A
male
age
30-35,
*latant Disregard
writes:I’m finally old enough and financially secure enough to be married. What I found, which surprised me, is that I have a completely different attitude towards what I look for in a girlfriend than what I do in a potential wife.I did a quick google search about what most men look for when considering a woman for marriage because I though I was losing my mind, and came across this site and saw a bunch of men lamenting their girlfriend’s sexual past. I was shocked by what I read.I never really considered those kinds of things when dating. I never asked those types of questions, and it only bothered me a little when girlfriends would give too much info on their past. I’d shoot them a dirty look, they’d apologize, and we’d just go about our day. No worries.But now that I look at each girlfriend as wife potential, i take it much more seriously. I’ve never been a player, and my numbers are low especially compared to other men my age...then again, I think most of them are lying to look cool. I’ve been with 9 women, all of whom were girlfriends lasting at least 8 months. Two of them nearly three years.I cannot for the life of me figure out why its impossible to find a girlfriend between the ages of 25 and 29 who has not slept with at least 16 men. Most of them have partner numbers ranging in the low to mid 20’s.I’m not posting this asking for help getting over her past. It’s a personal standard that I’m quite comfortable with. I’m not like those guys who get all tore up about it, jealous, and get sick to my stomach thinking about it. I just silently move her from the "long term" list in my mind to the "good time girl" list, and move on in my search without sleeping with her (Gasp! What a novel concept!)And before the inevitable gaggle of reformed sluts jump down my throat with venomous responses, I’d like to say that I’m not insecure about my looks or performance in bed. I’m no sexual God, but I’ve never had any complaints and all of my girlfriends tend to stick around for a while. Whatever it is I have to offer seems to be at the very least acceptable.I’ve never dated what one would call a typical "slutty" girl. I’ve never pulled some booty-dancing skank off the dance floor at 2am in a club and expected to find a decent woman. The girls I meet, yes the ones with the high numbers, are good, sweet women who are close to their families and seem to have a lot to offer. So the whole "you need to meet better women" advice I’ve been getting doesn’t seem to apply. I meet them at coffee shops, museums, professional organizations through work, and while volunteering.How many other men are like me? I can’t be crazy, can I? My views are that if you have slept that many men, there’s gotta be at least a handful of them for whom you were nothing more than a warm place to put it. A locker room story about the easy tail they hooked up with last night. Having even one story like that floating around about the future mother of my children is completely unacceptable.The only feedback from women I have ever had on this is "everyone makes mistakes". A mistake!? Going to the airport and forgetting your blackberry is a mistake! How these women have chosen to behave is a lifestyle. It’s their decision, but its one I’m not comfortable with.I’m not a religious nut, and I don’t expect to marry a virgin. All I want to hear out of a potential marriage partner is that, regardless of the number, she has never been intimate with anyone who didn’t love her or at least care about her and respect her. Is that too much to ask? Apparently so.Here’s how it plays out in my head:WOMAN: I want to get married.MAN: Ok. What does that entail?WOMAN: If you cheat on me, I’ll take your kids and half your shit. If I cheat on you, I’ll take your kids and half your shit. If I wake up one morning and decide that I simply don’t want to be with you anymore, I’ll take your kids and half your shit.MAN: Wow. That’s a huge risk. What do I get in return?WOMAN: My love, my heart, my body, and the opportunity to father children.MAN: Well, you just said you could take the children for any reason, and the other stuff you’ve already given to two dozen other men with no request for commitment. Why would I sign a risky marriage contract for that?WOMAN: You’re immature.I would love feedback on my line of thinking. Do some men really not care about such things? Do some men truly believe that character is not defined as the sum of a person’s choices? I know people change, but they change what they do, not who they are.Women, do you really expect to jump from bed to bed until you decide to settle down, and then find a man to respect you and your choices? A man who will give himself to you 100% when you’ve never required such a commitment from scores of other men?
View related questions:
her past, immature, insecure, jealous, move on, player, sexual past Reply to this Question |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, Tisha-1 + ♥, writes (29 September 2009):
 As there are people here with actual relationship problems and this question has received more than its share of the aunts' attention, and is apparently only fodder for an article, the question is being closed.
A
male
reader, Blatant Disregard +, writes (29 September 2009):
Blatant Disregard is verified as being by the original poster of the question @ Ask oldersisterAh, the old “don’t label me” response. That stopped being a valid argument in 1983, if memory serves. It’s 2009, and we’re on to the “don’t hold me accountable for my decisions – ever” defense now, just in case you didn’t get that memo.The rest of your banter would only show a “loophole” in my linear logic if my original argument was that women who slut it up are worthless human beings. I never said anything of the sort. Of course we all learn from mistakes and become better for it. That’s kind of the definition of life. Regardless of that important fact, each of us, man or woman, has the right to choose a partner based on their selected criteria. I’m simply stating my criteria and asking for feedback. And I appreciate yours.But, I don’t need a “defense”. The question I posted was “Who agrees and disagrees with me?” Not, “Am I right about this?” Still, this is fun.Lastly, a few wonderful women have “volunteered” for my “project” as you called it, and I’m reasonably confident that others will too. Now stop and think about the negative thoughts you just had about the women who would find a dumbass like me appealing, and then apologize for “relegating” them into “categories”.
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A
female
reader, Ask oldersister + ♥, writes (29 September 2009):
 "I grow weary of these archetypal responses"- like we are all a 'collective' or 'clones' of one another, stripped of our individual opinions, whatever. You sure enjoy relegating people into categories.
"I challenge each of you to burn your diploma, trash your photographs, and take a blank resume to your next job"- because that would prove the past does not define us? Now there's a loophole a in 'linear' logic. A diploma and resume just represents a history/experience of what you've learned in school or on the job and you can fail a test in a course and still earn a degree. Same concept with relationships. You pretty much just undermined your whole defense.
"So if the past means nothing and does not define a person"- do you ever read biographies of successful people in history? They will tell you they learned the most from their failures yet that's not what they are known for.
"I know how much of a better man I am with the companionship and advice of a strong, educated woman"- I totally agree but I doubt one is going to volunteer for that project.
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A
male
reader, Blatant Disregard +, writes (29 September 2009):
Blatant Disregard is verified as being by the original poster of the question@ marieclarie Just looking for feedback for an article. So far what I’m getting is that there are plenty of “good girls” out there, but I’m a judgmental idiot for trying to find them. I think I just found my title!@ eyeswideopen Lunch is packed…and I brought enough for two because I’m sure I’ll eventually find her.@ everyone else Thanks for the feedback. Even the nasty remarks made me think, and I appreciate everyone’s point of view.
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A
female
reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (29 September 2009):
 Still getting that vibe but I do wish you success in your search, it may be a long one best pack a lunch.
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A
female
reader, marieclaire  +, writes (29 September 2009):
 if you're happy with the way you feel then why are you here?
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male
reader, Blatant Disregard +, writes (29 September 2009):
Blatant Disregard is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOh no! What shall become of me? I grow weary of these archetypal responses.
If I broke up with someone based on differences in age, religion, humor, world views, definition of family, intelligence, geography, child rearing philosophy, general personality, personal hygiene, drive for success, etc, that would be fine. But if I have an opinion on how my future wife views intimacy, I’m judgmental and narrow minded. Priceless.
I think I’ll go tell the cops that I robbed a bank two years ago, but they can’t hold it against me because it’s in the past and I learned from it.
By the way, I love women. I know how much of a better man I am with the companionship and advice of a strong, educated woman. That’s why I’m hell bent on finding one! Men think in a linear fashion (that should be obvious from my post) while women can organize thoughts from the periphery. What man in his right mind would not be better off partnered? Just looking for the right one ladies, that’s all.
So if the past means nothing and does not define a person, I challenge each of you to burn your diploma, trash your photographs, and take a blank resume to your next job interview.
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A
female
reader, Ask oldersister + ♥, writes (29 September 2009):
I agree.
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A
female
reader, marieclaire +, writes (29 September 2009):
eyeswideopen- i'm getting a very misogynistic vibe too. blatant, i think you will be alone for a very long time, any woman worth her salt won't want to be with someone so judgemental and narrow minded.
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A
female
reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (29 September 2009):
Why am I getting the vibe that you really don't like women all that much, virtuous or not?
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A
male
reader, Blatant Disregard +, writes (29 September 2009):
Blatant Disregard is verified as being by the original poster of the question@ Ask oldersister
I’ve never asked a woman how many men she’s been with. Not even once. The conversation always seems to follow the same path. She starts with the typical crap girls tell guys to boost their ego: “You’re different, I really like you, I’ve been through so very many jackasses, and I really feel lucky to have found you, blah blah blah. This one guy I dated…and then this guy I met on vacation…and then this guy…and this one…etc. After about 20 minutes of name after name after name, I get the picture. Basically all I’m hearing is “Here is a rundown of all the terrible decisions I’ve made, and proof that I didn’t learn a thing from any of them – allowing the cycle to continue. Most of them got in my pants with little or no commite
And I know women lie about their past. That’s why I never ask. I’d come closer to finding Jesus in line for a Starbucks at the mall than getting a truthful answer about someone’s past.
@ marieclaire
It matters not if she still respects herself after a one night stand. I’m talking about the level of respect I’m willing to give her. And yes, I do think it’s my place to judge someone for something they’ve done, what they’re doing now, and what they’re likely to do in the future – especially when that person could potentially change the rest of my life.
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A
female
reader, marieclaire +, writes (29 September 2009):
i think ask older sister makes some excellent points. and i do wonder if a woman feels that having sex with someone when she's lonely (between boyfriends, drunk etc) doesn't degrade her in anyway and she is happy to do that because that is what she wants, and she still respects her self, do you still judge? and do you think it's your place to judge someone for the things they've done?
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A
male
reader, Blatant Disregard +, writes (29 September 2009):
Blatant Disregard is verified as being by the original poster of the questionmarieclaire,
I’m careful not to fall in love too quickly, to avoid such things – not just if she has a past, but all the other things that come in to play when exploring compatibility. Just like she is doing with me, no doubt, and she should. But I have definitely “ruined it” as you call it due to an otherwise great woman’s past. I have no regrets, but it is certainly regrettable, if that makes any sense.
As far as what number is too many for me, it’s not really about a number. I use the Lowest Common Denominator approach regarding this issue. That is, I refuse to give a woman more respect than the least amount of respect she’s demanded from any other man. So if she got drunk or was just feeling lonely between boyfriends (I hear that one all the time) and allowed some college dude she just met to hit it for a one nighter, that’s the highest level of respect she will ever get from me on that issue. She can be a fantastic person otherwise, and we can be friends, but there’s no way I’d ever consider having a long term relationship with her.
Funny thing is I’ve never once had to ask about such things. Why women volunteer this info and think it’s cute, I’ll never know.
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A
female
reader, Ask oldersister + ♥, writes (29 September 2009):
I would say your line of thinking and line of questioning while dating would certainly send quality females running the other direction. I've had 3 guys ask me before even the 3rd date about how many men I've been with and that's too personal, it's none of their business- I never went out with them again.
The type of female that would meet your criteria is going to be one that doesn't openly discuss sex with someone she just started dating or barely knows. I have to question the type of women you are dating. At least the ones that say 20+ are honest! The others that low ball that number are probably good actresses and LYING if they are willing to discuss sex so openly.
So far, all you have to provide sounds like financial stability with a lot of judgement and strings attached. Most quality women are going to be educated and independent and don't need a BMW dangled like a carrot as an incentive to be a "good girl". They can buy their own.
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female
reader, marieclaire +, writes (28 September 2009):
like eyeswideopen implied, you really don't get to choose who you fall in love with, would you want to ruin it because you find out she has past? and how many is too many for you?
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A
female
reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (28 September 2009):
and, Blatant, that hand really, really creeps me out, it's even worse than baddog's dog.
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A
female
reader, Accountable  + ♥, writes (28 September 2009):
Thats fine if its not what you're looking for in a potential wife - I was just presenting a possible answer to your statement, "I know people change, but they change what they do, not who they are". I believe that in fact the change can go the opposite way (that is to say, the change in behaviour is a result of a change of character). If you want a ready-made wife who has stuck to a consistent morality all her life, then thats your choice, and its a sound one. I understand completely why you wouldnt want to take the risk - after all its unrealistic to assume that all promiscuous women will have this epiphany and change! I just personally don't think all women who have a promiscuous past should be condemned without consideration. :)
Anyway, in answer to a question posed in the final paragraph of your post, there are many women (myself included) who don't have the ambition of jumping from bed to bed - theyre out there to find, for those who are looking.
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A
female
reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (28 September 2009):
Good luck with your search, I hope you don't "accidentally" fall in love with the wrong woman, that would be a total bummer.
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male
reader, Blatant Disregard +, writes (28 September 2009):
Blatant Disregard is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAccountable,I see your point, and yes there is merit to the argument that someone may live a promiscuous life, and then decide that it’s empty, and not what they want. I guess I’m just looking for the woman who figured that out before learning the hard way (no pun intended). I don’t have to jump off a 20 story building to know it’s not a good idea.As far as the "double standard", I don’t think it applies here. I wouldn’t blame a woman one bit for not wanting a former player as a husband – regardless of how sorry he is for his past actions. And yes, he may make for a perfectly wonderful family man, just as a woman with a more promiscuous past may make a wonderful wife and mother. I’m just not willing to take that chance right now.
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female
reader, Accountable + ♥, writes (28 September 2009):
I think its a difficult issue. I can understand why you wouldnt readily hand over your trust to somebody who you feel has proven themselves to be morally lacking in the past, but really that is what it is - the past. If their experiences have caused them to recognise that a promiscuous life is empty and not one they want, then surely the number of partners is irrelevant - as long as they now feel that what they want is to devote themselves to one person and settle down. In fact they may be more faithful than a woman who has never experimented, and comes to find family life boring and wants to find a new thrill. I feel this kind of reform is possible, but I guess if you don't I can't change that!
I agree with one of the anon posters below - the social attitude towards sex has definitely shifted; the media openly encourages it, and girls who feel they have stuck to their morals and stayed virgins are made to feel as though they are abnormal, even unloveable. I can certainly say this is true for my age bracket, being 17 (though I'm not sure whether it would necessarily apply to the women of the age you are looking for as a wife). This does not mean that they will be unfaithful wives who are only out for your assets.
As for Jayney Y's post, although i don't agree with the way the point was made i think it contains a valid one. There is a certain double-standard. If men have many sexual partners, theyre seen as a stud - a woman with the same amount is labelled a whore. I am certainly not saying its all males' fault that some women are promiscuous, or that all men are sexual preators etc etc, but i am interested to see whether you would consider any of these men to be potential family men, should they suddenly decide they want a family and an 'honest' woman?
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female
reader, marriedlady + ♥, writes (28 September 2009):
 rofl! Hahaha
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A
male
reader, Blatant Disregard +, writes (28 September 2009):
Blatant Disregard is verified as being by the original poster of the questionJayney Y,
Thank you for your kind words. Indeed, men are to blame for all of the trials and tribulations women face. We’re terrible manipulative creatures. If it weren’t for men, the women of the world would be busy feeding the poor, rescuing puppies and getting baptized again whether they needed it or not. I’m so embarrassed by my post. Is my face red?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (28 September 2009): Unfortunately, I can not really offer any advice as I find myself in your shoes. I agree with you 100%. You are spot on about everything you said. Especially marriage. I don't see how these girls rope us into getting married for this very reason. Its like all the jackasses got to have her body when she was in her prime, but now that she's found a "nice guy" she wants him to treat her like his queen and provide with financial, emotional support, and raise her children. The nice guy gets nothing in return that he couldn't get while being single.
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male
reader, softtouchmale2003 + ♥, writes (28 September 2009):
 If you're judgmental, then that will not be very attractive to a girl, even if she's a virgin. The point is, no one can love another person if they are not accepting of his or her faults.
The assumption that a woman might take 1/2 your shit and the kids is false. You can fix that with a pre-nup and post-nup agreement drawn by a skilled marital lawyer.
But if you obsess about how many men your girlfriend slept with or might have slept with, or what your potential life partner (e.g. wife) thinks about sex much less how many sex partners she's had then you can't be happy.
Its not the sexual past or history, its the person you marry. And the way you decide who you want in your life is by setting down reasonable parameters as to what kind of person you want for a wife.
But if you suspect everyone, judge all, and fail to accept even the least carnal of them; then you're never going to find a wife.
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A
female
reader, celtic_tiger + ♥, writes (28 September 2009):
 I am one of the 25-29 age bracket, and I have never jumped from bed to bed, and nor do I ever intend to. I am waiting for the right man to come along, and I do not plan on sleeping about just for the heck of it. Personally I would also be put off by a man who had a lot of partners, it would suggest to me that he had been a player, and I would worry that he wasnt up for commitment. However, it would be down to the individual. If you find the person you click with, then it wouldnt matter if they were a virgin or had a whole list of past relationships. Its about the person you fall in love with, who you want to spend the rest of your life with. When you find the person you love with all your heart you will know, and it will feel right, regardless of their past. You just know, and it may not fit in with anything you expect now.
There are girls with morals and self respect out there, you just have to find us.
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female
reader, Jayney Y  + ♥, writes (28 September 2009):
 Your ignorance is absolutely astounding. The answer to your question is that women rarely force themselves sexually upon men, or emotionally blackmail or manipulate men into sex, or take advantage of men when they are too drunk to make a wise choice, but men do ALL of those things to women - and they do them a lot. The type of men who do these sort of things to women are usually the same men who label women 'sluts' or 'whores', etc. You know buddy, most women who work in the sex industry don't really like it, they just end up there somehow, quite often because some low-life male has had a huge influence on them and screwed their life up. Re: Your comment about "reformed sluts" jumping down your throat. I'm not one of 'them', (oh, but wait, I think I've had more than one sexual partner, maybe in your mindless book I am), but I am a despiser of pea-brained males who are so ignorant of what their buddies get up to with women. Your hypocrisy and small mindedness are monumental. I hope you end up marrying a woman who's slept with every football team in the US, and you don't find out 'til after you've got kids.
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female
reader, marieclaire +, writes (28 September 2009):
i'm married and have only had 3 partners so i'm not one of the "reformed sluts" you're talking about but your attitude is typical of a certain type of man. i do think that it is chauvanistic, there's a double standard in play and your ideas about marriage make me think that it is not the right path for you. marriage is not about what you "get" from someone. but as you're perfectly comfortable with your views, what exactly are you asking for?
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female
reader, satindesire +, writes (27 September 2009):
 Um, you DO realize that FA is a MAN, right?
See that "A Male Reader" thingie right by his name? Yeaaaah.
He's not looking for any guy to buy him a BMW. He had a promiscuous past that many men think is 'normal' for males and 'abnormal' for women. People, as in both genders, grow out of this behavior.
Thing is, once a person does grow out of that behavior, they should not be judged by that past behavior once they have ceased it. Holding someone accountable for things they did years in the past just shows a sincere lack of self esteem and confidence in the judging party.
And you're absolutely right about the Karmic aspect of your angry feelings and your inability to forgive. It is quite possible that you may find the "One" that you think you want to spend the rest of your life with, only to find that she dislikes YOUR past and is unwilling to not judge you for it.
I believe you should take some serious self-reflecting time and decide if you'd rather be RIGHT...or HAPPY.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 September 2009): I just wanted to voice an opinion here...I believe that girls now adays are under much pressure to have sex and it's all they see in the media. I think the situation is only going to get worse. Just 30 years ago, girls in high school were still afraid to have sex, now a blowjob is not considered sex.I feel sorry for young girls and boys, but especially girls because no matter what they see their idols doing, and no matter what the boys are doing(having sex without repercussions), they are still supposed to hang on to their virtue. It is an impossible situation.
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male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (27 September 2009):
 Blatant,
It is as I feared. you are unable to forgive. Without that ability you are not ready to get married. A marriage cannot survive without that ability. I am glad that you are not out looking for a much younger girl just to find one without a history. I believe that you are cynical enough to see that that is not the solution to your dilemma.
FA
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male
reader, Blatant Disregard +, writes (27 September 2009):
Blatant Disregard is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks everyone for the feedback.
@statindesire ...... I’m not painting all women with the same brush. I’m painting all the women I have met in the past few years with the same brush. I’ll keep looking, and if I never find her, so be it. Who knows, I may find my perfect girl, and she’ll be freaked out that I’ve been with 9 other women. Could happen, I guess.
@FA ...... Thank you for your input. Perhaps I’m a bit cynical, but I see one of your comments completely differently:
You wrote: "...I know I lived a lifestyle you don't approve of, but I have changed and I don't live that way now."
My interpretation: "I had fun being Lindsay Lohan, but now that I’m getting older and my biological clock is ticking, I want to be Mother Teresa. All my friends are either engaged or married, so I’m looking for educated, financially stable guys like you to help me start a family and keep me in a new BMW every two years."
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female
reader, Ginalolabridga + ♥, writes (27 September 2009):
 As an older woman i am very proud of the fact i have had one partner my whole life and he is my husband, for me loyalty and faithfulness was a no:1 priority in my book.
Maybe when i grew up as a teenager in the 70s things were different girls just never gave themselves away so easily as some do now.
We had values and morals we stuck by and were proud when we could say no to any young man's advances, then no was no!
I think you just have to keep looking they are good girls out there, i would like to think that not all are so free with their most precious gift that you can give to another.
Gina
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female
reader, satindesire +, writes (27 September 2009):
Not only have I never jumped from bed to bed, I've had less partners than yourself. So has my husband.
Not all women are like this. If you stop painting all women with the same tarred brush and let go of your angry antagonistic feelings, you may just hook that good girl you've been wanting.
God knows my husband got his.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 September 2009): I agree, you need to find a woman who shares your values.
Now, Personally, I don't care how many man my wife has slept with, nor have I ever been so bold to ask her to disclose to me the number. Frankly, I don't care, and I seriuosly doubt that an ex would circulate any storys about her to the point that it would ever get anywhere near abck to us.
My wife and I were in HS in the 70's, college in the 80's and we both enjoyed those times. Part of the pre-aids/1980's/college life came with a less conserative sexual attitude. If she slept with 3 or 12 guys in college I don't care... nearly 30 years later it simply doesn't matter. What matters is that she and I have connected and have a great life together and share the same ideals. We are each others last partners... and life is good.
If you're worried about your possessions, get an attorney and draw up a pre-nep. neither of us decided to go that route and each of us has plenty of assests to protect, but at some point TRUST has to enter into the marriage.
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female
reader, marriedlady + ♥, writes (27 September 2009):
first let me say that this post is very well put together. Unusually clear on all points. There are both men and women with your values. They are not easily found. Thats because at your age they are weary. They have grown discouraged with the whole dating routine. All of their friends and family have tried their matchmaking skills and proclaimed them "too picky." But this one thing i promise you. There are a few still out there. Dont settle for less.
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male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (27 September 2009):
Me too. I agree that you want to marry someone who has a set of values that match yours. It is going to make things easier all around. One thing you should be more flexible on is forgiveness. You should realize that people can change.
It's not oops I made 17 mistakes but you can trust me now. . . .
Its more of I know I lived a lifestyle you don't approve of, But I have changed I don't live that way now.
About the risks of being married, Well that comes with the territory. You want to be married you take that risk.
FA
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 September 2009): You dont marry just to have sex. So why should the sexual part of a marriage matter more then other aspects? You are fine thinking the way you do. Its a personal preference and something you feel comfortable/uncomfortable with. Others have other preferences.
You are completely right though to differentiate between "fun time girls" and "marriage potential". Even women do that. However, its not impossible to find women with the same values as you. In fact I know a lot more women who are careful about who they sleep with then I know men who are careful. So no, all hope isn't out. But those who are careful about who they sleep with will probably not have the number of partners written on their foreheads, so Im afraid you have to do like women do: kiss some frogs before you find your princess!
I believe men and women alike care about these things. Ive read many women here on DC or other agony aunt places who are scared by their partners past and find the number of sexual encounters to be unattractive. I also know of many for whom it simply does not matter. When it's right it's right and you will know it.
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