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*indyCares
writes:I am curious to know your thoughts about the concept of "my house, my rules".Recently there was a question posted by an (over 18) OP living at home with her parents, who wanted to get a piercing against her mother's vigorous opposition.She got quite a dressing down by most of the responders... she lives at her parents' , with them and OFF them, so she should respect their wishes etc.Now, I admit that instinctively I cannot but agree, I would hate to live with a pierced son under my eyes, and, anyway, if you live under someone's roof and you don't like the rules and regulations, ...then change roof and go somewhere else, simple isn't it. But, I wonder where does it stop (if it does)? Where do we draw a reasonable limit ?I mean, sure, common sense helps us in deciding, I'd say it's obvious that I can't smoke cigarettes in a non-smoking household, or I can't keep everybody awake at night just because I like my music loud.But what about personal things like those pertaining clothing, body decoration, personal tastes etc... ?What if, say, a daughter wants to dye her hair a trashy platinum blonde, or get a conspicuous tattoo, or get fake boobs - and the parents don't like that ?... She would not actually hurt or damage anybody but, in case, herself....so, should she just go ahead and do it,.. or do "my house my rules" should also include the parents' ideas and preferences in matters of body image, social image , etc.. ?
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female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (7 March 2014):
CindyCares is verified as being by the original poster of the question Many thanks to ALL who responded for their detailed, well thought answers.
It was interesting to see how widely individual the possible deal breakers would be , how different for each respondent the triggers which would warrant a parental " over my dead body "- in a varied way that defies a fast -and-hard classification in " strict " or " permissive ".
I think that finally what emerges consistently is that ... being a parent is a heck of a hard job. Parents have to protect their kids without stifling them, to promote structure , discipline ( or self-discipline ) and healthy choices AND also the free individual expression of their kids' unique personalities ... I guess the trick would be to create such a bond of mutual acceptante, trust and respect that no kid should feel they have to become oppositional to be himself/herself , or do " weird " stuff JUST to show us how much they want to be different from us... a fascinating task, although surely a challenging one : being such an excellent parent (and person ) that our kids would be naturally ready to believe that when we say something is not OK or not a great idea , we actually know what we are talking about so might as well head the advice graciously :)....
Said that , I must say that I also like the simple , no-nonsense, no frills approach of Sageoldguy : boneheaded is what father says is boneheaded. It's not a matter of being a strict disciplinarian or a tyrant. It's that ,ultimately, we can only offer to our kids that wisdom and knowledge which WE , in good faith and with the best of intentions , recognize as wisdom and knowledge- it's a sincere, generous offer; what they will decide to do with that, it's upon them...
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reader, AuntyEm  +, writes (5 March 2014):
 I have two daughters. One 21 and the other 25. Both have tattoos and both have many piercings (navel, tongue,ears, septum, frenulum and chest). Both are polite, respectful, kind, loving and intelligent, both have graduated University and both have very good jobs and the youngest (who has 50% body tattoos) has also done modelling work in her spare time. My oldest is a political activist and womens campainer in her spare time. Both have decent partners.
I never saw their 'body modifications' as a barrier to respecting me as their Mother and apparently the rest of the world hasn't either. I just love them as they are so no rules were needed in my house :-)
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 March 2014): It depends. I'd be very liberal but put my foot down in terms of safety.
Look kids will take their own path in life regardless of your influence but I honestly can't see any kids I have being obsessed with having fake tits or anything ridiculous like that, they won't be overweight either. I say that because cosmetic surgery is something I will never allow while they are under my roof. They're under my protection, I won't allow them life threatening surgery for no good reason.
They can have as many tattoos/piercings etc. as they want on any part of their body but they have to stick to whatever uniform code there is in their school, some don't allow weird coloured dye jobs.
Nothing about what they look like has anything to do with their personal safety so they can wear what they want as long as when it matters they can also dress to suit to occasion. Only in extreme cases like they suddenly wanted to be a neo-nazi, or a Christian and wear swastikas or crosses, but I won't raise that kind of kid so it's fine. I find crosses to be deeply offensive, I don't think wearing a symbol of torture and slow death in the form of a crucifix is at all an appropriate way to express a belief, it says that person is oppressive and ignorant and I wouldn't want any of my children to think they can oppress others in that way.
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reader, Sageoldguy1465  +, writes (5 March 2014):
 HI Cindy. Good question......
It's my opinion that, as parents, we are allowed to apply what I call the "bonehead" rule to behaviour of those under our roof...... That is:
If your kid wants to do something that YOU think is stupid ("boneheaded") then you put your foot down and say, "no way,".....
What is boneheaded is a fluid concept... not cut-and-dried... and each parent is allowed to determine it (boneheadedness) for themselves.... and transmit it to their kids....
Hope this helps...
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 March 2014): I wouldn't say that a adult child who is paying rent should have more freedom and priveleges than an adult child who isn't paying rent. Whether or not they pay bills, they should be contributing something because I "earned my keep" even before I was allowed to get a job. Quite honestly, my parents wouldn't LET me work while I was in high school and said that I didn't have to pay rent unless I got a job - then they made sure every cent I earned went to rent/phone. Their POINT was so that I would continue living the way they raised me to: you don't stay out late (no reason to, everything you can do at night you can do during the day), you don't invite people into your rooms at night (no reason, you can do that during the day), you don't have boyfriends overnight, you don't drink excessively (or at all if you're under 21), you don't do drugs, and you don't associate with people who do. As for piercings and tattoos, I personally don't have anything against them and I've seen nurses and counselors who are tatted up and I have no reason to think they're unprofessional. However, while that is changing, my parents' point of view was that if I couldn't do it in high school, and I would be "too old" to be doing those things after I finished college and got a "respectable job", then there was no reason to do those things in between. I was FURIOUS! I thought that was my only window of time where I "could" do those things and that I would be "so clueless" when I was 24 and "just finding myself". I stuck it out and discovered that many, manypeople get on just fine without doing any of those things. No, people who do aren't evil/bad/less-than, but it's not necessary. And most of the peole I associated with anyway weren't interested in that. if anything, most people in my age group regret tattoos or piercings and are sometimes judgmental of those who have them. it's because of the image they portray. And I got through my early 20s not clubbing and drugging and now I'm not interested in that anymore because I have too much to do and too many responsibilities. That was part of the reason my parents wanted me home during college - to shield me from the things they raised me were wrong. Once I was fully independent, I made my own decisions and most were what they taught me. I *could* have moved out but that meant they wouldn't have paid my tuition, I would have had to bust my butt to pay for an apartment and school would have been slow-going our out of the question as I didn't have the grades for scholarships and couldn't get a loan without a co signer (they refused to let me take out a loan). I honestly think MORE parents should leave their kids at home during college. I imagine more people would actually graduate if that were the case. Or at least, the college should have a parental-notification policy if the kids DO get into trouble on campus because who wants to pay $10s or $1,000s of dollars so their kid can party, get in trouble and then ... the parent don't find out because the child is an adult? Ah well. I even believe that adult or not, if you are dependent on your parents financially, even if you live in a dorm or apartment, you shoudl respect their rules. Yes, spread your wings, but there is such a thing as throwing them out of the nest before they're reaedy
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reader, Ciar  + ♥, writes (5 March 2014):
 Good question. For me it's something I would address on a case by case basis, taking into account the people involved, the circumstances, the issue that raised the question and what I would expect were I the one living in someone else's home and being fully or partially supported by them. It's not enough to do the right thing, but we must be seen to be doing the right thing. Obviously I don't mean make a sweeping announcement every time we've done good, but that our actions should not give anyone cause to question our intentions. Especially not someone kind and generous enough to take us into their home. I know the question you're referring to since I was one of those who answered so I'll use it as an example. If a friend or relative is generous enough to help support me then I would limit my spending to that which is necessary and what I thought reasonable because I would not want that person to be left wondering if I'm taking their generosity for granted. Getting a hair cut is fine because that is part of regular personal maintenance as long as it's not from a fancy salon that charges considerably more, but going for a piercing or a tattoo is extra. I would feel guilty coming home with a piercing I can only afford because someone else is providing me with what I should be providing for myself. Sooooo, I would not be too chuffed with someone I was supporting doing that in my home. Another example: would I allow my adult child to entertain a boyfriend in her room (in my home)? Absolutely not, but nor would I allow a friend or another relative to do it and I wouldn't do it in someone else's home. That's my two cents.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 March 2014): "I think the MORE you tell your children :" you can't do this or that - the MORE they want to do it." I agree with this comment from Honeypie. When I was 13 to 16, i was adamant on getting lots of piercings. My parents would only let me get ones on my ears done as they could be hidden by my hair but they did let me get my nose done. When i was nearly 16, i said that as soon as i turned it (i wouldn't need parental consent), i would get everything done that i wanted (lip, tongue etc) but i never did. Only last year (i'm now 21) did i get my lip done.
I think the best thing to do regarding piercings (if you don't have to legally give consent) is just let them get on with it, just advise they go to a reputable place and not a cheap dodgy place. More extreme measures like stretching and skin implants I'd probably advise against, as they're a lot more permanent,but all other piercings are just generally a small hole, and the jewellery is easily removed and the hole is barely visible :) You are only young once, and probably won't be able to do this sort of thing when you're in proper full time work, so just let them make the most of being young and free (assumig they're just in collage, uni or casual part time work) ^^
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reader, like I see it +, writes (5 March 2014):
 Forgot to add - I also think opinions on this will depend on whether you view "no tattoos/piercings while in my house" as a DRESS code or a code of CONDUCT.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (5 March 2014):
 I keep thinking about this.
IF you as a parent do your job properly, then by the time your "child" is legally an adult you will have imparted on them your lifestyle choices, rules and expectations.
that's all we can do as parents... we Raise our children to the best of our ability... what they do as adults is their choice....
HOUSE rules are just that for the HOUSE... I do not think after counseling and guidance we as parents should still parent their bodies.
IF, as the parent of an adult you feel the need to control what they do with their own bodies, that's indicative of your poor parenting or your inability to let go.
WE give our kids two things
roots and wings
guess which is harder for us to give them? right... it's WAY harder for parents to "let go and let god" unless they KNOW in their hearts they have parented well and trust their skills as a parent... letting your children fall on their faces is the hardest thing we can do as parents... we want to protect them and save them... we can't. letting them fall and make their own mistakes is part of letting them grow.
HOUSE rules should apply to the house.... guests, food, hours in and out, rent... use of the facilities (laundry) etc....
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reader, like I see it +, writes (5 March 2014):
I think part of the problem is that most over-18s living rent free at home have not yet experienced living on their own and therefore don't realize what an amazing gift they're being given. Because they've had it for so long, it feels more like an entitlement than a privilege. It's easy to feel restricted when their age has changed to "legal adult" and nothing else has. The change where their parents are now supporting an adult and not a child they're legally OBLIGATED to support goes unnoticed, by the young adult at least.
When they move out and start paying rent and bills, with bigger headaches than which body part to put ink on or a hole in and how their families will react, I think most young people start to realize how good they had it. I definitely did. In hindsight I wish I'd stayed at my "restrictive" parental home longer and put more money in savings while I was there. I know many my age or older who have echoed this sentiment - "man, that was the life," etc.
I don't know what rent costs on average in other people's corners of the world, but $800/mo plus food seems like a pretty sweet "salary" for leaving a piece of metal out of one's face. That's about as cheap as you could find a tiny studio apartment in the worst neighborhoods here in Southern California :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 March 2014): I think it all depends on your parenting-style.
If your rules are enforced with gestapo-like tactics. You spawn spiteful children. Their life's ambition will be to get even with you, and make your life miserable. They struggle only for the right to breath.
An adult-child living at home, has no more rights than they are willing to pay for. Landlords have people sign leases setting house-rules; and regulating behavior within the confines of their property. Why shouldn't parents?
College dorms are regulated; and evict unruly students.
You even have to get the permission and approval of co-op owners; to move into the wealthiest apartments. They don't want unruly outrageous types to ruin their comfortable, elegant, and established communities. So no one gets to just go nuts and do whatever they please with no regard how it effects others; or with disregard to public opinion. The best place to learn, is starting at home. My way,or the highway.
A working and responsible young-adult contributing financially to the household; is otherwise showing responsibility. The rules are just fine. Just allow them privacy and treat them as adults. That's usually all they ask. They can't wait to get out of your house. They are only there for financial reasons. Not to be your nemesis.
They aren't likely to do a bunch of outrageous body-mutilating piercings, or tattoos all over their bodies; because they know it will hinder their job opportunities. They won't throw wild parties or invite heroin-addicts over for dinner. They know better.
I don't have to hire someone with rings through their noses, sleeve-tattoos, and green hair to sit at the reception desk greeting conservative well-paying customers.
I wouldn't send reps out to other businesses with stretched ear-lobes and neck-tats. What kind of company would they represent? Nothing short of a biker-gang or heavy-metal band.
Surely that would be no company people will want to do business with. It works for tattoo and piecing parlors. They don't pay well. They are usually on grungy back-alleys, and in questionable parts of town. They're not welcome in most neighborhoods.
The high-end parlors charge an arm and a leg; and usually have fancy-smancy spas. They cater to celebrity clientele, and require appointments. All are required by the health department to be clean; but that's just the risk you take.
You could get infected with contagious hepatitis, so you have a right to say no, if you don't want your 16-yearold covered with body-art. Or if you feel your adult-child might expose your health. They drink from your milk cartons and handle food in your refrigerator. You're darned right if you have something to say; if they are exposing themselves to these places.
Most kids living at home can't afford these places. They end up getting low-rate art scribbled all over their bodies for eternity. They will look-back with regret. So don't be too quick to say no. Sometimes they are only testing you.
They're painful. There could also be scarring.
Ordinary kids don't usually change their appearance in drastic ways. They aren't the type this lifestyle appeals to. That doesn't mean they don't like bling and flash. They may want some tattoos for a fashion-statement. They will usually stay within tasteful limits; because they have already proven themselves responsible enough to hold down a job, and pay their own bills. They are home only temporarily, usually preparing to move-out on their own.
Some are even more responsible. They return home, because they know their parents need the help.
That's a sign you've done a good job.
Enforcing house-rules keeps them civil; and minimizes aggressiveness. They learn to live peacefully with others. Chaotic households literally fall completely apart. if they are breaking the law or damaging anything, what rules are they breaking?
Some people just like being bossy. Imposing their values without question or opposition. Don't worry, they won't be around long. They will have little to do with you at all.
You can't rule them like brainless morons. Strict-parenting is borderline bullying. It works when they're small; because you can get away with it. Once they grow up; they'll become resentful, resistant, and retaliatory. That's your just-reward for being too strict. You'll have to kick them out. They become estranged. Who really wants or needs that?
A firm-hand, a watchful eye, and ultimatums with consequences; followed by positive reinforcement and consistency yields pretty good results. Setting a positive example usually gets the point across more effectively.
You have to practice what you preach, or it will blow up in your dictatorial face. Just stressing it's your house is not enough. Why be a hypocrite about it? Smoking pot, drinking like a drunken-sot, smoking like a chimney, and yelling all the time.
Suddenly you got rules?
It is toughest on overly-restrictive parents who ruthlessly dictate to the point of stifling any form of personal expression. It isn't being permissive to compromise or yield just to allow for some self-expression. We all go through that phase.
Parents who shove religion or old-fashioned traditions down their kids throats; making the Holy One look like a monster that will send everyone to hell for merely breathing the wrong way. They deserve a push-back; because they are bordering on fanatic. You can rule them as long as they are children, once they become too opinionated; it's time to push them out of the nest. Let them reek havoc under the roof where they pay rent. Until the landlord evicts them!
Don't go using your house-rules when in their homes. They can boot your bullying self-righteous-ass out the door. You will always be their mom and dad. Your house-rules stop at "your" door. You're only a guest in "their" house or apartment.
Parents who are teaching their kids to respect house-rules;
also teach their kids how to maintain a healthy living environment. Tranquil, clean, and peaceful. It is where you live. If you grew up in a barn with barnyard animals; they probably wouldn't need to lay down any rules.
The more responsible the child, the less need to impose restrictions. Let them color their hair, get a small tattoo in a place that can be covered, or a small inconspicuous piercing. If they're old enough, they'll get it anyway. As long as it's not publicly offensive, deal with it. Once they're in college, the sky is the limit. Why frustrate yourself? They still must behave once they're home, of course.
You don't have to let them move back in if they go too crazy. If they're good kids, that isn't a problem. They are old enough to live with the consequences of their decisions when out on their own. Respect for their parent's home is deep-rooted; and offending you is not their intention.
House-rules still apply while they're guests in your home.
You set rules in your home in order to maintain order, and keep it comfortable to live in. You go as far as you want to. It's your house. YOU HAVE PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP! They're the kids, and you're the ruling authority. You pay the bills, rent/mortgage,utilities, and buy the food. They want to do outlandish stuff, do in when they move out.
When you let freeloading adult children takeover, it's because you're gutless and weak. Or just plain stupid. Who are they to run your house they way the want to? Seriously?!
We have police and soldiers to maintain order in our society. You have a right to police your home to any degree within reasonable limits.
Parents who have gone the way of psychological and physical abuse, that is breaking the law. There is no justification for it. Parents like that are psychotic, and shouldn't have children to begin with.
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reader, Daisy_Daisy +, writes (5 March 2014):
 Good question Cindy.
Honeypie writes: "I think the MORE you tell your children :" you can't do this or that - the MORE they want to do it." Because it becomes about rebelling for the wrong reasons, not to find themselves and grow as an individual."
I agree. I had quite strict parents growing up, very against smoking, drinking and piercings so guess what I did? I smoked, drank and had a couple of extra ear piercings. All my siblings did the same (well, only one brother got piercings).
I moved out just shy of my 18th birthday to go to University at the other end of the UK. Until that day, I followed their rules including attending Mass each and every Sunday (which I loathed), and respected their curfew.
On the other hand, they were strict/firm about manners and education, but that helped produce a polite and educated woman (if I do say so myself).
Today I read something in the news about an 18 yr old girl in the USA who is suing her parents for her universtity fees. She left the family home because the rules were too strict for her, and 'emancipated' herself. Sad and complex story.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-jersey-student-rachel-canning-sues-parents-for-refusing-to-pay-for-her-college-education-9168520.html
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reader, CindyCares +, writes (5 March 2014):
CindyCares is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks to the respondents so far, and no no, Honeypie, I have nothing against platinum blonde !,- ( how could I, being the proud wearer of a flashy , NOT natural red hair mane :) - or as for that not even against ( tasteful) tattoos, or fake boobs, I was just tryng to come up with examples of things that the average parent could / perhaps would find fault with.
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (5 March 2014):
 I agree, great question!
(except the trashy platinum part.. my middle daughter and I are both natural platinum blonds and I don't consider us trashy because of our hair color.. LOL) THAT aside...
I agree with SVC. If they are over 18 all you can really do as a parent (and hopefully you have done it since birth) is TEACH your child to think for her/himself and rethink ideas that have a "permanent solution", such as piercings, tattoos and other body modifications.
I have 3 daughters, so I know there will be times they will want to do things I rather they don't. Such as... my 13 year old want to dye her hair purple. I'm inclined to let her. However, SHE will pay for it and if she HATES it, she will have to pay to have her hair re-dyed back to her natural color.Or suck it up til it grows put.
If they at 18 wants fake boobs, I would sit them down and figure out the root of WHY. I wouldn't tell them NO you can't have fake boobies. I would advocate for them NOT to get them until they know exactly why.
If they want a tattoo, piercing, metal studs in their forehead - I would sit them down and talk it though,but without coming across as "you have to do as I tell you". I have a tattoo - I wanted one since I was 16 and it took me a good 6 years to find the "right" one and then alter it so it was "mine". I had 4 piercings in one ear - 2 below, 2 top - the top ones I took out when I hit 30.
I think the MORE you tell your children :" you can't do this or that - the MORE they want to do it." Because it becomes about rebelling for the wrong reasons, not to find themselves and grow as an individual.
Everything in life can be a good learning experience - or teaching experience for both parents and children.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (5 March 2014):
To the anonymous male poster, Does the fact that the “child” has what you perceive as a sense of entitlement and an air or superiority (I didn’t sense that as much as frustration with her parents’ lifestyle choices not matching her desires) matter in WHY the child wants to do it or whether or not they should be permitted?
You make it sound like if the “child” offered a compelling argument or mitigating circumstances you would be more inclined to “approve” of said action. How does that make the parent making the choice to “permit” the adult to take the action right and the petulant child incorrect?
In other words, are you saying that if a child is overly grateful and paying rent they have more right than a child who feels entitled and is living rent free? WHY is that?
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 March 2014): Regarding the posting to which you refer, I was personally put off by the poster's sense of entitlement and air of superiority toward her mother's conservative viewpoint. She did not offer any compelling arguments or mitigating circumstances (i. e., contributions to the household, outstanding academic performance) to support her position and came across as a whiny, petulant child.The difference between such fashion trends as hairstyles or clothes and such affectations as tattoos or piercings is that while hair and clothing styles change with age and the times, tattoos or piercings are permanent and can only become ugly and ridiculous over decades. If I were a parent then I would want to encourage my young adult kids to express themselves while giving them the benefit of my life experience, meaning I would draw the line at any permanent visible alterations that they could possibly regret as future 40-year-olds whose only employment options would be as pizza deliverers. But if my young adult son or daughter still living under my roof had proven him/herself to be a responsible person whom I could trust implicitly and wanted a tattoo or piercing, I would have to reluctantly allow him/her the freedom to make his/her own choices and therefore learn from his/her own potential mistakes.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (5 March 2014):
WOW! GREAT question.....
IF an adult child lives in a parents home (either through the grace of the parents or by paying rent) and they abide by the HOUSE rules, I do think that the parents need to back off and let the "child" explore their individuality ONCE they are legally old enough to make the decision without parental approval or permission.
Permanent Body Modifications such as tattoos I would caution my child to keep it covered by business clothing (no neck, face or hand tattoos). As for piercings... those can be fixed later on and my very wise BFF told her then 18 yr old child YOU may DO IT, but be aware that I will NOT pay for the plastic surgery to fix it when you are done with it. And she did not, and the now 30 something young lady did pay for her own plastic surgery to fix her ears after she was done wearing giant holes in them for 5 years.
IF a "child" lives in my home and follows all the home rules and contributes meaningfully to the home (either with rent or chores) then I think the parents need to "look the other way" and let the kid figure it out for themselves.
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