A
male
age
36-40,
*8Reality217
writes:How do I remove my hatred and bitterness towards women for them expecting guys to make the first move? Doing the approaching and asking out, initiating/escalating, taking the lead? I hate this one sided dynamic with a huge passion, even though I am a straight heterosexual male. I feel I could have been in a romantic sexual relationship a long time ago if I was a girl. Unfortunately I'm a guy in his late 20's who has never had a girlfriend before and obviously still a virgin,
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male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (21 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAlright I apologize to women here, even if being the initiator is the natural order of things, as in its what the man was meant to do, I just wish that ability came natural and instinctive for me, because it seems most guys are born knowing how to get a girlfriend
A
male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (13 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI also never understood why lack of experience turns women off more than the other way around, recently asked a question similar to that today
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 September 2014): OP, I understand you feel unmotivated due to your past, however as you know - Unmotivated people don't get anywhere. You need to force yourself to get out there and make the first move, start a conversation, and ask someone out on a date. Don't get me wrong, you don't have to, but you're clearly upset that you can't get women... So in your case, yes you have to. Or, continue to your 30s still just as lonely and a virgin. And like we said before. Yes you can hate yourself for being different, a later starter, not trying earlier etc. But where will that get you? Nowhere. If you don't take action now, 1 year later, 5 years later etc. you will STILL be just as bitter, different, and an even later starter.Women are NOT attracted to men who have no experience. If you're going to ask me if there's logic behind it, it doesn't matter because it's a fact. All that matters is the facts. If you don't initiate now, women will be even less attracted to you in the future because you'd be a 30-year-old with no experience. No thank you!
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (13 September 2014):
 Depressed ?. That's a start . Part of what you feel may come straight out from your depressive state. Depression is a bad beast, but not incurable or unmanageable. . It can heal. I'd try and start tackling depression ( and its inherent, connected feelings of self disvaluation , hopelessness, disempowerment, etc. ) , THEN start thinking about the chicks, whether loving them or hating them :).
As for having " lost time " and made mistakes- yes, it's possible. Maybe you did. But you can't ever, ever go back and fix the past, the past stays the same. What you can fix is the here and now, ( the present ) in order that in the future you do not have to make the same choices, and repeat the same mistakes. You can either do that - or you can keep up the mental wanking so that you have a ( weak ) excuse in your shitty past for ALSO having a shitty present and a shitty future.
It's up to you.
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A
male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (13 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWhen I say being the initiator, I'm referring to making the first move, approaching someone for the first time and starting a conversation, asking out on a date, but ya often times I feel unmotivated to take action because I'm too damn depressed and angry, frustrated, regretful for not taking more action earlier and not having experienced dating/relationships, sex, around the age most people do, I hate being different, hate being a late starter
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (13 September 2014):
This will sound cruel, but some times you've got to be cruel to be kind ( or helpful ). Perhaps it's logic that's cruel.
You've got Asperger's Syndrome. For you, it does not really matter if the woman initiates or not.
( Btw, that women are terminally adverse to take the initiative , and that almost no woman does it, is debatable .. at least, that's not the impression you'd get seeing the usual M.O. of your connationals studying here : they look pretty assertive to me ! - , but , never mind. )Even if women became much more assertive and initiated much more often, - you would not know it, since your condition makes it next to impossible for you to decode even the obvious signals.
Because, define " being the initiator " : unless you mean grabbing you firmly by your buttcheecks, and sticking their tongue down your throat , out of the blue - which is not "initiating ", it's sexual assault , for both sexes :)-, women would initiate ( as a matter of fact , they do it already !, who more ,who less ) through a series of body and behavioural cues that you would probably not be able to get. They could even straight out ask you on a date, or give you an appointment at Lovers' Lane- and you'd still would not know if they want to go out as friends , or what else.
For you, it does not change much, because if you meet a bold one who " initiates " ( again, unless by initiating you mean starting rubbing your private parts in public, which is not going to happen unless she is blind drunk ) you will not know that she is initiating.
Now, let's take this negative and turn it into a positive.
So many worries and thoughts and decoding effort less. No " I wonder what she wants ", you accept that you have no idea whatsoever what she wants.
So you only have ONE, simple, laser-beam straight course of action : you go for what you want.
You try . Any girl you like, you start things- ask her number, ask her out, etc. You do not worry if she may like you or not, it's enough that you like HER. If you do, you ask, plain and simple.
Sure, you'll get a lot of "no" this way : so ? it's a game of numbers, even players get a lot of rejections. Everybody meets rejections . Some dude more than others. Don't take it personally, take it as a practice to get a thicker skin in the process , and keep trying. Eventually you'll meet your match.
It's a bit like shopping for trousers , let's say. You don't worry if the trousers will like you or will give you signals, you just try on what you like and try again, and again, until you find a pair which fits.
Now you are going to tell me : hey, are you dumb or what ?! I just told you - or implied - that I CAN'T approach women ! because I am ... ( socially awkward , reclusive, painfully shy , insecure, ... fill the blank ).
Right. Then, THAT is what needs to change , or improve as much as it's possible. These ARE things that can be changed with the proper tools and therapies and mental attitudes . And time and patience , of course. You've got your work cut out for you;it may be an interesting project.
Sorry, if there's someone who needs to change it's you, not the women . ( As we said, even the women changed , you'd not benefit from that ).
P.S. : I am normally not a big fan of dating sites and such, but , in your case, I may be. You want women to initiate ? Women who have profiles on dating sites are doing exactly that : making the first move, putting themselves out there, declaring their readiness and availability as long as you have at least some of the qualities they seek. If you meet at least partially their requirements , all you have got to do is answer- they took the first step for you. What have you got to lose ? If they turn you down- so be it, they can't take on all the guys who answered, there are other guys who got rejected too. It's a more impersonal, generic rejection, it cuts much less. And since nobody will know or comment anyway that you have been turned down, - there is not even a social shame factor.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 September 2014): Women are attracted to confidence. Whether there's scientific logic behind it or not... Who cares! Point is, that's what most women like and you whining pathetically about it isn't going to change that fact. Yes life isn't fair. So either adapt and act, or continue a bitter life. All is up to you.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 September 2014): YouWish took the words right out of my mouth. Spending your time meaninglessly defending yourself down there is pretty pathetic. If everyone's telling you the same thing, take the advice and act on it. We appreciate the entertainment, but I'm sure you don't intend to be a laughingstock. You're not getting any younger, and you'll be single and a virgin forever if you're all talk and nothing else.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (12 September 2014):
 Hey! Guess what?! Women have testosterone as well, in case you failed Biology.
Now I'm going to challenge you:
Are you here to get advice and either act on it or employ another method of finding a partner, or are you merely here to have us serve as an audience for your pity party.
I'm throwing the gauntlet down. You go talk to a woman this weekend with romantic intent. Enough talk...talk without action is for the weak when all is said and done. All this "hate and bitter" talk is out of fear, so are you a man of action, or are you all talk?
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (12 September 2014):
To quote Mark D. White, Ph.D. (philosophy)
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/maybe-its-just-me/201310/does-everyone-find-confidence-attractive
" It’s an awareness of who you are, regardless of how you compare or measure up to others. It shows people that you’re comfortable with yourself, which grants you a certain poise, charm, or assertiveness. It also implies that you don’t need to compete with anyone or belittle anyone else to lift yourself up; as a result, confident people are more willing to praise others because they aren't worried about making themselves look worse. All of this clearly accounts for the general attractiveness of confidence, if for no other reason than its general positivity."
I think that pretty much sums it up.
And it's not JUST women who are attracted to confidence in others, many men are too.
It's human nature.Partly, survival instincts. Someone who is confident in themselves and their abilities would without doubt make a better hunter/ protector/ partner, then one who constantly doubting themselves.
Survival of the "fittest" isn't dead on when it comes to humans. Often a deciding factor could be innovation and intelligence over brute strength.
That doesn't mean you have to ALWAYS be 100% confident in your choices or actions, but be willing to TRY things, even if they are new and unfamiliar, to not rely on OTHERS to do all the work.
Don't overthink life, LIVE it. Interact with people (gender is irrelevant), the more you practise social situations the better you get.
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A
male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (12 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSo testosterone is the hormonal excuse for being the initiator? Ya i guess thats part of life not being fair in which guys have to make the first move
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (12 September 2014):
Men don't "enforce" anything by being the initiator. They just know what they want and have the testosterone to go after it. That's like asking why dogs will chase cars or mailmen...because they want to!
Confidence is attractive to everyone, both in a platonic and romantic setting. We follow confident leaders, seek out confident friends, we cultivate it in ourselves because it makes us better people.
And the best thing about confidence is...it's attainable! Say you're a musician with talent...confidence is built by knowledge, discipline, and skill. It takes time to build. Say you're a race car driver...win's build confidence only after skill, mentorship, and time (and survival of crashes!) builds it.
Focus on what you're good at. Then be outgoing or at LEAST have the courage to be introverted, yet willing to let someone into your life. Like I said earlier, life isn't fair, and life is too damn short to fret about what you don't have, and it's especially too damn short to compare yourself to others.
Get rid of the chip on your shoulder. You won't go anywhere near to square one without that.
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A
male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (12 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionBut overall why is confidence so damn attractive to women? is there any logic behind it?
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A
male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (10 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionwell glad to hear that some women out there make the first move, I knew and I believed already that some women do before I posted this question, but the harsh reality is that those type of women are very extremely hardcore rare, and the deep meaning behind this question is because, since the overwhelming vast majority of women are stubbornly old-fashioned, passive and expect men to be the initiators, it feels to me like most women are enforcing this status-quo, social-norm to remain this way, and yes I do kinda hate the men who enforce this by keeping it this way by doing being the initiator.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (8 September 2014):
Geeze. You're in a Catch-22, aren't you?? You don't want to be alone, yet you hate women and are bitter towards them? Hating them or being bitter towards them is your condition. You deal with it by choosing not to hate women or be bitter towards them. You make that decision every day, otherwise you're remain alone.
No matter how much the "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" mentality has been packaged and repackaged to sell books or TV shows or whatever, we aren't aliens. We're both human. We both have desires and prefer to be with someone we love. Who cares what society says about who asks whom out? Everyone has asked and been rejected before.
If I had waited until the guy who was to become my husband asked me out, I'd still be waiting. He was shy and nervous as hell, but he was also funny and we started out as friends. I made the first move, and who the hell cares if it would have been seen as anything negative.
Let me put it in simpler terms - you have the need. You make it happen. The hungry person is the one who makes dinner or goes shopping or goes to a restaurant or in the older days, went hunting, gathering, or farming. The unemployed person goes out to look for the job and suffers through the interviews and the hoops that the job seeker has to go through. The lonely person goes out looking for a partner. In none of these scenarios do the people in the examples expect their needs to come to them.
Life isn't fair. Some people have Aspergers, some are genetically predispositioned to obesity. Others are born deformed and some have mental deficiencies. You play with the cards you are dealt, and you don't give up and start hating women just because you have struck out in the past. Study and hone your people skills if they are deficient, and don't give up and get bitter.
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A
male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (8 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionEven if women drop hints to let men know they are interested, I don't know and can't tell what they are specifically, I am either not noticing them or I don't get them at all, but yes I am aware of the fact women do not owe me anything, I can accept that, I am not entitled to anything from them,
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (8 September 2014): That's just how society is. It's ok to disagree and dislike the expectation for guys to make the first move, however you need to accept that's just how things are. If you don't then you'll be single and bitter forever. Women are attracted to confidence and making the first move displays confidence. You clearly lack confidence, therefore women aren't attracted to you, yet you're blaming women for not coming to you. This has nothing to do with women, rather you need to work on yourself. Good luck!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (8 September 2014): "Well its just I feel social awkwardness or being socially inept hurts a guys chances more than a girls chances of getting a date or relationship"Can you stop dismissing how some women also share your same exact situation? Can you also stop making it seems like women have no standards and they date and have sex with whatever man who propositions them? Can you also stop making it seem as though men have no standards and they'll date any breathing creature with a vagina? Enough of the "woe is me I can't get a girlfriend" pity fest. It's not going to land you any dates or bring you closer to satiating your sex drive. You're feeling bitter towards women because you think they have an easier time getting into romantic relationships? That's it? Forget the alarming rate of violence against women. Forget how the government tries to control what women can do with their bodies. The belief that women can get laid earlier than men is the most unfair/cruel thing that can happen in the eyes of a late-twenty-year-old. That's how ridiculous you're coming off right now. I can believe that women probably get asked out more than men since most societies still expect men to take the initiative. But, that doesn't mean every woman who gets asked out says yes. Some women do expect men to do all the pursuing, but it's not like they don't put any effort into letting the guy know they're interested. Most women drop hints, prompting men to ask them out with confidence. Sometimes, not. It sees to me you think women are just lying around, doing nothing but being pretty, and waiting for men to line up at their doorsteps. You might think, "Women have it so easy. There will always be men asking them out. Women can say yes or no on a whim as if they're shopping for shoes." That could be the case for some women. Definitely not all. In cases where this does apply, how is it a woman's fault if men continuously ask her out? Why are you directing your hate towards women when it's other men who are initiating the relationships? Of course, I don't want you to hate men. I don't want you to hate any sex or any group of people for that matter. Just acknowledge how ridiculous you sound with your bitterness.You say you want to respect women. Then open your eyes and realize that women don't owe you shit. They can expect whatever they want. There might be or might not be someone to meet their expectations. That's out of your control. Realize that you need to build on your character and your social skills.
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A
male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (7 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAnd my gut feeling tells me there are more male late bloomers than female late bloomers in the world of dating and relationships, sex, as in people 25+ years of age who are still a virgin and never been in a bf/gf relationship before
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A
male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (7 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell its just I feel social awkwardness or being socially inept hurts a guys chances more than a girls chances of getting a date or relationship, I don't enjoy feeling bitterness or hatred towards women, no not at all, I want to respect them, its just I would rather have loved and lost than to never have loved at all
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A
female
reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (7 September 2014):
Well, you could start out with STOP blaming women for you not having found someone. HATING WOMEN for a standard that have been created by men? It's not really fair, is it?
I'm sorry buddy, you do NOT get issued a girl-friend or fuck buddy on your 18th birthday.
Since you also have to deal with Aspergers do you see a therapist or counselor ? Or can you talk to your mom/dad about these things? I think you need to talk this out with someone you can listen to and trust.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (7 September 2014): Hm. I have this same problem with sexist men.
Not all girls are the same. There's a rare type of girl that's bolder than others, and doesn't mind who makes the first move. So maybe you can find that girl.
That's the shortest, most clear answer I have.
Good luck!
:)
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (7 September 2014): Have you ever considered online dating? I recommend it for people who find it hard to approach the opposite sex.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (7 September 2014): You express bitterness towards an old fashion courting system. Your hate for women is misplaced. Also, you said in your update that you were not interested in the women who attended those meetings. Don't hate women for not approaching you when you yourself have overlooked other women, who may also be struggling to find a romantic partner just like you. There will be women who are not attracted to you, but you will pursue them. There will be women who might find you atrractive, but you pass them by. Being female doesn't mean us women have men lining up at our doors ready to shower us with gifts, compliments, and intimacy at the drop of a hat. We also have to consider if a man is only dating us for sex. Now, conventionally good looking people might have it easy when it comes to finding romance. This is without regards to sex. All I can advise you to do is realize that no one owes you anything. Women don't automatically have it easy in the dating world. Women may receive more solicitation and sexual proposals from men (specifically on the Internet where we have no idea how these men are in real life), but sex isn't always what women seek. If sex is the only thing you seek and envy women for it, well, then...that's another problem.
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A
male
reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (6 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionya, well having Asperger Syndrome does not help at all either, although I don't want to feel it is hopeless because of having Asperger Syndrome, and I have attended my share of Asperger meet-ups, but sadly they are male-dominated, and the women I have met there, sadly I was never attracted to.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (6 September 2014): It's is not women's fault that this set up exists. It's is societies and you need to realises that both women and men are victims of it . Just as you have not yet experienced sex it a deep relationship, many many women are left sitting around because of that and other stereotypes that exist that hurt women. For example the incredibly ridiculous beauty standards that mean unless a women is basically stunning nowadays she is practically ignored in many instances
Please consider the many other ways women's have it hard like the fact that even if they do happen to have a perfect body and they fulfil the role expect of them by society ( having children) they will likely lose it to scars and droops no matter how hard they exercise whilst their husbands who's own ageing will be considered ' handsome and distinguished continues checking out and lusting after young perfect porn babes
Women can not women , they are used up and spat out by society . It's important that you consider the other side to this equation and realise that one day you will meet a precious women and you Virgin days will be over . Treat her differently to how society says it's ok to and don't let hate fill your heart and she will see that because of the fact you waited and because of the fact you kept an open heart ... You are a greater treasure than any other man around
Good luck
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A
female
reader, TasteofIndia +, writes (6 September 2014):
 Hey buddy,
Imagine how women feel! If we make the first move, then we're "desperate" or "aggressive", and must have ulterior motives.
Double standards are tough. And in this case, both side get the short end of the stick (that's one short stick!). Men are pursuers, women are choosers. You seem shy, which means that you're constantly in waiting - and perhaps, while you are interested, other potential suitors are swooping up your women. On the other hand, imagine if you are a woman, never getting 'chosen'. Or, interested in someone, but never speak up out of fear that it's not socially acceptable.
You at least can understand, how nerve-wracking it is to make the first move. Imagine if you're a woman and not "expected" to, and the usual repercussion of making one, is negative. When one thinks of an "aggressive woman", the connotations are usually very poor. Which is a shame, a real, real shame.
This seems so primitive, and I'd like to think that times are changing - and they are, but very slowly.
Your problem is not with women, but with a bigger, societal issue. In fact, you are a feminist - if only both sides could be equal in a relationship, both having the opportunity to pursue without judgment, your problem would be solved.
Good luck!
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