions go well. And if you're not sure if a woman wants to date you, ask her in a non-threatening way. That way, you'll learn the truth sooner and waste less time. The key to love and dating is really a positive attitude and good communication. If you expect bad things to happen and you're not able to talk about possible misunderstandings, you'll end up in bad situations again.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2014): She turned you down continuously and you kept harassing her, that's not dating, if a girl says no, move on, don't follow her for a decade.
You seem highly misogynistic in your reply, if you expect women to respect you, you'll need to work on that.
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI don't know if I'm on the aspergers scale because only until a couple years ago (less than 4) I never thought about ending up defined by some scale, or just some definition in some psychologists manual. It's a long story about the beer incident, a girl who blew me off for 6 months we only hung out once, the second time she disrespected me by faking to have an asthma attack (I should've realized right then and there she was lying since she chain smoked 3 cigarettes plus she isn't the best at stage acting) so I saw her a few weeks later in a bar again, but she was with a guy I went up to her and said "hey, how have you been?" She told me done choice words! And the last thing I remembered from her before was "I'm wishy washy and a huge flake!" You know when she said it, it's like she expected me to interpret literally as "you may not see me again, or hear from me?" Idk ...So I said "so I see your back on the dating market, have you been busy being a wishy washy flake or was I the only one????!" She hid her blushed face under her hand looking down in embarrassment with the guy being speechless. I saw her the next day driving and she gave me the finger driving but I did too lol before she was having a hard time even getting up the nerve to put off hardcore partying to take a walk at the park. She told me things like "dogs need a vet visit","dad needs me to give him a haircut!" , "I have to get my computer fixed!" The computer is when I responded to her via text "do you want to get drinks the next day, OR is your hard drive scheduled to break?" Being assertive with that text she met up. But it was too much trouble. Then I realized a few weeks afterwards her best friends best friend is friends with my best friends gf ? So it doesn't matter that I tried to be tactful, or trying to defend myself. Because the fact I guess I tried to date her, I've lost maybe 6 friends since her best friends BFF, and all have just lied non stop, spreading rumors, trying to get my best friends gf to cut off ties to me? Now the beer incident happened because I didn't realize the one girl I offered to buy a drink for was the same girls adopted sister? Then I felt the ice cold miller, then I guess she or someone else called to john q law because apparently maybe at a bar they expected more drama? But I think it was done for the cops to say I smelled like alcohol? Thank God for bars with cameras lol cop just was like "yeah, I get enough of these stupid fucking domestic calls!" So it seems that if I show up, it's an issue. Yeah I know bars are for hooking up and with how I never went to a 4 year college to experience the dorm life I wanted to make up for it? But it's usually short lived when I'm shut down by *sigh* the jerks. It's like how my friend said "those kinds of guys will have their fun now, but when they get to be around 40 the experiences will make them a humble person." I agree and I just hope they don't allow the circle to repeat with young men like their sons, nephews, etc... The world has enough jersey shore in the bars let alone more generations. I see a psychiatrist but he hasn't addressed the issues of my insufficient love life. He's more concerned with drug interaction from the prescription I'm on. I know it isn't as big a problem as people think, but it's not going stop anyone from judging. My dad's not around anymore, it'd just me and mom. The issue with the two girls, they were my friends for years first, but we're dating other guys and I hoped that they would free up in time for me to try and see if they wanted to be more, but I'm not friends with the one girl because afterwards she stopped talking to me, now she's engaged. And the other girl is out of state now. I feel like there's still time, but I hate that the peanut galleries always come back with something like "ummm no gf, you never dated, never had sex, your almost 30, your just too old sorry!" I laugh how girls in high school developed themselves around magazines like Cosmospolitan whose sole target market is women in their mid thirties lol. Just one opinion yet there's still marriages, children being born in lesser countries than mine and I keep that in mind that no matter how much we think we know, someone is always to go against the norm, I've just learned to accept how I may never get to those plateaus of my life, I'm just so lonely and I hope that someday I'll meet someone who shares in my commonalities, never dated, had sex, etc... only because I don't want to look or sound pathetic (even though I wod be honest?) trying to explain myself and I hate the answer "oh we'll, if you never had a gf you have issues!" Idk, just sounds like what my dad would say is "an excuse in the exercise of futility"
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female
reader, YoungButNotNaive  +, writes (21 May 2014):
 Regarding your statement about liking one girl for 8 years, and another for 14, has me wondering just how much you're actually making an effort to meet new girls? It can't be all that much if you can get stuck on one girl for THAT long. Are you relying on bars and clubs as your ONLY source of meeting girls? Even though you didn't mention being at a bar or club, you said you get beer poured on you when you ask someone out. So I know you're going somewhere drinking is involved. Which leads me to another question, what exactly are you saying to girls to get them so upset they pour their drinks on you AND get the police involved? Anyway, before I get sidetracked, I want to get back to my first question. If you ARE indeed choosing bars and clubs for meeting girls, you're looking in the wrong places if you want something meaningful. I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE to meet someone descent there, just that it's highly unlikely. People who hang out at those places are usually looking to hook up for the night, IF they are looking for anyone at all. Sometimes when you see groups of girls, they are simply there to have fun with their friends, and have boyfriends/husbands at home. There are websites such as meetup.com that help you find people in your area with similar interests, if you're not one to get out much besides work. There are all sorts of activities on it, and dates listed for when the groups meet. So it's not a dating site by any means, but that doesn't mean you couldn't meet someone. I asked a question recently because I have difficulty making friends. I admit it's difficult to stay positive after a number of rejections. However, you have to because you can get yourself into bad situations if you don't. Saying things like you could care less, that girls hate you (negativity) is getting you nowhere. And you DO care otherwise you wouldn't be asking for advise. Change your outlook first, then change how you approach girls. If you're taking the same approach over and over, how can you expect a different outcome? I would start by building your confidence. What is something you're good at? Or something you feel REALLY accomplished after doing? Do those things more often, it will help. Something else in your post that stood out to me was when you said that girls would rather rant about hot guys. It made me wonder, are YOU only going for "hot" girls? And do you go for the same "type" of girl over and over? If so, this is also part of your problem. What qualities do you find attractive in a girl? Do you find yourself not wanting to approach girls who don't meet your physical preferences? I'm not suggesting you approach women you find unattractive, just that you don't ONLY go for what you perceive to be the BEST looking women in the room. Looks/attraction are important for a healthy relationship, yes. But remember, someone who is only average/pretty-but-not-beautiful to you in the beginning can become MORE attractive as you get to know them. It can also work the other way, too. So going for the hottest girls all the time can backfire.Bottom line, work on yourself FIRST. You can't expect anyone to like you if they can clearly tell you don't like yourself.
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female
reader, Euphoric29 +, writes (20 May 2014):
Dear OP,
If you keep mourning over rejection for years, you don't give anybody else a chance. There is always someone in the world who only wants to be friends with you, nobody is attractive to everyone. But it's your choice to stay in someone else's friendzone and not date anybody else. If you want to get out of this sad situation, stop blaming women and jerks. You are writing like everyone was shallow and mean. You create a tale where you are the victim. I doubt this is all true, as I didn't hear those other peoples version of the story. Start working towards your goal of getting a real girlfriend, by improving your people skills and by taking responsibility for your life. It would be best if you had professional help for this.
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female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (20 May 2014):
 I think you need to look at YOU here for a long minute. You seem to blame GIRLS for you being "Friend-zoned".
You sound like one of those men we get on DC who claims to be "good guys" and that all women rather DATE assholes. That is pretty warped.
And I'm sorry you have wasted YEARS liking ONE girl. I just don't understand why you think it's HER obligation to LIKE you back because you are crushing on her. If someone DOESN'T return your feelings it IS OK, but it means you NEED to try your luck elsewhere.
I AGREE with Cerberus saying that your view of women is part of what holds you back, that and your sense of entitlement. You aren't OWED a GF. You don't get one "issued for personal use" when you hit a certain age. You don't have to protect women from jerks, but you do have to respect the women around you, not look at us like we have 8 limbs and 5 eyes.
Do you have any social anxieties? Can you easily read people or do you find it almost impossible to read them? Please don't take this as an insult, I'm only going by what you write - are you on Aspergers Scale, by any chance?
If you keep doing the same thing expecting a different result, then at some point you are GOING to have to realize that YOU need a new approach.
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male
reader, Mark1978 +, writes (20 May 2014):
Op can yo maybe give us more details to go on? Such as why the girl pour drink on you or what your approach is when chatting up girls?
Also how did you behave towards the women you liked for 8 years and 13 years? were you friends but they didn't want anything more or were they people who you felt hated you or ignored you for that time? Perhaps if you explained more details we could explore more detailed answers.
Mark
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 May 2014): Yeah it's you, OP. Beer being thrown on you, the cops called, liking a woman for 8 years, it's definitely you.
Forgive me, OP but you sound mentally not all there. I mean that with the greatest respect, but 8 years liking a woman and now 14 years?
The way you talk about women makes it sound like you're speaking about an alien species, something completely different to you or I, when they're nothing of the sort. They're just humans with vaginas not some kind of mythological beings.
You should probably seek professional therapy about this, OP. I know guys who have never had a proper relationship and would like one but it's just never happened, who have healthy perceptions of women just not a great perception of themselves. I've also met guys like how you sound and they have a very warped view of women, a perception of them being some kind of alien creature that acts like they do in the movies. An object that should respond to their attention in a set way and appreciate that. I've also seen that kind of behaviour in autistic men, not that I'm implying anything but your lack of empathy towards women is very odd.
14 years being obsessed with the same girl is fucked up, OP, it's something worthy of going seeking serious help for.
You certainly need a lot more help than we can give you here, what do your friends and family say about all this? Do they know?
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female
reader, TasteofIndia +, writes (20 May 2014):
 Whoa, okay - big, BIG red flag here...
How exactly are you asking girls out to warrant getting BEER POURED ONTO YOU? Followed by a VISIT FROM THE POLICE?!??!
It's one thing to suffer rejection consistently, but that sort of reaction suggests that you are being wildly inappropriate or have the all time worst timing ever.
Maybe you should go into some more detail before you get any suggestions...
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