A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:This question goes out to the ladies and girls out there. Do you regret your sexual past especially when you've only dated losers then finally one day meet the man of your dreams and you wished he was your first or that you had met him in the past?
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (25 September 2017):
 " There's no excuse for being promiscuous ! ".
Actually, even better : there's no NEED of excuses for being promiscuous. Excuse oneself to whom ?
Every woman has free agency over her body and sexuality, and everyone decides what use to do of these, how much- when- with whom etc. , according to her own criteria which she does not owe apologies for, or accounting to anybody.
Some women chose to stay virgin till marriage , some others to have multiple relations or multiple encounters, - as each one sees fit . No need for justifications or apologies in either case.
A
male
reader, webguynz  +, writes (25 September 2017):
unless she was really promiscuous I would let the past bother you. and yes ladies there is nothing attractive about promiscuity regardless of the reasons for it i.e deep seeded need to be accepted, past traumas, whatever, there is no excuse for being promiscuous!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 February 2015): I think the lying whore comment is harsh. I think the problem with the male anon is he "got a used/rental car sold as new." He feels duped, upset and got everyone else's sloppy seconds. I think he should dump her and move on. It is her fault for lying and his fault for not properly vetting her. They will both learn their lessons and apply those lessons to their next relationships
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A
female
reader, 0livia +, writes (24 February 2015):
 If I had dated and slept with a string of losers and then found the one, I would obviously rather that I had met him before wasting my time on everyone else..
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (24 February 2015):
Anon male reader of Feb. 21st .. " This thread has a lot of women just making each other feel better about themselves "...
Well,for " wanting to make each other feel better about ourselves "- we should feel bad, or not-so-good ( about our sexual choices ) to begin with :) !
Which is precisely the point, and the answer, of many female respondents , i.e. : no, we do not feel bad about our past sexual choices.
Of course ,if you assume that we can't be telling the truth , because it's impossible that any woman with sexual past does NOT regret it- well, that sort of shortcircuits the debate, doesn't it ?
Anyway, as Tisha says, back to the issue- the debate is getting complicated ,let's simplify, let's streamline it to the max. I have got an idea to keep things very neat and simple :
- so, some men think that women who enjoyed a degree of sexual variety ( and let's skip the whole issue of what degree is too much ! 50 men ? 30 ? 10 ? 3 ?.....) are sluts , whores, etc. They are " bad " women and bad choices.
OK. Fine. Nobody wants to pick a bad choice or a bad woman, whatever that may mean subjectively. So, for you guys who think : sexual past = bad woman ...then just stay the heck away from bad women. Make sure you pick a good one. It's buyer beware - it's up to you using all due diligence. Ask, interrogate, check thoroughly, sic a private eye on them, ... do whatever in your power to find out what is what. Most of all, be ruthlessly selective.
DO NOT date or marry any woman, if you know or suspect that her past might even remotely, vaguely bother you- for then going wailing about your terrible case of RJ . Too easy, spitting in the plate where you are eating, and frankly, also somewhat eye-roll inducing. Pardon me, but it sounds as foolish as a guy who wears size 11 shoes who goes out , buys a size 8 pair , ... and then blames the SHOES because they don't fit, and hurt like hell. There's nothing wrong with the shoes per se, there's something majorly wrong with your decision making capability !
And now we get to the honest whore / liar virgin.
Sad case- but even easier ! No quandary.
You chose someone thinking she was sexually inexperienced, and it turns out instead she was more exprienced than desired.
Well, if her past experience it is such a deal breaker, such a huge thing to give you nightmares and cold sweats, if it is such a big minus which nullifies all the other mental physical and moral pluses the woman may have- where's the quandary ? You know what you've got to do : ditch her pronto. Kick her to the curb . Make her history.
Not next year, not next month. TODAY.
Don't kvetch, don 't wring your hands. ACT.
Well, surely in this way we would miss all these very enjoyable debates about RJ and female sluts vs. male sluts and biological promiscuity ( good ) vs. cultural promiscuity ( bad ) .... but we ought not be selfish, Aunts and Uncles. We should not think of ourselves.
If there 's a simple, easy solution to a dilemma ( like : " if you've got sensitive toes, don't drive a hammer onto them- and if you do, then stop immediately " ! ), we just have to suggest it and recommend it warmly.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (23 February 2015): To both male anon: it is the use of the description "honest whore" that I have a problem with. So a woman enjoying her sexual freedom to you is a "whore"?
Ok,forget it.I think I know the answer.
Just FYI,I wouldn't call a man a "male slut" unless he was addressing women the way you do. I.e. trying to shame them by calling them "whores", "sluts" etc.
Both genders have the chance/freedom to explore and the past is the past. Can't be changed.
to the original OP (whoever that is): your ANGER and bitterness SHOWS. Don't lump all women in one bracket because ONE of them somehow HURT you (or lied to you or whatever). If you want to make it about lying-make the post about lying. NOT about shaming women for their pasts.
To janniepeg: You made a lot of assumptions. In this particular case: the wrong assumptions.
The scientist is the FURTHEST thing away from "alpha male"-i.e he was quite shy initially and didn't even initiate conversation with me.
I did,coz I was bored of talking to the arrogant a*hole.
But he was a pleasant surprise in the end :P
You got one thing very right: brain/how smart they are matters to me in general far more than looks. (Mr Hercules was not stupid either though! Maths/Finance/economics)
BUT the basis of casual sex is LOOKS. I don't deny this. That's why more attractive males get more sex (which seems to bother the rest of that gender...). But same goes for more attractive females.
Average/not-good-looking/"ugly" (I don't believe in calling somebody "ugly" but let's roll with it) women generally struggle just as much as unattractive men.
I can only get certain men and I KNOW that. It just does NOT bother me. Normally, I can't get Mr. Hercules I think.
Re casual sex: Same for guys- they can only get certain girls. But they seem bothered with that.
I was PHYSICALLY very attracted to Mr Hercules, hence the HUGE temptation. But due to my conversation with him I was too EMOTIONALLY repulsed to act on it.
MR. Hercules did not only TELL me about going/sleeping with super hot chicks. I SAW this first hand with my own eyes for the next couple of months (one semester).He was leaving that particular venue (that we all visited on a regular basis as it turned out) every night with a different girl (normally peroxide, super-hot blonde in a mini skirt). I presume they did not talk to him much and concentrated on his big biceps and perfect abs...
Honestly,sometimes I still wonder what drove MR Hercules to hit on me-I'm not a super-hot chick and that night I was wearing only jeans+a t-shirt and no scrap of make up (not even mascara!!),so I guess I'll never know lol.
Some women might be attracted to alpha males for casual sex. I'm not sure if I'm one of them (whoever mentioned omega at some point-now they sound like my cup of tea!).
The bottom line is: whatever the reasons for casual sex (for males/females), neither should regret the past. And actually (whether some men like to admit it or not) the rules are roughly the same for both genders (a.k.a. them admitting the wouldn't sleep with non-fit girls). More attractive=more casual sex. Simple as that,really.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1  +, writes (23 February 2015):
 So, to go back to the original question. Do I regret my sexual past? No. Did I date any losers? Define 'loser.' I dated one or two men who weren't right for me long term. They seemed like a good match at the time but then turned out to have some issues.
This is one of those broad questions that will get essentially the same answers. The fundamental answer to your question to women is: some will, some won't. The real question is why you feel the need to ask a bunch of strangers.... Obviously you feel that she should regret not having waited for the right one (aka you) and you are struggling to cope with the knowledge that she had sex with other men in the past. .
-------
"I am the original poster of this question. She did actually lie to me. The period of time when she was most sexually active she told me that she wasn't seeing anybody or dating anybody. These were not assumption. I only found out later in our marriage. It would've been nice for her to be honest upfront when we were dating so that I would have been able to make substantive choices about a future then."
----
OP you are 30-35, you are young enough to find another love in your life.
I would end the relationship based on this post by you. You are angry and distrustful and it doesn't sound as though you have forgiveness on tap to be able to move on from this with her.
Just end it. Say 'thanks for the memories, it was great but I can't trust you anymore' and then move on.
If you do want to try to work it out, find a great marriage counselor, otherwise stop prolonging the inevitable.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (23 February 2015):
 To female anon,
You are trying to disagree that women are attracted to alpha males and only marry average ones by using your example.
There are cerebral alpha males, there are physical alpha males and then a lot of alpha male wannabes. The majority of women prefer cerebral ones and not care too much about muscles. The one you mention sounds too superficial, too crass to be an alpha male. What makes an alpha male one is one knows that the brain is the biggest sexual organ. One who knows how to seduce a woman instead of one who makes people think he only goes out with super hot models.
To male anon, if casual sex is not the problem then why put so much emphasis on knowing about the past then? Is this a test to see if a woman would lie? If she tells the truth you decide not to marry her. If she lies and then you find out years later you tell her you would not have married her.
I think the husband's reaction upon knowing the truth reflects the health of the marriage. If his reaction is like, "honey, I totally get why you had to lie. I wished I didn't make you feel pressured to appear pure." It means the marriage is dear to him. They are two people who evolved and grew together. Their minds adapt as society liberates. However if his reaction is more like he felt cheated, used like a fool, then the marriage is not that great anyways. They should focus on things that can be changed, definitely not the past, or part ways. Easily said than done. Men with 5 kids probably would not want to start over again.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (22 February 2015): Based on what the last male reader wrote I would have to say that I would rather have an honest whore than a lying virgin.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (22 February 2015): I believe Janniepeg is on to something. I think the problem is not with the casual sex, promiscuity or past boyfriends I believe the problem is with lying. If men mature or immature know what they are getting into upfront, they should be able formulate their opinions and decide to stay in the relationship or move on. If women chooses not to say anything that is OK as well and I do not consider that lying. Pasts do sometimes catch up with people and can cause some awkward moments and that is where maturity comes in. If woman makes herself out to be something that she is not to keep the man or to not scare him away I think that is wrong and a man has the right to leave. Again it can be about anything, criminal record, drugs.................. not just retroactive jealousy.
I believe being honest upfront is a good litmus test to see if a future mate has potential or not. Each person is different but no one can and should fault you for your past if you are honest.
Truth be told most men are not miserable in their marriages. Money, job, maturity and other factors have a greater affect on a marriage survivability. I don't think retroactive jealousy is one of the top reasons that marriages fail. I would assume the percentage is low but I know someone here will correct me.
Everything I said above can apply for women choosing men as well. So this is not a man against woman thing only.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (22 February 2015):
It sounds like casual sex, promiscuity, past boyfriends are lumped in the same pile again.
If men think women should not lie about who they were with and who they find attractive or unattractive, men should also not lie about how much they hate marriage, since they are so miserable in it especially they can find reasons like retroactive jealousy to end it.
Just stop the whole charade and be done with it.
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A
female
reader, HU(wo)MAN +, writes (22 February 2015):
My experiences have made me who I am, and have allowed me to form relationships with good people. The only time I have felt regret, was when it was imposed on me by a man with views like yours. I regretted being honest about my past with someone who had retroactive jealousy. Sure, hindsight is twenty-twenty, and I might have made some different choices, but it wouldn't be for your reasoning of not waiting for Mr. Right. I was fortunate to have some very sweet boyfriends as a young woman, and I did not fully appreciate them until I experienced the opposite. No regrets though, they still weren't Mr. Right.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (21 February 2015): To male anon:Nope. Women react coz they feel "shot down"-as in the way you describe us.The fact that they stick together actually disproves ONE of your MAJOR points-that women shame other women who have casual sex. In general,I feel that the sisterhood exists and is just as strong as the brotherhood.Actually,male opinions are very valued- if we didn't care we simply would NOT be having this discussion with you.We would just let it slide. Pretend you don't exist.But we are not doing that.BTW, you did not ADDRESS ANY of OUR points-not the one with YouWish+ the book/ NOT the animal kingdom/dominance side of things that has a bearing/ NOT really addressing even your own concept- it just genuinely sounds as you despise women for having casual sex.And you KEEP blabbing about averages. Ok,let's speak about averages. I'll give ya an example of casual sex. It will shatter your world,I think, because it is so OUT of your little world.I'm an average girl (I think? I don't see myself as special). I'm tall, big boobs for my frame, you get the picture. What you'd refer to as European "standard",I'd think (god I feel silly classifying myself like this,it feels like classifying cows or breeds!! I feel the same about the word "average", but I have no exotic (Latin/African) features whatsoever so let's just go with it).Now. Night out. SUPER hot guy. Like a GOD. Adonis, Hercules,whatever. H-O-T. Smokin'He approaches me, we kiss,we flirt, he keeps saying stupid things such as :"Wow, I'm really impressed, you have no fat whatsoever. Nowhere on your body!" and funnily enough we started talking about the things you are saying:"So if I did,you wouldn't like me?","Nah,not to say this, but you don't. And your face.Your face is so pretty!","Ok,so what you are saying is you wouldn't fuck a fat,ugly girl?":"No,I wouldn't fuck a fat girl. But you know..her face...I don't mind...Like if she is ugly, but has big boobies and a fit body,I'd fuck her. Is not her fault that she has an ugly face-she was born like that. Can't do anything about it. But a fat body-nahh,that you can control. You can go to the gym,get fit etc."Very ENLIGHTENING conversation...No,I did not go home with him. I really felt TEMPTED to,but this person, this person seemed so shallow and ugly on the inside that I just couldn't.Even though on the OUTSIDE he was the picture of perfection. And more importantly: MY picture of perfection!!! tall, blond, very ripped, studying economics and business (so not stupid either...well,intellectually,at least). You know what I learnt later? He was one of YOU before-i.e. he had been rejected so many times in the past that he decided to get ripped (was very slim and unattractive before-saw photos), decided to study the subject above so he can work in the City, rake in the dosh and attract the ladies.He will attract SOME women ok. The type he wants,I bet-the ones that look like porn stars.I think that even though women were on him like flies on honey now+ he can get any super hot-girl,he STILL needed the constant reaffirmation. He STILL hated women (or that's what it felt like) for DARING to reject him.Now or in the past.IF I hadn't talked to him,then maybe I'd have taken him home. Sadly I DID talk to him...I went home with another guy :) he was soooo gentlemanly ^^ Loved it! To the other maleanon@ he was a scientist and very geeky. So cute! A bit on the chubby side too BUT he was VERY confident and I found that SEXY. It's something that the other guy lacked,I think. Oh, and he also gave me the best head!! fond memories :) Good,good guy :)
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (21 February 2015):
Sorry, but this thread has a lot of women making each other feel better about themselves and ignoring what us men have to say. The only woman I feel understands is "janniepeg" and kudos to her for trying to see the male point of view. She has been very sympathetic and insightful. Read every post she has made three times over.
It upsets me that when us men try to express our point of view we are shot down. I don't feel that is helpful to the male readers of this site. I think women feel like they are being attacked and so are reacting to that. I understand. However, it would be better to have a more rational discourse.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (21 February 2015): Yes that is fair. I have been coming across as a woman hater.
I have voiced support for conflicting values. I have lumped the entire female population together for negative comments. I have generally been bitter.
But I have been doing much of this to keep my points short and to support viewpoints that i think are a valid even if they are not my own. Someone has to speak for men's side.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (20 February 2015):
Okay that makes sense. Women should totally deny their casual sexual wants so the average male do not feel contempt for us. It's immoral to make an average male angry so we should live our lives according to how they feel.
Up until recently, women didn't have sex. Sex is when a woman allows a man to enter her as he shows her how decent and moral he is. The vagina is just a hole and a man has the key when he is too ugly for casual sex so he has to be a family man in order to get that key. It's a hole with no pleasure zones. It must be dangerous for it to feel pleasure. If it feels pleasure then she might want a more than average man. The definition of a slut is one who makes an average man angry. Ancient God must be very average then.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (20 February 2015):
 I agree with you Cindy... male anon does not get that what makes him average and unattractive and unable to get laid is his hatred of women in general. his total disdain for them as people...
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (20 February 2015):
Anon male reader, not to be bitchy on purpose but... I have to say it, of this is how you feel, then it is a big luck that your being ( or, most probably, feeling ) unattractive prevents you from getting the casual sex you crave.
You seem to couple a remarkable longing for casual sex, ( and an exaggerated idea of its importance to your wellbeing ) , with an utter contempt , make it DISGUST , for the women you would have it with, if you were so lucky.
Imagine these poor women, if they decided to leave their VGL guys alone , and pick YOU instead for sex partner. They'd give you physical pleasure, and passion, and time, and attention, maybe cuddles too if you were so inclined.. they'd boost your ego, give you something to brag about with friends , wanking material for the next dry spell, they'd make you feel generally good.... and all the while you'd be ,secretly or not so secretly, thinking of them as nasty immoral contemptible stupid pigs . Not very nice for them. I think that most women can handle graciously an implicit " yeah, you are ok but nothing special , I can do better ".... but being a " you scum, I need you only because I have such a bad case of blue balls, but I loathe you and resent you for it " ... is quite unsettling. Almost scary.
Who knows, maybe it's THAT , and not your average looks, which makes the hotties turn you down. There IS such a thing as female intuition,- even if some times ,sadly, women choose to ignore it or second guess it when caught in wishful thinking, or the heat of the moment. Maybe the hotties , and non- hotties alike, feel instinctively your distaste , antagonism and superciluousness and, understandably, choose to not reward them.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (20 February 2015): Women are as capable of casual sex as men. And they do have a very unfair advantage over most average men getting it. And it is natural for them to want to try it with above-average men.
But here's the problem: It's just as natural for average guys to resent women for it! And it's just as natural for men to MORALLY prefer women who don't like casual sex!
Why do only women get an excuse for being "normal"? Why do women get a free pass to feel & act how they "naturally" want to, but average & below-average men (which is the MAJORITY of men, not some annoying few) are expected to deny our natural feelings & wants?
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (19 February 2015):
Dear Geeky Chubby Male Virgin,
Hang in there... you are just my type... do you play board games... I bet you can find a woman at a board game convention... that's how I met my husband.
check out the World Boardgaming championships website.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (19 February 2015):
Finally something I can comment on:
to anon male who said:
"It ended up being no future, no strings, expectations, just some fun to make you feel sexy again?"
it didn't END up being NO future... it started out as no strings, no expectations and fun.
as for "making me feel sexy AGAIN" (emphasis mine)
again no.... i did not need to have fun and games sex to make me feel sexy again... that's not why I have sex. I'm hot and sexy I was at 16 I was at 26, I was at 36 and now at nearly 55 I'm sexier than ever.
I LOATHE when people (especially men) think they understand why people (women) do things. Why can't we do it for the same reason a man does it?
because it's fun and it feels good?
why do we have to have expectations of it being something, and why do we NEED it to make us FEEL something?
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (19 February 2015): The male virgin here. I'm going to have to disagree slightly that average guys can easily get laid. I suppose there's some truths to that but being a virgin at 25 its not true in my case. I'm a geek and a bit on the heavy side, and whenever I approach women to get to know them, it ends in rejection. Not disagreeing with the posts on shame or regret, just saying its not easy for some of us to have sex.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (19 February 2015):
Ok, so suppose women have a natural, biological unfair advantage over men in getting casual sex ( and, we also have to suppose that getting casual sex is a big coveted goal for everybody ). So be it- then , why should they have to regret it, and why men want them to regret it ?
I am short; taller people have an advantage over me ,which they have done nothing to deserve, in, say, reaching taller shelves,- which makes their life easier. I may be a tad envious, that they never have to stretch painfully their arms in a supermarket,or crane uncomfortably their necks to see a movie sitting behind taller people- but I don't expect or demand the tall people to REGRET that. A la guerre comme a la guerre, - everybody uses the weapons they have at their disposal to get what they need, what's there to regret ?
Ok, I was just clowning a bit here, - on a more serious note : Supposing that all women love hot bodied mean jerks, ( which is debatable ), and that after said jerks have put them through the wringer the women move on to decent honest not very attractive Average Joes, can't we just see this as a natural, healthy, inevitable process of changing, maturing, growing up and learning to make the right choices ? nobody is born learned, you learn through experience. Learning to ride a bycicle may imply a few tumbles, and learning to choose a man for what really counts and not for superficial , frivolous reasons may take trials and errors.
If you are a teenager , I think it's normal that you want to "try " a hot guy also, or mostly, because you want to ompress your girlfriends, or reassure yourself that you are hot shit and can "get" who you want, or because he just gives you that butterflies in the stomach and litte shiver down there even if you know that he is a total dick and a player , etc. etc. Ten or fifteen years later, hopefully you do not care about this stuff anymore and you are ready to make more entlightened, less impulsive or self destructive choices. It's not just "making do " in most cases, it's evolving ,it's undergoing a personal transformation that for most people takes time and experience to happen. There's nothing to regret, it's a life process.
When I was a teenager I was no better than others, probably I have spent too a whole day sobbing over a bad hairdye, or not being invited to the coolest party.
Ask me if I cry NOW over this stuff, and I'll tell you no,if I wanted to cry , I'd have plenty of " better " things to cry over
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (19 February 2015):
 Tisha totally read my mind, because when I read the anon male post, the first thing that popped into my head is "Is this all there is is sour grapes", where some guy is pissed that he feels he gets the "leftovers" because other women are sleeping with hotter men than he is, and then he wants them to "regret" it once they realize that the "average joe" is so much better than the "hot" guys because all hot guys are jerks and users, but all girls get them because..hey, we date hot guys only casually to boost our overweaning egos until we settle for the average guy??
Yet, these average guys are pissy because they have to date women "below their standard"? I feel sorry for all the women this anon guy ever dated, because he was looking down on all of them. Sheesh.
I have a novel idea - don't regret anything! Don't compare what or who you are with to what other people have! Life is much better that way, and it is a much more honest life.
As an aside, the whole "alpha", "beta" thing when describing men? It's a load of crap. However, in case it isn't, I've always been partial to "omega" men. My parents forced us to watch animal programs every Sunday night (Nature, Nova, Marty Stouffer's Wild America, Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom), and they talked about Alpha males and beta males, and how only the alphas got the mates. Not true! The Omega males would wait until the two alpha were fighting each other to the death for the right to mate the female, and the Omega male would slip in while they were distracted fighting each other and he'd mate with her. No muss, no fuss! The omega males are the intelligent and smart ones who didn't try to prove their egos and act all macho.
They're also the ones who don't look at women and rate them according to what society tells them is supposed to be their standard. They operate to their own drum.
Life's too short to be envious or jealous or secretly hoping the women regret all the "alphas" they were with before meeting you.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (19 February 2015):
I think what's immoral is not the fact that a woman decides to have casual sex, but rather, she settles for a husband and pretends she is attracted to him when he's not. Some women can pull through it and enjoy the sex but many can't. Primal attraction is not something that money can buy. A house, a ring, and being a good father is not going to bring out that from a woman. You are either born with it or not. You can keep a woman, or force a woman to marry (in some countries) if you have money, but that intense animal attraction happens only towards alpha males. An ugly husband is still going to want to feel he is best. He still wants to feel desired same as everybody else.
Alpha fux, beta bux is what plagues men this generation. When women treat men like they don't deserve loving attention because they are not attractive and just use them as financial support, it makes men angry. It's not too fair for women either when they have to choose either a chaste life (being ignorant about what a Lothario guy tastes like) or being a slut forever. Women can't have the cake and eat it too, and this is what bitter guys are saying here.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (19 February 2015):
I don't know either. So if a young girl is super attracted to a hot guy and has sex with him, then the next day she got hit by a truck and died. Is what she did immoral? Kind of like the man talking in the forest and no one listened metaphor. Is she going to hell now because she made Jesus mad?
Or, if the girl had sex with a hot guy, but she is not the marrying type so she stayed single forever. Although she uses her energy to do a lot of charity work and is nice to family. Is what she did immoral?
Unless someone explains what immoral means. Is this just a feeling or does it even follow logic?
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 February 2015):
So it's not so much a moral objection as one that "average" anon male is upset that the only women available for youthful sexual purposes are either a) too ugly to have sex with or b) so pretty and air-headed that they giggled and laughed while having sex with the super handsome hot guys.
"At best we can have flings with women below our standards, and that is just not the same. It still takes a lot of effort for us and it does not make us feel desirable."
So is it morals? Or is it sour grapes? Not sure male anon has built a good case for the morals aspect of it.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2015): Here is where the misunderstanding in this discussion is: the pairings are different for long term relationships versus casual sex. The hot guy/average girl matchup is what happens in casual flings. Longer term relationship matches lean the other way.
Women, I will try to explain what the men are saying here. I speak harshly to make it clear so bear with me:
Remember when you occasionally had a casual fling with some hot guy? It ended up being no future, no strings, expectations, just some fun to make you feel sexy again? Well most average guys never get to do that in their entire lives. We work very hard to get girls who are below our standards for anything less than a long term relationship. (At a long term relationship we just work hard.)
Casual flings with a really sexy partner are something that most people want at some stage. Most women can get them, a few really sexy guys can get them all day long. But most average guys don't have a snowball's chance in hell at it, ever. At best we can have flings with women below our standards, and that is just not the same. It still takes a lot of effort for us and it does not make us feel desirable.
What average guys can get are long term relationships. When this happens we almost invariably discover that we are near the low end of the range of attractiveness that she has been with. We will never measure up to the sexier guys she screwed for years while we struggled with the dating game.
We often hear about how those hot guys were crappy boyfriends compared to us. She tells us how those experiences were so difficult, etc. We're thinking, "No shit they were bad boyfriends! That was obvious from 5 minutes after you met them, and you still chose that trade-off anyway because you were getting someone so sexy & thrilling! And you still have the good memories, and you still have those guys on speed-dial for a booty call & ego boost any time our relationship goes sour! So don't expect me to be too sympathetic about all the problems those guys have caused you! There were guys like me on the sidelines the whole time, and we went home alone! That would have been ME you were passing up!"
But guys like us make a good providing husband which is supposed to make us feel better. It does not make us feel better at all. It makes us feel like a consolation prize, or sometimes even used.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (18 February 2015):
Maybe it's because I am so bad at maths, but I could never quite get why some people say " getting sex is much easier for women than for men ". How does it work ?... I mean : a woman who's having sex , is having sex with a man, right ? ( at least the hetero females ). There's two of them, and they are both having sex. Ok, I realize perfectly that it's not like Noah's ark where everybody is perfectly and evenly paired. But neither it's the way like some people make it sound !, as if there was just ONE , or two, hot lucky cheeky alpha male out of 100 , who beds ALL the women, thereby leaving 98 Average Joes high and dry, sexless, and green with envy. This is so blatantly not true !, just have a look around anywhere , beach ,mall, social function, wherever. You see plenty of Average Joes with girls - and often better looking than them, in fact, it's much easier than the more attractive half of a couple is the female one, plenty of unattractive guys with attractive girls, the other way around... not so much. ( I guess women are less choosy in terms of loooks ? ). Then, regardless of their partner's attractiveness.. the fact remains that next door guys and Average Joes DO date and mate and , if they want, get married. They do it all the time . If sex and / or relationships were only for a minority of beautiful, superior, self confident semigods- the human race would be extinct by now. Which is not, if any , our planet is dangerously overpopulated .
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (18 February 2015):
I don't know of anyone who wouldn't have a problem with a wife or girlfriend lying about being in contact with an ex or rival while in a relationship with them.
Being in contact with other men behind a husband's or boyfriend's back is universally wrong and disloyal.
I thought the issue was what the woman did before meeting the guy with jealousy issues.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (18 February 2015):
The "ugly guy, hot wife" is probably why married men (good guys) are having jealousy that their wives have had sex with hotter guys. Women can be choosy about looks when going to pubs but settle for a husband. It's usually husbands that let themselves go such as getting a pot belly sitting in front of a TV. Men who want to look sellable would go to the gym and groom well.
I actually skipped college sex because I was this awkward, lonely international school girl who avoided people. I didn't think there were a lot of jerks there though as it's liberal, artsy and LGBTU friendly. As I am older I would be able to decide who to have sex with.
I have a problem with a person who is going out with me, trying to make it official while shagging other girls, but not before meeting me. For example, if a boyfriend asks, "So, what did you do this weekend," and the girl says, "um, I've been hanging around with a friend at the ice rink." when actually she was having sex with a hot guy, who is also a jerk trying to jeopardize the budding relationship. Or, "who's on the phone there?" "Oh, he's just a friend." Then years later the husband finds out he's actually that jerk who was a rival.
I could see why the husband feels deceived like an idiot. Especially if that rival lives close by.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (18 February 2015):
So, because men have to be "less choosy" to have sex, that's why we see a lot of super attractive women out there with mediocre-looking guys or less?
Sorry, but I don't see women out there with the mega-attractive guys out there. In fact, society and pop-culture make it a habit to glorify the trend of below-average looking guys with attractive partners or mates. The trope isn't "Attractive man, ugly woman". It's "Ugly guy, hot wife".
I'm going to give more examples:
Simpsons
Family Guy
Seinfeld
Beauty and the Beast
Give Geeks a Chance (notice that the WOMEN aren't the geeks?)
The point is - the "Average Joes" are supposed to get the hot women. Not the other way around.
Even in the movies/TV shows where the token "ugly duckling" women are the heroines of the story, they have to get a makeover to make them into supermodel types before they can "get the guy", like Miss Congeniality, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, Princess Diaries, and so on.
And if it's guys who have to "settle" for average looking women, and all women have to do to snag these great looking boyfriends by merely breathing, then why is it WOMEN that have to wear heels, corsets, shave and wax everything, spend so much time and money on beauty products? Guys put on comfortable clothes and deal with basic hygiene, and women take all that time. Guess since we don't need to do all of that and can get the hot guys without effort, maybe we can chuck that pantyhose, brassieres, heels, and accessories!
Women are NOT impressed with men who are womanizers or players. Other MEN are. I read a book written by a guy player entitled "I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell", some disgusting Fratire written by a guy who purportedly picked up lots of women and used them and tossed them. Again, no downside here - only bragging.
Anyone who says WOMEN do the most shaming of sexual women is not operating out of reality. I have never seen such shaming of women by another woman that compares to what I've seen by MEN such as this one. Mind you - this isn't from some fringe ugly corner of the internet. This little gem is from a New York Times BEST-SELLING book.
(Reference "I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell" - Tucker Max pg. 323, @2009 - used with permission *reference and credit provided)
"1-star (aka common-stock pig): No redeeming qualities. This girl is ugly, usually fat, boring and sucks in just about every way possible. If you don’t know a common-stock pig when you see one, you are destined to spend the rest of your life with one.
2-star (aka respectable pig): One redeeming quality, like large breast, nice ass, cute face, great dick-sucking lips, etc. If you concentrate on that one redeeming physical quality, and you get shit-house, you are not too upset with yourself waking up next to a respectable pig. Of course, you still make her crawl out the window when she leaves, because you don’t want your friends to see her, but at least you don’t want to gargle bleach and scrub yourself like rape victim after she leaves.
3-star (aka decent/attractive/pretty): Acceptable to be seen with in public. She is average when sober, but looks much better after only three beers. You'll admit to your friends that you are f-ing her, but you still make fun of her behind her back, and tell them lies about her sexual prowess and bi-sexual tendencies to justify you’re dealing with her. She is not bad overall, and will do nothing if nothing better comes along, but could be left in a heartbeat if the opportunity for a hot chick arise. Sadly, most guys end up having to settle for a 3-star, as these are the most prevalent type of women.
4-star (aka girlfriend material): This is the girl that is very attractive, but not super-hot. You will be seen with her in public at any point in the day, even before drinking. You think twice before ditching this for a hot chick, especially if she has special powers (tongue ring, double-jointed, etc.). Ascension to the 4-star level can only be attained through use of a petition. The candidate must secure 75% of the vote from those polled. (Note: bonus points only make a candidate petition eligible. She still must garner 75% of the vote)
5-star (aka super hot): This is the hot chick. Hopefully no further explanation is necessary. It is kind of like the Hall of Fame. Very few women are 5-stars, about 3-5% of the population. A declaration that someone is hot is assumed to be true, but can be rebuked if 25% of those polled voted against her 5-star placement.
Other category: 0 star (aka wildebeest): The lowest of the low. A 1-star (common-stock pig) with a terrible personality qualifies as a wildebeest. They should all be put to sleep. This is that loud, disgusting fat girl in the bar that smokes, orders complicated drinks and then spills them on everyone, and is generally just so annoying that you have to actively restrain yourself from kicking her in the crotch and stomping on her throat until she drown on her own blood. There is no insult too mean or crude for her, and basic human rights do not apply to her."
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Yeah. I've never heard that sort of vile shaming from a woman, and the fact that other men ate this book up like Manna from heaven pretty much closes my mind to any consideration otherwise. My brother knew this guy - this wasn't prose. He felt this way for real, and his "disciples" did too.
So why are guys like this celebrated and emulated, yet women (4 out of 6 of the "ratings") are shamed? And then, to justify retroactive jealousy on top of this because it's "so much harder" for a guy to get laid?
I was never and still have never been one for casual sex. But I'll fight for the right for any woman to choose it without being treated like this or shamed by guys who have no self-control over their obsession and territorialism.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2015):
Two comments on this thread I agree with:
"Who shames female sluts? More women than men.
Who is impressed by male sluts? More women more than men.
Who gets the blame for all this? More men than women."
Women call each other sluts much more often than men do and judge each other for it. Women also (even in this thread) say they prefer men who are sexually experienced. The reality is that for every one of those slutty males that women think boast of their conquests in the locker room (which NEVER happens by the way!) there is a woman who went along with it. I *NEVER* talk about sex with male friends and if a guy does bring it up (which is unusual) I brush it off because it is not polite conversation. It is *WOMEN* who bring it up bothmore often both with men and amongst themselves.
"indycares, it's different because in general, men have a harder time getting laid. The ones who brag about sowing wild oats are probably like, 10% in society while the rest gets bitter about why it's not so easy for them. While women of average looks and body could get laid almost any time."
Yes, this is more accurate. I think if men could get laid as easily as women could they probably would and the ones who can do. However, in general, young women are much more desirable than young men. Is it fair to bash a woman because she can get free drinks every night of the week? Not really. However, she also needs to acknowledge the dynamic and stop telling us guys who are more sensitive or whatever-the-case-may-be to get over it. Some of us do think twice before we sleep with a woman because we have moms, sisters, and daughters that have been taken advantage of by scuzzy men. This mentality that what is good for the man must be good for the woman completely ignores that what women perceive men to be like is quite different from reality. I think every single woman I have been with has had more casual sex than I have and I only date "nice" girls. Don't let that small percentage of the male population that screws everything that moves deceive you and, yes, we are distraught that young women can't recognize that jerk for what he is. (Older women get much better at it through trial and error apparently. LOL!)
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2015): @YouWish,
The total average number of hetero partners for men & women must add up to the same for both sexes. That is just how the math works.
The difference in the reported numbers is thought to be because of people fudging their facts and/or disagreeing on what qualifies as "sex". Men like to tilt their number higher and women tilt theirs lower.
Its well known & documented that there is a difference in casual sex partner choosing. Men are known for getting less choosy about the attractiveness of their partners for casual sex (despite being absolutely notorious for being SO PICKY about looks in general.) This is because we have to. Women are known for choosing even more attractive men for casual flings, because they are able to.
So to recap: For both sexes to get the same amount of partners, men must compromise even more than normal for casual sex and women can afford to be even more selective for casual sex. That paints a very clear picture of who has the easier time getting casual sex.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (17 February 2015):
Didn't Hugh Hefner advocate total sexual freedom? Anon male, please do advise if you partake of the sexual freedom known as porn?
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (17 February 2015):
Okay, I wasn't going to come back to this until I read this:
"The only reason we men are not allowed to worry about our own needs anymore is because it forces women to accept a downside to their total sexual freedom. Now who is being immature?"
Let's talk about this, shall we??
If there were a "downside" to sexual freedom, then a man is a complete and utter hypocrite if they have more sexual partners than their "ideal" chaste woman does.
According to the Kinsey Institute's 2005 study on number of sexual partners between genders, they found that by the ages of 30-44, the average for males was 6-8 female sexual partners in their lifetime, and the average for females in the same age bracket was 4 male sexual partners.
17% of men have had more than 21 sexual partners as opposed to just 3% of women with the same count.
56% of men and 30% of women have had more than 5 sexual partners.
And someone would say that it's harder for a guy to get laid? Please. THAT is what bothers me the most - guys who sit on a pedestal and have retroactive jealousy and make judgments about women and say there's a "downside" to their sexual choices, while fully in denial of the double standard between genders.
In short, if these averages are true, then men are disqualified from making judgments about women's sexuality. I have more respect for a guy who has kept himself "chaste" and prefers a girl with similar values than a guy who has had multiple partners and then turns around to shame a woman for wanting to be AS FREE sexually.
I don't like liars when it comes to sexual choices. But I also don't like hypocrites, and I don't like how blind guys choose to selectively be when it comes to their own choices. Not only that, but just who did these women sleep with, except for the same guys who sleep with them, then don't respect them for the thing they pressured them to do.
Men don't have to make a "higher effort". Come on.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (17 February 2015):
Dear OP, did you really want people to weigh in on this? Or was this more a desperate hope that you would somehow hear an answer that would ease the pain you appear to be suffering?
Some women will say, yes, I wish I hadn't had sex so young. Others will say, I made the decisions I made at the time and I can live with them just fine. Others will say, what, is there some sort of problem that I had sex and enjoyed it but wasn't intending to commit to or marry the man?
Still others might say that they were abused and didn't realize they even had a choice to NOT have sex. (Sorry, just read an article that young teens are being forced into sex and bearing children rather than being encouraged to finish their education and make their own choices. Must be a woman thing.)
So what is it you hope you will hear that will make things better? What will it take for you to get the help your marriage obviously needs?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2015): As a not very handsome male virgin who's on the heavy and geeky side, I don't want to know about a woman's sexual past. Unless she's walking around with a std, don't tell me and I won't ask. I don't ask a question I don't want to know the answer to. If she regrets it, she regrets it. If she doesn't, she doesn't. Simple. Like everyone has said here, the past is the past. Can't waste energy trying to rebuild it. And no reason to shame either, its not her fault she had fun when I could never get my foot in the door. I just hope she's ok with me having zero experience, otherwise I'm just another regret/disappointment.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2015): Women say, and sometimes believe, they are not drawn to male sluts. Women also say, and sometimes believe, they are not drawn to arrogant jerks. LOL.
Okay. Sure. Whatever you want to tell yourselves.
But please don't expect men to buy your denials too. We have learned through long hard experience.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 February 2015): @Male anon,
ok,wow. And just like that I revert to my previous opinion.
So by your own admission:
Who shames male sluts? NO ONE. (your words: you don't build them up,so you don't shame them either)
Who shames female sluts? Men (your words:prefer "chaste" women) and other women, so basically EVERYONE.
Nope,women don't have the same amount to lose any more either (since you seem to look at things biologically/animal kingdom planet style. 21st century= pill+ condom, common and a fairly safe combination don't you agree? So no women can't get pregnant as easily any more, so they don't have as much to LOOSE).
Wow,all that choice and freedom must really scare ya. Oh,btw,there are those little magical things called coils and even implants recently,but let's not dwell on that too much,shall we?
Again,amazing what we can do in the 21st century.
Oh,and just to clarify-animal kingdom thinking that is-
women could NEVER really CHOOSE their partners before (re:casual sex) which is what you'd have us believe.
Arranged marriages (still exist nowadays!), FGM, think 13th century morals-if she doesn't want me I can force her.
So in YOUR animal kingdom the STRONGEST physically would have won (i.e. the man). Therefore the woman would not have been "picking" anyone.
A couple more points:
"Who shames female sluts? More women than men." Nope, some women do,as do some men, to justify their view of the world and their self-imposed "chastity". But actually MORE MEN judge them. YOURSELF included- you made as much clear in your opinion that only "some men not all" sleep with women Perceived as "sluts" (if that's not judging,I don't know what it is) + you prefer a "chaste" woman
"Who is impressed by male sluts? More women more than men." IMPRESSED? Women? By male sluts? What did you take?
the example I gave before,I gave coz men THINK that would impress women that's why they boast about it in such public places (presumably-I really have no clue why they do it as it only brings pitiful glances from the majority of women.If they indeed were so successful there wouldn't be the need to boast about it. OR " Big,fancy car=small dick". Like they try to compensate for something. But let's say that I wouldn't call them "liars" so, innocent till proven guilty,therefore I accept they might have actually had those experiences).
"Who gets the blame for all this? More men than women." Wrong. Men like you simply don't seem to understand why they don't get their way after blaming women for everything that's wrong in their universe.
I just thank God, Allah, Buddha or whoever is up there every day that I was not born in one of those Arabic countries where women "PICK" not to drive, not to have the choice of whom to marry, not to be able to participate in sports etc. etc. TODAY. As we speak.
Women (and men!) have fought for far too long to get on an equal footing. So,yes, if you tell me that I should keep dreaming about it-I'll!!! Coz it all started with a dream and a dream of equality and non-prejudice,a-la-Nelson-Mandela style.
Ps: I'd also like to clarify that in this discussion "men" and "women" were stereotyped and generalised and lumped together in two big,homogeneous groups.
The reality is: within each group there is a significant difference in opinions,outlook etc.
This is why in general,I try to avoid stereotyping and generalising,but it was unavoidable in this case (for the ease of discussion). Please do keep in mind that I don't actually think that all women and all men are one and the same.
The Nonny
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2015): Men act more promiscuous than women because we have to make far more effort just to accumulate the same number of partners as women do by being choosier. Men have to go make efforts to get casual and women have to make efforts to get relationships. This is how the genders are wired. This could only change if men got more picky about who they sleep with AND if women also got less picky. Neither one is going to happen any time soon so there is no point in asking for it. The biology determines these things. Women have more to lose by picking a less attractive partner for casual sex than men do so that sets the tone of everything. Men don't criticize male sluts much but we also don't build them up. We just don't care. We don't care about female sluts either. We don't want them for relationships as much as chaste females. But some men (not all or even most) will sleep with them. Who shames female sluts? More women than men. Who is impressed by male sluts? More women more than men. Who gets the blame for all this? More men than women.
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (16 February 2015):
I have a feeling OP is asking this because his wife said she regretted it but he didn't believe it. If that's true your wife wants to appear apologetic so you would let the issue go away. So the majority of women don't regret it. There are indeed women who regret, but mainly to keep peace and the marriage going.
For me, let's say my husband found out I was not as innocent as he thought I was and giving me a hard time about this, I would say I don't regret it. If you have a problem with that, can't move on and be happy then let's split up because nothing I say or do could make it better. Saying you regret it when you don't is phony, and I certainly don't consider the need to have a woman without a past to be a legitimate need, or the need to have a woman with psychic powers so she knows when and where to meet you the first time.
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (16 February 2015):
All interesting answers. Perhaps touched people's wrong buttons.
I guess I would say I wish my husband met me sooner but I won't regret dating losers. Not dating losers doesn't mean I would meet my husband the first time. I can't make a good man come into my life. I have to be emotionally ready for one too and fate works in a mysterious way. Saying dating losers made me the way I am today, my experience led me to you blah blah, is overly sentimental. I really don't give it much thought. It's rather just events in my timeline. Although if my husband wants to hear something sweet to brighten up his day I would tell him, of course honey I wish you were my first. To say I regret my past implies a man wants to change my past and own it.
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (16 February 2015):
The only people who regret their past are ones who still bought into old values. Women born before 70's are like this but not today. I think as men get open minded so do women. No one goes to a night club, things get heated and think, "maybe I shouldn't do this because it would hurt my future husband." Now they think "if he's hurt then maybe he's not right for me. There are others who wouldn't look at it as an issue." The reason why there is sexual freedom is because men let go of the concept of pure versus whorish, which is constructed as a form of control, a way of disabling a woman's sexuality. Having recreational sex is no longer considered immoral as is being gay. People will still use religion to argue that god didn't intend gay relationships but gay marriages are happening. Soon a lot of states would approve of them. Like it or not.
I think women are caring about mens needs more so than ever. There are books and websites on how to reclaim our femininity, on how to understand a man and how to generate happiness from within. There are needs that are more practical today than wanting a woman without a past. Such as creating harmony in the home, being emotionally supportive, planning fun activities and enjoying the moment. These are things that do count.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2015): As you said, most women are not promiscuous. Sexual past for most women was not to change partners without regrets. Most women don't sleep with every stranger they meet I a bar. But... Please don't compare men and women. Though I believe that not all men are promiscuous, I do believe on a promiscuity level percentage wise, men in general are much more willing to have one night stands than women. While most women will never sleep with someone they don't like, men do it n a regular basis, if they have a go. So, in my opinion who needs to have regrets about their sexual past is men, not women. With that said, I had my share of men, which most of them were not a good experience, not sexually not emotionally. I wish 80% of them I never met in my life. I think what OP is asking about if women regret not "saving" themselves for the man of their dreams. Well, this is so behind history. It's even pointless to talk about it now, As it never happens anymore. This notion of being a virgin, and have only one man in her life doesn't even visit woman's thoughts anymore, may be in a very rare ocassions. Promiscuity has nothing to do with it. A woman can have 3-4 partners in her life before she marries, that's hardly promiscuous. So, what to regret about?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2015): Hi!First of all:thank you both. Your opinions certainly provide an interesting perspective.@male anon : Thank you very much for clarifying your position. I'm sorry but your previous statement, taken just on its own, can be read in a completely different way.Oh, god,how I wish you could be right! I suppose you are right in a way of course (we are made up of our experiences,of people who surround us etc etc.,so it's a different reality for each one,be it a man or a woman and yours is obviously different from mine).You're right-I'm no man and don't know what is being said in male locker rooms. HOWEVER,so far,in my experience men seem to be EXTREMELY boastful of their sexual experiences. Not,just a tad... Nahhh,quite a lot!!Also,IF you were 100% right-how do you explain the significant success of dating apps such as Tinder (for hooking-up-in the UK,at least), Grindr (same,but for LGBT.Again in the UK-don't know about the rest of the world) etc etc.Their success (and just how widespread and widely accepted those apps are) suggests to me that sex etc. - is at least equally important to both genders and that the majority (otherwise they wouldn't spread like wildfire) are quite interested and USE those apps. Men included.So in conclusion: you guessed what I was hinting at,better than YouWish did.And if you are the same anon male: oh,you can! just find an honest woman and ask an honest question! If you don't like the answer,then you are free to leave,but I guess women are sometimes a bit more apprehensive of answering accurately ,because as YouWish and so many others so explained, they are still socially judged for expressing said sexual freedom.I mean they are made to feel guilty for it. Even this question was originally about that (i.e. do you regret what you've done?=do you feel guilty about what you've done?)See it this way: In a bar. Late at night. Group of lads. One is boasting about how many women he slept with. You might not high-five him, but will anyone express surprise at his boasting? nah,as YouWish (and several others) clarified-he will be seen (generally) as a "stud". A woman doing the EXACT same will be seen (generally,again) as a "slut".This is what I don't like.I also don't think-"oh,he's a player,he'll always be like that". I mean even players get tired of the game and the chase at some point(again,at least from what I've seen).So what I'm trying to say I guess is: we are not the same. We have multiple facets and different men (in my case!) bring out a different facet of my personality. Like some people can push certain buttons and others just can't.YouWish- thank you! A lot of food for thought and you presented your points very well (i.e. with the religious,cultural etc. example).I guess thanks to this very clear explanation now I know what you mean- you are saying that is a matching moral compass that you look for,i.e. a shared sense of the same values. Very wise. So do I,actually, but I've never attached "value" (morally speaking at least) to sex and therefore it never formed part of my compass. Neither did religion (i.e. I've been with people from a different religious/cultural background to mine-caused a bit more friction but, ultimately it was not the reason why things broke down).I totally get now what you mean though- if it is really, really important to someone maybe they want to be with someone to whom it is also really,really important (like religion as you said).Which is a fair point.Love,The Nonny
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2015): @ YouWish:
Give men the right to screen their dates for a compatible sexual history, and it will end most of this "immature male ego" you refer to.
Men get into those situations because we are socially pressured to ignore our own emotional & moral needs when choosing a mate. Then we struggle when we cannot keep ignoring our worsening feelings as we get more serious about the woman.
The only reason we men are not allowed to worry about our own needs anymore is because it forces women to accept a downside to their total sexual freedom. Now who is being immature?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2015): @female anon:
You're right, women don't need to consider promiscuous men, ever.
But you are wrong if you think this would put most men out of the running. Most men are not promiscuous. Neither are most women.
There is nothing hypocritical about the average man disliking a promiscuous partner. The average man does not high-five a male slut in the locker room. This is not what men are like behind closed doors, this is mostly women's imaginary fantasy about being a male slut. Most men don't really care what other men are doing in the bedroom. The only people giving male sluts a lot of popularity are women.
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (16 February 2015):
Okay, so no one is obligated to do anything with anyone else. So? That's a non-sequitur.
People can be with others who sexual values match theirs. It's perfectly fine for someone who chooses not to have casual sex to prefer a partner who feels the same way they do, just as it's okay to prefer someone with a similar religious or cultural background as well.
What I have a hard time with are guys who spend their romantic lives chasing women to have sex with them, then judging them as not good partners or "degraded" or "devalued" for loving sex as much as they do.
I've seen it a lot! Guys who get into a relationship with a girl, progress the relationship to the point where sex starts, and they're sexual with this woman to the point where it's monogamous, birth control is established, and then the condom comes off after determining that both are disease-free.
Then...BOOM! All of a sudden, he starts getting upset because she might have had a boyfriend or a long-term relationship before him that had the same progression as his current relationship. Then he starts obsessing over her past sex with the guy or guys, and then it all goes south because he'd have rather been the ONLY one who had sex with her.
So why is it okay for him to enthusiastically drive the relationship to become sexual, only to devalue her because she'd gone down the same road with someone else in the past?? Never mind that he also had past relationships where the SAME THING HAPPENED, right??
And people say that women can't control their emotions, yet the unchecked immature male ego is a dangerous thing...where they'd rather shame and hurt a loyal partner because he can't stand that she has the power to possibly compare him to a past lover. Doesn't matter than she's most likely NOT comparing him...HE's comparing himself. And women get compared all the time to men's past sexual encounters and we have to put up with it because they CAN sow their "wild oats".
It *is* a property thing. It's an ego thing, a territory thing, all of that. The world is not right for women as long as women in some cultures have to have hymen repair surgery because tearing it once wasn't good enough for them! Genital mutilation happening because men think that women are devalued for having been sexual before them. If only those men who demand this mutilation could get circumcised more than once.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 February 2015): To the male anonymous reader:
LOL!
By the same token (I'm reversing your statement):
Women have no obligation to consider men with promiscuous histories for serious partners. EVER.
???
I feel that if we were to follow your rules (equally!) the human race might disappear into oblivion...
21st century tip: Women are not their man's "property".
They are feeling,breathing human beings. You can not buy us (i.e. the idea of a "dowry" in the past/arranged marriages etc.), we do not have to be "pure" (religious idea to ensure one's progeny really did belong to the husband-useful before DNA tests,I suppose) and our sexual past has no effect on how good of a partner we are/what type of person we are.
It's simply HISTORY. As in done&dusted.
If you prefer to linger over the IDEA of how many men your girl has been with, rather than concentrate on the FACT that she chose you in the end, because you were the BEST out of all...well...
Honestly,I'm a bit shocked that such antiquated views STILL exist.
Grrr,
The Nonny
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (15 February 2015):
Cindycares, it's different because in general, men have a harder time getting laid. The ones who brag about sowing wild oats are probably like, 10% in society while the rest gets bitter about why it's not so easy for them. While women of average looks and body could get laid almost any time. So those men feel if it's hard for them to find sex, it should be equally hard for women, to be fair. Women are slut shamed for the reason so that men who are not studs can get pure women who had not been degraded by players.
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reader, CindyCares +, writes (15 February 2015):
I don't know about all women, - I think most don't regret their sexual past and I definitely know I don't regret mine.
Everything has an age and stage, maybe if the perfect guy had shown up before... it would not have been perfect for the kind of women they were THEN, and the kind of wants and needs they had THEN. Maybe Mr. Right feels so right just because he showed up at the right time when the woman was finally ready to appreciate him and to want what he had to offer- but not before.
Anyway , regretting is an exercise in futility- what's the point ? It's not as if you can go back in time and change what has already happened , or make the past un-happen.
Plus, why should it be so different for women ? I mean, do men usually regret their sexual past, and do they regret not having waited for " the right one " to lose their virginity ? Do they regret having had sexual experiences before meeting Miss Right ? Even in case said experiences happened with losers, tramps etc. ? I don't think so- I think most are happy that they got the chance to saw their wild oats, and to learn by trial and error what kind of woman feels right for them. Men and women are all human beings , why do you presume that they have so widely different feelings , thoughts and appetites ?
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 February 2015): Women have every right to have all the sex they want, and have no obligation to regret anything.
And men have no obligation to consider women with promiscuous histories for serious partners. Ever.
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (15 February 2015):
 Oh Amen YouWish!
It's the AGE old IDEAL (actually VERY VERY OLD ideal) that a WOMAN'S worth is tied to how LITTLE sex she's had. That she is somehow more "pure", "better" the less partners, but men!! no the more partners the better.
UNLESS your wife have CRITICAL STD's that can affect you health and HERS - her PAST sexual life, sexual experiences is NOT your business.
I know why she lied. I know why she feels "regret". Because MEN, like her OWN husband makes her feel she should be ASHAMED for having had curiosity, having explored HER sexuality. And you now wonder if she HAD told you back then you could have found someone "better" - more "pure"....
More "pure" doesn't mean better partner, better wife, better mother, better friend. Would a man (or woman) rather have THAT over someone who has had more sex then they are willing to divulge?
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reader, YouWish +, writes (15 February 2015):
Why, do men regret their sexual past??
What is there to regret?? If our past was different, we wouldn't be who we are now. A sexual past isn't the same as "Do you regret stealing" or "Do you regret lying on your work resume" or "Do you regret those years you spent as a drug dealer" or "Do you regret getting blackout drunk, stripping naked in a nightclub and urinating on the DJ"?
There's nothing wrong with a sexual past! No matter what someone's past is, the first time with a new person is THE FIRST TIME because each time is different!
Why does a sexual past diminish a woman but makes a guy a "stud"? Sure, in hindsight, upon seeing that maybe a guy that we dated turned out to be a lying cheating douchebag does make the best of us regret ever knowing that that man existed. But regretting a sexual past?? Why??
OP, why would her past sexual activity make you change your decisions?? If you'd have known she was more sexually active in the past, you wouldn't have dated her?? Well, did she cheat on you?? Did she fail to disclose an STI?? Is she a good wife and/or mother??
Her past should be irrelevant now to you, and what you're suffering is retroactive jealousy. It's really misogynistic to obsess over the fact that because she had sex with other guys before you makes her less than you thought she was. She's a PERSON, and she doesn't have to regret her past any more than you have to.
It's actually funny when a guy hits mid-life crisis and starts regretting not having MORE casual sex when they were younger while at the same time wishing their wives had LESS.
I don't coddle retroactive jealousy sufferers because that attitude has caused more wrongful shaming of women than anything else I've seen on here and other sites that have dealt with it. I will never forget the husband that came on finding out that she had had oral sex with someone he knew in college years before they met and he constantly called her a "d*ck-sucking whore" and kept grilling her for details on something she could barely remember 20 years prior. It ended up breaking up their marriage and he turned into a semi-stalker, constantly harassing her while she was taking care of their children as a single mom, yet shaming her at every turn.
So when you ask about women regretting their sexual past in the context your follow-up post clarifies, it pisses me off. There is nothing to regret. Regret should be saved for cheating and hurting those you love, not healthy sexual exploration.
You may say "Well, she shouldn't have lied to me". That may be true, but YOU shouldn't have entrapped her by hounding her for details, and I KNOW by your post on here that this is what you did. No one's entitled to hear blow-by-blow of all past sexual encounters of every past relationship. What were you going to do, make a "Slut timeline" on an Excel Spreadsheet and label it BASE 1 to BASE 4 in the order of every physical contact in order to psychoanalyze it? You don't own her sexuality before she met you.
You really need to ask yourself if it matters to be with her now? There's a guy talking about wanting to cheat on his wife because he had assumed she was more innocent than she was, even though he knew she was not a virgin when they met. Uhh...WHAT?! So, because he's pissed at what she did before they met, he's going to spit on the marriage and humiliate her by cheating. You've gotta be kidding me.
I hate retroactive jealousy almost as much as I hate cheating. I don't care if there's OCD involved or any other type of mental illness. When you emotionally bludgeon someone you love because of it, you need to be accountable.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (15 February 2015):
Not at all.
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (15 February 2015):
I've had my share of losers in the past but they did not affect my marriage. So sexual past has never been my issue. My husband does not ask about it. None of my past boyfriends made it an issue either. I don't think about ex lovers, don't make comparisons and I have a good healthy sex life.
I do read a lot about retroactive jealousy. The reason why men dig up the past is usually is because there is dissatisfaction in the sexual department such as lack of interest or low frequency. So they want to find out what the women did before for consistency. What kind of men she liked, etc.
If women have to regret their past, it's either a bad experience that made them afraid to love again, or telling you the truth made you disrespect her lying.
In your question it sounds like a woman's sexual past automatically messes up a good relationship with a good man. It doesn't have to be the case. I think the problem is either she is not attracted to you and married you because she thought men are either players or secure partners and she can't have both passion and security. Or, she has issues with sex, has sex for wrong reasons. The ability to make love has to do with the person's views on intimacy which is based on personality and upbringing. Being able to have casual sex does not mean the same person can't also make good love with a husband in the future. You are talking about a particular woman, not one with or without a past. Also her not being interested in sex may or may not be related to having a past. Even virgins can become disinterested in sex with husband later. The only difference is that you can't find anything to blame or to get angry about.
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reader, like I see it +, writes (15 February 2015):
 Nope! It's not like you guys are "waiting" for us, either, and all this practice sex that MEN get away with having before marriage has to take place with someone.
The LYING you are absolutely right to be mad about if you asked her directly and got an untrue response - and it sounds like you did. In short, the lying is a much bigger deal (or should be, anyway) than the actual sex. She is still the same person you married - her past has been the same all along and it isn't going to morph her suddenly into a bad wife or a bad mother now that you've become aware of it - but the LYING means you now have to wonder about whether you can trust her word in other matters. I feel for you, as it's not a good spot to be in. As you try to move forward from this it's addressing the lies (not the past acts with past partners that, disclosed or not, took place before she met you) that need to be the focus. If marital counseling is an option for you, I would strongly suggest it - getting past trust issues is no small task.
To return to your broader question - speaking for myself, I might look back now and wonder what I saw in some of my past partners, but at the time (right or wrong) they were exactly the people I wanted to be with and none of the sex we had was something I wasn't into at the time it was happening.
And I will echo those who have noted that kissing a few frogs makes it easier to appreciate a prince when you find one.
I hope this helps. Good luck and best wishes.
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reader, xgisellex +, writes (14 February 2015):
It's not that I necessarily 'regret" my past relationships, but that I regret the fact that I should've actually known what is was doing, I'd rather have known exactly what I was getting myself into, and what affects it has years later.
I have a example. I went with this one guy six years ago, and even when I moved schools three years ago, I ended up meeting a girl who knew that guy I went out with, and his friends, my ex-squad. She constantly reminds me of my past relationship with the guy, even though I was young and stupid (pretty much still am though xD ) , and I think that if I were to "regret" the situation, I'd say I regret doing it because it was pointless. Now, now that I know about it all, I don't do things that would risk things, knowing that in a few years or so, I could be looking back and having all of the same thoughts again.
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reader, Xearo  +, writes (14 February 2015):
Both men and women regrets things in their past but likewise, many don't as well.
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 February 2015): At times I have. But it was not because when Id met a great guy I'd wished he was my first or anything like that. It was more like, looking back, even as a single woman, and thinking, "Jesus! Wtf was I thinking to date that guy." Or waking up after a drunken night and rolling over to realize the guy with the hook nose you went out to dinner with the night before ended up in your bed. And you try to quietly sneak out of your bed, looking for a painless escape, only to realize there's no way out. Cause he is at your house. So then you have to make up some fake plans you have to be at, like right away, in like ten minutes, and you don't have to time to chat. Then you close the door behind him while he is in mid sentence, saying, "Call m..." door slams shut. As for being in love, it doesn't inspire me to want to have done things differently. My boyfriend has a past as do I. Our past experiences are what made us who we are today. It shaped our personalities, our strengths, our weaknesses, so that when we did meet, we were able to hit it off as we did.
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reader, Honeypie + ♥, writes (14 February 2015):
I don't see the point in regret.
I waited til I was 19 and met someone I was head over heels for and who felt the same way. So I don't "regret" him. We were together from 4 1/2 years and I'd say 4 of those years were pretty outstanding. The last 6 not so much. But still I have only find memories of him and my time with him.
BF #2 was sweet, funny and kind, but intellectually not my equal.
BF #3 was a douche-canoe and IF I could change anything it would be to obliterate my memories of him - or just him..
But again, I don't waste time with regrets. I don't think I would have met my hubby if it wasn't for all 3 of my previous partners.
I DO have many female friends who regret their first, because they felt pressured to having sex.
I am OK with having had previous partners, I think hubby and I started out pretty uneven - him with MANY MANY MANY sexual partners and me with 3. But we fit well together and the past? It's the past, you can't change it, regrets doesn't help, it only makes you feel like crap, so WHY bother with regrets?
Had I met my husband when we were 19... he would have been a fling, I think, not my husband. He was a very immature selfish horn-dog. (that is according to him)
What is the point in regretting your experiences?
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 February 2015): I am the original poster of this question. She did actually lie to me. The period of time when she was most sexually active she told me that she wasn't seeing anybody or dating anybody. These were not assumption. I only found out later in our marriage. It would've been nice for her to be honest upfront when we were dating so that I would have been able to make substantive choices about a future then.
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 February 2015): Do you regret sleeping with any women (including one night stands) that you did not end up marrying?No? Yeah,I thought so!!!So please do tell-why exactly should I "regret" my sexual past?In the words of Edith Piaf: "Non,je ne regrette rien! Non,rien de rien!"Translation for non-francophiles: I don't regret a thing!Btw, best sex for me = men with a LOT of experience (who have tried lost of different things with many different women and know that what pleased the last one might not please you).Not exactly relationship material (at least not at that stage of their lives),but everyone has some wild oats to sow...And by the way how do you know they are "losers"? I mean,it might not have worked out between us but that certainly doesn't mean that I'll denigrate another human being to "being a loser" for not conforming to my expectations/hopes!Even if they were-how do you think that I'd be able to appreciate a good thing if I don't have a bad thing to compare it to? As to HIS sexual past-I don't give a damn either+never ask. The past is the past. We live in the present.Oh and ,btw : Practice makes perfect!:)))
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 February 2015): Yes, I do regret some of the guys I've been with, but I guess if I met the man of my dreams without dating the losers first then I probably wouldn't appreciate this man as much as I should :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 February 2015):
I don't think anyone should regret their past experiences as whether positive or negative they make us who we are . So that when the right partner is there for us, we can appreciate them and them us as without life experience we wouldn't be who we are.
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reader, Midnight Shadow  +, writes (14 February 2015):
 There are times when women do regret their sexual pasts, but they wouldn't be who they are today (or meeting the person who's perfect for them) without going through their experiences.
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