A
male
age
41-50,
*aphazard79
writes:Hello everyone,Thanks for taking the time to read this and offer advice if able. My question is how do I deal with my wife's constant changing thoughts on sex and her naughty behavior. For some backstory, we're both mid 30's, been married for 10 ears and together 13. We have two kids, 5 and 7 years old. For the most part we have a good relationship. We are both really busy with work and school but enjoy spending down time together. The main issue is our sex life. I have a definite kinky side, enjoying pretty much anything you can think of, last several years I have been into hotwifing and a little cuckolding, enjoying when she is being naughty, and even when she forces me to do something I would never admit to doing (I'll let you guess what that is) . My wife on the other hand is pretty vanilla. The naughtiest thing she does is brings out a toy occasionally . This is unless she has been drinking. A little too much to drink and she basically turns very naughty, flirty, and sometimes promiscuous. All of this I have enjoyed very much. If she has been drinking, nothing is off the table and she is very proactive on trying new things and likes to be very dominant and a touch demeaning. She loves flirting, and I have caught her cheating a few times. Some of which I confronted her and others I have just secretly watched. Again, only when she's been drinking. Everything started going south when I saw her give a friend of mine a blow job on our deck a couple of months ago. After he left I had to have her and we had fantastic sex and I told her that I watched her give the blow job and how hot it was and told her a lot of more naughty things. She loved it! She asked me a ton of questions while we had sex; like if I wanted her to do it again and would I let her be a slut, how does it feel to know my friends dick was so much better and how she was going to ride him the next day. For me it was extremely hot. The problem is her behavior/mood in the following days. I would bring it up and she would instantly get irritated and mad at me. I tried to explain how I really enjoyed the evening and how turned on she had me, but I wanted to make sure she knew I wasn't upset. She wanted absolutely nothing to do with me and told me not to bring it up again. I was extremely frustrated and hurt as I really liked it and wanted it to be great for both of us. I really felt rejected.Several weeks go by and life is back to normal. A Friday night rolls around and she has one too many drinks and she becomes a sexual deviant. She went right back to the naughty talk, telling me what she wanted to do with a coworker and how she wants her and her best friend to take turns pegging me, and if I really want her to be naughty and suck my friends all I have to do is ask. Fast forward after the mind blowing sex for both of us and we're drifting off to sleep and I ask her how much of it did she actually mean? She replied "all of it, and even more."The next day she is treating me like I forced her to say those things and somehow abused her. I again felt truly rejected. What do I make of the hot and cold sexual desires? What am I doing wrong the next day? And how do I deal with the up and down Rollercoaster emotions I have? Sorry for the wall of text. I probably could have written pages on the difference my wife sober vs. Drunk. I didn't want to get to detailed on her desires as I didn't want to offend anyone.
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male
reader, Haphazard79 +, writes (3 November 2016):
Haphazard79 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you everyone for your advice and opinions. I did have a frank talk with her and tried to explain that while I enjoy her naughty desires I was hurt/rejected by her reactions the next day.
She explained that she is often confused and not sure how she really feels. Part of her feels like she is free to try anything or anyone she wants and she loves that idea but part of her then feels unloved and uncherished.
I let her know how much I love her and our marriage and am interested in exploring more but only if she agreed to try it sober and talk afterwards. She said she was willing to try being more open with her feeling but was afraid I would judge her if she told me how "slutty" she really wanted to be at times. She also commented that she does sometimes feel stuck and a little resentful if there is something sexual she wants to do but because of our vows.
I told her in no way was I interested in a truly open relationship but would be open to the idea of her exploring things as long as I was involved to an extent and there was good communication and we didn't risk our life together.
We spoke more and she continued to open up about her feelings and desires. Something she rarely did before. The weekend came around and she drank very little when our friends were over. She told me she was feeling naughty and wanted to do something but wanted me to control the situation. So I gave her two tasks, which she really enjoyed. The next day we briefly discussed it and made sure we were both okay.
My big fear currently is based on her current desires is I can foresee her going to far or potentially needing more.
Thanks again and if there are more thoughts, keep them coming.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (28 October 2016): "Drunk consent is not consent" This is possible because sometimes our legal system lets one side off the hook for their choices. The responsibility for both sides' choices gets piled entirely onto the other side to make up for it. This way of doing things is popular in the 21st century. But it is not logically defensible at all. The only logical fair thing do, would be to always hold both sides responsible for their choices. If you were conscious at the time, and you consented at the time, then the consequences later should be your responsibility.
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A
female
reader, like I see it +, writes (28 October 2016):
 Thanks for the follow-up, OP; it clears up a great deal.
Yes, she could be ashamed, but it seems less likely given your completely supportive and encouraging response to what others in different marriages would likely consider infidelity. If anyone has created a situation where their wife could feel comfortable being caught sexually with someone else, it seems you are that husband. Unless she is religious enough to believe that her romps have consequences above and beyond your reaction to them (i.e. "Sex outside my marriage is a sin and I'm going to hell for this") it's hard to tell what would be causing so much shame as to render the subject completely off limits for the type of casual, non-accusatory discussion you've tried to start with her.
I am curious - how does your wife feel (sober) about porn? The hotwife hookups are not unlike live porn (for you) that she is effectively acting out. If she enjoys or at least is comfortable with porn, it's probably a non-issue. But if she feels that porn objectifies or exploits women, it may bother her to realize that you're OK with sharing her on the basis that it's sexually gratifying for you to watch. I could see how that might devalue the commitment of marriage a little, at least as far as she is concerned, because it would appear to her that you value the pleasure you derive from watching her with others more than you do your mutual promise to forsake others. Remember, she theoretically traded vows with you expecting that you would be the last and only person she would ever be intimate with. And she was obviously OK with that at one point or she would not have accepted the proposal. If she truly desired the opportunity to play outside the relationship, I'm very surprised the subject of an open relationship was never broached while you two were just dating, with much less to lose if this got awkward. The fact that it was not, again leads me to believe that this is not necessarily something your wife would be doing on her own. Your initial post stated that YOU have been into hotwifing/cuckolding for a few years but your wife's background with this (if she has one) isn't as clear. Was this something you were fantasizing about privately or have you been suggesting it to her the past few years as well? Or is this something she has gotten into on her own that you just happened to already have an interest in as well? I think the answer to that question could potentially say a lot.
It's also worth noting that some people can be amorous drunks the way others are "happy" drunks or "mean" drunks. That would say more about your wife's inability to control her drinking to a level she's not embarrassed by the next day than it would her secret desires, if any, to cuckold you...
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A
female
reader, MartiJJ  +, writes (28 October 2016):
 You might want to try being honest with her both when she's drunk and when she's sober, tell her repeatedly how her Jekel and Hyde behaviour makes you feel, tell her how confused and upset you are about the whole situation and consider halting ALL activity until the issue is sorted, make sure she knows that whatever happens you'll be there to try and support her through everything, that your willing to attend counselling with her if that's what she thinks might help, but be prepared for her to stop drinking and stop your 'enjoyment' for a time until she knows or is able to admit it soberly what she really wants, it's unfair of her to keep resenting you for her own behaviour, she needs to take a step back and figure out her conflicted attitudes.
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A
male
reader, Haphazard79 +, writes (27 October 2016):
Haphazard79 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWow. Thanks everyone for the insightful and respectful answers. I had been looking at it from a "why doesn't she trust me enough to be honest with me?" perspective. Perhaps she does need to get drunk to get past the mental barrier. And I think there is something there about her not feeling cared for or cherished when I tell her I enjoyed watching her. And just to squash any arguments about concent, my wife was the initiator on the blow job. The said friend was over and my wife steered the conversation towards sex and what he and his ex girlfriend liked. Through the conversation she more or less was letting him know that she wanted to do stuff. The other side of it though is her vanilla/low sex drive when sober vs. Flirty, slutty/high sex drive when drunk. This isn't something that's new and is something I love about her. Although i do wish there was a happy medium sometimes. Could she just be ashamed of herself, knowing that I caught her doing something? Or ashamed of admitting her desires? Or upset with me that she even wants more besides me? Maybe she is just upset that I condone that behavior and she is being a little spiteful. She has been a little more demeaning in the bedroom as of late. Please keep the advice and opinions coming. As right now I cant get her to talk to me about this, it does help to vent and ask for advice here. Thank you.
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice + ♥, writes (27 October 2016):
 drunk consent is not consent
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A
female
reader, Ivyblue  +, writes (27 October 2016):
 In no way this to offend but what sprang to mind while reading your post was a documentary I watched about the porn industry. In a nut shell, in order to get through and mentally deal with what is required these people need drugs/alcohol to take away inhibitions otherwise they wouldn't be able to cope. Everyone can talk the talk but to be able to walk the walk...for your wife the reoccurring factor seems the alcohol. If it has been some years that you guys have enjoyed this kind of lifestyle and you say she is still kind of vanilla with out the alcohol, could it be that she indulges to such a degree because she is afraid if she doesn't keep upping the ante you will lose interest in her? Thus when she's sobered up, she may feel shame,humiliated or regret. I think you guys really need to seek some guidance from a sex therapist. No one is at fault here, just need to investigate for better understanding of whats really going on.
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A
female
reader, like I see it +, writes (27 October 2016):
Relax, male anon. If the friend was receiving a BJ against his will, that would also be sexual assault (by OP's wife) whether OP's wife was drunk or sober.
That said, the original post wasn't about OP talking to the male friend and hearing that the friend was drunk and regrets things and possibly considers the situation abuse. It was about OP talking to his wife, who he knows to have been drunk, and hearing that she regrets things and possibly considers it abuse. And the part about consent was meant to caution OP about getting his wife drunk (or using her intoxication) to enable her participation in the type of extramarital sexual activity that he enjoys and she seemingly doesn't, or at the very least has mixed feelings about. Abuse is not a word to use lightly and it is a powerful indicator of where her mind is at when she is sober and using all her judgement - just as it would be if the roles were reversed and a man said it. For OP's best interests, legally and in terms of his marriage, it does not seem wise to encourage her any farther in an optional sexual direction that she already feels (rightly or wrongly) that she was "forced" into (OP's word, not mine). At best it will build resentment. At worst it could eventually end up in a courtroom (divorce or otherwise).
Had this post been from a woman about her husband my advice would be exactly the same. I don't believe people of either gender should be or FEEL pressured into having sex they're not completely comfortable having. I say "feel" because OP's post doesn't contain any information suggesting he has tried to make his wife do any of this, or to encourage his friends to approach her. But something is clearly getting lost in translation because his wife is left FEELING like something happened outside her comfort zone when she sobers up. Clearly some part of the situation needs to change. Keeping alcohol out of the equation would be a good start.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (27 October 2016): "The friend getting a BJ could have been taking advantage of an intoxicated person"?
Getting a BJ is a pretty passive act for a man. What if the man later claims he was "too drunk to give consent"? Why shouldn't SHE be charged with sexual assault then, no matter how drunk she was?
That is what it's like being a man. You get held totally responsible for your actions when you are drunk.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 October 2016): I think deep down she feels hurt that you are turned on by her being with other people sexually. From a purely emotional stand point, this would not sit well with a woman. She may equate your ability to watch her give other men blow jobs or get intimate with other people as lack of caring, and not truly loving her. Not many men would want to share their wives sexually. Even if it was a fantasy that in theory could turn them on, a smart guy knows that he needs to keep those thoughts to himself, and fantasies, where they belong, in one's imagination. She may have been promiscuous in order to spite you and/or a twisted attempt to please you. Notice she needs to get drunk for that side to come out. It just isn't her in real life. This kind of sex play is dangerous and it is already destroying your marriage. She is clearly resentful. I suggest you seek counselling together or it's going to take a downward spiral.
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A
female
reader, like I see it +, writes (26 October 2016):
I think it's important to realize that the fantasies you are wanting your wife to live out with you (hotwife/cuckold) are right up there with hardcore BDSM on the list of "things that aren't for everyone." Unless you met your wife on a fetish site devoted to these types of fantasies, the odds that she would be independently wanting to have this kind of sex without suggestion from you are pretty low.
The fact that she has to be drunk for you to see this side of her suggests to me that this is not actually something she wants to pursue. She may enjoy it in the moment, but when she sobers up and tries to reconcile the torrid memories with her role as a wife, mother, and role model to both of your children, clearly it's not working for her. It seems you've made it very clear that you would welcome these types of activities on a more regular basis, and if she hasn't taken you up on the offer there's obviously a reason for that. I would not take it as a rejection of you - quite the opposite. She married YOU and on some level it clearly bothers her to be sharing herself physically with other men. What she does drunk is a much less accurate indicator of her true feelings than what she has to say about this while sober and in full control of her faculties. There is a lot of ambiguity over whether a truly drunk person can even GIVE consent to sex in the first place. The friend who used her for a blow job could very well have been taking advantage of an intoxicated person. HOW drunk she was matters a lot.
There's one more aspect of your post that concerns me, and that's the part where she seems to feel that this is abuse on your part. That is not an allegation to make (or to take) lightly. If your wife has used the word "abuse" to describe this situation, she is telling you in no uncertain terms that she isn't comfortable participating this kind of lifestyle. Whether she has tried it previously is, I'm afraid, not relevant to whether she consents to it now or in future. To give the most basic example, she could blow you every day of your marriage and then decide one day that she never wanted to give another blow job. Although perhaps a cruel decision, she would have the right to make it. No person owes anyone else anything sexually, regardless of how many times in the past they have done it or who with. Although it doesn't sound like you actually made her partake in any of these hookups, this is the part where you STOP hinting and suggesting and plying her with alcohol in the hopes that she gets sexual with other men. Immediately. Wait for her to come to you sober and ask to explore the hotwife lifestyle further. If she doesn't, the past has been the alcohol and the power of your suggestions, not her, and she is probably very relieved to have put it behind her.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having fantasies, but if both parties in a relationship can't agree that exploring the fantasy further is healthy and mutually consented to, they MUST be left as fantasy only. And unless consent is clearly given, you MUST assume for your own moral and legal protection that you do not have it.
Hope this helps. Best wishes moving forward.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (26 October 2016):
 I feel a little sorry for you wife here. I think she drinks herself silly to BE the woman YOU want her to be (not that I'm making this YOUR fault).
She is having issues with the whole whore/madonna thing. On one hand, she WANTS to be sexy, she wants to please you, but in order for HER to do these things she HAS to be drunk. Which to me means she isn't comfortable with those actions.
I don't think it's fair that she is making YOU responsible for her actions. Drunk or not, those WERE here choices - whether she likes them or not.
I think you two need to talk to a sex therapist. Someone who can mediate and have HER be honest with you. And... with herself.
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