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age
41-50,
anonymous
writes: I'm in shock and lost for words right now. My boyfriend/fiance of about 6 years off and on finally told me last night that the reason he has been so hesitant on marrying me is because he has worked his whole life on his business, and if he ever got divorced his wife or me or whoever would get half of his million dollar business or he would have to sell his business. Am I not hearing this correctly? Or is he telling me that money and his business is more important than marrying the person he supposedly "loves"? All these years I thought something was wrong with me. Do other people do this to someone they love? He acted like if we got married we wouldn't break up, but when i asked why he would say such a thing about getting divorced he said cuz i never let him "win". I told him a relationship isn't about winning, and I've never thought i was "winning." he said he agreed, but then why would he still say he wants to "win"? is that just an excuse for him not wanting to marry me. He said it would be a big risk to marry me, and that i wouldn't be taking a risk. How is any of this fair to me? i don't know what to do, i think i need to leave cuz that was the most painful thing to hear last night. Any insight? why is he doing this? can people truly be this greedy?
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (11 March 2011):
 Actors and billionaires can afford a divorce, but more importantly can afford a good lawyer.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questioneveryone has helped a lot. i think i do value marriage very highly, but not over love. i guess it just sucks that the person i love doesn't want to marry me. it is hard to accept. but after reading what you all have to say, i think i know deep down that he won't ever marry me. maybe if he didn't have a business, he would, but the reality is he does have a business. and i, coming from christian core beliefs and values, would not want to raise a family with him if we aren't married. i just don't think i could do it, so i guess i do value marriage over love. to me, if you love someone, you don't talk about divorce before you are even married. he said we would never break up. but, i really do think that he is staying with me only because he has been with me so long and he wouldn't want to hurt his ego. and he probably refuses to sign a prenup because he would feel guilty, or because that would actually mean he would be marrying me. so, i'm done with this relationship. i'm moving on to someone who wants to marry me, and who puts a high esteem on marriage. who is actually willing to marry me because it WILL make him happy, and because he wants to make me happy. i don't think that is too much to ask for. question again, though, how do actors and billionaires get married if they have much to lose too? if i made more than my boyfriend would he then want to marry me??? i never once thought that him not wanting to marry me would have to do with finances, call me crazy, but it never even crossed my mind. obviously it has crossed his mind since day one. or, since we have been off and on, he probably can't be sure that i will stay with him forever. i guess i am a big risk, and hopefully someday somebody will be willing to take that risk.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionoh and I'm NOT sleeping with him!!! he knows my christian values, and we have stopped doing that a long time ago!!!
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionoh and I'm NOT sleeping with him!!! he knows my christian values, and we have stopped doing that a long time ago!!!
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 March 2011): "Do other people do this to someone they love?"They do if they put other things above their partner and family. It's not a good formula for happiness. We can never know or predict what will happen we can only take a chance.He has already put you through a lot by asking you to marry him, getting engaged, living with you and obviously not intending to actually get married. That is deceptive and self centered behavior. You've offered to sign a pre-nup and he has declined that for whatever reason so there is not much else you can do. I feel it's so disrespectful to say you risk less in the relationship. For example if you have children with him you risk your life and your health. I think it's time to start to move on. Think about what is best for you. You've already spent 6 years on this relationship, time is something you can't get back. He has a traumatic past and he probably has a lot of issues because of that which are influencing his feelings about all of this. Maybe it's time to face that it's not going to happen and that that may be for the best. Do complete NC, work on your career and start to get some distance from all of this.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (10 March 2011): Do you value marriage over him?
I ahve never seen a more perceptive line on DC before.
Sign a prenup.
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (10 March 2011):
I've learned that trusting people isn't the same as being stupid. It'd be stupid to marry you if he wants to keep his business, it'd be stupid if he ignored the fact that divorces do happen, and that in the case of a divorce you WOULD be entitled to his assets, as well as he to yours.
Trusting you, loving you, adoring you, has nothing to do with him being smart about this. He's probably learned the same lesson as me, or he knows it from before. You on the other hand want to believe in love forever and harmony and never ending romance, not clouded by realism.
Lots of people want what you want. No one ideally wants love to be "dirtied" by financial issues. Love's supposed to be above and beyond such petty things. But it's not, lets face it, money is important to live a good life. And especially when it's something such as his business, that he feels strongly about.
You could easily flip around what you wrote, and say that isn't love supposed to be better than marrying someone? If you love someone, why can't you be happy living with them without marriage?
You and him simply have a bit of different values. He values his business over marriage. That does not mean he values his business over YOU. He values it over marriage. Do you value marriage over him? Don't be ashamed or think Im attacking you, to many marriage IS more important. And it seems that way for you as well, being married is more important to you than being in a relationship with your partner. If it's not wrong for you to feel that way, then it's not wrong for him to feel the way he does either.
Try to not be so hurt by this. It's not a rejection of you, it's not about him not loving you. It's sad that he wont marry you out of fear of loosing his business, but that fear of his IS realistic. It's not crazy, or insensitive, it's him being smart and taking care of his interests. It hurts you because it stands in the way of what YOU want: marriage. It does not stand in the way of having a good relationship.
You and him should talk this through. Ask him if he didn't have his business, would he have married you? What does marriage mean to him? Does he value it? And then you can talk about pre nuptials. A pre nuptial that will say that he gets to keep his business for example. It could be just the thing that calms him down. But even so, remember that if you and him have children together, a court can easily judge over the pre nuptial and force him to sell his business to support you! So his fear of loosing his business is most definitely grounded in good logic and arguments.
Whatever his reasons are, the bottom line is that if you want to get married in life, and he doesn't, then he is not the man for you.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 March 2011): I'm not sure about the USA but prenups were only made to be legally binding a couple of months ago in the UK. Before that a judge could take prenups into account but could also completely ignore them if he wanted.
If they're not binding where you are then I can see your partner's point of view. If they are, he really has no excuse and there are other reasons why he doesn't want to marry you which he's not being honest about. The thing about you never letting him win is a joke to be honest and sounds like someone clutching at straws. Maybe he's not as comitted to this reltionship as much as you are so you really need to talk this through with him. Don't accept any more pathetic excuses.
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female
reader, GeeGee255  +, writes (10 March 2011):
 Look up some info about guys with abandonment issues
and see if he fits the profile. I know another guy with this problem who also lost their mother early to alcoholism.
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male
reader, Odds +, writes (10 March 2011):
 I wrote my last post before your follow-up posted; in light of the new info, I'll add something here.
One of two things is going on. Either he doesn't want to marry at all, or he does but is conflicted about it.
I think the former is more likely. People who build successful businesses have finely-tuned cost-benefit senses. He has probably realized that marriage has absolutely nothing to offer him. He's getting sex, companionship, and female attention. What else could marriage possibly offer him, particularly in light of the risks he would be taking?
The latter is also possible, if he was raised traditionally and has strong feelings for you. In this scenario, he actually is in love with you, but is not certain you are wife material. He may be against prenups on principle, or he may simply be reluctant to throw away six years of a relaitonship. Here, he is facing numerous conflicts between what he wants, what he believes, and what he knows is true.
The soluton in both cases is the same. Give him a reason to believe that marrying you is a good idea. Find out what he wants and offer it sincerely. Does he want kids? Swear that any children you have or don't have will be a completely mutual decision (that is, give up your female veto power). Does he want a peaceful home? Promise to put off all future arguments until a time that is more convenient to him, and not to deny him sex just because you're angry. Is he worried you will spend too much of his money? Put yourself on a budget first thing tomorrow, then live with it until he believes you will be careful with his money forever.
You get the idea. Want to be a wife, be wife material, and be patient with him. Thank your feminist forebears that marriage is such an unattractive option for men, and do everything you can to counteract it.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI don't make a lot of money at the moment, but I have my Bachelor's and I'm working on getting into chiropractic school at the moment. My family middle-upper class, made a lot of money. he had to take care of himself from a young age because his mom wasn't able to since she was an alcoholic. she died of alcohol/diabetes complications when he was 18. he said that from a young age he has known that if he wants something fixed he's going to have to do it, and he is definitely very smart and ambitious. I feel that he is too career-driven however and it is obviously interfering with his close relationships like me. don't know what to do, guess i just won't bring up marriage again, and hope for the best while i'm still living my life.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm not living with him and I'm not sleeping with him (have lived with him and slept with him in the past when we were engaged but learned quick that he had no real intention of marrying me). Now we live many states away from each other because he says he's working on his business with a guy who lives in another state even though it's not the same state his business resides. Anyway, he also talks all the time about how he wants to marry me and have kids with me, he just doesn't do it. and he knows that there is no way he is going to have kids with me if he isn't married to me first. we only see each other about once every six months, so twice a year. which is nothing. i'm definitely not giving him too much of anything
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female
reader, GeeGee255 +, writes (10 March 2011):
One last thing to consider, is it possible that he doesn't see you as being suitable "wife material" for any reason?
Is there anything in your past that could be holding him back. What about your family? Do you come from an upper middle class background and have a good college education?
Can he easily picture you moving comfortably in "high society" and being an assest to him?
Or maybe he is just of the belief that money should marry money and is hoping to cash in and "trade up" one day.
Whatever is you can't hope to change it or his mind until you know what the real issue is.
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female
reader, GeeGee255 +, writes (10 March 2011):
If the man loved you and was just worried about his money and his buisness he would have proposed but asked you to sign a prenup.
There is something else holding him back. Maybe he cares for you but the obvious message he is giving you here is that there are other things in his life he would rather hold on to then you. Things that are more important to him then you are.
Ask your self where his drive to make more money comes from? That could give you a big hint into his psyche. Maybe someone told him he would never amount to anything when he was younger. Maybe he hopes to live the single rock star lifstyle one day when he has made his fortune. Maybe he just feels like his business is his life and a wife would only be a distraction and an unecessary complication.
He is already living with you and sleeping with you I presum so why get married, maybe that's what he is thinking. So if you want marriage then it is up to you to convince him that there is a really good reason to get married. Like losing you if he doesn't. Does the man want to have children one day or not? If so doesn't he want them to have his name and be legitimate in the eyes of society?
If none of the above work then you need to let him go and move on cause it sounds like it ain't ever gonna happen with this guy. Sorry...
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female
reader, charliesdevil73 +, writes (10 March 2011):
 If he doesn't want to sign a prenuptial but is afraid of divorce and losing his money, I think he may be lying. I'm not saying he would be lying to hurt you, but maybe he's more afraid of commitment. I would discuss this with him and see exactly why he won't marry you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 March 2011): I don't think it would be a good idea to marry him, or to have a family with him, but if you want to then go ahead and make a financial statement/prenup of what will happen to resources if you two were to divorce. That is if he really does want that, whic is yet to be seen, because 6 years is a long time to be engaged, far too long.
I think he is making a statement here about what is more important to him, and it isn't you or your relationship. He is also telling you that he doesn't really like your personality. So you two have some major problems maybe.
Both parties take a risk in a marriage, emotional and possibly financial and in many other ways.
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male
reader, Odds +, writes (10 March 2011):
Well, given that 50% of marriages end in divorce, 70% are filed by women, and women get the kids and the assets disturbingly often... can you blame him for his apprehension? It's an entirely reasonable way of thinking. No one hits harder than a person who used to love you.
As for winning - maybe you see it as normal, but it's likely he feels that many of your interactions are combative or competitive. No man wants to come home to a wife he has to argue with or manage, he wants to come home to peace and companionship. If you've been "off and on," you've probably argued quite a bit, and he may have some idea of how you handle breakups.
No reason to get married, anyway. You can live together, love each other, and have kids without marriage. That, or get a prenup, or just accept that you have different goals in life. Warning before you move on, though - a large and growing chunk of guys think the same way he does, for the reasons I've mentioned. Choose carefully.
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female
reader, OhGetReal +, writes (9 March 2011):
 I think he said it very poorly in a hurtful way, so I understand how you are feeling, but I don't think he really wants to lose you, I think he wants you to reassure him.If you are not in it for the money, then ask him about signing a prenup, and get a good lawyer that can make it stick, and make it fair to you. You after all deserve some of that as you are his partner in life and you probably have performed "services" that help him in life that you don't get paid for, besides that's the deal, you make a contract to marry for life and if he breaches the contract he should pay. If he doesn't want to play fair, then yes he's a dick and I would cut your losses and leave.Hope you don't have kids with him.
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questioni said last night that if he was that worried i would sign a prenup and he said he didn't want to do that. so what's going to give? anyone else gone through this?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (9 March 2011): " Or is he telling me that money and his business is more important than marrying the person he supposedly "loves"?"Put the shoe on the other foot.If you want to live by what you preach, sign a prenuptial. Show him that marrying the person you love is more important than his money or business.No?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 March 2011): Sorry but I'd say your partner is actually being very logical and I'd have to agree with what he's saying. If he loves you and is a good partner then why does it matter if you're married or not?If you're looking for blind romance then you're obviously not with the right person.
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male
reader, Illithid +, writes (9 March 2011):
 He doesn't expect to divorce, but he knows it may happen some day, and if it does, men get screwed in American divorce courts. Even if it's a small chance, he knows he could lose everything he's worked for. He's particularly worried because you always win, never let him have the last word, so if you decide you hate him and want to hurt him some day, he doesn't know that you'l be fair in the settlement then either. It's not that he doesn't love you. He just knows what happens when a strong willed woman wants a divorce: men pay.
If you still love him and want to marry him, suggest a prenuptual contract, so all he'll be risking is his heart, not his business.
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (9 March 2011):
 I can imagine very well that you did not like what he said,- this is not exactly what a loving gf wants to hear - but I don't think he is such a monster of greediness and selfishness. One can be in love AND practically minded. He has worked hard all his life to get to where he is financially and he does not want to risk it in case what now is a manageable, small difference in personalities may get worse in time. You can't see this happening now... and , at the time, almost none of the millions of divorced people could see it happening in their future.
I am totally ignorant about this subject, but, aren't prenuptials supposed to take care of precisely this problem? Couldn't you work out some legal arrangement that's fair to both ?
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male
reader, Jmtmj  +, writes (9 March 2011):
 Yes, people can be this greedy... which certainly would explain why he's so hesitant. He's worked on his business for his entire life, its clearly important to him and doing this to somebody he loves is not the issue. Nobody goes into marriage expecting to divorce, yet the statistics don't lie... around half of marriages end in divorce.
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